Counterpicking Made Easy

[da K.I.D.]

i think GGs is the ONE stage in the game that works against him

FD is just completely neutral and is thus worse for him than the other stages in the game

 

[deepseadiva]

Yoshi's Island Melee works about the same. It's barely legal, so it doesn't have a lot of testing, but I consider it on the same level as Green Greens.

Though GG is better.

 

[socandrewcer]

the new rule set came out
some counters such as corneria are now banned, so i think we should start changing some of these

 

[deepseadiva]

With the new stage list out, I've been meaning to remove all the newly banned stages. Let's take a look at the characters which benefited and which were harmed by the new list.

Corneria
• Donkey Kong, Fox, Game & Watch, Ike, Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Sonic, Toon Link
• Jigglypuff, Kirby, Lucario, Peach

Green Hill Zone
• -
• -

Mario Circuit
• -
• Ganondorf

Onett
• Olimar
• Peach

Skyworld
• -
• Donkey Kong, Marth, Peach

Nothing incredibly significant beyond Corneria, a few characters simply lost or gained a few obscure counterpicks. Corneria seems to be the most drastic change though - while the heavy hitters of the game mourn there loss, the lighter characters rejoice. Specifically Peach who lost all her potential counterpicks. Convenient that I main her, no?

Well, now that we're running a little low on a few charcacters, I wouldn't mind more input on what to stick in the empty slots.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Is Green Greens still allowed or no?

 

[deepseadiva]

Yep, it's still in counter-banned limbo.

 

[Psychoace]

lame... east coast hate green greens.

 

[vato_break]

Yoshi's island is ok for mario .There are better stages like Lylat cruise or Luigi's Mansion(jab lock). Mario generally does good on Fd,Bf,and Sv.

 

[MysticKenji]

I'm wondering why Norfair is so bad for ROB...

 

[Tektite]

^Yea. ROB ***** at Norfair. Go change it now.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I move that Final Destination be put on the list as one of sonics best stages.

I also move that Delfino Plaza beput on the list as one of Sonics worst stages

If you need an explanation why, let me know.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Also, Sonic is ****ing awesome on Brinstar. Delfino is indeed one of his worse stages. Also, Castle Siege is pretty useless for Sonic.

 

[da K.I.D.]

that avatar is winsauce

 

[Jim Morrison]

Reported for spam.

Also, yes it is.







message in a bottle: jokes

 

[The Milk Monster]

Wow Gf2tw, your avatar is pretty amazing.
Is Sonic really good on Brinstar?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yea, there's a writeup on Brinstar here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191030

 

[kingcobra9]

green greens is great for olimar cuz he can camp well but it is small enough they can't run away and the blocks help get time for pickmin pluck. a purple to the bomb is deadly. platforms make aeirials and smashes easy

 

[<π]

sheik does fine on japes.You can really CP sheik IMO.

Wolf does fine on lylat.

 

[Kamikaze*]

lame... east coast hate green greens.

Because green greens is ********.

 

[Kamikaze*]

green greens is great for olimar cuz he can camp well but it is small enough they can't run away and the blocks help get time for pickmin pluck. a purple to the bomb is deadly. platforms make aeirials and smashes easy

Another reason why it shouldn't be allowed. Olimar already camps far better than anyone in brawl.

 

[AranOcean]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how Norfair is a good counterpick for Pikachu. Would someone like to explain to me how this is so?

 

[F1ZZ]

While I was looking at the thread I noticed Peach does not have a worst stage. Can anybody explain why or was it just a mistake?

 

[AranOcean]

While I was looking at the thread I noticed Peach does not have a worst stage. Can anybody explain why or was it just a mistake?

They probably haven't found a "bad stage" for her yet....

Spoiler

or Peach is just that good...

 

[OmegaXF]

I learned a good amount of stuff, wonder if I can use it lol.

 

[Morrigan]

While I was looking at the thread I noticed Peach does not have a worst stage. Can anybody explain why or was it just a mistake?

Consider Lylat Cruise.

 

[deepseadiva]

While I was looking at the thread I noticed Peach does not have a worst stage. Can anybody explain why or was it just a mistake?

With the new stage list, Peach lost all her worst stages. Notably Corneria, then the more obscure Onett and Skyworld.

