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[∫unk]

VS ZEX
vs Marth (match 1): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0ftTmA3-K4
vs MK (match 3): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ShHVwnM1So#t=25s

i played really bad vs mk oh well

match 2 was a mk ditto i got *****

 

[o-Serin-o]

Match 1 (slow loading so it'll be a long time before I finish)

0:37-0:38 - You were better off Bthrow since CG'ing Marth will only get you 3 grabs at the most. Mainly top it off with a Bthrow until over 100%

0:50 - Charge that Dsmash

0:59-1:00 - Don't ever roll > utilt against anyone better.

1:32 - Turn around a spit towards offstage

2:25 - Bthrow

3:08-3:09 - Dsmash. Dtilt comes out quicker, but dsmash has a higher chance of killing.



Beefy you can do match 3

Overall: 4/5 Good ****. Work on better ways to kill and you' ll be fine.

 

[∫unk]

i disagree with everything you said but thanks anyways

1) never let marth back on stage for no reason its free hits
2) d-smash/u-smash when they land minor detail doesn't matter. i think it's better to grab again and get them to the ledge but i reacted late so i u-smashed
3) roll u-tilt works when you're in advantage or you have momentum. the risk vs reward was good that's why i did it.
4) turning around and spitting doesn't work vs someone that mashes fast.
5) d-tilt because it gets them off stage

i dont think you understand a key to this matchup which is marth is horrible on the ledge/recovering as you can see.

i do agree that im horrible at killing people but i think that's partly the character. if im mk and im fighting ddd they pretty much have to get lucky to kill me with anything but b-air in tournament.

 

[TlocCPU]

Match 1 (slow loading so it'll be a long time before I finish)

0:37-0:38 - You were better off Bthrow since CG'ing Marth will only get you 3 grabs at the most. Mainly top it off with a Bthrow until over 100%

0:50 - Charge that Dsmash

0:59-1:00 - Don't ever roll > utilt against anyone better.

1:32 - Turn around a spit towards offstage

2:25 - Bthrow

3:08-3:09 - Dsmash. Dtilt comes out quicker, but dsmash has a higher chance of killing.



Beefy you can do match 3

Overall: 4/5 Good ****. Work on better ways to kill and you' ll be fine.

0:37-0:38 Serin is 100% wrong. There is nothing right about that at all. One of our biggest strengths against marth is ****** his recovery and edgeguarding him. ALWAYS throw offstage.
0:50 Uhh no, you just grab again. If marth is at killing % you can charge either smash, doesn't matter.
0:59-1:00 Last time I played mikehaze in tournament, my win on round 2 was acquired by rolling past his fair and uptilting immediately. Mike is better than Zex right?
1:32 - Agree with Serin, just remember to do it next time
2:25 Serin means Fthrow
3:08-3:09 Zex probably could have shielded the downsmash, if he did, junk would have gotten side Bd and been offstage. Offstage vs marth=bad. I disagree. Always go for the faster option.
"Work on better ways to kill and you'll be fine."
Bad statement. Matchups like marth and MK are all about PATIENCE. Don't go for stupid ****. Trying to get the kill at all costs is what leads to marth racking up damage on you fast. I don't care if you have to get marth to 250 before you kill him, if it means you take minimal damage and don't risk getting killed yourself, it's worth it. Being reckless will only get you *****, especially against a top level marth player.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Oh sorry, I forgot that you guys have mHaze. Yea you right

 

[Countcocofang]

Good **** Junk, make him switch to MK every time

 

[haloman800]

Best counterpick for fighting MK? Then the second best in case he bans it.

Also, what should you ban against MK? And what is the best/worst neutral to fight him on? (FD best, YI worst?)

Edit: Also, did Seibrik ever post his video on inhale-release utilt?


On a side note, when I tried going under BF with DDD, I made it to the other side ^_^. So he can go under SV and BF.


Sorry for so many questions >.<

 

[AtotheZ]

I would say FD is D3's worst matchup vs metaknight, but that's just me.

Here is some footage though of inhale release although he made no official vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FpCYJavjLA

 

[dawall250]

really? i find fd to be the best cp against mks because they can abuse platforms soooo well. i actually have no idea as to what the second best cp would be... smashville? and ban rc? i don't play mks often so i'm not totally sure.

 

[Zip.]

lol thats why I drop by the ddd boards alot, you guys are too much fun. XD

<3 you and your loli avy
no homo xD

 

[Commander_Beef]

Best counterpick for fighting MK? Then the second best in case he bans it.

Also, what should you ban against MK? And what is the best/worst neutral to fight him on? (FD best, YI worst?)

Edit: Also, did Seibrik ever post his video on inhale-release utilt?


On a side note, when I tried going under BF with DDD, I made it to the other side ^_^. So he can go under SV and BF.


Sorry for so many questions >.<

The best counterpick for fighting Meta Knight is Rainbow Cruise. You must be playing your smartest because that stage makes the matchup Even. There are no flaws on the stage for King Dedede and we can kill his *** very early here. The only part of the stage where Meta Knight actualy has the advantage is when you're on the ship. So I recommend going immediately for the ledge behind the bunker and plank a little bit. Or just shield camp on top of the bunker and try back throws, and don't spotdodge, because he can't grab you if he's over on the other side of the ship.
Final Destination is the best neutral to fight him at because the more space/room we have against Meta Knight, the better. That's why Rainbow Cruise is a fine counterpick too. Just these two stages, all other stages you'll lose more times than you win on them. Yoshi's Island isn't the worst neutral for this because we recover better here than any other neutral, with the slopes at hand. Battlefield is the worst because of the platforms. He can edgeguard you more consistently and that's where he gets the most damage off of our recovery. Seibrik never released a tutorial on his technique, but instead he gave about 4 videos of examples of it in action... I think at the bottom of the first post in his thread.
And I already answered that question about going under those two stages. Look at posts more and you'll get your answers faster. -_-

 

[AtotheZ]

FD is soooo bad for me I don't even know why. I just feel we have so much less options here and it's harder to avoid him here...

 

[Commander_Beef]

FD is soooo bad for me I don't even know why. I just feel we have so much less options here and it's harder to avoid him here...

Think about this.
You think you have more options on smaller stages like Smashville?
What more options do you have on Smashville?

 

[AtotheZ]

Yes... I like to utilize platforms. Metaknight can basically punish you every time you land and I like to have a platform there just for some extra security. I think Dedede does better on places with platforms vs metaknight than people take him for. Platforms grants more options on recovery and in general IMO.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Well if it's just your opinion, nevermind.

 

[haloman800]

Thank you Beef, I'll remember all of that.

Also, I was just saying that he can go under BF too, when I asked the question you said he could only go under SV, and I said I'd check out BF but never posted.

Also, is PS1 any good against MK? Like in stage striking, assuming he bans FD, should I ban BF and PS1 or SV?

And just out of curiosity, how did you do at that active gamers tournament? From the video's I saw you never lost.

 

[TlocCPU]

For anyone who is about to question Beef saying that RC is the best since it SOUNDS ridiculous (Chrashic), there is more to it.
Think back to one of the main reasons MK beats us so bad, the NADO. Now think about how often MK can safely use the nado on rainbow cruise
Also, MK destroys characters there easily because of his ability to approach in the air from below so well. Luckily for us we have a long range dair to keep us in it, so he can't just spam uair and shuttle loop the whole time. I really like RC against MK

 

[CRASHiC]

LAMO you west coasters and your ****in Nado. ooooooooh west coast DDDs.

 

[o-Serin-o]

They only have 2 WC D3s and they think they own the place >_>

EDIT: 3 WC D3s

 

[CRASHiC]

What? No, they have 4 west coast D3s.
We have Beef who does an incredible job helping out the forum
There is CPU who wrote up a good Marth and Olimar write up
Junk who gives some advice from time to time. He doens't show up much
Then there is the other one, (AC?) who secondaries D3 and doesn't show up very much.
Its odd though seeing information from the separate coast clash sometimes, like when SuSa asked if we knew that D3 could down tilt Snake at the edge. Things that we consider common knowledge and thigns that they consider common knowledge don't always add up. Its really odd to see the separation of the coast like this. I guess we can blame All Is Brawl for that in some indirect way.

 

[o-Serin-o]

How can we blame AiB? o.o

 

[CRASHiC]

Doesn't west coast use AIB?

 

[Zip.]

pretty much yeah.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

What are some options against snake when you dthrow him off the stage?

 

[Commander_Beef]

Thank you Beef, I'll remember all of that.

Also, I was just saying that he can go under BF too, when I asked the question you said he could only go under SV, and I said I'd check out BF but never posted.

You're all welcome, it's my literal pleasure to answer your questions and help your King Dededes.
And I actually tested this... King Dedede can successfully go under both Smashville and Battlefield. It was a failure on the other stages.

I'm finally updating the original post with everything.

Your welcome Haloman. And I'm sorry but I win this because I guess you missed that post a while back.

Also, is PS1 any good against MK? Like in stage striking, assuming he bans FD, should I ban BF and PS1 or SV?

Oh yes! That's the third and final stage that we can do well against Meta Knight because of all the room. Keep in mind that it's still a 60:40 matchup for him, so don't keep your hopes up. If he bans Final Destination, counterpick Rainbow Cruise. Do friendlies with a Meta Knight on there and do more avoiding than attacking, except while on the ship.

And just out of curiosity, how did you do at that active gamers tournament? From the video's I saw you never lost.

I did very well in them all, but not good enough. There's a description under some videos that I lost against a person, but they weren't recorded because of coincidental reasons. There are many good players around here and a King Dedede can't handle all of them especially if they're ranked Meta Knights and Falcos. For as long as I can remember, those of the only two characters that I lose to, and yes I have a few videos of me losing to a Falco there. Of course that's up to me to try to get a lot better with those two bad matchups.

For anyone who is about to question Beef saying that RC is the best since it SOUNDS ridiculous (Chrashic), there is more to it.
Think back to one of the main reasons MK beats us so bad, the NADO. Now think about how often MK can safely use the nado on rainbow cruise
Also, MK destroys characters there easily because of his ability to approach in the air from below so well. Luckily for us we have a long range dair to keep us in it, so he can't just spam uair and shuttle loop the whole time. I really like RC against MK

Thanks for the backup CPU...but yeah one coast knows things that the other doesn't, and vice-versa. And to tell you the truth, I never really lost because of his tornado by a rapestatus. It was just his gimping abilities on me and shuttle loop that really was aggravating and hard to get passed. I'm getting better at it but not good enough yet, but yeah tornado isn't why I was losing so bad. People are different...so what. I prefer the moving stage because we can avoid a lot more from him, and when the ship crashes, we can do down below and our up-air does the same job is down air here. You were correct about our down air protecting us a lot too.
Just keep it on the nice-side when stating your facts ok?

What? No, they have 4 west coast D3s.
We have Beef who does an incredible job helping out the forum
There is CPU who wrote up a good Marth and Olimar write up
Junk who gives some advice from time to time. He doens't show up much
Then there is the other one, (AC?) who secondaries D3 and doesn't show up very much.
Its odd though seeing information from the separate coast clash sometimes, like when SuSa asked if we knew that D3 could down tilt Snake at the edge. Things that we consider common knowledge and thigns that they consider common knowledge don't always add up. Its really odd to see the separation of the coast like this. I guess we can blame All Is Brawl for that in some indirect way.

AC is not considered a King Dedede by us. He uses Meta Knight and Snake more combined...and he isn't power-ranked as King Dedede, he's ranked as Meta Knight. Serin was right that there's three. I wish Junk could go to more tournaments though, at least here in southern California.
And what's wrong with using All Is Brawl? Serin uses it too and only God knows where he lives.

What are some options against snake when you dthrow him off the stage?

After a chaingrab and you down throw him off the stage, it's mainly about mindgames, timing, and reactions.
Some things HE can do by recovering from the down throw:
1.) Jump and airdodge back on to stage. [Or jumping and forward air <----do up tilt to that]
2.) Jump and do the usual upB ascending.
3.) Jump on the ledge.

Now the third option is his safest, but what we have against him here, is to stage spike him with back air before he is close to the ledge. Hardest to time though.
If you forsee him jumping to an airdodge, do the following:

• 
  If at 130% or higher : Up tilt or down smash for the kill

• If at lower than 130% : do a pivot grab

And finally, after he jumps, and you see that little cypher pop up, prepare to jump and forward air him.

It's all about reacting to what he does, in summarized form. The reactions take practice. Just know that you're safe from harm when you're edgeguarding him.

 

[CRASHiC]

Don't forget too down tilt after a chain grab at the end, its guaranteed so make sure you do it every time. If you forward tilt their jump they are going to have to use either down b or up b. Down b you can see coming, footstool it and they will die. Up B is also obvious, and you can grab them out of it, and if you don't pummel and just let them release they don't get their up b back.

Oh, and Beef, there is nothing wrong with All Is Brawl, its just if I had to pin point the separation of information from West Coast to East Coast, I'd say it would be caused by All Is Brawl.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Oh okay, gotcha.
And we can never grab them out of their upB after down throwing because they always jump the opposite way, then upB. Can't grab him there.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

idk about dtilt, it tacks on extra damage of course, but it hits them up, plus it doesnt kill that well i dont think and they can just recover down with cypher and grenade/nikita/c4 reversals, I think going for the gimp would be a better idea.

Also Beef, what if the Snake jump and nair? would you have time to react by shielding and then grab him again?

Do you really have time to fair his cypher if he uses the jump to get the boost? I feel like Snake might fly too high up too quickly, maybe a rar bair would be a better option? plus it sends him flying at a lower trajectory so its easier to WOP him.

Edit: I know ftilt can **** snake's jump, but can it hit him out of the cypher? I know Snake has heavy armor on his cypher but I cant remember the damage needed to knock him out of it.

 

[Commander_Beef]

idk about dtilt, it tacks on extra damage of course, but it hits them up, plus it doesnt kill that well i dont think and they can just recover down with cypher and grenade/nikita/c4 reversals, I think going for the gimp would be a better idea.

Also Beef, what if the Snake jump and nair? would you have time to react by shielding and then grab him again?

Do you really have time to fair his cypher if he uses the jump to get the boost? I feel like Snake might fly too high up too quickly, maybe a rar bair would be a better option? plus it sends him flying at a lower trajectory so its easier to WOP him.

Edit: I know ftilt can **** snake's jump, but can it hit him out of the cypher? I know Snake has heavy armor on his cypher but I cant remember the damage needed to knock him out of it.

If he does any aerial while coming back on stage, our up tilt will break through them everytime. You can shield and grab again, but depending on if he gets the landing lag or not, you can be facing him or not facing him to successfully grab.
And yes of course if you see him cypher, you can jump and forward air. You must react to it as best as possible, I've done it numbers of times.
And you can back air him too, depending on his percent, you can land more aerials on him.

When he's on his cypher, he will gain super armor through any damage that's 7% or lower. 8% and higher will knock him off of cypher.
Don't forward tilt his cypher...you have many better options.

This should all really be in the Snake matchup thread... -_- No question about King Dedede at all

 

[TlocCPU]

Sigh tornado isn't the problem with the matchup. Everybody is so busy with coast to coast insults that they weren't thinking about what I was saying. When you fight a metaknight, what does he spend all of his time doing? Spacing nados and tilts and doing anything to get you offstage. I was merely stating that his options become much more limited because of the moving stage. But I mean we can insult coast to coast if you want, since that's insanely productive and shows how skillful someone is.

Edit: Beef I would still like to see a snake writeup

 

[AtotheZ]

I've seen metaknights try a lot of things that pretty much can work on dedede. One of the main ones I have trouble with especially on FD is the grab happy ones. metaknight can follow up with some dangerous stuff if he pays attention to how you DI his dthrow. Another thing of course is dair camping.

Metaknights also tend to fight close range so its harder to uptilt his nado on reaction.

 

[T3h Albino]

Your standing grab beats out a lot of things metaknight can approach you with.

A thing I like to do against impatient MK's is to just stand and not to move.

If he runs and tries to grab or dash attack you can just standing grab and beat him.

If he nado's you can just shield and punish.

If he starts inching toward you, you can ftilt or roll behind him and grab.

Standing keeps all of your options, and enables you to beat out a lot of things mk could be doing to you if you were moving.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Lol no more. It was done a while ago, post it in the matchup thread export wherever it is.

 

[T3h Albino]

Thorry beef, I just wanted to post my thoughts on the subject .-.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=252737


First post updated! enjoy

 

[o-Serin-o]

Your standing grab beats out a lot of things metaknight can approach you with.

A thing I like to do against impatient MK's is to just stand and not to move.

If he runs and tries to grab or dash attack you can just standing grab and beat him.

If he nado's you can just shield and punish.

If he starts inching toward you, you can ftilt or roll behind him and grab.

Standing keeps all of your options, and enables you to beat out a lot of things mk could be doing to you if you were moving.

Lol

Gl with top MKs then.

Lol, dair beats standing grab

He'll move back before you have time to grab him unless the MK sucks

When I tried that vs Seibrik, that only got me eating things he could pull out of his ***.

 

[∫unk]

im ranked in norcal and i live in norcal right now how am i not going to enough tournies lol

socal is 8 hours away im not making that trip very often unless it's for a **** tournament

last time i went to socal i split 3rd in singles and got 2nd in teams... granted it was only ~25 ppl and only 1 socal powerranked showed up (the top 4 was norcal ranked, socal ranked, norcal ranked, norcal ranked) but i definitely lost way more money

basically its not worth it unless its a big tournament, until i go back to college in cencal i won't be going to socal tournaments

 

[Commander_Beef]

im ranked in norcal and i live in norcal right now how am i not going to enough tournies lol

socal is 8 hours away im not making that trip very often unless it's for a **** tournament

last time i went to socal i split 3rd in singles and got 2nd in teams... granted it was only ~25 ppl and only 1 socal powerranked showed up (the top 4 was norcal ranked, socal ranked, norcal ranked, norcal ranked) but i definitely lost way more money

basically its not worth it unless its a big tournament, until i go back to college in cencal i won't be going to socal tournaments

Yeah you're right, only for a big tournament.
But I think people are only ranked there because it's just there. Last time I checked, there wasn't a list anymore because they weren't that active in tournament play.

 

[∫unk]

huh? there's tournaments like every week lol

rankings list:
http://allisbrawl.com/group.aspx?id=9676

the problem is norcal is a very big region (2 hours to get to a "local") so you don't have all the players showing up to 1 tournament very often (like usually once or twice per ranking period)

but just look at the tournament calendar there's almost always a norcal tournament happening

what you just described is CENCAL lol

 

[T3h Albino]

Lol

Gl with top MKs then.

Lol, dair beats standing grab

He'll move back before you have time to grab him unless the MK sucks

When I tried that vs Seibrik, that only got me eating things he could pull out of his ***.

Well if he dairs, just reset or back air.
Patience is the key to the matchup, If you're not willing to do so then have fun losing?

huh? there's tournaments like every week lol

rankings list:
http://allisbrawl.com/group.aspx?id=9676

the problem is norcal is a very big region (2 hours to get to a "local") so you don't have all the players showing up to 1 tournament very often (like usually once or twice per ranking period)

but just look at the tournament calendar there's almost always a norcal tournament happening

what you just described is CENCAL lol

Good **** on being ranked junk, but wtf METAKNIGHT? ;__;