[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Character Dependant Stage Counterpicks and Bans
This will be a list of counterpicks based on characters.
It will be divided into 3 sections:
Stage Strikes :
Counterpicks
Bans
Stages will be
Neutrals:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshis Island
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 1
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Castle Siege
Counterpicks:
Frigate Orpheon
Brinstar
Rainbow Cruise
Pictochat
Green Greens
Norfair
Pokemon Stadium 2
I will first suggest all 3 sections. Then people will agree/disagree with reasoning, which will be added after the character is done.
HAJIME!
Importance of stage striking/Counterpicking/Bans will be in order from left to right.
IMPORTANT!!!!
Once the MLG stage list is announced, I will be changing everything to that. That means that we will basically start over on all the stages, adding more neutrals (if need be) and CPs. This will make it better for MLG purposes since its an amazingly huge
*****
COMPLETE:
Bowser:
Stage Strikes: Battlefield, Halberd, Yoshis, Lylat, Delfino Smashville, Frigate, FD
Battlefield is Bowser's 2nd best level overall, so it would be natural to strike it first. Yoshis is the median because it doesn't mess over bowser but it has nothing good for bowser. Lylat can mess up Bowser's recovery and the platforms are awkward for him. Smasvhille and FD are the best for us by far.
Counterpicks: FD, SV, Frigate
FD and SV are flat which is great for CGs. Also, it is very easy to edgeguard bowser on those levels. Frigate is a good overall pikachu stage and it doesn't give bowser any advantages and it is easy to edgeguard with thunder on the right side of the first transformation.
Bans: Brinstar
Overall Pikachu's worst level and bowser's strength makes this level a fear to play on. Ban it straight away.
Expect Bowser's CP, assuming brinstar is banned, will be BF. Expect it
Captain Falcon:
Stage Strikes: Battlefield, Lylat, Yoshis, Delfino, Halberd, Pokemon Stadium 1, Smashville, FD
Platforms can help Falcon's pressure game on both BF and lylat. Yoshis won't mess up anything of yours to mess up and the MU is stupidly in your favor so don't worry. Even though Halberd is amazing for us, watch out for early kills. PS1 is long, so its good for you.
Counterpicks: FD , Smashville, Halberd
Halberd has long places to CG and a low ceiling to help with killing. FD and smashville for CG and nothing to interrupt camping/combo strings and falcon is basically a sitting duck.
Bans: Stage you are most uncomfortable on as a player
Diddy Kong:
Stage Strikes: FD, Battlefield, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, Smashville, Lylat, Delfino, Halberd, Yoshi's Island
FD is diddy's best level, so you will strike that. BF's platforms are weird and annoying in this matchup for us. Others aren't strike-worthy, YI is the best neutral for us. Halberd is good for us in the MU, it is one of our CPs.
Counterpicks: Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Halberd, Yoshi's Island
RC is Diddy's worst level (They will probably ban it knowing that Brinstar is a bad level for us too) Frigate messes with diddy because of the right side of the first transformation and the little pit in the 2nd transformation. Also, the platform there messes up Banana shenanigans. Halberd is good because it makes killing easier for pikachu while not really helping Diddy kong. Yoshi's is good because the platform messes with Diddy's banana game.
Bans: FD
Diddy's best level.
Donkey Kong:
Stage Strikes: YI, BF, Halberd, Lylat, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, Delfino, SV, FD
Yoshi's island and Battlefield aren't just 2 of DKs best neutrals, but they are 2 of his best stages. Yoshis has a trick where DK can up-b from the ledge and be invulnerable the entire time. BF is just good for him because of the platforms. SV and FD are good for us because of CGs, so the match will probably go to lylat.
Counterpicks: FD, SV, Castle Siege, Delfino
FD and SV are explained before. Delfino and Castle Siege are both great pikachu levels, and they both have walkoffs. DK can't really stall in the air to avoid this, but be careful not to get too aggressive or he can stutter step a Forward Smash and send you reeling. Be careful, but you should win on these levels.