We need to find new ones. Lylat is good for Peach Dekuu. >___>

 

[Affinity]

With the new stage list, Peach lost all her worst stages. Notably Corneria, then the more obscure Onett and Skyworld.

We need to find new ones. Lylat is good for Peach Dekuu. >___>

Rainbow Cruise and Yoshi's Island (Brawl) are her worst stages.

 

[IrisKong]

Here are my thoughts on some of the characters who dont have all 3 stages for best/worst yet.




Donkey Kong
Best: Brinstar, Jungle Japes
Worst: Frigate Orpheon, Rainbow Cruise

For DK I would put his 3rd best stage easily being Luigi's Mansion, his ground pound is vicious here.


Ice Climbers
Best: Final Destination, Smashville, Pictochat
Worst: Rainbow Cruise

For Climbers I would put Norfair as one of the Climbers worst stages, Platforms maake it a bit harder (though not to much) for them to get there grab, and alot of characters with disjointed hit boxes will outshine them here.


Marth
Best: Battlefield, Delfino Plaza
Worst: Brinstar, Jungle Japes

For Marth... Marth likes Platforms so I would honestly say that Final D is a not so great stage for him, Marth easily adapts so its hard to CP him, but I would go FD.


Ness
Best: Delfino Plaza, Brinstar, Pirate Ship
Worst: Yoshi's Island, Yoshi's Island (Melee)

I dunno what the everyone else thinks but I would say Luigis Mansion hurts Ness...


Snake
Best: Norfair, Halberd, Smashville
Worst: Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise

I personally would say that Lylat is better for snake than Halberd...but thats me.


Wolf
Best: Smashville, Yoshi's Island
Worst: Lylat Cruise

I would think Frigate Orpheon would be bad for Wolf because of his awkward recovery and the lack of grabable edges.


Feel free to discuss or disregard, lol.

 

[PyroSpark]

Remove FD off of one of MKs worst stages. That's great for him.

 

[urfat]

a far worse counterpick for ivysaur then port town, is is summit... he gots no ledges to latch! possibly should be olimar's biggest counterpick too? but for my pokemanz summit= ivy ****

 

[MysticKenji]

summit isn't legal lol

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

I laughed a lot at Final Destination being the worst for Meta Knight.

 

[Ken Neth]

ORLY? What's worse for him then?

Also, Brinstar is one of Snake's best stages IMO. There are a couple characters that you shouldn't take there (i.e. wario and MK) but other than that Snake completely ***** on that stage. You can add that stage if you'd like to.

 

[Dai-A]

ORLY?

Yarly



10:V

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Falco is much worse on Brinstar than on Rainbow Cruise.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Don't take a Ness to brinstar.

 

[da K.I.D.]

MK has some stupid way to abuse every stage in the game, except final D

Its not a bad stage for him, becuase its very neutral but it is his worst stage just because of the overall neutrality of the stage, and the fact that people that have GR shenanigans on him like marth, shiek, ZSS and sonic, dont have said moves inhibited by this stage

 

[AnDaLe]

is there a "character" counterpicking made easy list?

 

[Ken Neth]

Nope I don't think so. You'd pretty much have to combine every character matchup thread from all the boards to get that, and a lot of them aren't even close to being done with it (the snake boards for example). I think it's a good idea though.

 

[deepseadiva]

For Marth... Marth likes Platforms so I would honestly say that Final D is a not so great stage for him, Marth easily adapts so its hard to CP him, but I would go FD.

I dunno what the everyone else thinks but I would say Luigis Mansion hurts Ness...

I personally would say that Lylat is better for snake than Halberd...but thats me.

Thanks, awesome post. I agreed with everything except for these three statements.

For Marth, I couldn't believe a starter stage could be his worst without a Marth main declaring it so. I'll stay sceptical.

Luigi's I know is good for Ness, his PK Thunder can be spammed through the middle and PK Fire on the pillars creates an instant fire wall. Just to name a few tricks.

And Halberd would be superior to Lylat if only for the low ceiling, the only advantage I'd see for Lylat is that it's dark. xD

MK has some stupid way to abuse every stage in the game, except final D

^^^
This. Plus the MKs told me so.

is there a "character" counterpicking made easy list?

I don't believe there is. Interesting idea though.