Final Fantasy VII: Mafia [GAME OVER]

[#HBC | marshy]

don't have to deal with mucky wifom later

 

[Omis]

Ya honestly why would you want to do that? It just seems wrong.

Good **** Chaco. I was feeling a vibe between Omni and Riddle but I just couldnt put my finger on it. Cnat wait to see your responses riddle

 

[Chaco]

don't have to deal with mucky wifom later

As much as I don't like this response, I can see your perspective on it.

 

[Ronike]

I look forward to hearing your case against me chaco, but I would like to point out a few things quick:

A) Though both Riddle and I were on 3 of the "major bandwagons", 2 of the ones I was on I made perfectly clear that I was fine on either, while Riddle was wagoning 3 separate times.
B) I have made clear my intentions several times, noting that I was jumping on bandwagons while giving my reasons for doing so while Riddle, at least IIRC, was just jumping on them for the most part, except for in the case of Hando. That was to redirect attention.
C) I have also made perfectly clear that I will do whatever I can to avoid a no lynch and my reasons for wanting to avoid them, whereas Riddle just seems to want to off people.

Just pointing out, there are significant differences in mine and Riddle's three wagons.

Good **** tho Chaco

 

[Chaco]

That's actually focal points on my thoughts on you, the differences in the wagon votes.

 

[Chill]

First I have to say I don't have the internet right now and I'm posting from my phone(haha I sound like chaco).

With that said I will be doing my best to keep posting.

At the moment I find it very interesting that while I have been inacitve (everywhere as xsy pointed out) there is someone else who's been inactive and no one has said a thing yet. Infact I'm almost %100 positive that I have more posts than this person does. Really that's the only thing that's sticking out to me at this moment but seems like it might be telling.

 

[Xsyven]

Oh my god.

So I'm only on page 13, but no wonder you guys are suspicious of me, Omni is an idiot. So I just got to the part where he claimed... great... my role was revealed halfway into day one.

I'm gonna continue reading now.

 

[Xsyven]

OKAY!

So, after a few more pages, I noticed myself boredly skimming instead of actually reading-- so I'm gonna stop and continue later, once my ADD meter has recharged. I'm mostly through day 1 (sorry for not being as caught up as I should be), and it's kind of cool knowing who to trust (dead people), and who's siding with/arguing with them.

Xsyven's #1 Suspect from halfway though Day 1

Disclaimer:As you should know, this means pretty much NOTHING, since I'm nowhere near finishing the thread, but I wanna get these thoughts out before I forget them. So if any or all of these arguments have been brought up, or resolved, just tell me to keep reading and stop being so stupid.

*Drumroll* FoS: Ronike. Day 1 strategy includes johns, johns, johns, and bandwagoned hate. Though to be honest I too would be annoyed with Omni. What got my goat the most was that you've posted like, 6 times, made excuses, insisted that your other thread was more important. Today, the very first thing you do is announce that my lynch is the gameplan for the day, because (from what I've read) of Omni's incompetent play-- not scuminess.

Announcing the lynch candidate first thing in the day, without even so much as waiting for any sort of new evidence that might have come the previous night? No second thoughts?

You realize that we're on day 3 in a 15 player game with 10 players left, and no dead mafioso. Guess what happens if we mislynch tonight, guys? Mafia wins! I mean, if we're lucky, this is a three Mafia in this game, but we need to be careful.





But yeah, that's where I'm at right now. And as I said before, these are only coming from mid-day one observations. So if I'm wrong, just correct me without being too mean. I'm gettin' there.

I definitely want you all to realize how serious of a bind we're in right now as well, and to not play without thinking. Now is not the time to be tunnel visioned.

 

[Riddle]

I don't have time to respond to your post yet Chaco but I will after school.

Chill, get a new avatar, seriously. It took me like a minute to figure out you weren't Tom.

 

[Ronike]

Yeah, Xsyven, my first half of day 1 strategy sucked, mainly because I promised to have my mafia up after BI mafia finished, and then it finished within two days of me saying that, with me having about 1 role done. So call it a john if you want, but I wrote close to 8000 words just on roles for that game, so I think the amount I DID read and post was a pretty good amount. Tom even gave me V/LA status to work on it. Plus, when I did get my game going, I started posting more and better. Just keep reading mate.

