DK: 101 A primer for newcomers.

[Kyle_Wattula]

Yeah, I'll double post to get attention. If NJ'sfinest or I had 20 mins of MOD time, this place would be epic!

Merge "Nobody likes DK" & "DK Love Hate thread" & "Insade downB" THAN rename it to, "DK: General Discussion"

Merge all video threads into one named "DK: Videos"

Start an updated "DK: Competition map"

Some threads are good though, "DK: ally potential" & "DK: Perfect Final Smash"

...Delete a bunch of EVERYTHING.

 

[King Kong]

DK is great fun in Brawl.

There is lots of combo potential to be had, and he seems to hold his own agianst the rest of the cast, but its far too early to really tell.

Gotta love short jump double back air into grab, looks sexy.

Also, the cargo F-throw offstage is a great setup.

U-air is AWSOME on so many levels.

Im surprised at how usable DK's smash attacks are. They are all great kill moves with solid range, an uncharged U-smash kills almost the whole cast below 100% on some stages.

I find im using the N-air a lot more too, it comes out very quickly and has good priority.

And the Up-B off the edge is still a good technique, though it often seems that you can be knocked out of it more easily now.

And how ****ing good is DK's recovery? Its pretty great, but people are already finding ways to gimp it which sucks.

Not so impressed by DK in team matches though Maybe I just need more practise at it.

Peace out

 

[J.L]

There was this thread where they showed videos of lvl 9 computers fight each other. I saw one with DK, and he always powershields hits to get less hit stun, and immediately follows it up with his side b (headbutt) into another hit. I think powershielding will become very important in general, but I believe DK can utilize this much more than most other characters. Just my observation...

 

[NJzFinest]

....? Lvl 9 computers powershield alot in Melee >_>

It just seems that they made level 9 computers similar in Brawl.
Powershielding was used only by a few players in Melee, and I'm assuming it's going to stay that way in Brawl since it still has the same level of difficulty.

 

[J.L]

actually I hear powershielding, quoted from m2k is "10 times easier" than it was in melee.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Power shielding, IF it's Parring, Very easy to do. If I am talking about something different than I just look like a noob.

Also, I have yet to find a move that can be powershield'd than successfully followed by a sideB. MAYBE DK's Dair... iono.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Dear Kong family (LOL),

Great news, I recorded 33 matches, and we selected the ones that were entertaining/awesome to watch, I am happy to say that I currently have

10 New match videos, 8 include DK.

Additionally, they are a a plethora of instances where I implimentd heavy armor, successfuil ledge tricks, dtilt combos and spikes. Cargo throw Uair?!?!? mmmmm, DK vs IC, & DK vs Diddy

You guy are gonna love this****.

Here's the lowdown, I have already ripped ALL files to AVI, I have already clipped. resized and renamed all files, the only thing left to do is upload to Youtube, PLUS, my 3 o'clock class is canceled today. Expect all files by tonight.

I will update the video archive thread. =)

Kyle~

 

[NJzFinest]

Thanks man, I look forward to seeing them.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

All videos up.

I got ***** in"Kyle (DK) vs Jonathan_Meadows (Diddy)"

I did Ripple combo and got a sweet KO at the end of "Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 6". All credit to ripple lol.

Hope everyone likes it.

Kyle~



UPDATES-

After analyzing my offense/defense I see what thing to be addressed.

-Earlier I needed less Uair and more Usmash, but now I'm at the point of too much Usmash and not enough Fsmash. lol

-I need more downB to beat out rolls, spot dodges and runningA's. downB also beats most ledge recovers except Jump, obviously.

-As I have learned about the awesomeness of Aeriel upB. I need to implement the landing recovery trick more.

-I've integrated Grounded upB into my game, but not enough.

-Against Diddy, I need more runnginA to pick up Banana's.

-I want sideB to be in my game but I haven't found out where it goes, except for the easy ledge guard stuff. *Pondering*

Kyle~








UPDATES-

That's it on the video department for a while, I've got some other stuff to do, like GF's birthday and order Sanwa buttons for my stick... Class work... gag.

