DK: 101 A primer for newcomers.

[NJzFinest]

Then again, I'm acting like DK is guaranteed to suck again, and I'm not so sure about that.

You're a fool if you think DK sucks in Melee.
If another Melee Tier List was to be made now, DK would be High or at least Mid Tier.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

This is what I referenced to state invulnerability NO damage.

@1:53
SSBB: Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6knqBrlyd4M


Unless... it just so happened to pull my hit box far enough back to avoid their attack.



UPDATES-

I was wrong, my first example actually pulled my hit box away. Sorry guys, Invulnerability is the wrong term than. This is called Super-Armor in Guilty Gear.

@1:00
SSBB: Kyle (DK) vs Jonathan_Meadows (Diddy)2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yumVGfyxi5A

DK takes FULL damage, the only scaling done is by proration of abused moves.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

I just owned a Diddy vs DK thread, now it's EVERYONE else's turn.
I want to see a post from Boo, Ripple, NJfinest, VersatileBJN, DK Punch, The Don, Brahman, Dust, nokonoko and anyone else who reads this thread.

It's here

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141348


I posted this:

RunningA, Fair
Breaking news: New Sheik confirmed
B**** Kong is Diddy


Three spikes, Donkey Punch
Invulnerability
Strong Kong is monkey



DK > Diddy
Haiku OWNED!


Seriously, you guys talk about Diddy's "Combo potential" & Awesome "Projectile game".

NEWS FLASH- that awesome combo is the same stupid S*** Shiek was doing in Melee. Your projectile gives you what... oh yeah. RunnigA, Fair combo. LOLZ @ scrub shieks.

 

[Ripple]

does diddy wear a tie? NO, D.K. does; you know why? its because its d.k.'s job to kick *** in this game. even d.k.'s dash attack is him kicking your *** when he hits you, what's diddy's, a cartwheel thing? can you say HOMOSEXUAL

/fail thread

dk>diddy

this is what I had to say

 

[TheSpoon]

I don't think DK would appreciate you bashing his little buddy.

 

[Dust319]

I don't think DK would appreciate you bashing his little buddy.

Yeah, I agree. I really don't hate Diddy. That's why I gave a reasonably intelligent answer on that thread. I like Diddy for who he is (another DKC rep), but I doubt I'll enjoy him as a Smash character. Sonic, on the other hand, is starting to look pretty good (as a second mind you, don't flame me).

 

[VersatileBJN]

haha i posted

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Don't get me wrong guys. I was & still am very happy B**** monkey is in the game. DK series rocks, Dixie would be amazing. I was just severely disappointed when I finally played as Diddy, no joke, he plays like scrub Shiek. No L cancels, RunningA, USmash, Fair ALL DAY LONG. His Running A is safe on guard and Parry, He doesn't go through his opponent but his recovery is outstanding. The only redeeming quality he has compared to shiek is Banana's < Needles, But don't forget, if he HITS you with a Banana, he gets a FREE runningA, Usmash, Fair combo.


VersitileBNJ you were supposed to S***-talk Donkey>Diddy... but thanks for the compliment lol.


This may sound weird, but we're making friends through this. Additionally, who better for DK players to befriend than a little chimp players?!?


I would like to discuss a technique that makes me very happy about Brawl. Rule of thumb in Brawl says everyone will always sweet-spot the ledge or die. The amount of air control Directional Influence and upB trajectories are so good that anyone who hasn't been killed off screen will always sweet-spot the ledge. This is very different to Melee, as there were times you could be KO'd because you couldn't make it back to the ledge BUT you were not killed off the side. I loved this aspect of the game as edge guarding was HUGE. So, in brawl there was little edge guarding. It's been brought to my attention that people can air dodge towards the stage as soon as possible to prolong themselves from side kills, but this gimps your recovery and puts a greater emphasis on Edge guarding back into the game. I love it. This is for real guys, A lightweight IC was survivinv fully charged Fsmash's from Link @ !40%.

-Still looking into trip specific information.

 

[Brahma]

So you airdodge as soon as possible after being hit? Wouldn't your momentum just keep you going in the same direction during AD? How would you AD towards the stage?

Also, what taunt buttons do which taunt?

I'm definitely picking up Diddy as well, and of course looking for a Diddy partner for the BEST DKC TEAM EVER!

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Well, during Air dodge you have VERY SLIGHT DI abilities, but most importantly, this technique devalues your momentum, not your direction.

