Creation of BBR Ruleset Committee; Brawl Nationals Agree to Same Stagelist! New TO's!

[Flayl]

I don't get the point of allowing Pictochat but not Jungle Japes. Pictochat can actually screw you though sheer bad luck.

Other than that I think the stage list looks pretty good. I think that sticky thing is horrible, but whatever.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Tournaments should be stickied based on popularity of the tournament, not the damn ruleset.

1. Less than 5% of tournaments will ever get a sticky at current. It is an incentive that therefor is not overbearing on every single tournament.
2. It is likely most TO's that will be a part of this group and will have had a say in the decision. This is just the very, very start, the infancy, of this initiative.
3. Stickies have always been determined by Smashboards staff. Popularity is a factor, but not the only factor. Non-popular tournaments have been stuck before (fundraisers for charity for example, or circuit events even if they are not going to be big). In addition to that, tournaments that were suppose to be popular (GAMME) were never stuck due to judgement calls made by staff (well before issues surfaced with the tournament, the tournament seemed fishy and so it was never stuck, then the issues arose and it turned out it was a good thing it was not stuck). Anyways, my point is that its always been on the staff to determine whether to sticky a tournament or not, and this simply outlines more of what will be required for that to happen.

 

[ADHD]

BPC, it makes alot of sense for TO's to use what they know is working for them instead of jumping to a completely drastic change just to experiment what's what. Unfortunately (or fortunately), liberal stagelists haven't been tested in large tournaments with notable players, so we don't know how it will go, and the large TO's are what's keeping this game alive.

I like every stage on here, and never thought PS2 was banworthy and pictochat much more either after it being legal at Alex strife's recent events. The only thing I would add is maybe jungle japes, because I honestly don't see what's wrong with that stage.

 

[Xyro77]

Budget, please stop. You are really making yourself look bad right now. This game is about to be 3 years old and nearluy every region has a different ruleset and some of them even change their rules set every quarter. Then you have the bbr issue a ******** ruleset and NO ONE uses it. Its chaos.


This group was made to fix all of that and create a unified ruleset(like we had in melee). With the help of jv/the main 5 TOs(more will be added later) this can finally be done. Wether you believe xyz and abc should be legal/cp, just sit back and give it a chance. Unlike the bbr, this list was made from TOs who are VERY experienced and PLAY the game. We know what we are doing.

 

[KageMurphy]

The incentive for a sticky is such a good idea, I think that's how it needs to be in order for us to see this list pop up more and more.

I love it myself, def a step in the right direction for the community as a whole. We should be treating this game like the NFL, a set rule set for everyone to follow, I can see a lot of great progression coming from this, people just have to be willing to settle and agree that this is a legit ruleset based on what we have to work with.

Unified we stand, no more "I'm not going because such n such is on the stage list or w/e" Everyone adapt~!

 

[Orion*]

There were also less than 10 people making complaints in the BBR-at-large. Overswarm does not at all speak for everybody, most of the supporters (as usual) are silent. Those that disapprove always make the most noise, this is a general truth in life.

please dont pretend that thread wasn't a mess :/

lol there are plenty of people that i know that also didn't talk that hated everything thats going on so unless you have like numbers or something that can go both ways.

i really do have to agree with overswarm on about.... 90% of what he's saying even if the way he words it make it sound like the world is torn asunder. and trust me saying i agree with overswarm is like... something i almost never thought would happen... >_>

BPC, it makes alot of sense for TO's to use what they know is working for them instead of jumping to a completely drastic change just to experiment what's what. Unfortunately (or fortunately), liberal stagelists haven't been tested in large tournaments with notable players, so we don't know how it will go, and the large TO's are what's keeping this game alive.

this

 

[skaterbaj]

I always thought having different rulesets for different nationals made the game diverse and really told what each region was about. Now its like the Mlgs with same stage list at every national? meh?

 

[MattDotZeb]

1. Less than 5% of tournaments will ever get a sticky at current. It is an incentive that therefor is not overbearing on every single tournament.
2. It is likely most TO's that will be a part of this group and will have had a say in the decision. This is just the very, very start, the infancy, of this initiative.
3. Stickies have always been determined by Smashboards staff. Popularity is a factor, but not the only factor. Non-popular tournaments have been stuck before (fundraisers for charity for example, or circuit events even if they are not going to be big). In addition to that, tournaments that were suppose to be popular (GAMME) were never stuck due to judgement calls made by staff (well before issues surfaced with the tournament, the tournament seemed fishy and so it was never stuck, then the issues arose and it turned out it was a good thing it was not stuck). Anyways, my point is that its always been on the staff to determine whether to sticky a tournament or not, and this simply outlines more of what will be required for that to happen.

