Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[ShroudedOne]

SDI'ing the shines is probably the most important part, as hard as you can. Just try to DI away from him, but be able to react to early downsmashes/forwardsmashes, and change your DI up. You also have to assess when it's good to DI towards the edge, versus not. I'm sure someone has way more than that to give you, though.

 

[Bones0]

SDI dairs to make the shine miss is even better at the low %s. I've had people SDI the **** out of my shines, but I can still follow up most of the time. When they SDI my dair and my shine whiffs it completely ends the combo unless they utilt instead of shine for some reason.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Can't you react to the SDI on the dair and just grab/dtilt? Or do you need a hard read for that?

 

[Bones0]

I was mostly talking about SDI behind. You might be able to react to it depending on how long it takes for them to move after you dair, but either way, getting grabbed or even d/utilted is usually better than letting him continue to carry you across the stage uncontested.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I was thinking that DI'ing against his momentum was the best "away," but that didn't sound right to me for some reason. Thanks.

 

[commonyoshi]

Haha, I usually just DI one way until I reach the edge of the stage and then DI the other way. Should I stop doing this? And should I start taking platforms into account?

 

[Bones0]

Javi vs. Tuga (aka Twin) Stream!
(First Fox match at 12:30)

It depends on which part of the dair they hit and how far you DI'd the previous shine. If I hit you with the front of my shine and you DI it really far in front of me, I will barely be able to reach you with the dair. So if I am barely tipping you with the dair, SDIing it will make it so the shine is pretty much guaranteed to miss. If you only slightly DI the shine, the Falco might overshoot his dair (anticipating further DI) and if he is really far into your body really high off the ground when you SDI, you can go back into him and as he falls to the ground he won't be close enough to hit with the back of his shine.

It's a lot of little spacing variables that you kind of just have to understand intuitively through practice. Especially when you add in how the Falco is waveshining, there are a lot more things both players have to watch for.

@commonyoshi
Yes, you should stop. A good Falco will destroy you for DIing in at the ledge if you do it every time. If there are platforms, you can pretty easily escape onto them. I am pretty sure that even on DL from 0%, after one dair-shine, the next dair-shine iteration will pop you up high enough to land on the platform. Falco's punish is much weaker off of platforms than it is off of the ground, and the extra shine-waveland he will have to add in makes his shine stale that much faster (meaning he will have to start utilting or doing other stuff to continue the combo).

@17:25 in the stream, there's a perfect example where Javi SDIs Tuga's dair behind him.

 

[rjgbadger]

is pivoting useful at all? I realized I can pivot jab surprisingly consistantly(and pivot just about everything too) and wondered if something like dash away pivot jab>usmash/grab/shine would work?

 

[voorhese]

Pivots are really good, pivot nair is strong, pivot ftilt, pivot upsmash, pivot grabs, etc. I haven't really seen pivot jab used effectively, or pivot shine. you can just jc shine and in any situation you could pivot.

 

[rjgbadger]

I didn't mean pivot shine, rather pivot jab into shine. ftilt pivot is hard tho, I could only manage 3 in a row compared to 15 pivot jabs(working at it for ~5min, just pivot moves)

 

[omgwtfToph]

it is times like this when lovage used to come into this thread to say "this thread sucks omfg talk about something else"

 

[Lovage]

the only thing i'd say now is "hard read" is one of my most hated phrases lol

 

[Turazrok]

What are some of the most effective ways to approach on falco asides powershielding lasers?

 

[DerfMidWest]

OK! I tried practicing all my crap and fast falling and l-canceling better, and then I went to a tourney on saturday.
I think this is the only game that I played fox that was recorded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=515q-zH8_Jo

so yea, critique would be nice...
I was a little nervous because it was tournament (even though this was just friendlies) and I mess up my tech skill a bit and sometimes did stupid stuff (like jump off the ledge and let him live longer last stock)

 

[omgwtfToph]

I was a little nervous because it was tournament (even though this was just friendlies))

???????????

 

[Cactuar]

He was at a tournament playing friendly matches.

 

[omgwtfToph]

!!!!

THANKS CACTUAR

It is 6:50 in the morning. I am having trouble with this sort of thing.

 

[DerfMidWest]

oh sorry if i wasn't very clear .-.

 

[Bing]

Aesir: Your wavedashing is still a bit choppy so put a bit of work into that. That last stock you were trying to force that last ko and it almost cost you. Stay smart at all the times, 1 knee and you were done. You might also look into using more grabs and upairs, i dont recall seeing too many..

 

[Bing]

Sorry for the double post

You've never gone even with my Sheik.

I smell a MM.

mmmmmmm money maaaaaaatch!!!

