DK: 101 A primer for newcomers.

[Fawriel]

Ah, this thread is music to my ears. I couldn't believe it when I heard that DK was actually nerfed. In my humble opinion, he had a HORRIBLE move design in Melee... I know he was in the middle of the road in terms of fighting prowess, but comparing the range and effectiveness and everything of his moves to many other characters, it's absolutely ridiculous. He's a frikkin two-ton GORILLA! And he's a two-ton gorilla who deserves some respect!


Well, keep up the good work, people.
Chase your dream of a world in which some random chimp in a red shirt does not prevail over a giant gorilla with an actual significant history in video gaming!

Spoiler

Okay, that's just my dream, but still!

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

I can attest to the fact that Kyle's DK is beastly. I can see him being one of the best DK's in the world if he keeps up his game!

Best in the world is over the top, but I do appreciate the compliment.

I've taken Around 20 match's from VOB to AVI files. I'm in the process of Clipping,resizing and renaming each AVI file. So far, 1 of 20. After this, Youtube uploads are ready.

Done-
All VOB to AVI

To Do-
Treat AVI's 19/20
Upload all AVI's

Kyle

 

[Mccdbz5]

Can you give us a link to your YouTube channel? Just in case you've got them uploaded, but you're not on here at the time to let us know. By the way, what time do you think you'll have the videos uploaded by? Just wondering.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

UPDATES-


Done-
All VOB to AVI

To Do-
Treat AVI's 4/20
Upload all AVI's

All vids should be up Sunday. As I am out of town until than. Valentines day and a Snowboarding trip for me. .

Kyle

 

[NJzFinest]

ATTENTION, I PLAYED DK IN BRAWL

From what I experienced, DK seems to be very solid in Brawl.
Almost all of this throws seem to be useless (like most of the others now) except his strong back throw.
His donkey punch ISN'T THAT BAD! It still kills well, has good priority, and has "enough" range.
Speaking of range, his back air is GODLY. Good range and priority. Perfect for approaches; keep in mind you can now run forward, hold back, jump, and go forward while facing backwards. This means DK has a new level for back air spamming. Keep in mind that Brawl is more about spacing and spamming now, this good news for DK.
I couldn't get any up air combos....but I did get kills with it around 100%ish near to upper corners of stages. It seems to be more of a killing move now.
His up B seems to be just as solid as before...just a little more lag on landing though. Oh, and I actually suicided with it since I wasn't aware of the fact I can go across entire stages with it off the side now.
Fair and Nair seem to work the same. I think Nair has a better hitbox now, not to sure. Wasn't much of a Nair user in melee.

Next time I play, I'll try out his down b and forward b moves and see if I can find any combos besides Bair to Bair >_<

OOO, and vids!

Yeah, I'll just add this here.

 

[eggs-on-toast]

Hey I have a quick question, does DK have any spiking moves, and are they good oh and will it be much longer for them vids, thanks.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Hey I have a quick question, does DK have any spiking moves, and are they good oh and will it be much longer for them vids, thanks.

DK Spikes are dominant.
Fair late spikes HARD
Dair spikes HARD
sideB spikes HARD.

Vids in a few hours. Guyz
Kyle~

 

[Fawriel]

Don't forget the distinction between spikes and meteors. Spikes cannot be meteor-canceled... I don't even know if they returned in Brawl at all.
Didn't someone say that DK's dair is a real spike? And if that's true, what about the other two?

 

[Ripple]

I hope this works but if someone could test it out that would be great

Bair(weakened)>bair> double jump bair> up B. if this works dk would be very good at killing since the bair sets up

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

I do believe they are all spikes instead of Meteors. Their solution is like... exponential recovery, A 10% Spike can be upB in time to return, Jumped or an aerial move will come out, contrasted to a 60% hit where they plunge below for an instant KO.

I will say this, his Knockdown power "Downward force" is significantly weaker with sideB as it is for Fair and Dair. This is very understandable as Fair and Dair have more recovery & sideB can be executed with both feet planted on stage.

Uploading Youtube as we speek.


@Ripple- I haven't tested the outage potential of DK's upB, as it was mostly implemented in Melee Uair combos. This is first to do on my to-do list. Thanks for the suggestion.



Plenty more to come, it's just that, each file is between 50-80 MB and it takes so long to upload to Youtube.