 

[Riddle]

Let me regain my train of thought, and then continue this thing. Anyways, I left off with the vote count analysis. Now you see there are two people who are have been on 3 wagons. Ronike and Riddle. But the point of this post isn't Ronike, however I will touch on him in due time. Riddle, has been a "force" in two of the "three" main wagons. The other, he was more or less an additive. So, let's at the ending vote count of Hando. Riddle started us off, voting wise, and Omni was pushing the "Riddle has been framed" story. So after name claiming, the play moved to Hando. Since no one wanted to no lynch at that point, the Hando lynch was thrown together sloppily and then he self hammered. So what good came of this lynch? Well, in my perspective, it somewhat solidified the connection between Riddle and Omni. Both of which have been major targets of the town, and abandoned upon claim. So, let's see what sense we can make of this. First, let's try:

You forget that Omni wasn't even on the HAndo wagon even though he was a proponent of it. Don't you find that summy at all?

1) If you abandoned all aspects of the flavor, would either Omni or Riddle be alive at this moment?

In my case I really don't know. It's hard to fortell the future and I very well could have argued myself out. Had neither my claim nor Kevin's kill happened? Yes. I believe I would have been. The lack of time would have solidified that. Omni is iffy too. I believe so though.

I'd have to say no. Their claims saved them. Had this been a regular game, and they had claimed townie. I severely doubt that they'd still be here. But now, let's take a look from a different perspective:

Fine

2) Hando claimed Dr. Shalua Rui, why did his claim not have the same effect as the others?

Well, that's because Hando was the fallback lynch, and he claimed a lesser known character.

He wasn't the fallback lynch for me. I found him majorly scummy as did (I think) some other players.

3) Honestly, how many of you, without searching, knew who Dr. Rui was?

I didn't know who Aeris or Cloud were eiter. Is this really relevant?

Let's take a look at some of the quotes from after his claim:

*Quotes*

So let's take a look further in depth at these quotes. Marshy, said "hando can still die. Anything with "doctor" in it can. I see no backing for this quote. I'm waiting to hear a response something like, "People with "Doctor" in their name are never doctors." Well, if that is what you were going to respond with, think of your role in Spider Manfia. You were Doctor Octopus, the doctor. So how did this not throw up flags to anyone? It was not a weighted claim. And then Ronike just says it's utter bull.

I think his point is that protective roles should die once claiming. The Dr. made MArshy think he was claiming doctor.

So, let's take a look at this "ifs":

1) What if Riddle is scum, and we've abandoned him because of his claim?

Well, this is definitely a worst case scenario. So now that I've got these thoughts out, I'm going to Unvote: Riddle. I definitely feel my Faulkner-esque post sent the wrong message. However this one should clarify on my fears. But my vote on Riddle was quickly put out in the pool without clearly organizing my thoughts. So, now with that being said, I'm going to go ahead and answer the questions Riddle posed in his last post related to my previous post.

Umm what? This part makes no sense to me. You find me scummy so you are unvoting me?

(/point #1) That is correct.

fine

(/point #2) No, I am not. I am actually connecting you with Omni based on these reasons:

1. Omni pushing for your save, after a daykill in a time where you were squirming

1. 
   
   Which makes Omni probably have the same allignment as me. No scum implications at all.
   
   

   [*]Both of you being the main forces behind Hando's lynch

   Which he didn't even vote for. (Scummy as hell)
   
   

   [*]The push of Omni and you, but only one of you seems to vote. With the exclusion of Gheb Wagon.

   I've voted on every one of the bw's you are referring to. You are thinking of Omni being scummy and scum-nudging.
   
   

   [*]Oh, and also, the first mistake: You ask for the vote count for before presumably voting Omni. This could go in two ways: 1) You were being cautious where you left your vote on Omni becausce you didn't want to look bad. 2) You didn't want to put Omni in a bad position. 3) It was an honest mistake

I choose 3. Put yourself in my shoes for a second and assume it was an honest mistake. What would you say? I'll try again.

1) Applies to town and scum, however more to scum I agree. I was honestly just skimming though. I didn't see his claim and even if I had I wouldn't have understood it at all.