Ill bite. Lets go

Will still be fun anyways

 

[Crooked Crow]

How much money are you willing to bet? Bo3?

 

[Redd]

the only thing i'd say now is "hard read" is one of my most hated phrases lol

This man knows what's up. Looooool @ annoying terms that aren't actually annoying.

Guys fox is too hard. =(

 

[Cactuar]

Why don't you like the term hard read?

 

[Bones0]

Because hard reading is for Falcon mains and scrubs only.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Hard reads are so good for fox. Just usmash a lot, even if they shield they can't punish.

 

[FluxWolf]

i have no mind games and dont play gay enough. i lost to ****ties. someone please give me some overall mindset advice to help me turn around my game >.<

its like the only times i beat good players is when i dont give a **** and dont even wanna play.. but when i do really wanna play i dont play gay enough

edit: there are no vids, as i didnt make it out of pools at SMYM. losing to j00ts falcon/Rats Samus/Dekuscrub Falco&Marth (top 3 advanced was them)

I'm seriously contemplating becoming a Marth or Shiek main and having Fox be my secondary.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I just use hard read to mean "guess." Sorry, Lovage.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Aesir: Your wavedashing is still a bit choppy so put a bit of work into that. That last stock you were trying to force that last ko and it almost cost you. Stay smart at all the times, 1 knee and you were done. You might also look into using more grabs and upairs, i dont recall seeing too many..

yea i was nervous and wasn't thinking too much about grabs...
I just wanted to kill him by last stock, and because of that I got crapped on.

I was mostly just trying to get him offstage, since i find it easier to kill falcon that way.

By choppy do you mean I mess up? because I don't really mess up like that normally...
not sure why I messed up so much here.

 

[unknown522]

the only thing i'd say now is "hard read" is one of my most hated phrases lol

Me too

 

[SSBM_or_GTFO]

By choppy wavedash he means, when you wavedash, your character rises up ever so slightly before you air dodge instead of just sliding along the ground immediately.

 

[Lovage]

Why don't you like the term hard read?

cuz it means the exact same thing but it sounds cooler so ppl are gonna say it for no reason, also it makes reading ur opponent sound like some difficult, risky, gamble when in reality it's a fking fighting game so there's no reason for it to be uncommon at all

and it sounds hella gay
very much unlike hard gay, which is really sick


edit: btw i mean no ire towards shroudedone lol, he just reminded me how that phrase blowz

 

[omgwtfToph]

Hard read FOOOOOOOOOoooooooo~

 

[Cactuar]

I dunno. Hard read to me is knowing that the opponent is going to choose one option.

A normal read is when I remove some number of options and still have to react to at least 2 different possibilities.

The difference between these two is that I'll go to the first one and fully charge something, while the latter I'll just dash and upsmash with y+c.

I make this distinction, but I guess most people don't...

 

[FoxLisk]

the way i use the phrase "hard read" is to mean a situation where I commit to an action based on what I expect my opponent to do so fully that if I am wrong I will definitely get no punish and will possibly actually be punished in return. thus the idea of 'hard.' if i just go to cover one or two options but can still apply pressure or whatever if they choose another one i don't say hard read.

 

[Cactuar]

I think you mean to say commit. If I'm guessing between a few options before going and charging upsmash, I'm committing to that upsmash. I'm not reading anything. Just guessing and making a committed choice.

 

[rokimomi]

lol, what about "the hardest read"

 

[JPOBS]

Commitment is part of a hard read imho. That's what makes it 'hard' I guess you could say.

I'm with Foxlisk. If im pressuring someone's shield and then wavedash back and start charging Upsmash, I'd call that a hard read because its all or nothing. Eithe rI upsmash them by reading their roll well in advance, or I don't and I get punished for it.

This is different from say, Falcon stomping a tech away when you simply tech'd in place. Neither player gets hit and neither player can directly counterattack.

This is the hardest read right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9CjIuPQfU8#t=1m38s
lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'm with cactuar. Hard read is just a level of certainty, not committal, though sometimes they go hand in hand

 

[Lovage]

I dunno. Hard read to me is knowing that the opponent is going to choose one option.

A normal read is when I remove some number of options and still have to react to at least 2 different possibilities.

The difference between these two is that I'll go to the first one and fully charge something, while the latter I'll just dash and upsmash with y+c.

I make this distinction, but I guess most people don't...

not only does no one besides you make this distinction, your definition of a "normal read" doesn't sound like a read at all to me. making them choose between 2 things and then reacting to what they do is like the opposite of a read lol, that's just good gameplay.

and if this discussion goes on for another 3 posts im gonna put a gun in my ****ing mouth

 

[omgwtfToph]

my read is soooo fkn hard right now