Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Z'zgashi]

Also, one thing, Trist doesnt have to rush IE, in fact, in the LCS she rarely does, she has other options like Shiv to rush which allows her to accentuate on her Explosive Shot to just push waves really fast and farm better plus get free turret damage. She now has more viable options, fantastic build paths, and she is almost perfectly built for the amazing late game ADCs have atm.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The fact that the patch notes called Lucian as having the niche of "mobile ranged carry" almost made me wretch. Like... where the **** is the consistency at all? I'm pretty sure Ezreal was legitimately meant to be the mobile ranged carry. Oh well.

revisiting this, in Statikk's faq they made it clear that he SHOULDN'T be the most mobile adc due to his crazy effective range. His vison is mobile, but being the most mobile would be overkill.

 

[Dre89]

How bad is it to not rush your jungle item on a jungler? Like say you get a spirit stone/quill coat and boots early, then cmplete another item first before you complete your jungle item.

Main reason is that I want to try golem on Wu rather than lizard. Lizard has underwhelming combat stats (30 AD plus 10 CDR). but at the same time I feel like I'd need to get some early damage, like a tiamat or a brutaliser.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Lizard is better on wukong jungle not just because of damage but because of CDR (and gold I guess). When Panth Wukong and Kha'zix were the top 3 for a few months they went only that item for the CDR to get their ults up faster and gank more often. Usually 20 or 25% cdr from that and brut (if they don't need the 5% in offense like wukong), then just go tank after that cause those two items should be enough early game damage to get enough kills.

Anyways always rush your elder lizard so you can have the cdr and the free gold from getting camps (wait till it's 30 or 40 for a big camp, just gank until then)

 

[teluoborg]

Well the jungle item gives you income and clear speed on top of other stats. Also the lizard true damage is still strong enough to be gold efficient. I don't think you'll get better combat stats for 1300 gold.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I just noticed what he said is 10 cdr and 30 ad isn't good.
why

 

[Shaya]

Bloodthirsters Essence Reaver provides moar damage/scaling with Wukong's abilities and auto attacks, life steals and mana regen in every situation rather than just on jungle creeps and comes with 10% cdr too! Mana restoration is providing me with like 1 gp/10 for every second I'm auto attacking, which covers me for all the shortfall in gold a noncompleted jungle item would have, obviously!

 

[Dre89]

I just noticed what he said is 10 cdr and 30 ad isn't good.
why

Well for comparison, black cleaver gives 50 AD, 10 armour pen, 200 heath, armour shred passive and 10% CDR. Lizard's combat stats are mediocre, you buy it for the sustain and the gold gen. The true damage isn't that great either because it doesn't stack. You'd get more damage out of pretty much any other AD caster item.

The problem for me is that Wu realistically only has room for 2-3 damage items, and by building lizard you're wasting one of those slots an item that gives subpar combat stats. Golem gives you the CDR, jungle sustain and goldgen that lizard gives you without having to waste a damage item slot. That was you can get 2 optimal items, such as hydra/cleaver or cleaver/whisper.

Of course golem takes up one of our tank slots, but I feel like it's better to get optimal damage items than it is to get optimal tank items, and with the rework golem is a better tank item than lizard is an ad caster item. The only problem is that a golem rush isn't really a power spike on Wu, so I feel like I'd have to get something like a brutaliser or tiamat after spirit stone.

 

[Shaya]

But what is the build path towards Black Cleaver?

Games aren't about 6 item builds. Just about everyone's going to be selling their lizard late game... It's the potency of it early game that means everything.

 

[Sinister Slush]

BC also costs 3k where Elder is 2k and can continue giving you free gold true damage and faster clears. It's fine to sell it later on in the game past 40 minutes maybe, but Elder lizard > BC if you get 4+ kills before 10 minutes.

BC/LW with Elder is fine later in the game past 30 minutes, no need to go golem and do less damage since wukong is naturally tanky in teamfights anyways cause of his passive and if you're going 9/21.