Ben@MSU (Yoshi) vs Jonathan_Meadows (Diddy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuvrPqlPqZk

Wellman (ZSS) vs Kyle (DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2lgqLnBcFM

Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdhTVf3HPI

Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMy3LrWQWJE

TheSlyMoogle (Fox) vs Som (IC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrdcEZl1dLE

Som (IC) vs Jonathan_Meadows (Diddy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxRXPa7WMRg

Jonathan_Meadows (Diddy) vs Som (Zelda) GRANDFINALS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIBGLXBLc70

Jais (Snake) vs Som (Zelda)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHZFr3FUhMU

Ben@MSU (Yoshi) vs Som (Metaknight) SEMIFINAL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSO7YBzNBe0

TheSlyMoogle (Olimar) vs Andy@MSU (Pikachu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a_Ok-4qxPQ

TheSlyMoogle (Olimar) vs Ben@MSU (Yoshi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfXy9uG2fPs

Jais (Snake) vs TheSlyMoogle (Olimar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKtZKnRugd0

Brando2021 (Lucas) vs Ben@MSU (Yoshi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aifif12sjxo

Ryan@MSU (Bowser) vs TheSlyMoogle (Olimar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmzOGYjxRP4

Ryan@MSU (Mario) vs Ben@MSU (Yoshi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DakDF-3caY8




Things to note with my DK matches:

Wellman (ZSS) vs Kyle (DK)
0:56- Donkey Punch missed because of elevation NOT range behind DK.
1: 02-I need more Usmash to replace Uair, Turn around NeutralB tricks
1:17- Dtilt DIDN'T knockdown
1:35- Turn around NeutralB tricks
1:48- Ledge tricks
2: 08-I need more Usmash to replace Uair
2:16- Ledge tricks

Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK)
0:35- No invulnerability on Usmash
1:18- upB does have a sweetspot
1:21- Was that invulnerability on upB or did IC bair just miss?!?
1:38- upB recovery trick
In general I use a lot of Dsmash and downB but these moves are effective against the IC's.

Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK)2
1:16- Dtilt trips
In general I made very bad decisions on how to get in... I got *****.

 

[Pacness]

^ finally, and im surprised, ur probably the best brawl DK ive seen yet

 

[Pistbag]

When I played I couldn't move backwards with his up b =/ it only went forward.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

For the record, there are NO melee matches of me on Youtube. this is NOT me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUEmtFywaZQ&feature=related

My matches will be hosted by/through TenkaiGear.

 

[NJzFinest]

^ finally, and im surprised, ur probably the best brawl DK ive seen yet

I'll fix that

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Thanks for the compliment, but my DK is WEAK right now, I don't even own Brawl yet and I still have MUCH to learn. Additionally, my post count is nothing compared to "NJzFinest" LOLZ.

 

[Pacness]

Thanks for the compliment, but my DK is WEAK right now, I don't even own Brawl yet and I still have MUCH to learn. Additionally, my post count is nothing compared to "NJzFinest" LOLZ.

well yeah, ur DK's still better than the other other 5 i've seen

 

[NJzFinest]

Thanks for the compliment, but my DK is WEAK right now, I don't even own Brawl yet and I still have MUCH to learn. Additionally, my post count is nothing compared to "NJzFinest" LOLZ.

Yeah, I brag about my post count all the time....

My join date says it's back in 2004, which creates a lot of time for posts, but actually, that's a misprint; I joined yesterday.

It's not like I play DK competitively in Melee (after learning from Bum) and play experienced players <_<


(I lied)

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Yeah, I brag about my post count all the time....

My join date says it's back in 2004, which creates a lot of time for posts, but actually, that's a misprint; I joined yesterday.

It's not like I play DK competitively in Melee (after learning from Bum) and play experienced players <_<


(I lied)

NJ- It's all cool brother, my comment was directed at the idea that post count doesn't reflect skill. The fact that you played Melee with a good competitive scene and learned from established players (Bum) is what contributes to your awesomeness with DK. I agree with your statements, you don't gloat.

It's hard to mildly suggest idea's through a forum without insinuating something else... I'll try a smiley next time so I don't come off so rude.

 

[NJzFinest]

Lol, I actually do the same exact thing in my posts

But yeah, keep on coming with those DK impressions and vids. I'm only able to play Brawl about once a week

You stated Mexican in your first post...hmmm. Are you aware of his Giant Punch spamming style of DK? If you could, try to apply that style as much as possible into the Brawl DK and see if it's still effective. That's what I want to try out next time I get to play >.>

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

I do concentrate on always having a DK punch stocked, but I should really prioritize it more, as just having that option will force my opponent to play differently.

 

[eggs-on-toast]

Hey thanks for the vids, that was some amazing DK footage but i'm wondering what were the ledge tricks in the ZSS match and what are they for also are DK grabs bad or did you just not use much (I usually use them in melee but i'm a casual noob )

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Ledge tricks are there to demonstrate recovery on aerial moves while grabbing ledge, hence, making getting back on stage easier because DK now has more options.

