COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[The Cape]

What is being defined as camping? From what I have seen its possible, but tricky to do in Brawl+

So many approach options, great defensive options that can even be used on the offense and alot of movement control allows for the player to approach extremely well. If you camp well and win, you deserve it I think.

 

[iSpiN]

Well, I don't think Pit's arrows need to be adjusted but he needs something.


Okay, I don't use Pit, but I know someone that 2nd's him and after playing Pit for a few matches today this is what I've come up with.

*Faster Fair/Bair/Dair- I mean, come on. Give the guy a sandwich.
*Grounded UpB- Make it jump faster and have a slightly longer duration.
*Fall/1st Jump- Make him fall "slighter faster" and make his first jump have less animations so he can follow up with an aerial.

I will disagree with anything that involves him standing still for now. Give him a solid or semi-solid approach.

 

[The Cape]

He's still annoying as balls. Really good, really frustrating.

Any advice on playing an arrow-spamming camping Pit / grenade whoring Snake? I find myself getting tired of chasing them around and instead I just spam back from the other side of the stage. Reminds me of vBrawl.

Sheild rush to get close. Bait a move or movement. Counter attack.

Repeat process.

Both characters are really easy to gimp so you should be able to get them off the stage and edgeguard them quite well.

Who are you playing against them Shell?

 

[kupo15]

Well, I don't think Pit's arrows need to be adjusted but he needs something.


Okay, I don't use Pit, but I know someone that 2nd's him and after playing Pit for a few matches today this is what I've come up with.

*Faster Fair/Bair/Dair- I mean, come on. Give the guy a sandwich.
*Grounded UpB- Make it jump faster and have a slightly longer duration.
*Fall/1st Jump- Make him fall "slighter faster" and make his first jump have less animations so he can follow up with an aerial.

I will disagree with anything that involves him standing still for now. Give him a solid or semi-solid approach.

Faster fair bair?

Seriously, pit is pretty good. He just needs the tumble codes to be complete so his WoP doesn't suck *** >_<

 

[CyberGlitch]

A general accepted rule we have in the WBR is that for any character balances that we intend to go forward with, we should place our focus on only the characters we assume to be at the bottom half of the echelon, or any character not currently presumed to be in a high tier status. This ensures we focus on the characters currently in need of tweaks, while preventing otherwise uneducated or accidental tier modifications to those who are currently perfectly fine. This of course has come in to exception with two characters; Snake and Meta Knight.

We have no intention of modifying any character at high tier or higher unless they meet one of the following criteria:

1) They are proven to be over powered in comparison to the majority of the cast.

2) They distort specific character match ups.


This is not to say we will have no intention of modifying other characters higher on the tier list later on possibly, but for now it isn't in our best interest where maintaining balance is concerned.


That said, G&W is fine as it is right now. Unless you were to argue G&W was not at least high tier, he likely wouldn't change at all.

I understand this policy. I even attempt to apply this policy with my own suggestions. This particular issue with G&W's Fair is an exception. It isn't asking the back room to add a buff to G&W, it's simply asking that a nerf be reduced for him that was only put in place because all we had to nerf his key was a global aerial lag modifier at the time. If the codes we have now were available then, efforts would have been focused on the key as a move any you would be arguing to "retain his Fair because it doesn't need changing. " Is is fair to keep this change to his Fair that should have been temporary because we only had primitive codes at the time?

Consider the past global lag increase a patch for G&W. Now that we have the proper tools we can properly fix him.

 

[The_Guide]

I don't get the code for discovering hitbox data. Almas was saying that we'd find our information below 805A9800, but its not in any of the three codes he posted. Does it appear after you collect the data? Does it appear in the code that modifies the hitbox data? I can't figure this out through trial and error, as I don't have access to my Wii for the moment. When I get it back, I'd like to start using the codes right off the bat.

If anyone could help a noob, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[The Cape]

Cyber, I tried out GW global at 50% ALR and his dair at 100%

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggPB2x1wDTI

 

[iSpiN]

Faster fair bair?

Seriously, pit is pretty good. He just needs the tumble codes to be complete so his WoP doesn't suck *** >_<

Really? I still don't see how he is any better. We need to play Kupo so I can have a better understanding of Pit+.

 

[Rkey]

Dammit, explain what ALR and WoP means! >.< And this is where you guys post as hell, now I know...

