Gahtzu
Smash Journeyman
knee ledge regrab also 2gud
-
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Falcon Mind-Meld: A Captain Falcon Matchup Thread (now on: EDGEGUARDING))
- Thread starter DuckPimp
- Start date
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
i read that in my head as lee knedge regrab
working on compiling data now
working on compiling data now
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
i like the ledgehop reverse waveland to double jump knee waveland rinse repeat
This is really cool
But I have problems wavedashing straight backwards :/
I always fall a little bit
So let's talk about Darkrain
Darkrain plays the same way I do: aggro mindgames, spacing, and control of the match
Combine that with mixing up timing and abusing your character's movement, you have one of the greatest players in existence
Watching Darkrain vs Matt R [here] from SMYM12 was basically how me and my roommate play, except with pro players lmao
So let's watch this video and break it down, starting with the Falco Match
[so I guess we're gonna break this down into a Falco break down and a Sheik break down]
I'll start
Immediately off the start, Darkrain runs forward. As the fastest character in the game, doing so is the easiest way of closing distance. We've talked about how you need to be on Falco and eliminating options to beat him, and that's how Darkrain does it. So he runs forward.
What will falco do in this situation? He's too far to be punished, he knows his best option from here is to eliminate falcon's movement. So he lasers.
Darkrain knows this and shields the laser. Here's where things get interesting.
He immediately SH nairs out of shield to catch another hop forward laser, the next logical step after a laser that "hit" [you can't really see from the words but a lot of people will just jump in there anyway]
Matt fullhops in case Darkrain goes out to attack him
Darkrain runs away, returning with a knee to catch the shine. Overall he's putting on pressure to make sure that Falco can't laser without getting caught, but can't move forward without getting nair'd/pivot naired.
Let's move on to the actual nair. Darkrain has one of the sexiest goddamn nairs I've ever seen, my favorite kind of nair. First hit, fast fall, second hit. It makes sure that if you hit the first one, you're probably going to hit the second one, especially if they CC. Darkrain gets the nair into a gentleman at 0:14 and pushes him offstage. After that, he reads the ledgehop attack, but misspaces for the dair and gets hit, then thrown off stage. Rather than fall down to the ledge, he DJs out to mess with his opponents pressure game [or his plan] and ends up behind him and grabs Matt R. Rather than dthrow, he fthrows to make his opponent panic because it wasn't what he expected, and has too far to go than just a DJ back to the ledge. That makes Matt R panic, airdodge up onto the stage, where Darkrain finishes off the stock with a knee.
After the second stock starts, Darkrain runs up to Matt with a shield for the same reason he did earlier: he wants to be close, but to be in control the second that Matt decides to pick an option. Matt opts for a shield pressure nair, and Darkrain rolls away, satisfied with his bait. He runs towards the ledge, and Matt R follows with a dair. Darkrain Powershields and rolls in towards the stage.
Darkrain now has Matt R in a position he wants him to be: near the ledge, with Darkrain between him and the middle of the stage. Darkrain pokes his shield with a nair, hoping for a response. Matt gives him a bair, which Darkrain in and grabs. He wants Matt to roll towards the edge, so that he can close this stock off with an easy knee, but knows that probably wont' happen. Unfortunately, while thinking about this, Matt techs in place and rolls behind Darkrain, now edgeguarding Darkrain. He miss spaces a nair on DR's shield and Darkrain gets away, prioritizing his stock over the potential of getting a quick kill. He knows that his OoS options will be beaten easily by Falco, and decides to reengage on his terms. He tries to get the nair but misses, choosing to disengage once again to try to hold on to his control over the game. He's at a large distance now, so Matt goes for the laser, Darkrain uses his momentum to full hop over the entire stage, closing ALL of the space he just gave with shocking speed, hoping that that rate of movement will force Matt into something dumb. It does: Matt shines, and gets raptor boosted into a slow gentleman. Darkrain's slow gentleman is meant to freak Matt into his shield and keep him there, where Darkrain can use his mobility to gain complete control again. This time however, Matt rolls away, getting a Dair into a Dsmash to put Darkrain over the edge. Darkrain is too far to catch with a DJ and goes for a low recovery, hoping to throw off Matt, but is dair'd and doesn't tech the stage. [he could have, fairly easily btw]