Throws aren't NEARLY as effective as Melee. Generally you can punish with other things now and throws should only be used when your opponent is actually guarding.

 

[eggs-on-toast]

Ledge tricks are there to demonstrate recovery on aerial moves while grabbing ledge, hence, making getting back on stage easier because DK now has more options.

Throws aren't NEARLY as effective as Melee. Generally you can punish with other things now and throws should only be used when your opponent is actually guarding.

Ahh I see thanks a lot, overall would you say DK is better or worse or do you still need time to experiment. Oh, also are you going to be uploading anymore DK vids soon? Thanks.

 

[NJzFinest]

Ahh I see thanks a lot, overall would you say DK is better or worse or do you still need time to experiment. Oh, also are you going to be uploading anymore DK vids soon? Thanks.

I can already see the answer to that. It's way to early to tell if DK is better or not, especially since people, including our top players, are still learning...and there's so much more to lean. I'd say in at least a year, we will get signs to see if he's better than his Melee version or not.
At least for now, no one can really answer that. Sure, DK has amazing combos and speed in Melee, but that's because the game, Melee, itself allows that to be possible. In Brawl, DK seems to be lacking in combos and doesn't have his old speed, but again, that's because of the game, Brawl, itself. Also, we must keep in mind, that if a Tier list was to be made now for Melee for 2008, DK would not be in Low Tier. No just my opinion, but also the opinion of players such as Eggm, Chillindude, and Mew2King.

From what I've experienced playing DK in Brawl, I think he's going to be slightly better because Brawl seems to revolve more around spamming and spacing moves, which he already seems to be good at.

 

[eggs-on-toast]

OK I thought it was too early but I just wanted to see initial impressions at least you can tell he looks cooler lol

 

[NJzFinest]

Yeah, he's alot of fun. You'll definitely get a blast out of playing him once you get your hands on this game ^_^


...I just wish he was more popular <_<

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Great reply NJfinest, it's a new game... we're still learning it.
There will be more DK vids, but they need to be recorded and crap, although, once they are recorded, expect them much faster because it won't be vids for a whole tourney, just DK stuff.

I would like to add, there are still vids i'm uploading on youtube today, especially of Olimar and Yoshi. Check back with my original post as I've been updating it often.

 

[eggs-on-toast]

Yoshi vids, it's as if you've looked at my sig of my favorites/mains and making vidoes with them in it but seriously if your doing more vids can we have a link to your youtube channel, please? Thanks.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Here is the account name, I think this is what you are refering to. Add tenKaiGear to your buddies or whatever and I think it updates you when new stuff is uploaded.


http://www.youtube.com/user/TenKaiGear

 

[NJzFinest]

I love what Kyle is doing for the overlooked DK community Keep it up.

*subscribes to youtube account*

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

I had a GREAT session where MUCH was learned, Lets' do this.

- Vids coming in a few hours (Yoshi and Olimar) no DK ATM.

- upB is AMAZING. Here's the low down, because this move NEEDS to be in EVERYONES DK game.

On the ground it has INVULNERABILITY frames on start-up, this is the BIGGEST invulnerability window DK has, it's now as effective as Bowser fortress with Invulnerable start-up, the window is the whole entire time his elbow is raised before it's active, BUT, additionally, there is a small window after invulnerability, and before it's active where you can STILL be hit out of the move. This means that upB is very effective againt single strike moves (IKE COUGH COUGH) and not multi stuff like most Dsmashes. on ground, the trajectory is enough to be safe on guard but don't expect much horizontal movement, it only has enough. Finally, the grounded version has AMAZING almost instant recovery, while the last hit has the most knockback of the entire move.

In the Air upB lost the amazing sweetspot that used to combo from Uairs. BUT, the whole start-up in the air is INVINCIBLE, not invulnerable, but INVINCIBLE! Now we have realistic mid damage Uair combos! Get this, if you Uair than jump for a follow up Uair, you can expect to get sexied out of your next Uair, or they air dodge and you've lost your offense. Now, proceeding a Uair, DK jumps than goes into upB. if they sex or attack, the invincibility of DK wins: if they air dodge, DK upB is active for so long that you still hit them. the ONLY otion they have is to jump. Ba bu bah bum ba, I'm loviong it.

-Dtilt knocks down based on weight class Bowser can be tripped from 20-35% and IC @0-13%. Additionally, a triped opponent can be comboed with 2 options. For comparision i'm using a 0% IC basis.

I- Dtilt, sideB,AA 26%
II- Dtilt, Fsmash 25%

-Wall teching from combos is easily done by holding down a shoulder button, BUT, I B-toss Som and he "Wall teched" off of a horizontal platform on battlefield and forced his movement completely horizontal, instant KO.