2) Why would I ask for a vote count in that situation?

3) Yeah I was just tired of the Omni KEvin argument and skimming.

(/point #3) I brought up the mistakes again because you asked for more on them, I provided and you still did not deliver.

I actually asked for motives for the mistakes. I've been told what they were over and over again. Thanks for providing motives finally even though I disagree.

(/point #4) No, there is a possibility of that. That doesn't mean it is fact, unless you just confessed to doing so.

I don't understand. What do you think I am confessing to doing?

(/point #5) Looking at yours and Omni's actions, knowing both of you were about to be lynched with only claims saving you: What connection would you draw?

I don't see a connection really, except that we claimed an important character. This could mean any number of things. We are both safe-claiming scum (nope), We are both town (maybe). Or one of us is safe-claiming scum and one is town.

So, who do I feel we should look at today: Riddle, Omni, and Ronike. I'll have my thoughts up on Ronike sometime soon.

Cool. I would like to look at Xsyven and Chill.



Also, at the people saying "Good **** Chaco" without voting me. Uhh what? Scum nudge and buddy much?

 

[Ronike]

Oh, I missed that... whoops. I think we should be looking further at Riddle, Xsyven/Omni, and Chill. We basically gave those first two a "get out of lynch free" card for claiming, and to chill we gave the coasting ability to.

Btw, awesome:

Which makes Omni probably have the same allignment as me. No scum implications at all.

Which he didn't even vote for. (Scummy as hell)

(note: theses phrases have not been altered in any way shape or form, and in addition they are sequential. As in he said the first thing, then immediately the second)

Thanks for agreeing with us that you are scummy as hell

 

[Riddle]

I was saying that Omni was scummy as hell for not voting on a bandwagon that he was a driving force behind..

 

[Chaco]

You forget that Omni wasn't even on the HAndo wagon even though he was a proponent of it. Don't you find that summy at all?

I do and have said I did.

He wasn't the fallback lynch for me. I found him majorly scummy as did (I think) some other players.

Well of course not for you, you were the one who was the main target. Hando was a fall back from you.

I didn't know who Aeris or Cloud were eiter. Is this really relevant?

Extremely.

I think his point is that protective roles should die once claiming. The Dr. made MArshy think he was claiming doctor.

Well that's where you are wrong. Why lynch them that day if they claim doc? Let scum pick them off, and it takes away a night kill that they could've used on someone else.

Umm what? This part makes no sense to me. You find me scummy so you are unvoting me?

I don't feel it's in the best interest yet to have you lynched.

Which makes Omni probably have the same allignment as me. No scum implications at all.

I'm glad you're saying this, because in the later parts of this post you're trying to sell Omni as scum.

Which he didn't even vote for. (Scummy as hell)

Indeed it is.

I've voted on every one of the bw's you are referring to. You are thinking of Omni being scummy and scum-nudging.

Mhm, both.

I choose 3. Put yourself in my shoes for a second and assume it was an honest mistake. What would you say? I'll try again.

1) Applies to town and scum, however more to scum I agree. I was honestly just skimming though. I didn't see his claim and even if I had I wouldn't have understood it at all.

2) Why would I ask for a vote count in that situation?

3) Yeah I was just tired of the Omni KEvin argument and skimming.

I'd mount an excellent defense and tell them what happened with methods other than WIFOM. Afterwards, put up a case on someone who you find scummy.

2) Asking for a vote count, but consider it was a slip, allows you to see what portion of the wagon you jumped on during. Which can matter a lot.

I actually asked for motives for the mistakes. I've been told what they were over and over again. Thanks for providing motives finally even though I disagree.

We can disagree, but would you agree even if it were true?

I don't see a connection really, except that we claimed an important character. This could mean any number of things. We are both safe-claiming scum (nope), We are both town (maybe). Or one of us is safe-claiming scum and one is town.

Or many other things, but I'm not going to be dependent on flavor. That was just an add-in interesting aspect. If you're lynched it will not be because of flavor, atleast from me, it will be because you are by far the scummiest player in this game.

Also, at the people saying "Good **** Chaco" without voting me. Uhh what? Scum nudge and buddy much?{/QUOTE]

Agreed.

