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Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance | Final Chapter

Rajam

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@ Rajam: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12218360&postcount=1815

Are you asking for whoever was roleblocked to claim? How do you know whether or not the scum switch RB targets? How did you know for sure that Raziek messaged GLG?
Actually, I think it would be a good idea; unlike you or others, I think Nich is more likely to be scum than town. If someone else claims rblocked, that would be a huge connection and info: That would mean: There is in fact a scum rblocker, and very likely Nich and the player who claimed rblocked are town, or if we found out one of them is scum, then it will be very likely both are scum

I'm assuming scum changed targets if Nich claimed not being rblocked. Again, either Nich is lying and therefore is scum, or scum changed targets, or some town ( maybe even indy ) PR affected the scum rblocker ( like faster town rblocker, bus driver, or even indy abductor ). I think that if someone else was rblocked, that person should claim; I'd find that very valuable info. If no one claims rblocked, there could be a chance Nabe was scum rblocker ( assuming Vult and Luxor were mafia-killed and adumb+nabe indy-abducted ). For example if next night we find again there was no one rblocked ( assuming no one was rblocked last Night ), I'd say it's pretty safe to assume Nabe was scum rblocker, and therefore we could proceed by his connections (-> Zen likely town -> OS likely scum )

---

Now, open question: Does anybody believes X1 and OS are both not-scum? Because I really think OS scum <-> X1 town, and OS town <-> X1 scum. Now, with the lack of flips my suspect list keeps like the same as I stated at Twilight 2:

scum: Ran

scummy: FF, Nich

null: Nabe, OS, adumb, RR

likely town: X1, BeatStick, Raziek, Zen, Luxor, Cdubs

town: glg

with:

OS scum if Zen town
X1 scum if Zen scum
RR scum if Zen town

Since I believe Zen was very likely town, that implies OS is scum, and therefore X1 town. I'd say today's lynch must be either OS or X1 ( as per usual I'm willing to lynch Ran as well but I think we need to know who is scum: OS or X1, so I'm willing to leave Ran aside a little toDay ), unless someone comes with new info.

Since we already lynched Zen, and I believe the relation OS - Zen it's pretty much like the relation OS - X1 ( one of them is town meanwhile the other scum ), summing I believe Zen is town, I'd say the safest route toDay is lynching OS

vote: Overswarm

---

Finally, I have certain info from last Night, but revealing it would imply me doing a sort of soft claim. And I want to hear first what OS has to say, as well as listen first who is everybody willing to lynch toDay.
 

Rajam

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OS you confirmed that N1 you received a message from Raziek. Could you tell us if Xiivi mod-confirmed you it was Raziek or not ( at which point did you know it was in fact Raziek ); which info did Xiivi provided you upon sending you that message concerning who the message sender was? ( glg will be able then to corroborate this )
 

Overswarm

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OS you confirmed that N1 you received a message from Raziek. Could you tell us if Xiivi mod-confirmed you it was Raziek or not ( at which point did you know it was in fact Raziek ); which info did Xiivi provided you upon sending you that message concerning who the message sender was? ( glg will be able then to corroborate this )
I received an anonymous message. The message inside said "It's Raziek".


@FF

If Zen's town, my instinct would be to say X1 is town. It goes deeper than that, but I'll not touch that for now.

Can you see X1 being scum despite Zen being town?

I agree that X1's play has been pretty horribad and he drug on a false case for forever, but I think that's more his lack of finesse than scummy behavior.
 

X1-12

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Vote: Overswarm


@FF: I think Luxor was probably town but I'm not sure. Totally fine with him out the way though. I think its possible Vig didn't have a firm choice on N1, or 'had no balls' as everyone is saying.
 

Beat!

Smash Master
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Do you not believe Nich when he says Zen is town from his result?