 

[teluoborg]

Dre you're forgetting a few things :
-your finished jungle item is your main gold generator, delaying also delays the rest of your build.
-Golem builds out of quill now, not spirit stone.
-I'm not a pro Wu, but from what I've seen you rely on your clone tanking damage which defeats the idea of building quill.
-Even when you're 6 items with let's say golem randuin banshee BC and LW, the passive on golem only gives you like 260 health, making it an item that gives 460 health, 20 armor and 10% cdr. That's pretty bad for a late game item if you ask me.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I thought I decayed tomorrow
But it happened today.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....
I also stomped a match and got 24 points putting me 99 in D4.
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuF

Why dammit thought 23rd not 22nd since my last ranked was the 23rd last month.

 

[Shaya]

its 28 days/4 weeks.

 

[Dre89]

Dre you're forgetting a few things :
-your finished jungle item is your main gold generator, delaying also delays the rest of your build.
-Golem builds out of quill now, not spirit stone.
-I'm not a pro Wu, but from what I've seen you rely on your clone tanking damage which defeats the idea of building quill.
-Even when you're 6 items with let's say golem randuin banshee BC and LW, the passive on golem only gives you like 260 health, making it an item that gives 460 health, 20 armor and 10% cdr. That's pretty bad for a late game item if you ask me.

The clone tanks damage for 1.5 seconds and Wu is squishy so you still take a lot of damage in the jungle anyway. I just wanted to justify getting a hydra but it's hard to on jungle Wu when you need at least 2 tank items and cleaver is a given. I know I'd have to get Lizard in reality first, but I can always dream.

You know what I think would be mad troll but actually good- lich bane Zilean. The reasoning is that max rank Q does 300 damage with a 90% AP ratio. This is balanced around the fact that Q is his only damaging spell. But by getting a lich bane, you effectively have another low CD spell. Imagine how much damage Q auto W auto Q auto would do lol.

 

[teluoborg]

I was gonna say that with the sheen proc 2s cooldown you'd require to stay in close range for a long time but suddenly sheen procs buffs out of ****ing nowhere, so idk. I know Zilean's AA is crap, but I like the idea of having the possibility of stoning people to death like the terrorist he is.

those sheen buffs tho, it's like Riot wants Corki to appear again during worlds.

 

[Shaya]

Honestly I've thought it should've done that for ages now. 2 seconds is way too long of a time frame for a lot of champions to use Sheen effectively (i.e. characters who have to use their abilities quickly but have longer cooldowns: Shaco/Lee Sin/Kayle/etcetc). Most champions are looking at having a much better combo flow with sheen when they consider their auto attack speed (.7-.9 is a much larger fraction of 1.5 than 2).

For someone like AP Ezreal, who needed Lich Bane while also wants to build CDR is coerced away from capping it as it puts his Q at a 1.4 second cool down, giving you wasted banked up sheen procs from W/Es that don't get pulled out through Qs. Obviously Ezreal in general would be looking a lot better going CDR now with any sheen item.

I guess they're probably going to need to tone back the sheen proc damage, but I think 1.5 seconds is perfectly fine with the current Lich Bane alignment.

 

[Player-3]

sheen bufs????????

 

[Shaya]

Actually I'll put down $5 that Sheen/Triforce will get nerfed to .75/1.5 in a short space of time if that change goes through.
Maybe they should just make Lich Bane 1.5 seconds and leave the rest alone!

 

[Sinister Slush]

The only buff is taking off .5 seconds from passive. Not that big of a buff, and corki been seeing a bunch of play already anyways. Creaton sneaky etc. are bringing him out a lot and doing incredibly well.

 

[teluoborg]

Yea but he's far from the pick/ban status he had during s3 worlds, thanks to triforce and personal nerfs. 0.5s is big when it's 25% of your cooldown and when it means you can get 3 sheen procs in 3s instead of 4s.

I can't see the whole picture yet but it's definetely a buff to champs who can proc it multiple times during a combo. One more reason to build gauntlet on Cho I guess.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Plus Skarner.
Oooooh boy, now that's a champion buff with sheen being 1.5 sec.

 

[Espy Rose]

Poppy's Q is happy.

 

[Dre89]

Is .5 seconds really the difference between the item being viable on certain champs or not.

 

[Z'zgashi]

For champs with low cd spells (Skarner like everyon is saying is the perfect example), yes. Basically, you can get 4 procs in the time it took our to get 3 before, so basically an extra 100% of AD worth of damage every 6 seconds. Definitely a nice little buff.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Is .5 seconds really the difference between the item being viable on certain champs or not.

Yes.