Afterwards Darkrain wants to get back in there, using his invincibility to chase Falco down and keep him close. He goes into a half-nair->dthrow, DDing back from the tech in place to force an option. Many players who tech in place start panicking when a CF DD's in front of him and spot dodge, and Darkrain is looking for that spot dodge. Matt R FHs instead, and Darkrain leaps up after him almost immediately, knocking him out of whatever he was about to do [probably dair] with a quick uair. Matt is now on the ledge, and Darkrain is going through his options, deciding he's going to pick the two most common with one move: FH knee to cover jump from ledge and ledgehop aerials. The FH will beat out both of those, or at least trade with the ledgehop. Matt decides he wants to be on the inside and rolls past Darkrain, trying to break the momentum by slowing the match down. He shines OoS and gets behind Darkrain as he misses a raptor boost, Darkrain hard DIs the shine away, hoping to escape the coming combo. Matt R luckily misses jump out of shine and Darkrain responds to his run in with a double jump to avoid any kind of attack that's coming, FFs a nair and hits a knee on shield. He knows that the knee on shield, done correctly, gives him frame advantage, so he runs away in hopes of 1) avoiding any kind of OoS response and 2) getting an OoS response. He runs back in with a grab, dtilts to mess up Matt's tech, and follows the hit to where Matt would be had he missed it. Matt rolls inwards and trades with Darkrain. Darkrain does a quick nair in hopes of stopping any kind of second nair/dair, but has sufficiently scared Matt R into his shield. He runs up and grabs, uthrowing into another dtilt. This time, he doesn't knee again, but instead empty hops into following the tech, uthrowing again into an fsmash for the stock.
Matt R returns with a laser, and Darkrain attempts to PS it, trying again for a nair even though Matt's invinc. Matt nairs him, jabbing to stop the grab, and missing the shine because Darkrain decided to SDI behind Matt somehow. Darkrain gets a dthrow, knows Matt likes to tech in place, gets a usmash and goes for the knee, hoping for the second tech in place. Matt tries to roll behind him, but Darkrain's able to respond; unfortunately he FH knees and gets bair'd. Hoping to catch Matt unaware, his fall dair misses and he jumps up over the laser and catches Matt's laser with a nair. Somehow Matt loses his jump and upBs, and Darkrain goes through his options, choosing to dair without FFing until after the ****, making sure that Matt has sufficiently committed to an angle before Darkrain makes his move. He repeats this, and Matt goes for the sweet spot again, teching the ledge into another upB, where as Darkrain decides that he's going to take away almost all of his options, jumping out there with a knee. He guesses correctly that Matt wanted to go above him rather than for the ledge again [due to his conditioning that Matt COULDN'T have the ledge] and gets the knee for the third stock.
From there on, Matt is sufficiently desperate, and Darkrain just lets him fall off the stage after getting a few hits, ending the life quickly with a stomp and knee gimp.
Darkrain plays the same way I do: aggro mindgames, spacing, and control of the match
Combine that with mixing up timing and abusing your character's movement, you have one of the greatest players in existence
Watching Darkrain vs Matt R [here] from SMYM12 was basically how me and my roommate play, except with pro players lmao
So let's watch this video and break it down, starting with the Falco Match
[so I guess we're gonna break this down into a Falco break down and a Sheik break down]
I'll start
Immediately off the start, Darkrain runs forward. As the fastest character in the game, doing so is the easiest way of closing distance. We've talked about how you need to be on Falco and eliminating options to beat him, and that's how Darkrain does it. So he runs forward.
What will falco do in this situation? He's too far to be punished, he knows his best option from here is to eliminate falcon's movement. So he lasers.
Darkrain knows this and shields the laser. Here's where things get interesting.
He immediately SH nairs out of shield to catch another hop forward laser, the next logical step after a laser that "hit" [you can't really see from the words but a lot of people will just jump in there anyway]
Matt fullhops in case Darkrain goes out to attack him
Darkrain runs away, returning with a knee to catch the shine. Overall he's putting on pressure to make sure that Falco can't laser without getting caught, but can't move forward without getting nair'd/pivot naired.