Okay.
I don't run Brawl often (and my tournaments aren't really big for it anyway), but I wanted to hear the reasoning behind why only tournaments with that ruleset would be stickied.
Thanks for replying, it makes sense to use it as an incentive instead of using it as a controlling method (which is what I wanted to dispute - if it was the latter).

I'd like to see where this goes and hope it works well for the Brawl community.

 

[clowsui]

people are realizing that JJ is more legitimate than Pictochat?

oh man...I AM OVERJOYED

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

It's a good thing BPC doesn't actually play the game, or this stuff might actually affect him.

^Do you even run tournaments, BPC?
If you do, then just run events without this ruleset.
If you don't, then leave it to the TOs to debate -or- stop coming to tournaments because you dislike this ruleset.

First of all: you're both *****. I actually play the game, I go to tournaments as often as my schedule and the german tournament scene allows, and I intend on hosting tournaments as soon as I can find a location.

I'm complaining because, well, it's the right thing to do. Like when people protested the Iraq war worldwide-you think people in Madrid thought it might affect them? You don't have to be directly involved to say, "hang on, this **** is bananas".

More importantly, it is also a list that does not require other TO's to change very much their own stagelists.

It still requires them to add or remove stages. Like my buddies on GSB? They're laughing at this because it has Pictochat. People in Nova Scotia would be puzzled as to why stages that have been fine in the ruleset for ages are suddenly getting dropped (and it's like 8-10 stages!) if Raziek was a part of this. People on the east coast are going to bemoan the inclusion of PS2. And, get this, it's STILL NOT A LOGICALLY CRAFTED RULESET! It has all the disadvantages of the BBR 3.0 ruleset (other than "nobody will ever use it") but none of the advantages!

For my tournaments, that I run and am responsible for, I'm OK with dropping Norfair and Green Greens from my list. I can sacrifice this because I believe firmly in the goal of getting most tournament under the same ruleset.

So you'll install a more scrubby ruleset just to get everyone to agree on a scrubby ruleset? Why?

Making stagelists/rulesets is not easy. There is probably not a single person in this thread whose personal, ideal ruleset would match another person. Think about that, and then keep that problem in mind when talking about getting most tournaments to use the same thing, so we finally come off as a united, more professional, more responsible, more mature, etc etc community.

It's not EASY. But you know what? It's possible and can be logically determined. Which was the approach the BBR was taking (whereas the people in the general populace acted like the arabs from that one episode of American Dad where the boy meets god and decided to ignore it because they didn't like part of the message).

People always ask me what issues the Smash community has that hurts its image to those outside it. One of the biggest issues to outsiders (both who are looking to take part in the game, or to sponsor the game, or to use the game at their tournaments) is our rules are completely funky, that we have no unity, that every single little TO decision gets second guessed by attendees and that it makes our community look bad and it makes it hard to run a Brawl tournament without dealing with constant grief.

Then why not start with the **** which is obvious? Like telling TheTantalus that this part of the Pound V ruleset is completely scrubby and totally not okay:

*"Continuous Sharking" is banned. This can be denoted as flying under the stage repeatedly with any character that can glide, just to fly back to the other side again without approaching the opponent. First offense will be a warning, 2nd will be a stock, and 3rd will be the game.

Or telling Axel that this is not okay:

# If a player successfully ends the match with either Bowser or Ganondorf's over B attack by suicide, then the player who initiated the move wins.

Or informing Neal that this part of the AiB ladder ruleset is utter horse****:

# King Dedede must dash before re-grabbing an opponent after a down-throw, unless the situation would allow King Dedede to regrab his opponent because of a facet of the stage, as in the case of a wall infinite.

These are the kind of things that are EASY! It's pure ****ing logic to determine that those rules are ridiculously scrubby and BAD. Start with the parts of the ruleset which are completely obvious for logical thinkers; banning infinites, banning sharking/scrooging, giving the win to people starting suicides for no reason, having inappropriately small starter lists, stuff like that. The stuff that should've been gone AGES AGO. No reason to tackle the hardest target, the one that is incredibly hard to quantify and has to be extensively tested at every turn (like the BBR did, as I'm led to believe...).