Bans: Brinstar or Green Greens
Great level for DK, pretty bad level for us. Just not fun overall...Green Greens has small boundaries so you will explode easily
Falco:
Stage Strikes: BF, Castle Siege, YI, Halberd, Lylat, SV, Delfino, FD
BF is probably Falco's best stage against us (unless Japes is in the set) so strike that first. YI isn't flat, so it can mess with CGs. Lylat messes with Falco's recovery, but the tilting can mess up our CG. SV and FD are our best bet.
Counterpicks: Frigate, Rainbow Cruise, FD
Frigate is horrible for falco. Recovery is stupid here and it can lead to CGs. Falco's up-b isn't good on RC, so if his double jump doesn't make it we can punish really easily. FD has no problems towards whatever we want to do for CG purposes. MMMMM delicious.
Bans: BF (or japes if it is legal)
BF hinders with our CG the most and it is difficult to get to falco because he has platforms to run away on. It can be irritating, but you should never be losing this MU in the first place. (For japes, CG to spike to klap-trap is a combo lol. Ban that stage straight off if it is legal.)
Fox:
Stage Strikes:Halberd, BF, YI, Delfino, Lylat, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, SV, FD
Levels with more platforms help fox. Levels with less platforms help us. The less the platforms get in our way, the better we do. Because of this, SV and FD are our best choices. They will probably strike it, so lylat, which is a bad level for fox because of weird recovery glitches, will probably be the neutral. Also, the tilting is so slow and fox falls so fast that it shouldn't interrupt our CGs.
Counterpicks: FD, SV, Lylat
Described above. Assuming the first match is played on Lylat (it should be) and Fox bans FD, you should have SV as a counterpick. Count on it.
Bans: Halberd or Green Greens
Low ceiling = Happy fox. Ban one of them.
Game & Watch
Stage Strikes: BF, Delfino, YI, Lylat, Castle Siege, Halberd, SV, PS1, FD
BF is amazing for G&W pressuring with all the platforms. They also give him a plethora of approaching options while limiting ours. Delfino has very large portions and portions with ver small ceilings. He can camp some of the transformations very well, have a lot of room to bucket-brake, and room to get really early kills coupled with his already ******** killing power. YI's platform disrupts our approaching game so we can only approach him from the ground, but with bair and nair on his side we shouldn't really be doing that. Those are the only bad ones, but SV, Halberd, PS1, and FD are definitely the best. Halberd is mediocre imo since the low ceiling benefits G&W, but it also gives him way less room to bucket-brake. SV, PS1, and FD are all relatively flat. We can take more advantage of the PS1 transformations than G&W can, so it is a good neutral against him.
Counterpicks: FD, PS1, SV, Halberd
Flat = good for pikachu. The less options that are limited with platforms the better. PS1 the platforms are too high to disrupt us, and the lip can catch G&Ws up-b if they don't do it perfectly. Halberd is explained in neutral section.
Bans: Brinstar, RC, Frigate, or Green Greens
Brinstar and RC are two of G&W's best stages. He is really good there. Green Greens allows him to wall infinite, and frigate is just a good level for him. We are screwed when it comes to his CP. Hope you win the first match!~
Ganondorf:
Stage Strikes: BF, Delfino, Halberd, Lylat, YI, PS1, Castle Siege, SV, FD
BF is the only good neutral for Ganon. Delfino and Halberd could cause water spikes/low ceiling mess ups. The simpler the level the better for us.
Counterpicks: FD, SV, Castle Siege
The simpler the level the better. We will win on any counterpick assuming you know how to chaingrab...
Bans: Brinstar, Battlefield, Norfair
Brinstar, along with being a bad level for us, really helps ganon. Ban it. Other than that, you shouldn't have any problems.