Taunts-

Utaunt= AMAZING beats his chest like an APE should. Best taunt ev'a
Ftaunt= Shakes his head like a wet dog... looks funny. It's a good taunt.
Dtaunt=Gives the "WTF just happened, I DUNNO Batman" look. Love it.





UPDATES-
My Friend (Som) got back with me on the specs regarding dtilt. Let's do this.

- Diminishing damage does not affect the ability to trip.

-Clean-hit significant;y raises the success rate of forcing opponent into combo-able trip.

-Counter-hit significantly raises the success rate of forcing opponent into combo-able trip.

-Forcing trip is not Guaranteed, but the chances are definitely in your favor. I was told 70%-90%



This makes me really excited guys.
Strong Kong is Monkey

 

[Ripple]

I syill don't know what you mean by counter hit

 

[Nokonoko]

Hmm. Is a counter-hit perhaps an attack that hits the opponent to stop them from hitting you?

I don’t really have anything to add, other than that I’m interested in all info. Um. So does that mean the old “Uh-ROO” taunt is gone now? XD

 

[VersatileBJN]

DK is gonna be so dope. I' m not maining him(Ike/Marth main here), but he is looking like somone that I will be ableto use and compete at a decent level.

Counter hit is when you hit someobody while they are attacking and your move wins out. In most fighting games, hitting somebody on counter hit increases damage done or changes the properties of a move completely.

Things I am worried about with DK are his range and start up animation on moves. I could see characters who can keep him out like Marth, Ike, Lucas and Link giving him problems.

Whats the word on DK's jab combo, AA? I saw Kyle said it could KO/

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Clean-hit = Is hitting a move at it's optimal range. Giving the most advantage it can. I believe it's called the "Sweet spot" around here.

Counter-hit = Getting attacked out of start-up frames before a move is active.

About my terms... I play Guilty Gear/3S extensively so.. yeah.

 

[Brahma]

Well, during Air dodge you have VERY SLIGHT DI abilities, but most importantly, this technique devalues your momentum, not your direction.

Could you provide more details on this or a link to more info? This looks very interesting.

What is the clean-hit/sweetspot range on d-tilt? Is it right where DK's hand is or what? Also, can't they immediately roll/getup attack out of trip?

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

In an effort to organize my thoughts and further explain things to everyone I've decided to write up a "DK 101: A Primer for Newcomers" Besides attack descriptions and applications there lots of content to cover. What I'll do is rename the thread and update the first post. Work in progress, but it will be done in a few days. Additionally, I would like to say, this guide can and should be used as a skeleton/update-able format for anyone else who would like to further develop the content once the Game is released and the community has a tighter grip on DK.


UPDATES-
I've been busy.
Updated header.
=)

 

[Gkryptonite]

Wow, when I first heard about DK all I heard was: Up Air does not combo as well anymore, Bair isn't as good to spam. I was like WHAT, DK HAS NOTHING THEN!

Great thing doing this guys,

but I do miss DK ****** fox with a single grab...

 

[eggs-on-toast]

Hey excellent new format and very usefull thanks for it. I'm glad side B is now a useable move but i have 2 questions; what is his best spike and is side B easy to use in DK's game.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Spikes are situational. All are applicable. Techniquly sideB is the safest because you are still on stage.

SideB is not easy to use as the start-up is ridiculous, but when someone misses an upB or somethign with crap lag, you bet your *** DK will use sideB to punish.

However, SideB is safe on guard and does crush shield.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

The guys I play with have a habit of Air dodging as they descend to avoid getting hit. If you wait until too late to attack they air dodge than touch ground and have instant recovery... we don't want that. I jump at them EARLY and force them to make a decision/action. Usually I do Uair, when they spot dodge through me I Fast Fall a Nair to knock them off platform and possibly KO. This is an effective punish. If they do something weird to avoid Uair, like Diddy's sideB or something, You recover pretty quick and still have another jump to Bair them or Uair for the same tactic, you know, DK Uair, they air dodge, than you Fast Fall a Nair. BLAM b****es.



UPDATE-
While looking into advanced tech's. Air Momemtum Canceling has been debunked apparently, Sorry guys. I am learning this as much as anyone else.

While looking into the awesomeness of runnignA, Usmash. I wonder if this would be the optimal follow-up for maximizing damage from a trip.

Dtilt, Trip, RunningA, Usmash.

I'll try to test this out, unless someone gets to it first.

 

[Ripple]

can you test how DK plays if he doesn't always run so much? with the new down b buffed, I play on using that quite alot and since you can't cancel your dash anymore by crouching, I was wondering about an almost never running dk. this also lets you play more control and ranged with his tilts.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Defensive DK huh. I believe this strategy is moist effective during certain match-ups. Particially people who can not Zone you. which is... only a few lol.