Let's move on to the actual nair. Darkrain has one of the sexiest goddamn nairs I've ever seen, my favorite kind of nair. First hit, fast fall, second hit. It makes sure that if you hit the first one, you're probably going to hit the second one, especially if they CC. Darkrain gets the nair into a gentleman at 0:14 and pushes him offstage. After that, he reads the ledgehop attack, but misspaces for the dair and gets hit, then thrown off stage. Rather than fall down to the ledge, he DJs out to mess with his opponents pressure game [or his plan] and ends up behind him and grabs Matt R. Rather than dthrow, he fthrows to make his opponent panic because it wasn't what he expected, and has too far to go than just a DJ back to the ledge. That makes Matt R panic, airdodge up onto the stage, where Darkrain finishes off the stock with a knee.
After the second stock starts, Darkrain runs up to Matt with a shield for the same reason he did earlier: he wants to be close, but to be in control the second that Matt decides to pick an option. Matt opts for a shield pressure nair, and Darkrain rolls away, satisfied with his bait. He runs towards the ledge, and Matt R follows with a dair. Darkrain Powershields and rolls in towards the stage.
Darkrain now has Matt R in a position he wants him to be: near the ledge, with Darkrain between him and the middle of the stage. Darkrain pokes his shield with a nair, hoping for a response. Matt gives him a bair, which Darkrain in and grabs. He wants Matt to roll towards the edge, so that he can close this stock off with an easy knee, but knows that probably wont' happen. Unfortunately, while thinking about this, Matt techs in place and rolls behind Darkrain, now edgeguarding Darkrain. He miss spaces a nair on DR's shield and Darkrain gets away, prioritizing his stock over the potential of getting a quick kill. He knows that his OoS options will be beaten easily by Falco, and decides to reengage on his terms. He tries to get the nair but misses, choosing to disengage once again to try to hold on to his control over the game. He's at a large distance now, so Matt goes for the laser, Darkrain uses his momentum to full hop over the entire stage, closing ALL of the space he just gave with shocking speed, hoping that that rate of movement will force Matt into something dumb. It does: Matt shines, and gets raptor boosted into a slow gentleman. Darkrain's slow gentleman is meant to freak Matt into his shield and keep him there, where Darkrain can use his mobility to gain complete control again. This time however, Matt rolls away, getting a Dair into a Dsmash to put Darkrain over the edge. Darkrain is too far to catch with a DJ and goes for a low recovery, hoping to throw off Matt, but is dair'd and doesn't tech the stage. [he could have, fairly easily btw]
Afterwards Darkrain wants to get back in there, using his invincibility to chase Falco down and keep him close. He goes into a half-nair->dthrow, DDing back from the tech in place to force an option. Many players who tech in place start panicking when a CF DD's in front of him and spot dodge, and Darkrain is looking for that spot dodge. Matt R FHs instead, and Darkrain leaps up after him almost immediately, knocking him out of whatever he was about to do [probably dair] with a quick uair. Matt is now on the ledge, and Darkrain is going through his options, deciding he's going to pick the two most common with one move: FH knee to cover jump from ledge and ledgehop aerials. The FH will beat out both of those, or at least trade with the ledgehop. Matt decides he wants to be on the inside and rolls past Darkrain, trying to break the momentum by slowing the match down. He shines OoS and gets behind Darkrain as he misses a raptor boost, Darkrain hard DIs the shine away, hoping to escape the coming combo. Matt R luckily misses jump out of shine and Darkrain responds to his run in with a double jump to avoid any kind of attack that's coming, FFs a nair and hits a knee on shield. He knows that the knee on shield, done correctly, gives him frame advantage, so he runs away in hopes of 1) avoiding any kind of OoS response and 2) getting an OoS response. He runs back in with a grab, dtilts to mess up Matt's tech, and follows the hit to where Matt would be had he missed it. Matt rolls inwards and trades with Darkrain. Darkrain does a quick nair in hopes of stopping any kind of second nair/dair, but has sufficiently scared Matt R into his shield. He runs up and grabs, uthrowing into another dtilt. This time, he doesn't knee again, but instead empty hops into following the tech, uthrowing again into an fsmash for the stock.
