Focusing on Metaknight's weaknesses

[Judo777]

Judo. Multi hit moves go through Glide attack. secondly your argument for drill rush being ' i think that you make it sound easier than it is.' doesnt really hold weight. Sonic's fair easily beats drill rush head on. Heck we can reverse fair it from below and stage spike (Sonics drop down fair goes through nado VERY well btw). D3's dair goes through drill rush. some smashes that can be tilted down go through drill rush. Im not saying every character has an easy answer to it like Sonic, but there are definitely some options people need to explore ( just curious, can Sheik Needle it?).

Also an MK isnt going to waste all his jumps returning to the ledge. why? because if he gets hit, even he is put into a bad position. I really dont get why you think edgehogging the cape bad, you get to ledge jump aerial for free. Same with nado. theres no mix up if you just aerial OoS or do an usmash before he can cross you up. You only allow MK to get that mix up when you are greedy and want a ground punish. Even then, there are dsmashes capable of covering both sides.

All Im saying is there are definite punishments for MK's 'invincible' recovery. People also need to realize that dependent on his height and distance, some recovery options are instantly lost. If an MK is hit at a low trajectory, hes not going to be SL u down there, hes not going to be nadoing, no caping, just really his jumps and side b.

I hope you understand Judo; im not saying all this is a walk in a park. I however do believe MK's recoveries dont get punished as much as they should. I do think it would be nice to have some sort of guide stating what characters options are vs certain recoveries. I have yet to see a D3 dair drill rush, ( granted im not watching tons of D3 vs MK and im sure the top D3s know this) it would be good to have this info compiled up. Theres tons of people still not sure how to beat out certain options ( i still see people getting owned by the low reverse SL recovery on to the stage).

Well D3's dair doesn't surprise me at all since its the highest priority (aka most dijointed) downward move in the game. Sonics fair is harder to believe but I'll take your word for it. And no an MK will GLADLY use all his jumps getting to the ledge because he has NO commitment while jumping. Why would he commit to a glide or a b move when he can jump and 2 frame uair anything you try when he sees you move for it. Uair beats EVERYTHING (except maybe D3 dair and a few other moves). Like MK should never do other moves to get to the ledge if he can jump because MK can jump and uair almost completely safely.


I said nado was a bad recovery option its just better than most of mid tiers recovery options.

Lastly you shouldn't be able to free aerial MK's down B everytime. There are lag frames that you can't avoid. Like I said MK is only going to down B to the ledge if he thinks it is safe since he will never HAVE to. he may misjudge your run speed and you might BARELY beat him to the ledge (which is certainly possible) but then you are going to be stuck on the ledge for the 20-some frame before you can even let go of the ledge. It not like your gonna be hanging there the whole time waiting for him to down B he will just hit you off or SL for trying that crap. Some characters might get a punish but it won't be a big punish.

Most importantly tho MK shouldn't be getting hit out of his recovery almost ever because unlike almost every other character in the game he never HAS to commit to almost anything. He should ideally be jump uairing his way to the ledge all day (which he can) and if he sees its very clear then save some time and use one of those other moves.

Rule of smash (including the MK ditto) MK's uair beats pretty much everything. Not only in frames and range but the fact that he never HAS to commit to anything.

 

[B.A.M.]

Running and edgehogging for invincibility frames. You speak of the frames for the edge grab but you never speak of the frames used during down b.

Mks uair is definitely safe, however from a horizontal angle there are opening for disjointed moves like bairs or fairs. Of course use of DJ to punish the uair on reaction is strongly encourage since DJ is one frame.


Again Judo I'm not saying its easy. But there are definitely scenarios where mk can be punished that we've seen.Besides how many. Mks do you see recovering without a b move? People need to know how to punish these scenarios regardless

 

[Judo777]

Running and edgehogging for invincibility frames. You speak of the frames for the edge grab but you never speak of the frames used during down b.

Mks uair is definitely safe, however from a horizontal angle there are opening for disjointed moves like bairs or fairs. Of course use of DJ to punish the uair on reaction is strongly encourage since DJ is one frame.


Again Judo I'm not saying its easy. But there are definitely scenarios where mk can be punished that we've seen.Besides how many. Mks do you see recovering without a b move? People need to know how to punish these scenarios regardless

No i realize down B has some lag. But grabbing the ledge then letting go of the ledge then DJing then doing an aerial has more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5UO6QIlPHM&feature=related

watch in this video. When an MK player is fighting someone who they feel can threaten them at the ledge they never do a B move til they are positive it is clear. @ :47 he glide low then cancels his glide. He then jumps 3 times in place while throwing uairs until he sees ally get off the ledge then he SLs. Ally does the same thing at 2:01. Granted in this match there is also alot of commiting early on Zex's part but part of that was because Ally was forcing it and also perhaps Zex was scared.

I just picked a random video but I'm telling you more often than not good MK's don't commit to doing a b move unless they are positive it is safe.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

All this thread does is let Mk mains
think we are afraid.


The little monster has no weakness. Just the mortal player.

 

[B.A.M.]