When did you first suspect Raz might be scum?
Raz "backed off" Zen's case at the end of D2, way BEFORE Nich said Zen was confirmed town. So in this particular case I don't think it makes much difference if Nich is lying or not. Raz-scum would be a possibility either way. That being said, I believe Nich. For now, at least

I had some suspicions on Raz during D1, but I don't remember exactly when the thought ocurred to me the first time.

I wanna hear Ran's thoughts when he gets back from Pound 5.
 

X1-12

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Rajam said:
Actually, I think it would be a good idea; unlike you or others, I think Nich is more likely to be scum than town. If someone else claims rblocked, that would be a huge connection and info: That would mean: There is in fact a scum rblocker, and very likely Nich and the player who claimed rblocked are town, or if we found out one of them is scum, then it will be very likely both are scum

I'm assuming scum changed targets if Nich claimed not being rblocked. Again, either Nich is lying and therefore is scum, or scum changed targets, or some town ( maybe even indy ) PR affected the scum rblocker ( like faster town rblocker, bus driver, or even indy abductor ). I think that if someone else was rblocked, that person should claim; I'd find that very valuable info. If no one claims rblocked, there could be a chance Nabe was scum rblocker ( assuming Vult and Luxor were mafia-killed and adumb+nabe indy-abducted ). For example if next night we find again there was no one rblocked ( assuming no one was rblocked last Night ), I'd say it's pretty safe to assume Nabe was scum rblocker, and therefore we could proceed by his connections (-> Zen likely town -> OS likely scum )
I see what you are saying here, however I think following this path makes too many assumptions about the set-up. The roleblocker could be one shot, or part of a scum JoaT or something. We've already seen two flips of unconventional roles. Its not safe to assume that the RB is just a standard RB like you might find in other games, there are too many unknowns.
 

Cdubs1987

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@ FF

What do you think of the interaction between OS and I?

What do you think of him saying I look scummy for bringing up the abductor, when you brought up the abductor?

What do you think about my initial reads on him scum hunting?
 

giraffelasergun

Smash Lord
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Messages
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OS you confirmed that N1 you received a message from Raziek. Could you tell us if Xiivi mod-confirmed you it was Raziek or not ( at which point did you know it was in fact Raziek ); which info did Xiivi provided you upon sending you that message concerning who the message sender was? ( glg will be able then to corroborate this )
Xiivi only said that the message was anonymous.
 

ranmaru

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I'll post tonight. I have a laptop, so I will be on. : ] I have class now.
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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6/11 | 03.02.11 11:59AM EST

votee|voters
X1-12|frozenflame751/

Overswarm|Rajam/X1-12/

No Vote|giraffelasergun/Cdubs1987/Raziek/Ranmaru/Nicholas1024/Overswarm/BeatStick/Red Ryu/
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Finally, I have certain info from last Night, but revealing it would imply me doing a sort of soft claim. And I want to hear first what OS has to say, as well as listen first who is everybody willing to lynch toDay.
I still distrust Nich because he claims to have a PR role yet he hasn't posted any information, also scum has been ignoring him.

I'm waiting to see Ran's post before I say anything regarding him.

Nich/Ranmaru basically.
 

Cdubs1987

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See above post. See the lack of sense it makes. like this

I still distrust Nich because he claims to have a PR role yet he hasn't posted any information, also scum has been ignoring him.
What was the first post of the day? I think it was this

The good news is that I wasn' roleblocked last night, I got the coroner off.

The bad news is that Zen WAS indeed town, and I am now voteblocked.

Here, look.

Vote: Nich
Nich posted that.

@RYU, explain the lack of attention before posting

@FF, if you had to choose between lynching RYU and OS, who gets your vote and why? Also, respond to my 1848 and explain your thoughts about the interaction between me and OS.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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He posted he was voteblocked, that's it. It still doesn't prove his role nor am I seeing much to say he is for sure town.

His play D1 was not townie at all, his D2 play in the earlier stage kept to his D1 scum behavior. He claims roleblocked. then D3 uses his power on Zen and still doesn't verify what his role is, if he was Scum he could easily say Zen was town because is he was scum he know who is scum buddies are.