Matt R returns with a laser, and Darkrain attempts to PS it, trying again for a nair even though Matt's invinc. Matt nairs him, jabbing to stop the grab, and missing the shine because Darkrain decided to SDI behind Matt somehow. Darkrain gets a dthrow, knows Matt likes to tech in place, gets a usmash and goes for the knee, hoping for the second tech in place. Matt tries to roll behind him, but Darkrain's able to respond; unfortunately he FH knees and gets bair'd. Hoping to catch Matt unaware, his fall dair misses and he jumps up over the laser and catches Matt's laser with a nair. Somehow Matt loses his jump and upBs, and Darkrain goes through his options, choosing to dair without FFing until after the ****, making sure that Matt has sufficiently committed to an angle before Darkrain makes his move. He repeats this, and Matt goes for the sweet spot again, teching the ledge into another upB, where as Darkrain decides that he's going to take away almost all of his options, jumping out there with a knee. He guesses correctly that Matt wanted to go above him rather than for the ledge again [due to his conditioning that Matt COULDN'T have the ledge] and gets the knee for the third stock.
From there on, Matt is sufficiently desperate, and Darkrain just lets him fall off the stage after getting a few hits, ending the life quickly with a stomp and knee gimp.
ryankam10
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 279
I find it almost impossible to tech chase Falco purely on reaction. And by purely I mean purely as in you're not expecting a roll in any particular direction. Maybe it's because of falco's (I think) long tech roll, but yeah, anyone else feel this way too?
S l o X
Smash Champion
i don't know who i play like but it doesn't matter. stomp is amazing.
Okay I'll do it later
It takes for ****ing ever
That entire post so far was only for 17 seconds of the video -_-
Yes
BigD how long are you in Chile? You gonna be at Apex?
im getting back to the US on christmas eve, undecided on apex though, i'm not sure how much money i'll have. i do think i want to go though, lotta bros i havent seen in a while should probably be there
and im glad you do that, im sick of falcons letting spaceys repeatedly up b from above the ledge
and im glad you do that, im sick of falcons letting spaceys repeatedly up b from above the ledge
S l o X
Smash Champion
0room going to rom?
S l o X
Smash Champion
Nanuet, NY.
November 19-20th.
November 19-20th.
Gahtzu
Smash Journeyman
0room super good video analyzing kudos.
Linking this back to edgeguarding, stomp (or just edge hog) whenever u get somebody below the stage and fair/bair/uair (whichever u space better) anytime they try to recover at ledge level or above the stage. Obviously not set in stone but a universal categorization for edgeguarding any character?
Linking this back to edgeguarding, stomp (or just edge hog) whenever u get somebody below the stage and fair/bair/uair (whichever u space better) anytime they try to recover at ledge level or above the stage. Obviously not set in stone but a universal categorization for edgeguarding any character?
S l o X
Smash Champion
definitely, it's the same venue from rom 1-3 and the NY tournaments. (No Johns)
it's <1 hr away from me. if you are going, let me know. i'm probably bringing a setup so we can just sit and play forever. (although i don't think i'm getting a hotel)
OMG FOREVER
AND EVER
AND EVER
Dreams do come true!
But sure man I'll let you know if anyone else is going
Probably is PP is going I'll hitch a ride with him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd6t2H6zgW8&t=01m16s
:d from the same video I was breaking down
But thanks I'll do the rest of it when I have time, Darkrain's really easy for me to understand because we play the same way
Which is remarkably exciting as I'm sure you understand
Citizen Snips
Smash Journeyman
Fawx
Alright, I feel like this matchup is pretty painful.
Personally, a good Fox ***** me harder than any Falco. With Falco I can just say "Gay", drop my controller, and then piss in his houseplants. But with Fox, I can't think of a single john, because I literally have no idea what happened. So basically, I need advice.
My main problems:
DD baiting his aerials is a ***** and a half. He moves fast and I don't even know if nairplane can be punished.
If they mix up their spotdodging, I can't get regrabs on any techchase that isn't perfect. Same goes for shining out of tech.
Once I'm in shield, I'm getting grabbed if I don't roll out.
Getting grabbed usually means I die.
Getting shined usually means I die.
Getting hit by everything means I die.
Keep in mind I'm not whining about the matchup. I enjoy the challenge, but it's hella hard, and I would love some help.
To conclude:
Falco is gay.
Alright, I feel like this matchup is pretty painful.
Personally, a good Fox ***** me harder than any Falco. With Falco I can just say "Gay", drop my controller, and then piss in his houseplants. But with Fox, I can't think of a single john, because I literally have no idea what happened. So basically, I need advice.
My main problems:
DD baiting his aerials is a ***** and a half. He moves fast and I don't even know if nairplane can be punished.