And moreover, I still vote for buffing the wind from ness' down-b, and what I have seen of pit: yes he's pretty good.

Telling again: please don't overbuff

 

[The Cape]

ALR = Aerial Lag Reduction
WoP = Wall of pain

 

[Rkey]

ALR = Aerial Lag Reduction
WoP = Wall of pain

Awesome, now my uttl (understanding the text lag) will be greatly reduced ^_^

 

[abcool]

Yo cape i'm pretty bored and wanna try this for fun, can you help me with trying to speed up foxes shine? do i use the animation Id or action id and even if i do, what do i do to speed up the ending frames?

 

[The Cape]

I actually dont know how to go about doing it. The info should all be in the first post

 

[abcool]

I actually dont know how to go about doing it. The info should all be in the first post

I used the info in the first post, but i saw no results, idk if i should use the action id or the animation id, Do you know how many frames the shine is atleast?

 

[iSpiN]

Ok, I don't doubt Pit's abilities now, haha.

 

[kupo15]

I used the info in the first post, but i saw no results, idk if i should use the action id or the animation id, Do you know how many frames the shine is atleast?

Character ID first which is fox (06 I think?)
Frame you want to speed up (after the hitbox comes out
Move (down special in the action ID) 115 d special

Move speed in hex (use hex converter)

All the links are in the OP

 

[Revven]

So kupo, the handicap = buffering was fixed with the whole crouching issuers?

 

[kupo15]

So kupo, the handicap = buffering was fixed with the whole crouching issuers?

was it?

 

[Revven]

was it?

Oh wait nvm, I read your OP wrong, thought it said the code was fixed for that but it's something you want fixed for it haha.

 

[Almas]

The numbers are in Hex Float, not Hex. There is a very significant difference.

 

[kupo15]

The numbers are in Hex Float, not Hex. There is a very significant difference.

Whoops. I assume that Hex would be what the momentum code uses? 10=16?

 

[CyberGlitch]

Cyber, I tried out GW global at 50% ALR and his dair at 100%

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggPB2x1wDTI

That seems to work quite well. His key can be punished now and the forward air doesn't have terrible lag. I appreciate the video. It clearly shows how the move can still be punished, it doesn't recover instantly. Thanks!


As for powershielding eliminating Falco's advantage he'd gain from DI...this doesn't help characters who are in the air. I suppose you'd just have to modify your playstyle to avoid going in the air, maybe not. If the code is made we can see if it's overpowered or not.


(Please excuse how incoherent some of the sentences in my last message were. It was typed in a hurry and I was quite tired).

 

[CountKaiser]

Hey Cyber, could you go and make a Brawl+ thread for G&W on the G&W forums? I'd go myself, but you seem to know more about the character.

 

[CyberGlitch]

I believe part of board policy is that we don't make Brawl+ topic on other character boards. Could someone confirm this for me?

 

[CountKaiser]

It is?

Is this even being enforced? I've seen some people post in brawl+ character threads recently, and I thought they were locked.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I believe part of board policy is that we don't make Brawl+ topic on other character boards. Could someone confirm this for me?

Don't know if it's policy, but there is already a character balance thread in the Workshop that is cycling through the characters. It'd be kinda rude and spammy to have a B+ thread in every character forum. Of course, if B+ takes off like we want it too, that will probably happen anyway, but now's not the time.

 

[Deleted member]

I believe part of board policy is that we don't make Brawl+ topic on other character boards. Could someone confirm this for me?

- For the moment, please hold off on discussing Brawl+ on character specific boards. A decision is currently being made as to whether these threads should exist on character boards, or on another board specifically for this purpose.

But go right ahead, not like anyone's followed that rule, every char specific board has a B+ thread.

 

[Almas]

Right now, I'm not going to try and stop you from posting threads in the character boards, but you're doing it at the hands of the board's moderator. I'm not going to try and defend your case if the thread closes, and certainly not if it decays into a horrid flamefest.

I have been informed that a ruling will be made about this matter very shortly, though, so you may want to make decisions based on that. Either way, we'll end up having a way to discuss B+ characters.

 

[Revven]

I'd like to suggest two things we ought to get done after a bunch of the current codes are fixed to being perfected (like teching, momentum for some chars specials, and handicap = buffering to work more like the one liner).