Ice Climbers:
Stage Strikes: FD, BF, Halberd, SV, Lylat, Halberd, Yoshis Island, Castle Siege, PS1, Delfino
Flat + non-moving = god for IC. FD is basically a death-wish when fighting IC, so strike/ban that stage right away. Youre more preferable neutrals are ones that move and are large, so PS1, Delfino, and Castle Siege will be your best bet. PS1 also has added amazing because every time the stage transforms it will mess up CGs. Halberd is good for both characters, and while the stage is flying around you can shark under the level. Once it gets to the big part, camp to your hearts content. However, camp smartly. A few ice blocks hitting you will let IC get really really close to you, which is bad for Pikachu.
Counterpicks: Rainbow Cruise, Norfair
Rainbow Cruise's nature of constantly moving is amazing against IC. They can't really do anything. They will most likely ban it. Another great level is norfair. With 5 platforms to camp on and lava sprays/walls/waves/rising all disrupts CGs. IC basically suck on this level.
Bans: FD, BF, SV
Yeah, FD is their best level, so ban that. However, if you have a false bravado on that level, ban SV or BF instead. BF is good to camp because of the platforms, but it can set you up for Uair traps, which can be pretty bad if you are trying to maintain a lead.
Ike:
Stage Strikes: BF, YI, PS1, Halberd, Lylat, Delfino, CS, SV, FD
BF and YI are the worst. Ike + platforms + kinda small = amazing. The platform on YI makes it impossible for pikachu to approach, so once you lose the lead you will have a really hard time getting it back. PS1 has walls and oddly placed platforms, which help Ike WAY more than pikachu. Halberd is tiny and the same issue with the platform, so Ike is good there. Delfino and CS have walk-offs, which is amazing for pikachu. Obviously, the plainer a stage is, the better it is for pikachu, so FD and SV are your best choices. Lylat is neither good nor bad for either character, so expect to go there the first match.
Counterpicks: FD, SV, Rainbow Cruise
Same as before, plainer stages = better against Ike.
Bans: BF, Brinstar, YI
BF is Ike's best level. Even if Brinstar is our worst, we can do more to Ike on Brinstar than BF. He just messes us up there X.X
Jigglypuff:
Stage Strikes: FD, SV, Lylat, BF, Delfino, Castle Siege, Yoshi's, PS1, Halberd
Counterpicks: PS1, Frigate
Bans: Brinstar, Norfair, PS2
King Dedede:
Stage Strikes: BF, Lylat, Halberd, YI, Delfino, PS1, SV, Castle Siege, FD
Flatter is better (For stages, not for women) so you will want FD, Castle Siege, SV, and PS1 as your ideals. BF is D3's best stage in this mu because of the platforms. Lylat is also disruptive with the platform placement. Halberd can let D3 shark you with uair near the ledge and the low ceiling benefits D3 more than pika. YI is flat-ish but it is weird. Delfino has walk-offs, walls, and flat areas, all of which are good for pika.
Counterpicks: Castle Siege, FD, SV
Since flatter/walk-offs are better, these stages are preferred. Common sense as to why.
Bans: BF
Brinstar, the normal ban for pikachu, is a horrible level for D3. It isn't worth how bad pikachu is because D3 is just as bad/worse on the level. BF is the only level you have to worry about.
CURRENT:
Kirby:
ESAM's suggestion
Stage Strikes:Delfino, Halberd, BF, Lylat, YI, PS1, Castle Siege, SV, FD
Counterpicks: SV, Castle Siege, Norfair?
Bans: Brinstar
IN QUEUE
Link:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Lucario:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Lucas:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Luigi:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Mario:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Marth:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Metaknight:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Ness:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Olimar:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Peach:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Pikachu:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Pit:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Pokemon Trainer:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
ROB:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Samus:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Sheik:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Snake:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Sonic:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Toon Link:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans
Wario:
Counterpicks
Stage Strikes
Bans
Wolf:
Counterpicks
Stage Strikes
Bans
Yoshi:
Counterpicks
Stage Strikes
Bans
Zelda:
Counterpicks
Stage Strikes
Bans
Zero Suit Samus:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans