Deleted

[MarKO X]

Whoa.... Sonic's Down B beats a Tornado at three stars? This is the same attack that gets beat by a rollout and an Egg roll!

I'm just saying... maybe that should be checked if it hasn't been, or maybe even specified... like, the close downBs and SideBs with Sonic tend to have crazy priority, while the long range ones... not so much... there has to be a difference, no?

 

[Tenki]

on a lollinote,

the apples in green greens outprioritize MK's tornado and kill him at around 100-120%.

Or something like that.

 

[MarKO X]

Great. So Green Greens is the other counterpick stage for MK.

 

[lain]

Did a bunch of people just have to correct that list?

 

[Ulevo]

I've updated the thread again with the rest of the attacks. I need to grab Kirby and Links information on my other computer once I have time today. I also might type out the uses of each move, since there seems to be some confusion as to how some of these moves actually work.

 

[Pikabunz]

Jigglypuff
Just tested these. All these moves have to be used at the top.
Nair ***
Bair **
Fair **
Pound **
Rest *

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Nice job Ulevo, I think you have all of the Marth things that overwrite it, Counter is TOO GOOD against the tornado.

 

[MysticKenji]

Why is Ike's counter a 3?

The hitbox on it is pretty much completely horizontal, so as long as MK doesn't send it directly in front or behind you, it won't hit.

There's also its ~10 frame startup.

 

[Ref]

Ness' D air can hit Meta knight out of the tornado from above. **
Ness' B air can hit Meta knight out of the tornado from above . ***
Ness' N air from above as well. ***
Ness' U air from above. **

Ness' Down smash and Up smash too well spaced. **

PK flash uncharged as well as charged too. **

PK thunder head to the top of Tornado works. * due to the control needed versus speed of tornado

PK Thunder 2 sweet spot. ** due to time it takes to PKT2

 

[ph00tbag]

Diddy's Monkey Flip can do it with invincibility frames and grab priority, although it's probably only one or two stars, because it needs some precision.

 

[darkspatan117]

laser stop t

 

[Steeler]

charizard's ftilt works, probably needs to sweetspot though.

 

[kennypoopoo]

On the G&W spot you wrote Dair as Dari not a biggie but just letting you know. The guide looks good though !!

 

[RedSnowman]

Luigi's Nair also can outdo a tornado if it comes from the top... so it should be in blue and a one * I think. If he sex kicks above the tornado at the right time meta will be sent straight upwards.

Also poor link and kirby lol.

 

[Ulevo]

I believe Ivysaur's dash attack breaks through the whorenado.

Yes, I am aware that the list is not complete, I'm saying that just in case the Thread Creator did not know.

It unfortunately does not. The Tornados hitbox is too wide and catches Ivysaur out of his attack animation before he gets close enough, sadly.

For PT

Squirtle- Fsmash. Requires some degree of timing though.
Fair- I *think* this works on the bottomish part of the tornado. Not 100% on that though.
Usmash- From underneath.
Forward B- ***
Dair Above.

Ivysaur- Forward B. I'm pretty sure this one works.
Dash atack- Timed right.
Fsmash- Best option for knocking him out of it.
Jab-
Dair- From above.
Usmash- From below.

I'll try testing out the Dtilt/Ftilt/Fair/Bair

Zamus-

Armor piece throw.
Forward B-
Grab- (With MK on ground)
Dair- Above

I'll try to check Fsmash and a few other moves when I get on brawl.

Fair does not work for Squirtle unfortunately. For the USmash, I'll be updating a list of attacks for those that hit from below once I have a partner to help me test these out.

Ivysaurs Razor Leaf and Dash Attack don't work. Jab and Dair are too difficult and inconvenient for me to consider putting on the list.

With Zamus, I'm almost positive Armour pieces do not stop the Tornado, but I'll double check.

You need to add Dedede's inhale and Up tilt. Up tilt is probably the best move for tornado anyway so it definitley needs to be up there being a 3 star imo.

It out prioritizes nado at a certain point in the air. Specifically when they're below you with nado and you inhale them on your way down.
I would rate it a 2 star for how much I use it.

And Jet hammer should definitley be a 1 star.
Fsmash should be 2.

Just throwing it out there.

I've never had Inhale work for me. I only know of it's use to kill MK off stage if he's near the edge. I'll try that out, but I don't believe in works. I know Kirbys works well. UTilt will be tested when I get a partner to help me with attacks that come from below the Nado.
Jet Hammer should be a 2 in my opinion, it's faster than FSmash. FSmash is too lagy, and I'm only keeping it as an edge guard tactic from Tornado recoveries.

Sonic's spring and dair from above. Also fsmash and sometimes fair works too.

Sonics Fair isn't large enough to bypass MK's hitbox unfortunately. The others work though

Be sure to add both variations of Diddy's across B.

The kung fu kick variation will cancel out the tornado, whilst the air grab version has invincibility frames during the beginning of the animation, therefore allowing you to grab Meta out of his Tornado.

Whatever you decide to rate them as, I wouldn't say either of them are 3 star, even though they are relatively easy to do.

I tried repeatedly to get both variations to work, but came up with nada. I'll try it again later to see if I can come up with anything. Maybe I spaced poorly.

Wolfs blaster stops the whorenade iirc, and I think his fair can do it too, if perfectly timed

The Fair does not have enough length to bypass the hitbox.

Bowser flame **

Doesn't work, nor does Charizards.

G&W

FTilt***
DSmash***
USmash*
Dash Attack*** <--- Probably your best bet.
Dair*T
Bair*** <--- False. Doesn't work at all.
Neutral B**T
Up B*/** <--- Only sends you into it. Fun.

Bair works. The first one or two hits of the turtle cancel it, and the rest of it stabs at Meta Knight. As long as you space it well, which isn't difficult, it will work. Chef is also not as reliable as a ** because you need to rely on the random food to hit through the top. As for Up B, the spring will send MK upwards and leave him helpess to a FSmash, DSmash, USmash, Grab or 9.

Olimar's fair shouldn't go through the tornado. Most every attack from above (such as Olimar's dair) will hit through the tornado. I don't think you should include those. >_>

His grab can only grab the tornado if it's touching the ground. Otherwise it's useless.

A Fair easily overrides the Nado if Olimar uses a Purple Pikmin. Not overly useful, but something to keep in mind.

Jigglypuff
Just tested these. All these moves have to be used at the top.
Nair ***
Bair **
Fair **
Pound **
Rest *

All of these don't seem relatively useful excluding Rest, but I'll retest.

Why is Ike's counter a 3?

The hitbox on it is pretty much completely horizontal, so as long as MK doesn't send it directly in front or behind you, it won't hit.

There's also its ~10 frame startup.

You're right, I should probably bop it down to a ** or *.

Ness' D air can hit Meta knight out of the tornado from above. **
Ness' B air can hit Meta knight out of the tornado from above . ***
Ness' N air from above as well. ***
Ness' U air from above. **

Ness' Down smash and Up smash too well spaced. **

PK flash uncharged as well as charged too. **

PK thunder head to the top of Tornado works. * due to the control needed versus speed of tornado

PK Thunder 2 sweet spot. ** due to time it takes to PKT2

I believe I tested most of those aerials and found them to be rather useless. I'll test again.

Also, DSmash and USmash didn't work. PK Thunder is worth retesting. PKT2 is probably a * at best.

Luigi's Nair also can outdo a tornado if it comes from the top... so it should be in blue and a one * I think. If he sex kicks above the tornado at the right time meta will be sent straight upwards.

Also poor link and kirby lol.

I can't see it being nearly as useful as the Dair.

 

[Camalange]

Ah, I could've sworn if you did Sonic's Fair at the right moment it would work..oh well I didn't test that so, hah.

 

[CO18]

Uhh why would I lie to you. Inhale works and its semi-effective.

There are very few instances youll be using jet hammer, it has bad startup lag just like fsmash except just worse range.

Up tilt is def the best move though.

 

[RedSnowman]

I can't see it being nearly as useful as the Dair.

Yes it's not as efficient as Luigi's Dair, but Luigi's Nair is like a panic button for some players due to it's good priority. I thought it would be a nice addition because people might use it and it does get around his tornado.

 

[Ref]

I believe I tested most of those aerials and found them to be rather useless. I'll test again.

Also, DSmash and USmash didn't work. PK Thunder is worth retesting. PKT2 is probably a * at best.

The yo yo should definitely work. I got it to work.

All of those aerials have to come from above. They work.

I can see PKT2 becoming a * due to the fact you have to Make sure you hit Meta knight, If you hit the tornado, you'll get sucked in.

PK Flash works for sure.

If Needed Ulevo, for what ever reason you can't pull them off, I can supply video proof.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

DK's upb stops it i believe, or you can eat it with SA frames and attack

 

[Ulevo]

Uhh why would I lie to you. Inhale works and its semi-effective.

There are very few instances youll be using jet hammer, it has bad startup lag just like fsmash except just worse range.

Up tilt is def the best move though.

You lied about Aleesha, and Danielle. And Rachel. All of them. How could you!

... On another note, Jet Hammer is still not your move of preference, but it's better than FSmash in my opinion. It has bad start up lag, but no where near the lag it takes for him to throw the hammer over his shoulder for the smash. I also tried falling with Inhale only to have it fail, but I shall test again.

