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Good S*** Stratford! 130 total entrants, full results up!

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DtJ Jungle

DtJ Jungle

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Should also probably state, though this should be clear by now, that we won't let anyone buy a spot in the bracket >_>
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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I'm not a big fan of the hybrid loser bracket system. From a TO's standpoint, it takes more time for the losers bracket to be played with basically no benefit to the players. From a player's standpoint, it is much more difficult to maintain stamina throughout the tournament since you will have to play more people without breaks between.

Overall it seems like more stress and more work for everyone involved, and will not effect the top 3 placings anyways.
 
Tewx2

Tewx2

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Yoooooo any brawl players trying to MM me at this?

Also Juggle why am I in the category for bringing a pchord/Extension? I mean I can bring one just kind of weird. Also ill be bringing a brawl set-up minus TV(probably gonna "borrow" one from my good friend mason).
 
Juggleguy

Juggleguy

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Sveet said:
I'm not a big fan of the hybrid loser bracket system. From a TO's standpoint, it takes more time for the losers bracket to be played with basically no benefit to the players. From a player's standpoint, it is much more difficult to maintain stamina throughout the tournament since you will have to play more people without breaks between.

Overall it seems like more stress and more work for everyone involved, and will not effect the top 3 placings anyways.
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Sorry Joe, everything you say in this post is wrong...

1) It's less work for the TOs. All I have to do is post the losers bracket round robin matchups on the projector and just have my pool monitors take care of the rest. It was only more work for you guys last time because you didn't have the .psd file to go with the bracket, and you probably had no projector. Unlike Tink and BigD, here in MI we don't use old school pen and paper to run our brackets.
2) It does not take more time to play out. 63 sets total are played out under a traditional double-elim bracket, 70 sets total are played out under the bracket round robin hybrid. Big deal. 1 extra setup + the presence of pool monitors easily makes up for those 7 extra sets.
3) It's highly unlikely that someone would have to play out more than one extra set for the entire tournament under this format. In the absolute worst case scenario, you have to play three extra sets to go through losers. But that scenario requires someone who is a threat to win the tournament to lose in 1st round winners, which is highly unlikely.
4) It tremendously affects the top 3 placings. Remember SWEET IV where Tink had to play Kels in one half of Losers Quarters? What if Tink had gotten to play Weon-X in the other half? He would have won (judging by their earlier set in winners) and secured 4th place. A round-robin at that point would have helped tremendously to determine who the 3rd, 4th, and 5th best players really were. This entire format was inspired by the fact that the double-elim format failed to produce accurate 3rd-5th results at SWEET IV.

If you aren't convinced about the hybrid format yet, you will be by the end of GSS.
 
ZTD | TECHnology

ZTD | TECHnology

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Somebody better keep a close watch on Lain for this...lol The T.Os are going hard for this one. We gotta a keep a tight schedule if we're going to fit all of this **** in one day.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Juggleguy said:
Sorry Joe, everything you say in this post is wrong...

1) It's less work for the TOs. All I have to do is post the losers bracket round robin matchups on the projector and just have my pool monitors take care of the rest. It was only more work for you guys last time because you didn't have the .psd file to go with the bracket, and you probably had no projector. Unlike Tink and BigD, here in MI we don't use old school pen and paper to run our brackets.
2) It does not take more time to play out. 63 sets total are played out under a traditional double-elim bracket, 70 sets total are played out under the bracket round robin hybrid. Big deal. 1 extra setup + the presence of pool monitors easily makes up for those 7 extra sets.
3) It's highly unlikely that someone would have to play out more than one extra set for the entire tournament under this format. In the absolute worst case scenario, you have to play three extra sets to go through losers. But that scenario requires someone who is a threat to win the tournament to lose in 1st round winners, which is highly unlikely.
4) It tremendously affects the top 3 placings. Remember SWEET IV where Tink had to play Kels in one half of Losers Quarters? What if Tink had gotten to play Weon-X in the other half? He would have won (judging by their earlier set in winners) and secured 4th place. A round-robin at that point would have helped tremendously to determine who the 3rd, 4th, and 5th best players really were. This entire format was inspired by the fact that the double-elim format failed to produce accurate 3rd-5th results at SWEET IV.