UPADTE-
Tonight I will try

-Dtilt, trip, runnignA, Usmash.
-Parry, DK Punch. I'm curious about the effectiveness.

 

[VersatileBJN]

When in general do moves cause tripping?

Looking forward to testing this out for many other than DK.

 

[VersatileBJN]

It's so annoying to see DK players constantly trying to follow up a back air or any kind of pop up with a fair. It's slow, and the opponent will always air dodge.

Why not use up B? Multiple hits so it will beat out air dodges, and it has invincible frames on start up right?

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

It's so annoying to see DK players constantly trying to follow up a back air or any kind of pop up with a fair. It's slow, and the opponent will always air dodge.

Why not use up B? Multiple hits so it will beat out air dodges, and it has invincible frames on start up right?

Your a smart man.

@tripping- I've read somewhere about moves attacking the feet will cause tripping like ness/lucas Dtilt or something.... I just know DK's Dtilt does. lol


So, I tried for 20mins with DXL canceling, Here's what's worth mentioning.

-Snake is EASY, runnignA, Usmash. Just frame input but a big window so it's easy.
-Falco is EASY, runnignA, Usmash. Just frame input but a big window so it's easy.
-DK can not cancel his runningA into Usmash, Fsmash, Dsmash, Jump, Ftilt, Dtilt, or grab.
-Apparently RunningA is just one example as there are hidden DXL cancels all over the game.

De-Bunked = Dtilt, trip, runningA, Usmash.


Additionally, one can cancel a fox trot into Usmash, by simply inputting side, N, UcStick. This is a great Anti-air.

 

[NJzFinest]

Guys....
do Power Shield to Giant Punch...

..it's so cool ^_^

 

[VersatileBJN]

I don't think I ever thought in my wildest dreams I'd be this hyped to play DK.

Good stuff Kyle.

Can you post some other DLXs you found throughout your studies? I'm going to be playing many characters so I bet a bunch of your findings will help me out.

Falco is going to be my secondary, so dash A to p smash is music to my ears.

Anything on my dual mains, Ike and Marth? Ness? Lucas? Luigi? Falcon? Lucario? Samus?

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

NJ's Finest- I forget to mention in my post a few mins ago. Thanks for the reminder.

-Parry, Donkey Punch is pretty reliable
-DK punch comes out faster than sideB
-This will annihilate Snake/Gagon/Bowser/Charizard...


"Can you post some other DLXs you found throughout your studies? I'm going to be playing many characters so I bet a bunch of your findings will help me out."

There needs to be a thread on this one... maybe there already is.

 

[NJzFinest]

Kyle, you should mention how DK is now able to do 2 Bairs in one short hop.

Also....Up B stalling :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHxqAiUP6Xc

Good example by Bum ^^

 

[VersatileBJN]

True that Kyle. I think I saw a topic on tactical discussion board.

NJ, do you know where this weekly was held? Silven told me web2zone has weeklies a lot. Is that where Bum and them were?

 

[Ripple]

can you tell me whether or not down B can hit opponents on the ledge or not?

also: Bum sucks

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

downB hit's opponents on ledge after there invincibility runs out... I think.

However, I will say this, Dtilt and Dsmash both hit opponent on ledge and knock back/down compared to the knockback of downB just lifting them. I'll verify tomorrow guys.

I'll include a tricks section in the guide and Talk about upB stalling. Thats effective and really dirty guys. Disjointed hit box above DK, a ledge to grab right there, Your invincible in FFA's.

 

[NJzFinest]

also: Bum sucks

Good joke

 

[VersatileBJN]

"NJsFinest, do you know where this weekly was held? Silven told me web2zone has weeklies a lot. Is that where Bum and them were?"


NJ ANSWER ME!

 

[NJzFinest]

Oh, I have no clue lol, I just randomly found the videos after VanZ told me Bum was playing Brawl.

 

[Cancel]

I want to play against bum and beat him -_-

 

[NJzFinest]

I want to play against bum and beat him -_-

"I want to play against bum and *try to* beat him -_-"

 

[Jonathan_Meadows]

I'd like to play against bum myself with my Diddy!

 

[goodkid]

I'm glad DK is buffed and will be good in Brawl. His range and ko potential is really good in this game.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Updated Header-

I really like battlefield, no matter where you start aerial upB, it seems there is ALWAYS a platform to get the recovery trick.