MOD'S HELLO?!? HELLO?!? HELLO?!?

*Echo


*Echo

 

[Nokonoko]

Thanks for all the videos, Kyle! I have over a dozen of them loaded and no time to watch them … yet. : D

King Kong — so you got to play Brawl over in QLD, huh? Apparently the gaming club at Adelaide Uni got a copy too. I have to try and get in on that, somehow …

 

[fazares]

-I want sideB to be in my game but I haven't found out where it goes, except for the easy ledge guard stuff. *Pondering*

if ur interested u can use the side-b as a close quarter move...then hit them with a charged smash or a giant punch....my brother uses it this way....

 

[J.L]

Why dont you watch a DK cpu play, and see what he does? Im sure you can pick up a thing or two.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Can his U-tilt still juggle some characters?

 

[Ripple]

great to see my idea worked. thanks for the test.

I want a mm between me and you kyle about 1 month after I get it ( Mar 9)

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

if ur interested u can use the side-b as a close quarter move...then hit them with a charged smash or a giant punch....my brother uses it this way....

I understand this, but the dilemma comes from the incredible slow startup of sideB, it's so slow I see no reason to get hit by this in close quarters.... I guess we can punish missed/baited upB's with DK's sideB for that extra damage and free Fsmash, compared to just a Dsmash.

Can his U-tilt still juggle some characters?

I think it will hit fast fallers a few times, but I will test this one. =) good suggestion.

great to see my idea worked. thanks for the test.
I want a mm between me and you kyle about 1 month after I get it ( Mar 9)

I like the idea of us playing together, but I don't do MM's. How about our two incredible DK's enter a team tourney sometime and we let the Kong Challenge **** peepz ehe? Trust me, we will definitely play on wifi, and I'll keep everyone updated when I travel as IL isn't soo far away. =)

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

I have an idea.

The DK Video Archive is nice and all, but has nothing appealing to OTHER players, as we are content with the character sections for reference. So, I suggest we pick the 3-4 most intense interesting matches and put them on a "Hall of fame" section also, that way everyone will be interested in DK. ehe, huh, hey Amirite? So, with that being said.

As of right now, which 3 vids are the hypest/most interesting to you? As new vids get posted and uploaded by everyone, the top 3 will keep updating, that way we can always showcase the best.

Think of it this way also, once we get the first three established, all we need to do after that is measure new content to the "Hall of fame" If there is a better match, than it will go in the Hall.

Is this a good idea?!?

Votes everyone?

 

[Brahma]

I don't know that putting "hall of fame" matches will get other people interested in DK. The problem isn't that there aren't good DK vids, the problem is that people just don't seem to like DK as a character ad are too busy trying out the new characters in Brawl.

Just my 2 cents though.


Also, DK seems to have some close to guaranteed, if not fully guaranteed 2 hit combos. I think these were mentioned already by you Kyle, but to clarify:

down A trip, Fsmash/giant punch
>B, Fsmash/punch
Powershield parry, Dsmash

These all work, correct?

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Yep Yep

Also

Dtilt (Trip), sideB, AA
Cargo, Jump, Ftoss, Uair


on fasties, I THINK you get

downB, Utilt

 

[Ripple]

I also vote for "refreshing" the videos. taking some down after some period of time like say 3 months? and putting newer one up

 

[fazares]

I understand this, but the dilemma comes from the incredible slow startup of sideB, it's so slow I see no reason to get hit by this in close quarters.... I guess we can punish missed/baited upB's with DK's sideB for that extra damage and free Fsmash, compared to just a Dsmash.

even this way it looks kinda useful,isnt it?

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Your right. I was just hoping for more, but I assure everyone I was being greed.

SideB has two distinct funstions.

1- Punish missed/baited upB's with DK's sideB for extra damage and Fsmash/DK Punch combo. Compared to just a Dsmash general Punish.

2- Spike people sweet-spotting the edge, use it while DK is still on the ground and opponent is Aeriel.

 

[Dust319]

I have an idea.