If they mix up their spotdodging, I can't get regrabs on any techchase that isn't perfect. Same goes for shining out of tech.
Once I'm in shield, I'm getting grabbed if I don't roll out.
Getting grabbed usually means I die.
Getting shined usually means I die.
Getting hit by everything means I die.
Keep in mind I'm not whining about the matchup. I enjoy the challenge, but it's hella hard, and I would love some help.
To conclude:
Falco is gay.
Two things:
1) Yes
2) Couldn't this go in the Mindmeld thread?
It's one of my favorites but I can't double post for shiggles
(And I probably should finish my video analysis of that Darkrain match I posted, I finished the first match but not the next two)
Anywho
Fox is one of those characters who can really keep up with you
Nakamaru actually just brought up this topic so I just wrote a semi big on it
[here]
Basically if they mix up their spot dodging get them in a situation where they feel pressured [such as just after dthrowing and they tech in place] and DD in front of them
Force them to pick an option [out of their own personal fear]
and then murder them for doing so
One of the other big gimmicks a lot of people do is use that 1 frame jab of theirs to reset you once they grab you
So they uthrow you->you DI away->jab->regrab
You can get out of this by DIing down [and away, for me personally] and buffer rolling
Buffer rolling is really good btw
But yeah you kinda don't wanna be in shield
The hardest part of this match up is being defensive without shielding
Meaning that you're using your mobility as a shield and stuffing approaches with nair/bair/knee/stomp
Like if they just wanna fly at you with a nair, jumping over where they're going to land and stomping is WONDERFUL
I traditionally don't punish nairs with grab because shine
But it's definitely possible and you should try it every now and again
Sideb really isn't that useful because literally anything can cancel it before it hits them which is always frustrating
Actually getting grabbed itself isn't that bad
Like, it sucks
But it rarely turns into a 0-death
Good combo DI kinda gets you out pretty fast
It's just that transition from being comboed->running away that takes some time
Since he takes for ****ing ever to start moving after he gets up that can be redonkulus and frustrating
Just remember
Being patient is kind of everything in this match up
Tech chasing grabs is wonderful
If you miss the timing window, you CANNOT regrab [like if you guess a knee in place and they roll] so you have to do a sort of half pressure [like Marth does] by DDing. IF they come at you you can just run so
Sometimes running in with a nair/knee if you miss the tech can catch them off guard so that's always fun
Keep in mind that he runs at the same speed as you
So once you run out of space you gotta get creative
If they DI away no tech you have to running knee to get it
Pummel is actually fairly useful
Unless they know to DI hard away on uthrows you can just fsmash them at 80 for a free stock/edgeguard
So you can pummel them from 70-80 [takes like 3 hits I think] and fsmash off the uthrow
Obviously you have to watch what they do but the remarkable thing about their DI hard away is that if they tech in place, your foxtrot will take you right up to them
So you just grab again
If they don't tech you can stomp in time [not sure]
And if they roll you just DD towards them and regrab->uthrow and they just don't usually get that DI twice [same concept as Dropzoning, they DI away, side b straight at you, grab->redropzone]
Basically you gotta play the player
Using the tools of the character
Make sense?
1) Yes
2) Couldn't this go in the Mindmeld thread?