And yes, changes like this have to happen gradually. But with this in place, what's to say that they will happen at all?

 

[Steam]

Let's assume for a minute you're right, and there's no truly quantifiable measure of when a game is more or less competitive. EVEN THEN, the community as a whole could come together and find reasonable criteria for when the game is more or less competitive. And no, I don't mean by popular opinion.
However, just a cursory glance at various ranges of gaming points to one major qualifying factor in competition: depth. Almost every game played competitively on a global level has an amazing amount of depth. If we as a community agree on this (and we should, because it's been the basis for competitive games for millenia; it's the largest separation between Tic Tac Toe and games like Chess or Go), then there is a logical conclusion that must be accepted; liberal stagelists are more competitive.

When the community comes together to determine what is competetive, popular opinion is pretty much the only way to reflect the views of the community. The game still has tons of depth even and neutrals. I mean stages like japes add little to no depth, you camp harder and occaisionally get gayed by the stage/get free grab release kills.

 

[Orion*]

Unlike the bbr, this list was made from TOs who are VERY experienced and PLAY the game. We know what we are doing.

THIS. you have um.....

the best samus. and the best rob.

 

[demonictoonlink]

BPC....your logic...it's....flawless.

But really, good stuff BBR. Though I still feel there are a few things to be worked on, I would be very content if this is the final official ruleset.

(Just saying though, I really think getting 2 bans in a Bo5 set makes sense)

 

[Orion*]

BPC....your logic...it's....flawless.

But really, good stuff BBR. Though I still feel there are a few things to be worked on, I would be very content if this is the final official ruleset.

(Just saying though, I really think getting 2 bans in a Bo5 set makes sense)

thanks, i didnt do anything

It still requires them to add or remove stages. Like my buddies on GSB? They're laughing at this because it has Pictochat. People in Nova Scotia would be puzzled as to why stages that have been fine in the ruleset for ages are suddenly getting dropped (and it's like 8-10 stages!) if Raziek was a part of this. People on the east coast are going to bemoan the inclusion of PS2. And, get this, it's STILL NOT A LOGICALLY CRAFTED RULESET! It has all the disadvantages of the BBR 3.0 ruleset (other than "nobody will ever use it") but none of the advantages!

wow

bpc actually didnt make me facedesk.

 

[Xyro77]

There will not be 2 bans. Please stop bringing it up.

 

[Orion*]

There will not be 2 bans. Please stop bringing it up.

*infinitely more happy*

bans picto/FD

*prays to god everyone hates ps2 as much as i do*

 

[KageMurphy]

I always thought having different rulesets for different nationals made the game diverse and really told what each region was about. Now its like the Mlgs with same stage list at every national? meh?

I've gone to a lot of Nationals and I've never much cared for them having different rule sets, the difference between Pound 4 and APEX 2010 were night and day. If everything is more unified I think that will benefit everyone in the long run. Local events using the same consistent list that these large Nationals coming up are would be the ideal practice for everyone. Change isn't a bad thing and this def makes the game feel more legit, I also suspect it could be used by MLG when/if we're picked up next season, if they see almost every event using it then that gives us a chance to have a strong say in the next ruleset they decide on.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

There will not be 2 bans. Please stop bringing it up.

K, why will there be one ban?

 

[AlphaZealot]

Dang, knew I forgot something in that announcement, but yea, we (alex strife/xyro/tantalus/havok/myself) are settled on one ban. Made the edit.

From my perspective I've seen some tournaments run with 2-bans and it was just ehhh. Everything became really limited, and that would be especially true in a set that would go to 5th game-chances are that late in a set (with 2 bans in play) a players options become limited to only (depends slightly on DSR, which we haven't talked about yet and will have more TOs added before we do) 8 stages. Unless your MK, you are probably severely hindered by this point in the set then (aka game 5).

 

[demonictoonlink]

There will not be 2 bans. Please stop bringing it up.

Why? I haven't read over the whole thread and tbh don't plan to, but was there already a discussion about it?

I know it's not really supposed to be based around individual characters, but does MK really deserve to get either RC or Brinstar?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Why? I haven't read over the whole thread and tbh don't plan to, but was there already a discussion about it?

I know it's not really supposed to be based around individual characters, but does MK really deserve to get either RC or Brinstar?

/agree

Seriously, I really would like to know this. Why have stage bans at all? Why have one stage ban when two does the job much better? And hell, I've even covered the "individual characters" problem. Furthermore, it's not an overly dramatic change; who would really oppose it? I doubt all that many people would.