His info only clear Zen, not himself.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Also reason I have not focused on you as much, I've seen others more worth tunneling over you, however that may change depending on what all these hidden things people are saying right now regarding info.
 

Cdubs1987

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RYU, nich is nearly confirmed town. No one was voteblocked yesterday. No one targeted Zen. Again, no one was voteblocked yesterday which implies we do not have a normal voteblocker. Nich IS voteblocked today, and says it is for targeting zen. Xivii has shown us that Nich is voteblocked. This implies he truly has the coroner ability, which would be a very strange ability for mafia to have.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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I'm not doubting Zen is town or the role he had, I'm doubting Nich's because his power or alignment isn't confirmed because he did that action.

I'm not saying coroner ability is what he has, I think it's quite possible he has a different role that worked for that situation.
 

Rajam

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Mmmm willing to give Nich town points now that is mod-confirmed ha can't vote. Also whatever ability he has, he can target dead people like Zen so it's very likely his claim is true

OS, you should just claim whatever you said you were going to say toDay. Idk what are you waiting for
 

ranmaru

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I forgot about Luxor, actually. I was thinking of posting a scumpick list that was bigger, but not better. Will do so anyways.

X1: Was butthurt that Zen was being lynched. Why was he so dissapointed? I didn't know he would miss him so much.

Beatstick: I haven't seen him post much only to see him responding to my questions. I thought he would have had a connection with Luxor, but now Luxor is gone.

FF - What do you guys think of FF? I think he is being anti-town in that he is very inactive. I just have a hard time getting back into the game since it's so large. That is all.

I had nabe on there too, but he is also gone. (He wagoned the whole game, yet tunneled on Zen without voting him)


Zen said that we should lynch OS toDAY, but I'm wary of what alignment he may be.

For example, since Luxor and Nabe were taken away, that must mean they are town. So, luckily Mafia can't know what roles were cut off.

I was also thinking ??? could be power roles, but yet Vult Reviver seems like a powerrole. Hmmmm.

Even so, it makes it hard for us to garner info. I still don't really know what Zen's alignment could have been, yet I want to see OS post his thoughts on this.
 

Overswarm

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...


Nich is town
X1 is town
CDubs is scum

but...

vote Ranmaru

Ran, reread your last post and please clarify anything you feel needs further clarification.
 

ranmaru

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I don't need to re-read it, I know what I post. Btw that isn't a valid reason to vote me.

Why do you think I should re-read it?

Also, what has changed about your read on me?

And why had your indie tell on Cdubs changed to scum?
 

Overswarm

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Indie is scum, Ran. Scum is any non-town faction.

You're positive that your previous post is completely thought out? No missing information?
 

Overswarm

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There's only three possible explanations I can think of if I'm understanding your post correctly. This is doubly confusing for me but...

either you're my friend from before
you're not paying attention to the game entirely and just posted to post
you're scum

Friend or foe, Ran?
 

ranmaru

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Nope no missing info.

Now what do you think is wrong with it? Give an example.

Friend from before? What do you mean? Elaborate.
 

ranmaru

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I don't know what you are trying to establish, OS.
 

ranmaru

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Also could you answer my question? You seemed to skip to talking about your vote. I never asked about that.

State what scummy action I have done from that post which worries you. (with examples)
 

ranmaru

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Vote: Overswarm


@FF: I think Luxor was probably town but I'm not sure. Totally fine with him out the way though. I think its possible Vig didn't have a firm choice on N1, or 'had no balls' as everyone is saying.
How could Luxor have been murdered if he wasn't town?
 

ranmaru

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I received an anonymous message. The message inside said "It's Raziek".


@FF

If Zen's town, my instinct would be to say X1 is town. It goes deeper than that, but I'll not touch that for now.

Can you see X1 being scum despite Zen being town?

I agree that X1's play has been pretty horribad and he drug on a false case for forever, but I think that's more his lack of finesse than scummy behavior.
Btw, can the mod confirm that you got this message?
 