It's one of my favorites but I can't double post for shiggles
(And I probably should finish my video analysis of that Darkrain match I posted, I finished the first match but not the next two)
Anywho
Fox is one of those characters who can really keep up with you
Nakamaru actually just brought up this topic so I just wrote a semi big on it
[here]
Basically if they mix up their spot dodging get them in a situation where they feel pressured [such as just after dthrowing and they tech in place] and DD in front of them
Force them to pick an option [out of their own personal fear]
and then murder them for doing so
One of the other big gimmicks a lot of people do is use that 1 frame jab of theirs to reset you once they grab you
So they uthrow you->you DI away->jab->regrab
You can get out of this by DIing down [and away, for me personally] and buffer rolling
Buffer rolling is really good btw
But yeah you kinda don't wanna be in shield
The hardest part of this match up is being defensive without shielding
Meaning that you're using your mobility as a shield and stuffing approaches with nair/bair/knee/stomp
Like if they just wanna fly at you with a nair, jumping over where they're going to land and stomping is WONDERFUL
I traditionally don't punish nairs with grab because shine
But it's definitely possible and you should try it every now and again
Sideb really isn't that useful because literally anything can cancel it before it hits them which is always frustrating
Actually getting grabbed itself isn't that bad
Like, it sucks
But it rarely turns into a 0-death
Good combo DI kinda gets you out pretty fast
It's just that transition from being comboed->running away that takes some time
Since he takes for ****ing ever to start moving after he gets up that can be redonkulus and frustrating
Just remember
Being patient is kind of everything in this match up
Tech chasing grabs is wonderful
If you miss the timing window, you CANNOT regrab [like if you guess a knee in place and they roll] so you have to do a sort of half pressure [like Marth does] by DDing. IF they come at you you can just run so
Sometimes running in with a nair/knee if you miss the tech can catch them off guard so that's always fun
Keep in mind that he runs at the same speed as you
So once you run out of space you gotta get creative
If they DI away no tech you have to running knee to get it
Pummel is actually fairly useful
Unless they know to DI hard away on uthrows you can just fsmash them at 80 for a free stock/edgeguard
So you can pummel them from 70-80 [takes like 3 hits I think] and fsmash off the uthrow
Obviously you have to watch what they do but the remarkable thing about their DI hard away is that if they tech in place, your foxtrot will take you right up to them
So you just grab again
If they don't tech you can stomp in time [not sure]
And if they roll you just DD towards them and regrab->uthrow and they just don't usually get that DI twice [same concept as Dropzoning, they DI away, side b straight at you, grab->redropzone]
Basically you gotta play the player
Using the tools of the character
Make sense?
Winston
Smash Master
Of course it can be punished.
You move at pretty much the same speed horizontally. Learn the range of his shffl nair:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfBuAo_Bfvw#t=2m52s
The near point of your dashdance can be closer than that because you have a little time to move away as he's jumping towards you. The middle point of your dashdance is approximately where Lucien is standing. If he does a nair while you're at that spacing, you automatically DD grab him. If your spacing and timing is good then you grab him during his landing lag, before he has the chance to shine or spotdodge.
This range is the most basic and important thing about this matchup and you should figure out exactly how close you can get while still being able to run back and grab an approach on reaction.
If he tries to use running shine or overshot dash attack to counter your dash dance remember that run back stomp raaaaaapes that.
Actually runback stomp ***** nair approach too if the spacing is right. Mix those in - if you land one it should really shake his confidence.
If they are just dash dancing back, you'd be surprised at how often approaching with grab/knee/uair works vs. that because it's so unexpected from falcon.
Then just get more precise with the timing. Use upthrow, and make sure to position yourself so you're next to them when it's time for them to tech. If they DI away you do 1 dash towards them, if they slight DI away you walk, and if they DI behind turn around in place. Just practice this a lot; it's definitely possible to do this consistently.
If you are planning to reaction techchase, try to realize beforehand if you have screwed up your positioning, because this is probably the most common reason you will mess it up. If you have, switch to baiting the spotdodge/roll/shine for that time. When baiting a defensive action keep in mind that you can often cover multiple options at once; something I like to do is short hop and then fade away to his roll distance, allowing me to react to either a spotdodge or roll. Many falcons do the short hop delayed knee thing, which either intimidates them into spotdodging and then they get kneed, or if they tried to shine, the knee usually outspaces the shine and hits them during their JC lag.
If all they do is shine and they never spotdodge, remember you can space your grabs so you outrange the shine.
Being in shield really sucks; thankfully you are fast enough so you can avoid shielding a lot of the time. But when you have to shield -
Rolling is fine if you don't do it in the same manner every time. Figure out from their positioning/their previous actions what action they are expecting from you and try to do something else. You can wavedash oos, jump, or roll in the other direction. Remember that changing up the timing of the action is also important.
Full jumping OOS is often surprisingly good.
If you DI away or behind on the throws and jump at the right timing, he can't combo off it at low - mid percents.
If he's reaction techchasing you, try buffering roll when you tech in place, and miss techs occasionally. DI away when you can so you don't land next to him - that makes it a lot easier for him.
And for the love of god, DI down and away when he lands uthrow -> nair.
DI away from waveshine usmash so he can't combo off it straight away; if you land on a platform usually you can get out. If he waveshine grabs instead, see above.