-If DK Dsmashes while opponent is hanging on ledge, it's a 45degree spike, it will not launch vertical. MMMMMmm nice.

-I found a Uair combo set-up on fast fallers, Grab, cargo, ascending Ftoss from crago, Uair, jump, upB. Tasty ehe.

This sit-down was amazsing, i honestly thought we had DK fully figured out, I am happily wrong,

Kyle~

 

[NJzFinest]

Nice finds Kyle.

However, one thing. For those who don't know, Donkey Kong's Up B always had invincibility frames, including Smash64. For Melee, it was during the first 2 frames of doing it, basically when he swings his arm back, he is invincible.
Also, Uair to Up B combos were also in Melee. Mexican once stated that it's very effective against Marth and a number of other characters, then I began using it myself since it works well (In melee, DK can combo Marth from 0 to 45 with a cargo up throw, Uair, UpB).

HOWEVER, I'M GLAD TO SEE THIS IS STILL USEFUL IN BRAWL, THANKS SO MUCH. Also, I HAVE to try that fast faller combo, it looks to be so sweet. Record some of that sweet ownage when you get the chance ^_^

 

[Ripple]

did you find out if my combo is even possible Kyle?

@ NJF: nice avatar, do you play magic?

 

[Som]

I'm loving Dk new down air ! you can di it its fast and you can actually ascent when doing it ! looks like the hottest Spike I've seen in brawl so far. Also kyle have you tried his other spiking arieal (forward air I bealive) it might be useful if you fast fall into it (ie Samus melee spike style). Guys Donkey is amazing at keeping people of the stage from coming back (back air, d-air spike, and f-air spike plus more

 

[NJzFinest]

did you find out if my combo is even possible Kyle?

@ NJF: nice avatar, do you play magic?

Nah, I don't play. But Akroma is like, my friends favorite card lol. I'm thinking about picking the game up eventually...if I get bored of Melee and Brawl

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

did you find out if my combo is even possible Kyle?

@ NJF: nice avatar, do you play magic?

your combo suggestion... hmmm, the more I try and think about it, I find it much more reliable to do Bair ,Bair jump, upB. Which, is only 1 less hit and MUCH more reliable.

@NJ'sfinest- I knew that about Melee, but the start up I feel is much slower in Brawl and the invincibility is STILL until start up. =) Much greater than 2 frames...assuming the game runs @ 60 FPS I would easily say 10 frames on invincibility. AMAZING

 

[NJzFinest]

!!!!!!!

Kong 2 strong???

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Dear soldiers,
Well, I have nothing in mind to try today, so suggestions please, additionally, Tuesday are ROUGH with classes... i probably won't touch this until Wednesday.

-All vids uploaded

-I was happy to get a PM, I speculated it was in replies to my remarks towards mods and the crappy threads around here... it was spam... some guy like HEY JOIN MY FORUMS... Hmmm NO!
It's like these mods are elites you can't speak to... if this were dustloop.com you betyourass there would be replys.

Kyle~

 

[EastCoastEddie]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but with Running shield grabs, DK has great potential for chainthrowing people with the downthrow. You may want to try that although I think it can be DI'd out of if they DI up. Nevertheless it is worth trying on a variety of characters. I've been able to do it to Pit, Charizard, and Metaknight. Although, like I said, I think they can DI it up to get out.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

It's not a chain throw, as it doesn't combo, anyone can jump to escape at any %... unfortunately, it only works from low till mid damage, which in this case I focus on forcing trip and comboing for guranteed damage. But, YES, Dtoss, running, Dtoss can be effective.

About Shield-toss technique, I would like to clarify and tell everyone, the effect is identical to jump-grab in Melee, except the shield has to actually come out for a few frames. Pivot throw has a new animation and technically a larger grab... but I haven't found a great use for it yet.

About Lag canceling or the lack there of, I've tried different stuff and only found a few things worth mentioning.

- Every aeriel has it's own unique landing recovery animation if you land before the move COMPLETELY finishes, you have to go through this additional landing recovery.

- As discussed, there is a recovery trick on aeriel upB, if DK lands right as DK loses his active hitboxes.

- There are a few frames on Bair, where the move can be activated, but not active, land, and have NO additional recovery... weird. Like the first 4 frames or something.

- This DOES NOT include aeriel B moves as they have no additional landing recovery, only their original intended recovery.

-Because the landing recovery on Dair is SO BAD there has been numerous times where I have parry'd then punished with a reverse short hop, Dair, only for my opponent to recover and punish me before I recover, this is best at high%'s NOT mid %'s.