Overswarm

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We know Nich's alignment coincides with Zen's. They are not necessarily opposites or synonymous with one another, but Nich's alignment is telling of Zen's.

We know that Zen's ability, at least in part, is as it was described.

There are alternatives to that truth; I am aware of this. But the idea that there is a voteblocker of some sort that refused to use his ability until after his scummate Zen was dead only to use it on Nicholas to verify Zen's fake claim? That's too far fetched for me to believe with the information we currently have. It is far from the optimal play with such abilities, and as such I am discounting that.

This leads to the question of what alignment Nich is. If Zen was telling the truth about his ability, which I have presumed and explained above, Nich must have targetted him after Zen was dead. While it is possible Nich has a Day action, that Day action wouldn't affect him toDay unless Zen's ability was different than claimed or the aforementioned vote blocker exists. I deny the existence of either of those possibilities, and thus presume Nich's ability is as explained. As such, one can assume that Nich is town.

There are alternatives to that truth; I am aware of this as well. It is easily possible that Nich fake claimed his other ability and his coroner ability was actual. Given the amount of ??? flips this game has currently shown, it is not out of the realm of possibility that the mafia faction has been given some sort of ability that allows them to see the results of ??? flips. This is especially true given the existence of an abductor. This is also possible given multiple mafia factions, but we have no evidence of that as of yet.

Given the above information, I am inclined to stick with my original belief that Nich is town. I called his play as a town power role early on and this has resulted in confirmation over the course of the game.

The rest of this post assumes this information to be accurate and is important when viewing Ranmaru's post.

I forgot about Luxor, actually. I was thinking of posting a scumpick list that was bigger, but not better. Will do so anyways.
Luxor flipped ???. I'm not sure what Ran is referencing here. Ignored for now, even though it is confusing to see "I forgot about Luxor, actually" in response to.... no one.

More important for now is "I was thinking of posting a scumpick list that was bigger, but not better". I am under the assumption Ran is posting a full read on anything he has any feelings about.

X1: Was butthurt that Zen was being lynched. Why was he so dissapointed? I didn't know he would miss him so much.
X1 and Zen have been linked from the beginning in an odd pairing. I am aware that X1 is town; as such, this stands out to me.

What is Ran leading here? He is planting a seed, but Zen's alignment is hidden.

Beatstick: I haven't seen him post much only to see him responding to my questions. I thought he would have had a connection with Luxor, but now Luxor is gone.
Why a connection with Luxor? This is not explained in the slightest. He makes a blanket statement about Beatstick and connects him with Luxor, who was not in a favorable light prior to his death. This is despite Beatstick's argument against X1 being a sizeable amount of FF's post which is pretty evident that Beatstick isn't just answering Ranmaru's questions.

FF - What do you guys think of FF? I think he is being anti-town in that he is very inactive. I just have a hard time getting back into the game since it's so large. That is all.
FF is pretty inactive, this is true. I am not a stranger to FF's play and am aware that inactivity on his part is not something to be looked too deeply into. It's possible Ranmaru is not aware, but I doubt it. We've talked of FF's inactivity being common in this very game already.

I had nabe on there too, but he is also gone. (He wagoned the whole game, yet tunneled on Zen without voting him)
Again, insinuating that Zen is of anti-town alignment.

So from this post we can see:

Luxor scum
Beatstick scum
Nabe scum
Zen scum
X1 - Zen link
FF scum seed planted


FF's scum seed planted with generic statements. Luxor and Nabe both mentioned offhand, not directly. Zen declared scum directly. X1 and Beatstick scum by association with Zen / Luxor respectively.

In short, Ran's post is full of leading statements and assumes Nich and Zen are scum while simultaneously leading thoughts towards four to five people being thought of as scummy with two people of that group merely by association with players who are already dead and alignment is unknown.

Why would a town member consider Zen and Luxor's ??? flips to be of anti-town alignment?