 

[Ronike]

Alright then, I'll never ever post my gratitude for someone actually managing to go back and read and getting arguments from back there, sheesh.

$10 says if I had voted for Riddle, he would have accused me of needlessly band wagoning.

 

[Riddle]

Alright then, I'll never ever post my gratitude for someone actually managing to go back and read and getting arguments from back there, sheesh.

$10 says if I had voted for Riddle, he would have accused me of needlessly band wagoning.

Nope. I think you should always vote for who you find scummy. However, I would have argued against the reasons for your votes anyways.

 

[Chaco]

Well, I see no further argument out of Riddle. So I'll park my vote there.

Vote: Riddle

 

[Chill]

Ok, I finally have time on a computer so I'm reading through the thread again. The thing that I already mentioned is till what's sticking out to me. And not only that but I'm seeing some really strange "misreadings" going on.

 

[Chaco]

Sup guys? 2 days or more and 3 posts.

 

[Riddle]

Yeah this is getting crazy. Just for a little activity boost and/or discussion boost, everybody post their 2 (or more) FoS's.

Mine are Chill (Inmactivity) and Xsyven (Not being on the Hando wagon).

 

[Tom]

"What is it?"

"Nothing. I just remembered a certain hypothesis... Haven't you ever had the feeling something is calling you? Or that you had to visit some place?"

"I'll go anywhere Sephiroth is at! To beat him and put an end to all this!"

"I see... This could be interesting. Were you in SOLDIER? ...Heh heh heh! Would you like to be my guinea pig?"

23rd Vote Count:
Chill (1): Ronike
Riddle (1): Chaco

Not voting (8): Omis, Junglefever, Frozenflame, Marshy, Mentos, Chill, Xsyven, Riddle

Massprod :]

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Chill would you like to elaborate more on your thoughts? Which misreadings stand out to you? Does it connect to the thing you've already mentioned?

Xsy still hasn't reported back on his thoughts on Omni's D2 play and scum suspicions yet

I'm still in canada for thanksgiving so I'll post more thoughts when I get back to the states tonight.

 

[Chaco]

Jungle, what are your thoughts on the vote analysis?

 

[Ronike]

My two FOS's are on Xsyven, for reasons previously stated, and Riddle, for skimming mainly. My vote remains on Chill and will stay that way until he actually decides to contribute rather than just say "Oooooh, misreadings! Plus what I said before still stands."

 

[#HBC | marshy]

frozen/mentos who's scum?

also if whoever votedblocked me today is town stop doing that

 

[Chaco]

Thoughts on Riddle, Marshy?

 

[mentosman8]

My FoS's are probably Chill and Chaco. Chill because I don't remember seeing a substantial post from him in a long time, and Chaco because, well, quite simply his pushing of Riddle. I know he's made a couple strange things, which I pushed him for from the start, but honestly I am not prepared to lynch someone who is probably one of the strongest townie roles based on that. If a cop investigates and gets guilty, whole different story, but I don't think Cloud should be our target.

 

[Chaco]

So you disagree with all points I have made on Riddle? If not, please point out what you agree with.

Also, what is a strong townie role if there is a scummy player behind it? If he is a detriment to town, would not his role be as well?

Also, are you saying that he should only be kept because of his name claim? It seems implied.

 

[mentosman8]

Let me regain my train of thought, and then continue this thing. Anyways, I left off with the vote count analysis. Now you see there are two people who are have been on 3 wagons. Ronike and Riddle. But the point of this post isn't Ronike, however I will touch on him in due time. Riddle, has been a "force" in two of the "three" main wagons. The other, he was more or less an additive. So, let's at the ending vote count of Hando. Riddle started us off, voting wise, and Omni was pushing the "Riddle has been framed" story. So after name claiming, the play moved to Hando. Since no one wanted to no lynch at that point, the Hando lynch was thrown together sloppily and then he self hammered. So what good came of this lynch? Well, in my perspective, it somewhat solidified the connection between Riddle and Omni. Both of which have been major targets of the town, and abandoned upon claim. So, let's see what sense we can make of this. First, let's try:

First and foremost, the Hando lynch wasn't really "sloppily thrown together." People were suspicious of him and since a major character was claimed the town moved from target A to target B. Definitely not in agreement that it was a sloppy lynch.