Keep in mind that if he nair shined you, unless you're at 0ish, the nair hits you slightly into the air. The shine will make you land on the ground without stun and you can buffer roll to get out, or even grab him if he wavedashes towards you.
Uhh, there's a ton of defensive stuff (including the stuff I said above) in various situations that you can do to minimize the ****, including CCing, smart rolling, sliding off platforms or off the edge, etc. I feel like s2j is really good at defense so watch his videos if you want concrete examples.
But more importantly -
Just **** him back. Falcon's techchase game is really strong vs. Fox. It's less consistent than Fox's stuff on Falcon, but when you get like 2 reads during the techchase you should be able to take his stock.
word
Nakamaru
Smash Master
This actually works, but it is kind of unreliable. You really have to be on point with your reaction for predict it. Otherwise just wait for a response.
Walt
Smash Ace
ok so some notes from playing tonight:
-knowing exactly how to be the 100% gayest level of the homost fagtrocity towards falcon while playing falco is dumb. I feel so dirty when playing the other side of that MU. I don't even play that bird *******.
-ledgedash gentlemen? is any of that invincible? because I'm pretty sure I was doing really sexy hot invincible gentlemens and oh my god they were just perfect. calling strongbad for the frame info.
-knowing exactly how to be the 100% gayest level of the homost fagtrocity towards falcon while playing falco is dumb. I feel so dirty when playing the other side of that MU. I don't even play that bird *******.
-ledgedash gentlemen? is any of that invincible? because I'm pretty sure I was doing really sexy hot invincible gentlemens and oh my god they were just perfect. calling strongbad for the frame info.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
maybe about up to the first jab.
This
SoMagus420 said:
Maybe
I would say probably the first jab is covered but not after that
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
and thats like if you do it perfect
Walt
Smash Ace
I really only was figuring the first jab. I'd be shocked if it was anymore than that. I'm also pretty sure I was doing it perfect because I kept going right through marths fair and gentlemening him before he hit the ground.
So he's a random quote that I feel fits the Marth Match up
or Marth in general
Technically all characters but Marth in particular is one that this stands out with
It's from a movie called Mr. Nobody
"You have to make the right choice. As long as you don't choose, everything remains possible." ~Nemo, from Mr. Nobody
It's the same thing with Marth
AS LONG AS he doesn't commit
Everything is possible
Once he commits
Only that choice can be done
And then you can mess with him for that
or Marth in general
Technically all characters but Marth in particular is one that this stands out with
It's from a movie called Mr. Nobody
"You have to make the right choice. As long as you don't choose, everything remains possible." ~Nemo, from Mr. Nobody
It's the same thing with Marth
AS LONG AS he doesn't commit
Everything is possible
Once he commits
Only that choice can be done
And then you can mess with him for that
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
what are some non-obvious examples of marth commiting? besides just straight up missing moves like grab or smash...
also, i want to begin some focused discussion on sheik
m2k has told me that falcon ***** sheik out of grabs. i believe him, especially when the sheiks di away at around 40. however, if they di up or something similar, i have trouble getting more that a hit or two off on the and its in no way substantial
also, i want to begin some focused discussion on sheik
m2k has told me that falcon ***** sheik out of grabs. i believe him, especially when the sheiks di away at around 40. however, if they di up or something similar, i have trouble getting more that a hit or two off on the and its in no way substantial
Fullhopping a nair and FFing so the second leg hits on the way down/Sh uair->Fh uair are really good for that
It's all about following DI of course
Basically just getting Marth to commit to an option
Not necessarily just whiffing but being committed to being on a certain part of the stage for example
Like trapping him on a platform or cornering him on the edge of the stage
It's all about following DI of course
Basically just getting Marth to commit to an option
Not necessarily just whiffing but being committed to being on a certain part of the stage for example
Like trapping him on a platform or cornering him on the edge of the stage
Captain JOHN
Smash Cadet
I don't know if this is still active, but how do I play against a Pikachu or Falco? These two characters give me trouble, and I'm wondering how i can get around them. I know against Falco I want to go DL64, and I want to ledge drop bair/uair, but against pikachu I have absolutely no clue what to do.... What stages do I want, and how do I go about the matchup in general? The general consensus is that Falcon v. Pika is in Pika's favor, but do bad matchups really matter? The only one in the top 5 Falcon has a maybe even matchup with is Jiggles. Anyway, I'm a novice Falcon, and I would really like some help!