 

[Sage JoWii]

BPC <----this guy makes threads better. Srsly. Going to any 'new' announcement regarding tournament brawl I know BPC, who is in a region w/ very little tournament activity/doesn't go to tournaments regularly/ doesn't go to tournaments with any notables/isn't notable in brawl/ believes theory and logic should prevail over experience and reality, will be there to type massive walls of txt that'll amount to nothing all for the sake of making sure what he has to say is known so other people can 'benefit'.

I'm just surprised SuSa, Spelt and Niddo aren't in here throwing around words that don't matter since it won't change anything because this is brawl/swf and not a government or something realistic like that those guys are dumb and feel accomplished from reading there own words and will accomplish nothing because overall no one reaaaaalllllllllolololllololoololololly cares about what they have to say regardless of if they think they're logical, read 'better than these commoners' who don't have brains jsaf;oirnjaoncvsdlkfnerl;gfl two bans plox.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

BPC <----this guy makes threads better. Srsly. Going to any 'new' announcement regarding tournament brawl I know BPC, who is in a region w/ very little tournament activity/doesn't go to tournaments regularly/ doesn't go to tournaments with any notables/isn't notable in brawl/ believes theory and logic should prevail over experience and reality, will be there to type massive walls of txt that'll amount to nothing all for the sake of making sure what he has to say is known so other people can 'benefit'.:

I'm just gonna quote this because I like it so much.

Also, playing the game, and playing the game and not being complete garbage are two different things. If you're still losing to unnamed Lucas players, you've got some things to work out before you go flaunting your opinion to everyone.

 

[Orion*]

K, why will there be one ban?

oh i actually read that as two bans and was SO happy >_>

nvm

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

BPC <----this guy makes threads better. Srsly. Going to any 'new' announcement regarding tournament brawl I know BPC, who is in a region w/ very little tournament activity/doesn't go to tournaments regularly/ doesn't go to tournaments with any notables/isn't notable in brawl/ believes theory and logic should prevail over experience and reality, will be there to type massive walls of txt that'll amount to nothing all for the sake of making sure what he has to say is known so other people can 'benefit'.

Logic shouldn't prevail over reality. Logic IS reality. If new results come out showing, once and for all, that Japes is completely broken, then I'll support it being banned. These results don't exist, so banning the stage remains ridiculous. Also, ftr, in 2 weeks, I'm going to an international with virtually all european notables. >.>

I have nothing against experience and reality. I have something against SKEWED experience and reality. I mean, on your side, what a lot of us are getting is like an MK main *****ing about FD because he doesn't know how to fight ICs/Falco/Diddy there, and demanding it be banned because it's broken! We've been getting that kind of thing for a while, and it's ridiculously wrong experience. It's people getting stomped on stages like GG for not knowing what they're doing and then johning about it. That's not useful at all.

I'm just surprised SuSa, Spelt and Niddo aren't in here throwing around words that don't matter since it won't change anything because this is brawl/swf and not a government or something realistic like that those guys are dumb and feel accomplished from reading there own words and will accomplish nothing because overall no one reaaaaalllllllllolololllololoololololly cares about what they have to say regardless of if they think they're logical, read 'better than these commoners' who don't have brains jsaf;oirnjaoncvsdlkfnerl;gfl two bans plox.

We don't think we're better, and we're simply trying to change things by acting logically. And it doesn't matter how much you people try to ignore us; I may suck but my reasoning doesn't.



You think there's something wrong with two bans? Then answer this: why have one ban?

 

[etecoon]

actually the MK main has been telling you this whole time that FD is perfectly fine and that brinstar is the aberration <_<

which is completely against my best interests but it is what it is

 

[lordhelmet]

"Stickies on Smashboards will be limited only to tournaments using this ruleset, effective January 1st."

"Coverage on AllisBrawl will be limited only to tournaments using this ruleset, effective January 1st."

Sounds like totalitarianism to me.

The reason a standardized ruleset was never put into place before is because there are too many variables. Since this will basically force TOs to follow this exact ruleset, it's safe to say you will see a lot of backlash.

So far the stagelist is quite agreeable, good job there (I still despise Brinstar). How are you going to come to terms with regions that have different stances on infinites? It's not like there's a middle ground to D3's standing infinite or the infinites on Ness/Lucas. What about LGLs and suicide KOs?