1) If you abandoned all aspects of the flavor, would either Omni or Riddle be alive at this moment?

I'd have to say no. Their claims saved them. Had this been a regular game, and they had claimed townie. I severely doubt that they'd still be here. But now, let's take a look from a different perspective:

Would they still be alive? Quite possibly yes. Why do I think this? Omni may have had less luck, as his doc claim may have been less trustworthy without the name attached to it. However, it is high likelihood that Riddle would still be alive. This is because seeing as he claimed the main character, I think it's safe to assume his claim wouldn't be vanilla townie as you imply here. Now, I don't know what role he is nor do I care to speculate and possibly give mafia ideas, but regardless if the name-claim hadn't saved him, the role attached to it may well have done so.

2) Hando claimed Dr. Shalua Rui, why did his claim not have the same effect as the others?

Well, that's because Hando was the fallback lynch, and he claimed a lesser known character.

It's not because Hando was the "fallback lynch" as you put it, and I don't think it's entirely because of the character. Yes, it's a lesser known character who may or may not have been in the game, vs people claiming characters assumed to be in the game. However, he also claimed vanilla townie. Omni role-claimed, it helped save him. Riddle didn't have to because the name was enough to make most of us back off. Hando, however, claimed a vanilla townie attached to a more obscure character, and since people were suspicious of him, the lynch went through.

3) Honestly, how many of you, without searching, knew who Dr. Rui was?

Let's take a look at some of the quotes from after his claim:

What difference does this make? More obscure characters ALWAYS draw suspicion on their claims in themed games because scum is not likely to fake a major character, instead choosing to go with lesser known ones in order to avoid conflict.


So let's take a look further in depth at these quotes. Marshy, said "hando can still die. Anything with "doctor" in it can. I see no backing for this quote. I'm waiting to hear a response something like, "People with "Doctor" in their name are never doctors." Well, if that is what you were going to respond with, think of your role in Spider Manfia. You were Doctor Octopus, the doctor. So how did this not throw up flags to anyone? It was not a weighted claim. And then Ronike just says it's utter bull.

Marshy has already responded to this, but that quote had NOTHING to do with the possible response you gave. Many times doctors are better off being lynched right away because it's the safest claim for scum to make and brings up massive WIFOM later on.

So, let's take a look at this "ifs":

1) What if Riddle is scum, and we've abandoned him because of his claim?

Well, this is definitely a worst case scenario. So now that I've got these thoughts out, I'm going to Unvote: Riddle. I definitely feel my Faulkner-esque post sent the wrong message. However this one should clarify on my fears. But my vote on Riddle was quickly put out in the pool without clearly organizing my thoughts. So, now with that being said, I'm going to go ahead and answer the questions Riddle posed in his last post related to my previous post.

I'm going to say this one more time: It is safe to assume Cloud has a role important to the town, and lynching him based off a "what if Tom gave scum the major characters as safeclaims, essentially breaking name-claims in the opposite direction" and getting rid of that role is stupid.

Ok Chaco, my responses to your points are in orange within the quote. Hope this will answer your question.

The part I took out of the quote was your responses to Riddle, which I felt no need to respond to. Over all, your case is flimsy at best, and I'm pretty sure if it was a non-themed game and Riddle claimed whatever role he may have, we would have switched anyway.

Now, do I think Riddle is 100% cleared? No. However, I'm not about to go lynching an un counter-claimed Cloud Strife based off of a couple of mistakes he made earlier in the game. We're getting far enough we need to play it smart, and focusing on Riddle is NOT playing it smart. I'll hopefully have my thoughts on who we should look at together by tomorrow, but I'm leaving this here for now.

 

[Ronike]

So, mentos, I have a question. Put aside the fact that Riddle is Cloud for a second, and answer me this:
Would you still be defending him?

 

[Omis]

I think Im missing out on something obvious but why is doc a safer scum claim?