1) Clashes should have a louder SFX. I don't know about you guys, but, in Melee whenever a clash would happen the sound ALWAYS helped me react better than visually. One thing that bothered me on day one of Brawl's release was that the clashes' SFX wasn't even there. HOWEVER, after listening closely, THERE IS an SFX but it's just so low, nobody can hear it. Is there any way we can either a) turn up the volume on the SFX or b) change the SFX entirely to one that suits it and is loud enough to react well enough to.

Recently and almost every time I play this game and vBrawl, clashing always seems to put both players in an awkward position. Here's an example: I'm DK, doing my Up B and Sonic does his Down B spin charge, he charges it fully lets go at my Up B and they clash. I immediately shield assuming him to attack right away (as he is expecting to hit A to jump into an aerial to hit me) when they clash, Sonic jabs because he is hitting A and I'm shielding. Normally, if a clash were to occur, you would be able to react better with hearing than by seeing. And in almost every clash I've been in, neither opponent can react the way they want to.

My point is, can we somehow fix this nuance? It's not something that takes priority over say, port priority, but is should be looked into at the very least.

2) Damage stale. I KNOW it's on the list but it has real low priority for something that could change the game SO much. Why is this? Honestly, it should take priority over everything else and be the next thing we try to implement after we've gotten the codes we have now perfected. Damage stale changes camping, changes spamming, and changes basically everything that is kind of a problem right now for some players. It also nerfs Utilt spam quite considerably and I'm honestly surprised we haven't had this done yet... Even though we're not sure how possible it is, it SHOULD at least be given a try.

Those are the two things I wanted to post about. That's all I have to say atm.

 

[kupo15]

I want to add something to that list. Add a sfx to teching

 

[Rikana]

I want to add something to that list. Add a sfx to teching

I have no problem with the clash SFX being louder because I agree with Falco400. I have the same problem as Falco400. Tech chasing has always been the same regardless of sound so why does it need an SFX? I'm just curious because you haven't elaborated yet.

 

[GPDP]

I love how now that we're essentially unencumbered by line space, we're delving into all sorts of superfluous things, like sound effects.

Not that that's a bad thing, of course. Brawl+ needs more to truly differentiate it from vBrawl, even at the cosmetic level. And if we have the lines, why the hell not?

 

[kupo15]

I have no problem with the clash SFX being louder because I agree with Falco400. I have the same problem as Falco400. Tech chasing has always been the same regardless of sound so why does it need an SFX? I'm just curious because you haven't elaborated yet.

I love having sound effects for things as long as they make sense (see: dash dances and ganons crouch=bad) . The *click* from melee is as amazing as the clank from the sword clank. I don't know, its adds a nice touch that I miss

 

[abcool]

How many frames does the shine have? Which frame is after the hitbox comes out?

 

[CountKaiser]

Ya know what sound effect I miss?

The loud screams of pain that came from getting hit hard. It made the game feel....awesome. I don't know how to put it, but I really miss that.

@abcool:From what I can tell, the hitbox is out of frame 3, and it has 17 frames of ending lag.

 

[leafgreen386]

abcool: Fox's shine is invincible frames 1-3. It hits frame 3. Dunno how long the lag is, though.

 

[Swordplay]

I played Xsyven today. Good stuff.
Some incredible matches combo's and lolz all around.
He seemed to not Like ASL (the ledges) but it produced some of the most hilarious moments in the game.

Anyway when we were talking it came out that he thought B+ was suppose to be Melee 2.0.

That just means we have to continue our campaign and help people understand what its really about!!!!


GREAT GAMES XSYVEN. HOPE YOU ENJOYED BRAWL+ and hope we can do it again soon.

 

[GHNeko]

What did he think about the characters?

 

[GameSystem]

Ya know what sound effect I miss?

The loud screams of pain that came from getting hit hard. It made the game feel....awesome. I don't know how to put it, but I really miss that.

@abcool:From what I can tell, the hitbox is out of frame 3, and it has 17 frames of ending lag.

LOL I instantly thought of Roy honking when you said that.

 

[kupo15]

Ya know what sound effect I miss?

The loud screams of pain that came from getting hit hard. It made the game feel....awesome. I don't know how to put it, but I really miss that.

@abcool:From what I can tell, the hitbox is out of frame 3, and it has 17 frames of ending lag.

I was thinking about this also