Why would a town member whose entire posts revolves around Zen's alignment being anti-town (and because of that, Nich's) fan out in this manner?


This is topped by the fact that Nich and X1 are both town.

CDubs is also noticeably absent from that post, and CDubs is scum.

Ran said:
Zen said that we should lynch OS toDAY, but I'm wary of what alignment he may be.
Dun dun dunnnnn....

Why?

For example, since Luxor and Nabe were taken away, that must mean they are town. So, luckily Mafia can't know what roles were cut off.
Oh wait, what? Har har har.

Obviously the abductor is part of the mafia right? It's totally fair to give mafia a ton of janitorial roles and let them abduct and night kill at the same time!

tl;dr

conflicts with earlier statements in the same post about Nabe
assumes abductor is mafia

Laughably transparent.

I was also thinking ??? could be power roles, but yet Vult Reviver seems like a powerrole. Hmmmm.
Don't be so naive.

Even so, it makes it hard for us to garner info. I still don't really know what Zen's alignment could have been, yet I want to see OS post his thoughts on this.
Here they ****ing are.

Ran is of anti-town alignment.

Ran wagon get.
 

ranmaru

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@OS:

Well I know Abductor can take away people, but can mafia do such things to other mafia to confuse us?

Also I have nothing on Cdubs.

X1 is still scum to me. I don't know why you think he's town.

I don't know why X1 would react in that way. Can you tell me why X1 felt strongly about that, even to consider replacing out?

I meant I was wary of Zen's alignment, so I can't really just assume he was legit trying to catch scum when I don't even have info to go off of.

I don't know what janitors do. This is my first time with these ??? flips.

What do you mean naive? I don't know what those ??? mean. I'm trying to think of what they could mean.

I said since Luxor and Nabe were taken away, they couldn't possibly be mafia since mafia can't do that to themselves.

It's weird that FF hasn't been nk'd tonite either.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Also, I had previous stances on Zen and Luxor. Why should I consider them town asap?

Also, I have a hard time getting town reads. So mostly you'll see scummy and null reads in my scumpicks. I might have town reads, but I can't really "pick up" town reads.


Meaning that my list would have been better if Nabe and Luxor weren't taken away. Which would also mean I was wrong, too. But I am ok with making a big list, since this is a large game.

Also, I connect Beat with Luxor because Beat had always thought of Luxor as town, and they both wagoned on me with Zen, but then doubted Zen after that. Never did they doubt him before that.
 

Overswarm

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@OS:

Well I know Abductor can take away people, but can mafia do such things to other mafia to confuse us?
Yes, and the US government destroyed the World Trade Center so they could go to war with Iraq.

Also I have nothing on Cdubs.
Funny you didn't attempt to remedy that.

X1 is still scum to me. I don't know why you think he's town.
Doesn't matter why I think he's town, matters why you think he's scum.

I don't know why X1 would react in that way. Can you tell me why X1 felt strongly about that, even to consider replacing out?
You say you don't know why, but you claim to know the end result?

I meant I was wary of Zen's alignment, so I can't really just assume he was legit trying to catch scum when I don't even have info to go off of.
Why not? Nich is town. How is Zen not?

I don't know what janitors do. This is my first time with these ??? flips.
Good thing we didn't discuss this throughout the game or anything.

What do you mean naive?
I laughed XD

I don't know what those ??? mean. I'm trying to think of what they could mean.
Don't believe you.

I said since Luxor and Nabe were taken away, they couldn't possibly be mafia since mafia can't do that to themselves.
Uh huh.

@OS:

Well I know Abductor can take away people, but can mafia do such things to other mafia to confuse us?
You seem to be moving two directions with that thought process.

It's weird that FF hasn't been nk'd tonite either.
Now WTF does that mean?

Also, I had previous stances on Zen and Luxor. Why should I consider them town asap?
Ran said:
How could Luxor have been murdered if he wasn't town?
Oh, I dunno, because you just said he was town.