This looks like a disaster waiting to happen - please prove me wrong.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Logically, TOs have the ability to do whatever they want to their rulesets and stagelist because they're the one's that actually organize and conduct the events.

Why have one ban? Because Xyro/Alyx/AZ/Tantalus/Havok decided there would be one ban.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Logically, TOs have the ability to do whatever they want to their rulesets and stagelist because they're the one's that actually organize and conduct the events.

Why have one ban? Because Xyro/Alyx/AZ/Tantalus/Havok decided there would be one ban.

Yes, and this is why I am trying to logically convince them to change their decision. Why shouldn't I?

 

[fkacyan]

Welcome to the problem with double CP rulesets, people.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Why have one ban? Because Xyro/Alyx/AZ/Tantalus/Havok decided there would be one ban.

Actually, it would more be like
"because Pound 5, Genesis 2, Whobo 3, MLG (if there is still MLG *crosses fingers*), and Apex all use one ban"

Heck the known nationals for 2011 (Pound 5, Genesis 2, and Whobo 3) are on board. You don't want to gear your ruleset similar to what the biggest events are doing?

BTW: we'll get an application topic up in about a week or two.

"Stickies on Smashboards will be limited only to tournaments using this ruleset, effective January 1st."

"Coverage on AllisBrawl will be limited only to tournaments using this ruleset, effective January 1st."

Please view my response to Mattdot, stickies for Smashboards are only to a small number of tournaments (less than 5%), and stickies have always been a staff decision based on multiple factors. This is an incentive, not losing the ability to have a tournament stuck effects only a very small portion of tournaments.

As for AllisBrawl, in an entire year, less than a dozen tournaments are typically covered, and it is typically only the nationals, which have essentially already banded together.

 

[fkacyan]

Heck the known nationals for 2011 (Pound 5, Genesis 2, and Whobo 3) are on board. You don't want to gear your ruleset similar to what the biggest events are doing?

This seems like a bruteforce way to convert the ruleset instead of an appeal to logic.

Was Omni a part of this?

Also, if those rulesets are bad, why would people want to use them?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's okay. An entirely different combination of 4 letters that doesn't share a single letter with the other is easily confused.

That's what I get for posting right before I go to bed. >_>

*goes off to read rest of the new posts*

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Actually, it would more be like
"because Pound 5, Genesis 2, Whobo 3, MLG (if there is still MLG *crosses fingers*), and Apex all use one ban"

Heck the known nationals for 2011 (Pound 5, Genesis 2, and Whobo 3) are on board. You don't want to gear your ruleset similar to what the biggest events are doing?

I meant an actual reason. Not an appeal to tradition or an appeal to the majority. A reason. Why do we have one stage ban? Why was a stage ban implemented in the first place? Why don't THEY use 2 stage bans? If anyone wants me to go into why I consider 2 stage bans miles better than 1 with this stagelist, I gladly will.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

An arbitrary choice that was proven to be successful in various, national-sized tournaments? Who the hell cares, it works.

 

[Sage JoWii]

If logic was reality, BPC would be king. >_> In his mind, anything illogical is wrong. +_+ I am BPC, my logic is undeniable. Submit to assimilation of my flawless logic. Beep boop beep.

****, this isn't IRobot nikkuh.

+1 support for this thread as long as it's what BPC doesn't want since he's normally dumb.

Edit:

If anyone wants me to go into why I consider 2 stage bans miles better than 1 with this stagelist, I gladly will.

Wait a minute........>_> who the hell would actually want you to other than the 5 ppl who also agree w/ all the dumb dumb trollllllllllllllable stuff you say.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Well, I'm going to have to agree that the "BBR" part of the topic title should be removed. I forgot that Xyro wasn't in the BBR anymore. Make it "Creation of Top TOs Ruleset Committee" or something like that. Something that actually makes sense.

Besides all of that, it would appear I only missed bunch of more whining. Glad to know there wasn't much important that I didn't get a chance to reply to as it occurred. :D

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

An arbitrary choice that was proven to be successful in various, national-sized tournaments? Who the hell cares, it works.

Then why not go with the arbitrary choice which actually fulfills the function better? I mean, do you think it's a good idea for MK mains to force everyone else to go to RC or Brinstar (both pretty damn awful for almost everyone)?