Yes it's not as efficient as Luigi's Dair, but Luigi's Nair is like a panic button for some players due to it's good priority. I thought it would be a nice addition because people might use it and it does get around his tornado.

I suppose I should add it in just for the sake of it. It may have its uses.

The yo yo should definitely work. I got it to work.

All of those aerials have to come from above. They work.

I can see PKT2 becoming a * due to the fact you have to Make sure you hit Meta knight, If you hit the tornado, you'll get sucked in.

PK Flash works for sure.

If Needed Ulevo, for what ever reason you can't pull them off, I can supply video proof.

I know the aerials start from above, I just couldn't find a use for them. Dair was too hard to time as it usually canceled with the Nado, and the others would just be a hassle to hit with. PK Flash was in a similar boat. There's almost no reason for you to use it, especially against a whirling Meta Knight coming after you.

As for the Yo Yos, I'll try again. I found it usually canceled with the Nado most times, so I might need video confirmation. It may be just my lack of a partner.

DK's upb stops it i believe, or you can eat it with SA frames and attack

I couldn't get it to work, but I do recall it having super armor. Was that on the grounded spin, or the aerial one?

 

[Ref]

Actually Ulevo It's not hard to hit with those other aerials. The B air has a huge sweet spot, it's much larger than what you probably think.

The D air I can see being hard but I would still say it's a **.

Fast fall u air on the Tornado is a classic if you ask me. Easier to do than the D air.

The N air, there is a hit box out for as long as Ness spins. Easiest besides F air and activates in 4 frames about.

It's useful to me. Very useful.

DK SA for the Up B is grounded Ulevo

 

[Ulevo]

Actually Ulevo It's not hard to hit with those other aerials. The B air has a huge sweet spot, it's much larger than what you probably think.

The D air I can see being hard but I would still say it's a **.

Fast fall u air on the Tornado is a classic if you ask me. Easier to do than the D air.

The N air, there is a hit box out for as long as Ness spins. Easiest besides F air and activates in 4 frames about.

It's useful to me. Very useful.

Ness could actually Jab at a grounded Nado to cancel It I'm pretty sure.

DK SA for the Up B is grounded Ulevo

Alrighty. I'll relook into those then.

Just on a side note, I'm not looking to cancel the tornado. Odds are, if you cancel the tornado, Meta Knight will just have to DSmash you once the lag ends since he's faster than almost any other character that you'll be playing.

 

[Ref]

Alrighty. I'll relook into those then.

Okay thank you for doing all this testing. They all hit Meta knight out of the Nado.

 

[TKD]

Hey, I want to point this out. Wolf's bair beats the tornado out if very well spaced (half the time I think). You HAVE to space it well anyway, since MK's fair outranges you if you don't.

Wolf's reflector even outranges it. Even if you get trapped in the tornado, it's often for the chance to spark out of it present itself.

And D3's bair should have 2 stars...It doesn't always work, at least not if MK tornadoes from above ground (I'm guessing the list only covers grounded nadoes).

Also, the IC's blizzard...LOL!! Should have like 10,000 *'s

 

[Affinity]

MK's N-air and Shuttle Loop don't beat Mach Tornado.

 

[Ref]

Also Wolf's reflector causes him to be invincible when activated. So it definitively works hit Meta out of the tornado. Also works without using invincibility from above.

The yo yo to knock Meta knight you have to do it right. Down smash works much better than up smash. Space right and you'll get it really easily. Just down smash. It has more range than Ness' forward smash on the back hit.

As for the up smash I retested and it knocks MK and he can still shield the release hit

 

[darkspatan117]

^I didn't thought of it thx for the info

 

[Ulevo]

Hey, I want to point this out. Wolf's bair beats the tornado out if very well spaced (half the time I think). You HAVE to space it well anyway, since MK's fair outranges you if you don't.

Wolf's reflector even outranges it. Even if you get trapped in the tornado, it's often for the chance to spark out of it present itself.

And D3's bair should have 2 stars...It doesn't always work, at least not if MK tornadoes from above ground (I'm guessing the list only covers grounded nadoes).

Also, the IC's blizzard...LOL!! Should have like 10,000 *'s

The list covers both aerial and grounded Nados. I'm just going for a list that can counter reliably most of the time if the circumstance is given.

Bair in my experience is definitely a ***. It is my favorite move to use on the Nado, and works wonders whether if it's aerial or not.

MK's N-air and Shuttle Loop don't beat Mach Tornado.

The Nair is used overtop. Shuttle Loop definitely beats the Tornado. Both variants do.

