Counterpicking Made Easy

[Xisin]

So I just beat a MK on RC today. I counterpicked him there. In Grand Finals

Can I have a cookie Meno?

EDIT:
@AA
It's entirely player dependant. I can't play on Lylat or Halberd to save my life... those are argued Snake's best stages by many.... however I can do just fine on Japes and RC.... -_-

How would snake do versus say a king dedede at RC specifically on the rising parts, and despite the low ceiling at the part where there is no ledges, there are walkoffs to be cg'd off of. Not to mention dedede's up tilt is nothing to scoff at.

Marth worst stages by far : Japes, frigate, rainbow cruise

 

[SuSa]

How would snake do versus say a king dedede at RC specifically on the rising parts, and despite the low ceiling at the part where there is no ledges, there are walkoffs to be cg'd off of. Not to mention dedede's up tilt is nothing to scoff at.

Marth worst stages by far : Japes, frigate, rainbow cruise

I don't know, I take Dedede's to Battlefield or Smashville to camp the platforms.

Also there are enough platforms on RC to avoid walkoff/wall CG's

I'll take a D3 there to find out how it goes.

 

[Psymon]

BUMP - This thread is amazing.

 

[Psymon]

Not liking this much =( Take Brawl as it is, ban anything like D3's infinite CG, avoid getting hit and tech out of situations where you may be jab-locked etc.

 

[zeldspazz]

I would switch out Halberd and Delfino with Norfair and Rainbow Cruise

Norfair: This place may help her sub-par recovery, but it really magnifies some huge weaknesses she has, the inability to deal with camping, and it doesnt allow for easy killing since the platformas allow the other players to recovery easily as well as the fact the blastzones are are fairly large. You are also in the air alot, since your hopping from platform to platform, and this is where she is least lethal.

Rainbow Cruise: This place keeps you in the air almost all the time, and that is a really really bad thing for Zelda. The ceiling at the very top is also very short, causing Zelda's light body to be killed extremely fast. Also, since there are no ledge to grab and platforms come and go, her recovery is very inflexible so she may miss the platform she is aiming for it.

Overall these 2 stages are far worse for Zelda then Halberd and Delfino are

I'd also suggest taking Smashville and puting it at the bottom of the list of good stages, and Battlefield at the top, since Battlefield is her best overall stage by far.

 

[Raziek]

Input on Marth: Battlefield and Delfino are solid, those two definitely stay. For a third, I'm very partial to Halberd and Norfair. The way the platforms are spaced means you can usually poke through to hit enemies without putting your hurtbox out.

Can't really think of a 3rd stage to put for Worst without it simply being personal distaste.

 

[lloDownedu74]

I'm sorry to say, but I completely disagree with Peach's best/worst counterpicks. I always cp rainbow cruise and win there, even against most MKs.
I always ban Japes now after a Falco laser spammed me to death, I don't really like Luigi's Mansion because a)it's kind of hard to kill with peach and b)you dont have too much aerial mobility besides floats, and I just think that Peach loses to a lot of people at Brinstar (like MK).

But I don't know, I guess that's just me

 

[TheTantalus]

^^one of the best melee/brawl peaches, listen to this man

 

[Depster]

But Meno, it's all wrong >_>

 

[deepseadiva]

I'm sorry to say, but I completely disagree with Peach's best/worst counterpicks. I always cp rainbow cruise and win there, even against most MKs.
I always ban Japes now after a Falco laser spammed me to death, I don't really like Luigi's Mansion because a)it's kind of hard to kill with peach and b)you dont have too much aerial mobility besides floats, and I just think that Peach loses to a lot of people at Brinstar (like MK).

But I don't know, I guess that's just me

It might just be you. CPs are a very personal subject.

For RC, it seems most Peaches think it's at least a little bad for her - even though you might excel there personally.

Japes is a very good Peach stage - just not against Falco. There will always be exceptions, but overall the stage highly favors her.

Your statements on Luigi's also have me a bit confused. The high ceiling favors her light weight, and the restricted airspace is surprisingly beneficial - Peach has her float.

Brinstar is also fantastic in a lot of match-ups, but again, there are exceptions.

But Meno, it's all wrong >_>

You know what else is wrong?

YOUR FACE

 

[lloDownedu74]

It might just be you. CPs are a very personal subject.

For RC, it seems most Peaches think it's at least a little bad for her - even though you might excel there personally.

Japes is a very good Peach stage - just not against Falco. There will always be exceptions, but overall the stage highly favors her.

Your statements on Luigi's also have me a bit confused. The high ceiling favors her light weight, and the restricted airspace is surprisingly beneficial - Peach has her float.

Brinstar is also fantastic in a lot of match-ups, but again, there are exceptions.



You know what else is wrong?

YOUR FACE

Ok. I just feel that, especially on the AiB ladder, RC takes care of most of the matchups I'm bad against, such as ICs, Diddy, Snake, etc.
I do understand why Peach is good at Japes, but now I always ban Japes because I once was took there by a non-Falco player who switched to Falco and destroyed me.
I've never really experimented with LM. I used to get beaten there as a noob, but now that I've gotten a LOT better, I guess I should try it out.
And I never liked Brinstar because people always kill me at the edges (like MK with his up+b)

Well, thanks for helping me out xD

 

[SuSa]

WiFi is a poor judgement for stage choices.

IC's are horrible on RC, same with Diddy.. well.. Diddy is decent, but it's still a bad stage for him

You can discuss Snake with me if you like, if you want to base choices off WiFi play my Snake on RC. I've yet to lose a set to anyone but a Zamus there. I counterpick people to RC in tournament, and I feel so comfortable with the stage I've had my doubles partner use it as our CP. Even though he questions me "But dude.. you are Snake" but he trusts me when I say "Yah... I know the stage, it's good trust me."

Needless to say, we won all but 1 RC match that day. We also lost a match we MAY have won had we picked RC instead of SV. (I said SV to agree with him, I had made every single CP choice that day. Figured it was his turn)

 

[Fwahflles.]

...how is Brinstar bad for marth?
and Pokemon stadium is easy win for marth also

 

[TheMike]

You can discuss Snake with me if you like, if you want to base choices off WiFi play my Snake on RC. I've yet to lose a set to anyone but a Zamus there. I counterpick people to RC in tournament, and I feel so comfortable with the stage I've had my doubles partner use it as our CP. Even though he questions me "But dude.. you are Snake" but he trusts me when I say "Yah... I know the stage, it's good trust me."

RC is a nice stage for Snake against Peach!

 

[SuSa]

It's a nice stage for everyone but Zamus IMO because I'm heavily biased.

First stock vs Zamus = epic win

Then getting JV 3'd because I couldn't touch the Zamus after 0-deathing her. Made me cry.

 

[DerkTheJerk]

why is one of the ice climbers best stages smashvill? when your opponent could just camp on the moving platform.

 

[JUDGE]

lol this is a good thread

 

[SuSa]

So I CP'd DSF's MK to RC as Snake.
I did better then I did on our neutral.
I still lost :/ but it was a very close game.
(lost 2-0 :/ but getting closer every time)

I also CP'd CPU(SoCal)'s DDD to RC. We went to "last hit wins" then I SD'd xD (lost 2-1)

I got infinited from 50% to 117%~ on the boat last stock as well. But that was 1 time out of the entire game. I also got walkoff CG'd first stock, but I was at like 150% anyways.

I've still got to say. It's a Snake stage. :3

EDIT:
Oh, and I CP Falco to Japes and such. Not a bad stage either.

In fact, almost every single Falco will tell you they'd never CP a Snake there. Same with higher level players (Hylian, Sethlon, and others)

Snake just doesn't die here, and it's EXTREMELY hard to get through his camping.

I stand by my "Snake has no bad stages" statement.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

But Snake still has "Not as good as others" stages. I don't think he's going to be as harsh to play on PS2 as on BF for example.

 

[SuSa]

It depends entirely on the matchup.

I wouldn't take Marth/MK to BF for example. I would take them to Ps2

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I was talking in general. Obviously it's all match-up dependent.

Like as Ike, I wouldn't CP Ness at Pirate Ship, too big of a gamble. Snake on the other hand. :D

 

[da K.I.D.]

I agree with susa's snake has no bad stages sentiment.


What I will say, is that the stage he does worst on, I think he does worse on than MK on FD (mks worst stage.)

he doesnt have "bad" stages but his worst stage is worse than MKs worst stage is for him

 

[SuSa]

Wait..what?