The DK Video Archive is nice and all, but has nothing appealing to OTHER players, as we are content with the character sections for reference. So, I suggest we pick the 3-4 most intense interesting matches and put them on a "Hall of fame" section also, that way everyone will be interested in DK. ehe, huh, hey Amirite? So, with that being said.

As of right now, which 3 vids are the hypest/most interesting to you? As new vids get posted and uploaded by everyone, the top 3 will keep updating, that way we can always showcase the best.

Think of it this way also, once we get the first three established, all we need to do after that is measure new content to the "Hall of fame" If there is a better match, than it will go in the Hall.

Is this a good idea?!?

Votes everyone?

It's a nice idea, but wouldn't it just be easier to rename the archive and put a "DK video showcase" at the top instead. I mean, still go with the idea of 3 or 4 really good DK vids, but at the top of that thread. Then at the bottom, have other vids linked for more "DK action."

Course I've never made a thread before so experience with changing the title is limited, but if it's possible just do that and reorganize the first post. That way we won't have this forum cluttered with vid threads and stickies (plus it may require less Mod invovlvement I'd think).

Just a thought.
If we do such an idea though, I'd vote for Clown Yoter vs Shoryuswordsman. It's a pretty close match, and it shows DK can still give Marth a run for his money. Honorable mentions goes to SamuraiPanda if for no other reason than he seems to be pushing DK in SMYN as the "good character nobody suspects"... like the Spanish Inquisition.

Oh, um... on topic, yeah. <_< DK looks like fun. I hope he's available to play on the demo if it ever comes.

 

[NJzFinest]

You should put the videos in the first post.

Not everyone is going to take the time to search through the thread

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

To clarify, I had no intentions on making a new thread, I was actually implying to update the first post as Dust suggested, and btw, thank you dust, those were the recomdatiosn I was looking for. =)

Renaming threads is easy as cake, I'm all over that.

Laughles at staying "On topic", is not like a mod will delete this thread (Or any others in the DK section).

 

[Ripple]

I also vote for "refreshing" the videos. taking some down after some period of time like say 3 months? and putting newer one up

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

As logn as the vids are posted in the Video Archive thread, then the first post will be updated. Yes, after some time I will rotate vids, as what's new/exciting now will be nothgin in a few months.

 

[Brahma]

Does d-tilt always trip?

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Not always, additionally, it only trips each weight class at certain % ranges, EXAMPLE: IC 0-13%, Koopa 35-50%.

I believe a trip is more successful if you get a Counter hit, but I often ponder*... Are there counter hits in Brawl?!?

Maybe this accounts for some Damage differences.... maybe

Well, this is definitely my next thing to test out.THX

 

[VersatileBJN]

This topic is the truth. DK looking like he has some potential in this one.

Topic Creator, you've established that thus far the best option overall after a PS/Parry is down smash right?

Do you feel with the reaction to parrying a move that you have time to quickly analyze what to punish with(like 3S), or do you need to react instantaneously?

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

No Counter hit in Brawl guys. No damage difference on Counter hits, But I didn't test guaranteed trips but I am assuming they aren't guaranteed. =( I will verify this before disclosing it, but I HIGHLY doubt that the only counter hit in the game is trips.

...Topic Creator, you've established that thus far the best option overall after a PS/Parry is down smash right?

Do you feel with the reaction to parrying a move that you have time to quickly analyze what to punish with(like 3S), or do you need to react instantaneously?

You called me "Topic moderator" lol. Good question but unlike 3S the parry, attack windows are different sizes based on the attack successfully parried. So, the heavier/laggier move parried result in a Greater window to retaliate.

The recovery after a successful parry is almost instant, DK has to hit the opponent before they can guard.

Unfortunately I do not know the official frame data and can't look at the start-up frames for each move, but if you have a GOOD size window (EXAMPLE- Ganon Fair) DK should Parry than Fsmash as it is stronger then Dsmash. For almost every move in Brawl, Parry, Dsmash is an effective, damaging, KILLING solution. I have yet to find a move than can allow Parry, sideB...

GENERIC ANSWER- React to the move parried, Plan your actions previously. =)

 

[VersatileBJN]

Ok word. Good stuff. This inspired me to create topics about options Post Parry on the Samus,Lucas,Ike and Marth boards. Hope I'm not considered a spammer haha.