 

[Mmac]

You forgot Yoshi's Usmash and Nair (from the top) Ulevo. They do work.

Also I think his Eggs are very effective. I never seen it fail to break it once yet

 

[Affinity]

The Nair is used overtop.

Anything beats Mach Tornado through the top. It doesn't really make sense for N-air to be in the list.

Shuttle Loop definitely beats the Tornado. Both variants do.

Since when??

You'll notice in MK mirrors that both MK's will recover a lot of the time with Mach Tornado. Why? Because Shuttle Loop does not beat it.

 

[Ulevo]

Anything beats Mach Tornado through the top. It doesn't really make sense for N-air to be in the list.


Since when??

You'll notice in MK mirrors that both MK's will recover a lot of the time with Mach Tornado. Why? Because Shuttle Loop does not beat it.

Some attacks are significantly harder to use from the top, and some have much more valuable use from the top as well. Nair is fairly easy to use, and unlike Dair, it actually KO's. That's why I listed it. You will almost never see a Marth Dair a MK out of Tornado because of how difficult it is.

This is a list of answers to the tornado that work sufficiently well. I don't care how common sense you think it is or isn't.

Also, I don't know if you want video proof or what, but both variants beat the Tornado flat out. You need to time it, but due to the hitbox and speed of Shuttle Loop, it isn't difficult at all to pull off. Try it yourself in training if you have doubts rather than giving me your assumptions on player strategies.

By the way, I don't know what Meta Knights you've been watching, but using Tornado to recover in a ditto is suicide, unless enjoy eating Fair, DSmash, Shuttle Loop, et cetera.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

Yeah, I had stopped updating my own threads. You may use any of the information I had in my thread, such as the diagram and/or explanation if you like. You might mention how the tornado gains priority if you rapidly press B, and loses priority near the finish.

 

[cj.Shark]

as great as this thread sounds. most metas i play nado out of a spotdodge nd in close combat t keep distance. it reaaly limits what you can do especially if they catch you barely off the ground.

 

[Ref]

Ness' Down smash beats the tornado. You must hit meta knight with the back hit meaning down smash facing away from Meta knight. No charging needed. It'll hit meta knight if you spaced right.

The up smash doesn't.

 

[Tenki]

Sonic moves, blhblah

I've had everything from dash attack, to F-tilt, F-air, and B-air clang with and cancel grounded tornados, but they all seemed pretty weird on timing/placement.

You have F-smash as a 3-star, however, it doesn't work if MK spaces so that he's above Sonic. D-smash works too against grounded Tornado too, except it's better defensively since it lasts a little longer than F-smash and has little ending lag.

You have Spin charge/spindash as a 3-star, but even against grounded tornado, it can get caught inside the attack sometimes, and again, a rising tornado will just eat it.

Other not-so-popular options
Grounded spring* (cancels it if MK makes contact with the spring platform while doing a rising tornado)
ASC ** [Aerial Spin Charge] has 1 sec startup lag, but you can control its float or jump cancel it `.`; leads to aerial combos if it connects, which is always a plus.
N-air ** With double jumps/spring, fastfall N-air has decent knockback to keep MK out of the way after breaking the Tornado, and relatively low ending lag.
F-air * sometimes clangs with / breaks tornadoes. Other times, clangs with and tornado's attack speed beats F-air.
B-air * Slow startup, but it's either in or not.
Homing attack* Depends on his movement, I guess. Homing Attack isn't very accurate, so I personally don't use it against Tornado.

It's alot harder to break aerial/rising tornado.

Summary:

my color coding `.`;
[] Only works on grounded/low tornados
[] Well-placed aerially

D-air***
Falling spring***
ASC **
N-air **
F-smash**
D-smash**
Spin Charge *
Homing Attack*.

 

[bludhoundz]

I believe that both variations of Diddy's b forward move can override or cancel out the tornado.

 

[Affinity]

Also, I don't know if you want video proof or what, but both variants beat the Tornado flat out. You need to time it, but due to the hitbox and speed of Shuttle Loop, it isn't difficult at all to pull off. Try it yourself in training if you have doubts rather than giving me your assumptions on player strategies.

Then why does Mach Tornado beat Shuttle Loop here at 1:05 and 1:50?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29EnQwF4Cqk

 

[Adapt]

Then why does Mach Tornado beat Shuttle Loop here at 1:05 and 1:50?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29EnQwF4Cqk

both instances the shuttle loop hit at the apex of the loop...
that is the weakest hitbox of the shuttle loop, try at the beginning hitbox and come back with results

 

[Percon]

Kirby's stone doesn't go through the tornado. And if it does, it's not a 3. My stone usually goes right through but doesn't do anything.