If you aren't convinced about the hybrid format yet, you will be by the end of GSS.
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1) It is still more work for the TO since he has to make the pools and what not. The only way it would be equal work is if you had a TIO version that did it. Sounds like you have a good system, but saying it is less work is a flat out lie.

2) It doesn't take more time, but you have more sets? Thats 7 extra sets in the losers bracket of a 16 man tournament. How many extra sets are there in a 32 man bracket? or a 64 man bracket? It scales.

3) Anyone who would normally lose in the first round would be playing 2 sets more in the round robin. You have 6 matches (one 4 person pool) for every 2 rounds of losers bracket, which in standard brackets is 3 matches per 2 rounds of bracket.

4) The issue at SWEET4 was that kels lost in winners before he was expected to, thus messing up the bracket. If he hadn't, tink would have been able to make it to 4th or 3rd or w/e. Your hybrid would not have solved that problem.
 
Juggleguy

Juggleguy

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Sveet said:
1) It is still more work for the TO since he has to make the pools and what not. The only way it would be equal work is if you had a TIO version that did it. Sounds like you have a good system, but saying it is less work is a flat out lie.

2) It doesn't take more time, but you have more sets? Thats 7 extra sets in the losers bracket of a 16 man tournament. How many extra sets are there in a 32 man bracket? or a 64 man bracket? It scales.

3) Anyone who would normally lose in the first round would be playing 2 sets more in the round robin. You have 6 matches (one 4 person pool) for every 2 rounds of losers bracket, which in standard brackets is 3 matches per 2 rounds of bracket.

4) The issue at SWEET4 was that kels lost in winners before he was expected to, thus messing up the bracket. If he hadn't, tink would have been able to make it to 4th or 3rd or w/e. Your hybrid would not have solved that problem.
Click to expand...
1) No. The hybrid format creates the losers bracket round robins by itself. There is zero work involved in the TO making pools because... well, the TO doesn't have to make pools. Bracket maintenance was considerably less work for me at WGS than at SWEET III, which had more entrants.

2) More sets does not automatically mean more time. One person can single-handedly hold up losers bracket with way more severity under a traditional double-elim bracket than under this hybrid format, which provides more flexibility towards exactly what time sets can be played. The difference between 63 sets and 70 sets is already borderline negligible in the first place.

3) You don't seem to understand that 99.9% of the time, someone who loses in 1st round winners isn't a threat to win the tournament, so he/she is not qualified to complain about or even worry about playing three (worst case scenario) extra sets. Take a look at the hybrid bracket from WGS yourself. How many people ended up having to play more than one extra set? Just one... Taki.

4) No, the issue at SWEET IV was that Tink got screwed out of an extra placing spot because he drew the unlucky half of Losers Quarters. The hybrid would have solved the problem perfectly by producing a Kels victory (moving him to Losers Finals), 4th place for Tink, 5th place for Weon-X, and 6th place for Idea... the way it should have been.

I have no problem discussing the weaknesses of the hybrid format with everyone, but none of the points you've brought up so far are valid criticisms.
 
T

Tink

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i wouldve gotten 3rd atleast :p....kels woudlve ***** drephen, and in losers semis, i woudlve done the same....making my set with kels a 3/5 instead of 2/3, which wouldve been good since i suicided the last game :/. all johns aside, kels just scrubs it up and it hurts the mw itself :p.....this tourny it will not happen!!
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Juggleguy said:
1) No. The hybrid format creates the losers bracket round robins by itself. There is zero work involved in the TO making pools because... well, the TO doesn't have to make pools. Bracket maintenance was considerably less work for me at WGS than at SWEET III, which had more entrants.