 

[TheTantalus]

Addressing this list:

# Battlefield
# Battleship Halberd
# Brinstar
# Castle Siege
# Delfino Plaza
# Final Destination
# Lylat Cruise
# Pokemon Stadium 1
# Pokémon Stadium 2
# Frigate Orpheon
# Picto Chat
# Rainbow Cruise
# Smashville
# Yoshi's Island

I picked these stages with good thoughts in mind. Before, in Maryland, we only used the conservative 12 stage list. I've found that with the normal 12 stage list, the game is a bit too limited. I was experimenting with a variety of options, including 2 bans and lots of cp stages. I tried a variety of stages, including Pokemon Stadium 2, Jungle Japes, Pictochat and others. This was before the MLG ruleset.

After seeing the MLG ruleset, and the way the CP's were done, and enacting the same ruleset in our locals, we found that the rules were quite exciting. Our community also shared the approval of the removal of Jungle Japes.

My personal policy is that I don't like any stages that can kill you completely situationally at 0%.

With that said, that makes Norfair and Japes off the list. I do understand that Pictochat, and also Frigate (in an extremely rare situation) can do that.

Pictochat was a stage I included to increase the ground game abilities of characters in this area, as Metaknight does the worst on the ground. I felt like Metaknight himself was a bit too versatile in the 12 CP list. Giving the other characters a second solid grounded stage to use helps out big time. I'm not opposed to removing it next year. Or trying out norfair/japes back in the roster.

I also never saw a reason to ban pokemon stadium 2, which is why I added that.

Removing frigate from the list is just quite absurd, as it provides tons of matchup balance with the way the stage is built.

Green Greens is not a legal stage. I don't know why this is still even a discussion.

As for the sharking, it's a dumb rule that I don't like. I actually will be discussing it with this group shortly. I made that rule based off a situation that happened at pound last year.

Anyways, that's my thoughts. That list was also the middle ground of the used stagelists.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

After seeing the MLG ruleset, and the way the CP's were done, and enacting the same ruleset in our locals, we found that the rules were quite exciting. Our community also shared the approval of the removal of Jungle Japes.

Why? Is JJ broken, or just too gay?

My personal policy is that I don't like any stages that can kill you completely situationally at 0%.

So... any stage? Blastzones kill at any %. Japes can kill you at 0% how? Maybe with a super lightweight and terrible DI, plus having been forced into one of the most niche situations in the game (seriously, if someone can force you into the claptrap, you didn't just get outplayed-you got COMPLETELY AND THOROUGHLY *****). Norfair... what? That can't kill you at 0% unless you are literally a mannequin.

Pictochat was a stage I included to increase the ground game abilities of characters in this area, as Metaknight does the worst on the ground. I felt like Metaknight himself was a bit too versatile in the 12 CP list. Giving the other characters a second solid grounded stage to use helps out big time. I'm not opposed to removing it next year. Or trying out norfair/japes back in the roster.

But you're ignoring all the negative aspects of the stage and focusing on one thing. The reason it's often banned (ball-breaking, obscene randomness-keep in mind that this is a stage that can gimp you at 0% completely randomly, while you banned Japes for being able to do so after being put in an extraordinarily awful position involving completely non-random events!) is not addressed at all... If it's considered acceptable, well, fine-that's subjective. But really? That's kinda pushing it... wouldn't you agree?

I also never saw a reason to ban pokemon stadium 2, which is why I added that.

<3
Seriously, it's about damn time people figured out that PS2 is not just a legit stage, but one of the most balanced and legit stages in the game.

Removing frigate from the list is just quite absurd, as it provides tons of matchup balance with the way the stage is built.

And the "gimps you at 0%" hazard is completely non-random and easily avoided. But really, if you were consequent with your original statement (which is IMO very false), you would not excuse Frigate just because it's "balanced".

Green Greens is not a legal stage. I don't know why this is still even a discussion.

Because there were no real problems with it at MLG? Because there are no real registered results of its abuse anywhere? Why its legality is up for discussion at this point beats me too, especially when you can't ban it for being "too random" (you have picto legal; banning any stage except Warioware for randomness at this point would be ridiculous).

As for the sharking, it's a dumb rule that I don't like. I actually will be discussing it with this group shortly. I made that rule based off a situation that happened at pound last year.

Thank you. It is a very silly rule... Here's a question-does it apply to sharking (say, MK constantly going under the stage and uairing you a lot on delfino, only to land back on the stage and go do it again) or only to scrooging? Because if it's the latter, then it's a misnomer, and if it's the former, you might wanna clear up the wording a little bit.