Too easy.

Also, I have a hard time getting town reads. So mostly you'll see scummy and null reads in my scumpicks. I might have town reads, but I can't really "pick up" town reads.
*facepalm*

Meaning that my list would have been better if Nabe and Luxor weren't taken away. Which would also mean I was wrong, too. But I am ok with making a big list, since this is a large game.
I don't know why this is here.

Also, I connect Beat with Luxor because Beat had always thought of Luxor as town, and they both wagoned on me with Zen, but then doubted Zen after that. Never did they doubt him before that.
This is insanely arbitrary.
 

ranmaru

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Hmmm, I wouldn't know. Also, why that comment?

Yes your x1 read does matter.

I never said I knew of a end result. I asked why would X1 react so strangely, yet you don't question that.

So you say Zen is town because Nich is town? Yet you yourself said Zen was obv scum?

People always say FF is first nite kill. I was reading another game and saw mentions of FF always dying first nite. Basically meta.

No, I would think that my reads were wrong because I thought the people who were taken away and murdered were town. (Because I thought mafia can't kill other mafia)

It's there to explain why you thought I said "the list wasn't as good as I wanted to be"

Those are my thoughts.
 

Overswarm

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I never said I knew of a end result. I asked why would X1 react so strangely, yet you don't question that.
Ahem.

you said:
I don't know why X1 would react in that way. Can you tell me why X1 felt strongly about that, even to consider replacing out?
you RIGHT BEFORE YOU SAID THE PREVIOUS QUOTE said:
X1 is still scum to me. I don't know why you think he's town.
Try not to contradict yourself in the same paragraph.

So you say Zen is town because Nich is town? Yet you yourself said Zen was obv scum?
Yes, and Zen was obviously scum. That's why over half the town voted for him. Nich simply cleared him and it is now apparent that Zen was just playing poorly.

People always say FF is first nite kill. I was reading another game and saw mentions of FF always dying first nite. Basically meta.
The only ones that "meta" would apply to are myselfa nd possibly Vult, who already flipped. Those who are not familiar with FF would not feel the same way.

No, I would think that my reads were wrong because I thought the people who were taken away and murdered were town. (Because I thought mafia can't kill other mafia)
Those are my thoughts.
C-

Try harder! :)
-Mr. Overswarm
 

ranmaru

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Yet I never said he wasn't scum for acting in that way. I still don't know why he would do that, get it?

"I don't know why X1 would react in that way. Can you tell me why X1 felt strongly about that, even to consider replacing out? "

this in no way implies I know of his alignment. It states that I don't know why he would go for that.

Meaning, what was his intent there? For example, I was thinking he might have been trying to seem town by making that big commotion, and he hasn't replaced at all.

Or maybe he was really sad that his buddy Zen was lynched. I don't know WHY that would affect him in any way.
 

ranmaru

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Ah, well FF was in SC. Although he was a Ghost in that one.

And I'll have to re-read nich's result.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Yet I never said he wasn't scum for acting in that way. I still don't know why he would do that, get it?

"I don't know why X1 would react in that way. Can you tell me why X1 felt strongly about that, even to consider replacing out? "

this in no way implies I know of his alignment. It states that I don't know why he would go for that.

Meaning, what was his intent there? For example, I was thinking he might have been trying to seem town by making that big commotion, and he hasn't replaced at all.

Or maybe he was really sad that his buddy Zen was lynched. I don't know WHY that would affect him in any way.
...

YOU said:
X1 is still scum to me. I don't know why you think he's town.
You said that right before you said "I don't know why X1 would react in that way".
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,022
Location
Southampton, UK
@Rajam: Did OS find Ran scummy yesterDay? Did Ran play noticeably different to how he did toDay? Of all the tells OS is now calling Ran out for, did Ran not exhibit all of those yesterDay?




FF where you at?

Raziek where you at?

Cdubs where you at?

other Lurkers/Inactives, where you at?
 
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