Every MK strikes FD against me... then I strike BF... so we play on SV. xD

The thing is, is it's not just a naturally "bad stage" for any reason. Snake handles himself on every stage, it just tends that his opponent.... does better on a certain stage. <_<

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I would think PS would be close to a "bad" stage for Snake. Big blast zones, he can't get out of the water quickly, his spike SUCKS, his recovery is spike bait, etc.

 

[SuSa]

His spike isn't that bad, especially if the opponent is in the water. The fact the ship has platforms, already means we can abuse them.

Big blast zones are a double-bladed sword. We live longer, we kill later. You don't want a Snake tanking a stock to 240% do ya?

I personally like the shape of the grenades, easily abused with grenades.

EDIT:
Also let me mention that the stage isn't legal in my area so I have limited experience on the stage.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ah. I've faced one Snake there. I lost, mainly because I suck at water spiking. I had three chances to spike him and messed up all three times. Let me tell you, Snake's spike was never in the picture. Never saw it once.

Of course, the Snake player rarely played at PS and got nailed by three canonballs. lol. Managed to survive all of them though. >_< On average he would like to about 170ish%, while I lived to about 150%. If I had the ability to water spike well, it would have been a good trade off.

Now the explosives on the platform, that DID come into play. Took off my last stock with Fthrow into land mine -> flying upwards -> c4 on panel. Nades to my aether also had a factor, but that does on any level really.

I feel as if PS is one of Snake's weaker stages, but I'm no Snake expert. *shrugs*

 

[SuSa]

A lot of people avoid fair. Ally goes for it, and so do I. Most Snake's who actually know the stage will go for the spike. (I go for it on Delfino <3 that is my only experience with water)

Cannonballs should only be hitting you if you are thrown into them. xD They are easy to see coming.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I know. It's not the best example of what Snake can do on that stage, but it's the only IRL example I have. Maybe play some friendlies there next tournament?

 

[stealthwarrior17]

Why isn't one of Ike's best stages battlefield? His smashs reach the platforms, curved edges help recovery, and the end zones are well placed allowing him to recover more. Not to mention the platforms lead to good punishing from Ike.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Olimar's best stage is Yoshi's Island (Melee) by far. Afterwards would definitely be Luigi's Mansion and Halberd. Norfair isn't necessarily "bad" for Olimar but there's many better CP stages for him.

 

[CR4SH]

what about distant planet?

 

[Llumys]

Best: Yoshi's Island (Pipes), Halberd, Luigi's Mansion
Worst: Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon

 

[basvhout]

I think FD is really good for marth... cause the map is so big you can easly create space. And Frigate is not worst for marth?

And I think the CPS/Starters/banned etc are different per country/state or whatever.

At alot of tournaments, norfair, junglejapes and some other are instand banned.

 

[TheMike]

I think FD is really good for marth... cause the map is so big you can easly create space. And Frigate is not worst for marth?

And I think the CPS/Starters/banned etc are different per country/state or whatever.

At alot of tournaments, norfair, junglejapes and some other are instand banned.

BF is better than FD for Marth IMO because the platforms help a lot Marth's Air Game. About Frigate, it depends on the match-up. Vs Zamus it's a nice idea.

And that's true. Here in Brazil, Delfino is Random, for example.

 

[Affinity]

Delfino is definitely one of Kirby's best stages.

 

[Palpi]

Frigate isn't that bad for Marth. =/

 

[M4ge]

Add Lylat for Link's worst stages.
Take off RC for his best.
Add FD for his best too.

 

[Captain L]

I find that the crazy land formations in PS1's transformations are great for Pikachu since he can send tjolts that jump around the stage. Also, the rock transformation has some great spots for thunder, and the windmill sends tjolts at people in seemingly random ways.



Plus if you want to be really gay there's the tree in the fire transformation where you can get wall jab locks.

Suffice to say, PS1 is my favourite CP when I'm pika.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Best: Yoshi's Island (Pipes), Halberd, Luigi's Mansion
Worst: Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon

That's exactly what i said two posts before you llumys

Also distant planet is good for olimar, crash, but not nearly as good as his other stages. Not many Olimars play on it, tbh, so there really hasn't been too much hype in the stage, but Pipes is definitely better for him by a long shot if it's legal. Most likely Mansion and Halberd a well.

 

[Vermy]

You should remove Rainbow Cruise from PT's worst stages. With the Baton Pass AT its becoming better and better to the point where we're opting to use it as a CP ourselves.

And Brinstar in Squirtle's best.