 

[mentosman8]

Ronike: If all things were the same without the flavor, I feel it is safe to assume he would have had a role claim that would make me think twice. Fact is, important character=likely to have an important role, and if the flavor were missing he would have role-claimed instead of name-claimed, and my opinion would likely have changed as well. I made specific mention in my response to Chaco that if this hadn't been a themed game, and everything was the same except we didn't have names, a role-claim by Riddle could very possibly have swayed me. I would rather keep what he can do under wraps for now than have him role-claim so we can stop this "If it weren't for flavor would you still be voting him" nonsense. The short and simple of that: I don't know if I would be, because I would have a role-claim instead of a name-claim, and depending on the role my response could potentially be different, but given his character I can assume it would be the same.

Let me just say, the only way I can answer that what if situation(why do people insist on placing hypothetical situations out for response>_>) is if Riddle role-claimed, which he would have done yesterday had he not had such a huge name-claim. I know I may be repeating myself a bit in different wording, but the point needs to be made, no one knows what they would do if things were different, because different information would be present. Let's stop focusing on hypotheticals and stuff that can NOT be fully responded to with the information we have, and start working with that same information.

Omis: Protective roles are good for scum to claim because town is ALWAYS hesitant to lynch them. Couple that with the fact that if they claim and avoid lynching and town gets suspicious of them still being alive they play the WIFOM card.

 

[Chaco]

You're tunneling the fact on "important character=important role".

 

[mentosman8]

Not necessarily Chaco, I'm saying it's likely, but as I said in my response to Ronike, a hypothetical "If he didn't claim Cloud would you be acting the same way," involves fundamental differences in how yesterday played out, including a role-claim instead of a name claim. As I said, I don't know his role so I don't know if that would change things, but it's a strong enough line of logic to not want to focus on him.

 

[Ronike]

You still didn't answer my question mentos. Take away the fact that he is Cloud, and would you lynch him? I don't care about the role-claim, I don't care about lacking flavor, just answer the question.

 

[Chill]

Xsyven, could you state your role again?

I read through again and my main point of interest is frozenflame.

Frozen, you haven't been posting in this game at all. True, my own activity has been somewhat lackluster but my tardiness does not excuse yours. Despite your low activity you have yet to be cited for it. Two players that have had heavy suspicion leveled at them at some point, Omis and Riddle, have both asked "where's Chill" but no one has said a word about you. Nothing you can do about that but I do find it interesting that for people so interested in keepin up activity that they wouldn't mention you at all.

Your post so far have been largely unhelpful. You've shown up simply to be agreeable with everyone. The only time you really disagreed with anyone was when I was going after Omni (now Xsyven). But when others began to take note of Omni you changed your tune.

You also mentioned that lynching Hando would provide us with "leads and connections" where are these? Why aren't you hear to point this out? This goes for anyone else who said this too. Omis, I believe you were one of these people.

As it stands you're aren't doing any scum hunting at all. Your actions are entirely anti-town.

vote:frozenflame

 

[mentosman8]

Ronike: I DID answer your question. The role-claim could potentially make up a big difference in my view of the situation. I'm not going to say "Yes I would lynch him if he wasn't cloud" without knowing his role, nor am I going to say I wouldn't lynch him if he wasn't Cloud. I was suspicious of Riddle, but suspicious enough to lynch him if he claimed a very useful PR? Probably not. But, if he roleclaimed as, say, a vanilla townie, I would have been suspicious enough to lynch. The unknown factors weigh far too heavily for me to give you an answer that I truly believe is the case, and so I am not going to state a decision on something that I don't know what the case would be.

 

[Ronike]

What in your mind is a very useful PR?

 

[Ronike]

Thank you for contributing Chill

Unvote: Chill

 

[mentosman8]

Ronike, why are you so persistent on this line of thought? If I start to name off roles that would make me reluctant to lynch Riddle(which I believe he may have such a role) it could give the mafia an idea they hadn't thought of and that could be bad for us. My answer is as complete as it is going to get until Riddle role-claims. Then we'll decide if a difference is made and if I consider a useful role or not. Anything prior to that is simply speculating on roles and does nothing to help us, nothing to find scum, and only gives scum ideas they may not have thought of. There is NO reason for me to answer that last question, nor for you to have asked it, because it dives into a dead-end discussion.