No i realize down B has some lag. But grabbing the ledge then letting go of the ledge then DJing then doing an aerial has more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5UO6QIlPHM&feature=related

watch in this video. When an MK player is fighting someone who they feel can threaten them at the ledge they never do a B move til they are positive it is clear. @ :47 he glide low then cancels his glide. He then jumps 3 times in place while throwing uairs until he sees ally get off the ledge then he SLs. Ally does the same thing at 2:01. Granted in this match there is also alot of commiting early on Zex's part but part of that was because Ally was forcing it and also perhaps Zex was scared.

I just picked a random video but I'm telling you more often than not good MK's don't commit to doing a b move unless they are positive it is safe.

No no i get what you are talking about. And from that position it is definitely really strong, although I do believe ledgedropping invincible aerial would be good there (Larry does this a ton). I guess coming from playing Sonic and ZSS, I immediately rush glides with a run down fair or a side b, respectively. I always attempt to pressure MK when hes way offstage because the risk vs reward assuming you stay in front of him, isnt all that bad so long as you keep him in front of you. Its at the position Ally has at 0:47 when it gets dangerous and few characters ( sonic can spring fortunately) can touch MK. Without glide MK isnt getting to that 'safe' area so easily. Uair is amazing, but not so much at the sides. We can both agree when MK is near the edge in that position its better to prep for damaging while he fights to get back on stage for most characters. I do believe Judo that most people dont account for the fact that dependent on where MK is offstage, he is indeed limited.

 

[link2702]

??


metaknight has weaknesses?

 

[Life]

^MK lacks a projectile, this is a weakness. His aerial mobility isn't fantastic either...

 

[link2702]

His aerial mobility isn't fantastic either...

tornado says hi

 

[Kantrip]

Tornado doesn't improve his aerial mobility.

 

[army man]

tornado is one of his worst aerial options.

 

[Life]

-died- @ nado making MK's aerial mobility good

I'd at least understand if you said glide, but srs.

 

[Damix91]

Stop wasting your time. There isn't a wealth of knowledge of how to defeat MK out there that is thus far undiscovered. He has the most well known matchup because of his tournament popularity and it has been discussed and re discussed by every character board more than any other matchups.

 

[Crizthakidd]

if u dont think meta gets more mobility with nado, theres a reason your loosing. i didint know how to approach marth/luigi stuff like that until i saw wait... nado can move me in fast enough and cover their options! lol

 

[Judo777]

if u dont think meta gets more mobility with nado, theres a reason your loosing. i didint know how to approach marth/luigi stuff like that until i saw wait... nado can move me in fast enough and cover their options! lol

MK doesn;t approach Luigi, nor does anyone ever thats why he's bad.

 

[Life]

if u dont think meta gets more mobility with nado, theres a reason your loosing. i didint know how to approach marth/luigi stuff like that until i saw wait... nado can move me in fast enough and cover their options! lol

LOL, Marth _crushes_ reckless nadoing. I don't know who your Marth is, but they're probably bad. And like Judo said, you don't approach Luigi if you can help it.

MK does technically move faster in nado, but he gives up a lot of commitment and options in the process, which is why, overall, his aerial mobility is still meh. Not trash, mind you, but nothing compared to characters with actual high aerial mobility like Wario.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

yeah his mobility in the air might suck but his aerial moveset
more than makes up for it.

 

[Kantrip]

More like his aerial moveset overcompensates for a flaw he doesn't possess.

 

[san.]

If nado wasn't so speedy in the air, horizontal spacing against him would be a much simpler task. Nado can accelerate pretty quickly, making possibly well spaced zoning on MK riskier.

 

[B.A.M.]

More like his aerial moveset overcompensates for a flaw he doesn't possess.

his aerial mobility is definitely a flaw............ can you imagine meta with wario mobility? or even decent aerial mobility?

 

[Judo777]

his aerial mobility is definitely a flaw............ can you imagine meta with wario mobility? or even decent aerial mobility?

true but can you imagine anyone with a half way decent moveset with warios aerial mobility. Wario's moves aren't THAT good (he has probably 6 or 7 moves that I would say are outstandingly good) and he is top tier mostly due to his airspeed. Luigi with Wario airspeed would be the best character in the game.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

true but can you imagine anyone with a half way decent moveset with warios aerial mobility. Wario's moves aren't THAT good (he has probably 6 or 7 moves that I would say are outstandingly good) and he is top tier mostly due to his airspeed. Luigi with Wario airspeed would be the best character in the game.

Not to mention his camp game and .... one hit kill.
He times out pretty well too.

 

[Judo777]

Not to mention his camp game and .... one hit kill.
He times out pretty well too.

well waft is one of those moves i listed and his camp game is pretty much only existent due to his airspeed.

 

[B.A.M.]

true but can you imagine anyone with a half way decent moveset with warios aerial mobility. Wario's moves aren't THAT good (he has probably 6 or 7 moves that I would say are outstandingly good) and he is top tier mostly due to his airspeed. Luigi with Wario airspeed would be the best character in the game.

Yes Judo i know lol. The point is that MKs air speed is a definite flaw and is something we all as players can work with whether is SDI vs MK's juggles. or realizing you can simply walk away from MK Dairing above you, etc. Again not the greatest flaw, but it is something.

Also something to note, MK's dash shield isnt spectacular so with the proper spacing you can fill up the area with a good tilt which will shut down a lot of his dash approaches. Of course MK can just attempt to walk in and tilt but it helps combat that pressure knowing his dash approaches are limited.