Think about it for 2 seconds, a lot of champs will be spamming abilities on a much shorter CD especially with CDR, this means either the CDR or the sheen proc is wasted. For example, fizz wants to get his combo off quickly but it means he can't optimize sheen procs, Skarner's crystal slash, hecarim with full rampage stacks, irelia when minion clearing, and this is only obvious examples.

 

[Player-3]

saw somewhere the sheen change isnt actually a change, its always been 1.5 just updating the tooltip

get **** on nerds you wasted like the past 15 posts

 

[Shaya]

Hmm, sure doesn't seem so if I can shoot two Qs with Ezreal at 35%+ CDR and not have both proc sheen.
Unless that was secretly changed recently. But even then I've been playing AP Ezreal a few times just in the past 3 days and definitely miss sheen procs on Q by attempting to shoot constantly.

 

[adumbrodeus]

saw somewhere the sheen change isnt actually a change, its always been 1.5 just updating the tooltip

get **** on nerds you wasted like the past 15 posts

in other words sheen has been a lot more useful then i knew and didn't realize it? daaaaaamn

 

[john!]

Hmm, sure doesn't seem so if I can shoot two Qs with Ezreal at 35%+ CDR and not have both proc sheen.
Unless that was secretly changed recently. But even then I've been playing AP Ezreal a few times just in the past 3 days and definitely miss sheen procs on Q by attempting to shoot constantly.

because the ability CD starts when you fire the Q and the sheen CD starts when the Q hits

 

[Shaya]

I considered that. I suppose I'll just be paying closer attention to see. It being 1.5 seconds "always" and called 2 is probably due to standard auto attack times I guess?

 

[Player-3]

the thing i saw said because they didnt like decimals in their tooltips (casual ****s)

 

[Dre89]

Cooldowns normally display decimal points though, so that seems odd.

 

[Player-3]

rito games makes very consistent and logical decisions

 

[Espy Rose]

P3 stop telling it like it is. Rito doesn't like that.

 

[Dre89]

I just bought Darius, and apparently the conventional wisdom is to buy 1-2 armour pen items depending on how you're doing then go tank (I'm guessing last whisper or cleaver). But looking at his kit, armour pen doesn't really strike me as efficient. He actually has pretty good AD ratios, and has innate apen on his E. Not only does he have innate apen, but the apen from items lowers the pen from his E because flat pen and LW pen are calculated before his E's pen.

Now obviously he'll still penetrate more armour if he buys apen than if he didn't, but I'm just wondering if that's efficient because it comes at the sacrifice of AD. I just wonder if buying 1-2 high AD items like hydra or BT would be more efficient. That way you get more use out of both his high AD ratios and his innate apen.Then there's also the fact that his ult scales off AD and not apen. Just a thought.

"Flame shield activated"

 

[jaswa]

Wukong has innate apen and you build apen items on him, why not AD?

 

[Dre89]

Because Wukong's apen is not technically pen. It's armour shred, which means it's calculated before flatpen. Also I often get high AD items on like hydra as to no waste his good ratios.

Darius's pen is %pen, and all %pen apart from LW is calculated after flat pen. So when u build apen on Darius, you're reducing the amount of shred he gets from his E. Ofc it still amounts to a net gain in terms of armour shredded. However it strikes me as inefficient to build a stat that infringes on one of his abilities and doesn't aid his ult when you could build AD to compliment his good ratios and his ult without cockblocking any of his abilities.

 

[Asdioh]

http://www.lolking.net/champions/darius none of his top items are armor pen
(also frozen mallet's on there so take it with a grain of salt)
I'd just get Hydra and maybe Hexdrinker if against significant AP, then go tank.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I can see FM kinda sorta working on darius only because health and passive to keep the targets sticking onto him. But with only two decent stats for quite a bit of gold, I'd rather spend more gold on something like TF for more damage and chase instead of slow and health since FM certainly isn't bought for its massive AD.

Also brut for armor pen into Ghostblade. I almost never see BC anymore for good reason.

 

[Dre89]

BC has always seemed like an overrated item to me. I feel like I'm forced to get in on Wukong because people will flame me if I don't (and I always want max CDR on casters). I know brutaliser rush is supposed to be amazing on AD casters but in my experience tiamat is a much bigger power spike. It's 600 more gold but it has a decent build path (eg. pick axe on first back for laners).