What I'm really feeling about DK is the invincible frames on his giant punch now. You said on the 5th or 6 wind up though? I'm no DK player(though I'm flirting with the idea of using him a bit in Brawl), so I'd assume 6 wind ups isn't fully charged?

I'd assume parry--> giant punch would be absolute filth. Maybe it got toned down so badly that forward smash really is the best option with plenty of time to punish?

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

The 5 or 6th wind-up INVULNERABILITY has been disproved. Good hypothesis, no dice.

DK has invulnerability on the release of a FULLY Charged DK Punch, the invulnerability is set up such that: In a trade situation, he never loses. Mind you, he can still be "Hit-out" of the Donkey Punch, but it never trades, always wins.

Check out this video to see what I'm talking about


Kyle (DK) vs Jonathan_Meadows (Diddy)2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yumVGfyxi5A

Don't forget about his invulnerability on grounded upB and invincibility on Aeriel upB.

-Strong Kong is Monkey,
Kyle~

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

<--- Double posting noob. I can't believe it won't let me erase this. **** Vbulliten. MODS PLEASE ERASE THIS POST.

 

[VersatileBJN]

What is the difference between invulnerable and invincible in regards to his up B

good vid by the way. Diddy wasn't too good. It seems you got your Fair spikes off mainly by him refusing to use the auto ledge grabbing mechanics, but it's all good.

EDIT: Are you getting American Brawl? I'd really like to fight you when the game comes out. Kentucky right? I'm not sure the distance between Kentucky and NJ, but I don't think it will be too bad.

You should sign up for the smash leagues for online.

www.wifiwars.com

www.smashbrawlrankings.com

for wifiwars, once you register, change your temporary password to a permanent one and then reserve your League name by going here...

http://www.wifiwars.com/special/smashleague/

Those are the future of online competitive smash play. It'd be pretty crazy seeing you, a DK player, ranked really high in your division in brawl rankings or invited to participate in the pro circuit for WiFi.

Then again, I'm acting like DK is guaranteed to suck again, and I'm not so sure about that.

 

[VersatileBJN]

****. Watching you play reminds me SO much of how I used to play DK in the first game.

I noticed in one of the fights that you went for a giant punch and was interrupted. HOWEVER, after you were interrupted you were still charged up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0cs10GmwMY&NR=1

:53 seconds in

This to me is huge. I didn't play Melee on a competitive level, and when I did play I hardly ever used DK, but I know for sure in the first game under these circumstances DK would exit his charged state if interrupted while going for the punch.

I'm liking DK more and more.

 

[Ripple]

invulnerable means you take damage but don't move like yoshi's jump, but invincible means youy don't take damage or move

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Replies-

-Still waiting to test Counter hit guaranteed trips.

- Unfortunately, I did a Dair in that video @ 51 sec. Although, I do see how you misinterpreted it, as the start-up frames are pretty similar.

-Thanks for the info about WIFI stuff, but I don't even own a wii yet... or know the reliability of wifi brawl, Additionally, I'm currently heavily (and for a LONG while might I add) involved in Guilty Gear. we'll see about my dedication to brawl when it gets released.

-Ripple, you were almost correct but to elaborate.

Invulnerability = Presence know, you can be interacted with but take no knockback or damage.
Invincibility = Presence isn't know as anything will go through you.

 

[VersatileBJN]

OK cool

 

[Ripple]

this is something I asked about in a different forum. it turns out that grab attacks (pressing a while you have grabbed them) restore your knockback along with the throw itself.

suggestion is to grab the opponent if you have spammed a move quite a bit and punch them about 3 or 4 times and throw them. this just restored about 50% of the knockback return

 

[Nokonoko]

Invulnerability = Presence know, you can be interacted with but take no knockback or damage.
Invincibility = Presence isn't know as anything will go through you.

Are you sure you don’t take damage when you have invulnerability? It seemed to me that your DK took damage from Diddy’s f-smash as you unleashed The Punch from the ledge (but yes, had no knockback or stun, as if no damage had been taken).