2) More sets does not automatically mean more time. One person can single-handedly hold up losers bracket with way more severity under a traditional double-elim bracket than under this hybrid format, which provides more flexibility towards exactly what time sets can be played. The difference between 63 sets and 70 sets is already borderline negligible in the first place.

3) You don't seem to understand that 99.9% of the time, someone who loses in 1st round winners isn't a threat to win the tournament, so he/she is not qualified to complain about or even worry about playing three (worst case scenario) extra sets. Take a look at the hybrid bracket from WGS yourself. How many people ended up having to play more than one extra set? Just one... Taki.

4) No, the issue at SWEET IV was that Tink got screwed out of an extra placing spot because he drew the unlucky half of Losers Quarters. The hybrid would have solved the problem perfectly by producing a Kels victory (moving him to Losers Finals), 4th place for Tink, 5th place for Weon-X, and 6th place for Idea... the way it should have been.

I have no problem discussing the weaknesses of the hybrid format with everyone, but none of the points you've brought up so far are valid criticisms.
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Hmm i see i overlooked some of the intricacies of the format. I know you will run it the best possible way, but these seemingly marginal additions can really bog down a large tournament.

I really like the out of the box thinking, and im not asking you to change the setup for this tourney, i'm just expressing my concerns and stating my opinion.
 
crismas

crismas

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I can't wait to for this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D

Only four more weeks :3
 
SCOTU

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As for the extra sets generated by the hybrid system, I would like to point out that, given adequate TVs, it should take no extra time. This is because many of the people in the Round Robin at a given point in the bracket are there before everyone else is. You don't need to start once everyone's in that pool, you can start it when two of them are. You can pipeline it a fair deal to make it take ~ the same time as a normal double elim.
 
Fortress | Sveet

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i want this to come but i dont want the 19th to be so soon. This tourney is also the last day for me to finish my math class xD


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SCOTU said:
As for the extra sets generated by the hybrid system, I would like to point out that, given adequate TVs, it should take no extra time. This is because many of the people in the Round Robin at a given point in the bracket are there before everyone else is. You don't need to start once everyone's in that pool, you can start it when two of them are. You can pipeline it a fair deal to make it take ~ the same time as a normal double elim.
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I cant remember the last time i went to a tournament/ran a tournament and we had more setups than we needed. Usually the tournament is constrained by the number of setups.
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

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Sveet said:
I cant remember the last time i went to a tournament/ran a tournament and we had more setups than we needed. Usually the tournament is constrained by the number of setups.
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The first round and first round winners/losers are typically constrained by setups, but after those, there are never more than 8 simultaneous matches (32 man bracket), and except for the 2nd round losers RR, this guarantees there are enough setups to accommodate the other RRs fully. Furthermore, the RRs in 2nd round losers only need the same number of setups as a normal Double elim there, they don't need more.
 
Roller

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Hilt said:
Okay, really considering this now. Gonna talk to a couple people and see how possible it'll be.
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INKY in the house!

Damn, it's possible we could have Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Canada, AND east coast at this.

WHOBO OF THE NORTH, LET'S GOOOO!!!!!
 
DeLux

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Roller said:
INKY in the house!

Damn, it's possible we could have Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Canada, AND east coast at this.

WHOBO OF THE NORTH, LET'S GOOOO!!!!!
Click to expand...
No Kansas?

There's no place like home
 
DtJ Jungle

DtJ Jungle

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squid hasnt posted a derp picture and a pasta sauce in a while

hilt you better come >:[
 
Roller

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If Lux is coming (which he told me at Pound he would be) then there are decent odds Fino could come, since they are really close to eachother and play all the time. Wouldn't be hard to imagine them carpooling here. The real question is, IS STEALTH RAPTOR COMING?
 
DeLux

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Probably not. I'm under the impression that he's going to the DR to play baseball with the Dominicans. for his spring break.

If I came, I would fly. I'm tired of driving across the country for this nonsense. I also have a commitment the day before in Lawrence so driving would be a bit rough.

I'll make a decision in the next couple weeks if I'm coming or not. At this point, I want to. I just dont' know if I want to THAT much
 
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