Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[ToferTheHuman]

Leona Rammus is still the best bot lane duo ever.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I use Support Leona. Its fantastic.

 

[Espy Rose]

Leona Rammus.
No one ****ing knows.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I think there's MUCH better ways to reduce snowballing than to create comeback mechanics that lessen the skill gap between players. MOBAs don't have to be very snowbally- only slightly.

As a small example, Riot could buff stall comps, which counter snowball comps.



I think you'd get a more accurate representation of who the better, more consistent player is by eliminating as many slippery slopes as you can in a game and nudging them to go longer through balancing, than nudging it through comeback mechanics. Even if I thought there wouldn't be that much of a difference between the two, I'd pick the first over the latter simply because I think the mechanics are rewarding failure, and that's anti-competitive.

That said, obviously, the lesser the skill gap in a game, the closer the matches are going to be- more variance. League has the potential to have an even wider skill gap than it does now if they'd remove bounties (which by nature would make the game more snowbally, but they can FIX that. Comeback mechanics are a crutch for designers that can't fix snowballing in better ways), and with that the better players would win more often.

Hope this addressed all of your post. I dislike segmenting everything because I want to respond to the arguments, not the points.

edit: also, we should bring this to messages/LoL chat past this, I think. Or we can just agree to disagree.


ORLY?!

I'll gladly discuss this in league chat or skype or something some time, just lemme know.



I understand your objection, it APPEARS to be rewarding failure, and that does feel anti-competitive. That's why the best comeback mechanics are the ones which aren't really noticeable AS comeback mechanics. Again, the third strike's parry system which is slightly more advantageous to the player whose behind due to chip damage hurting them more. This counter-balances the ability of the player with more life to win simply via blockstrings that chip, which makes earlier mistakes slightly more valuable then later ones. (I can gush all day about how awesome the parry system is all day for a variety of reasons, it's only negative is that it increased the technical floor for competitive level play)


That said I really think that it's only "rewarding failure" if it devalues early mistakes or outright reverses them. If your opponent still requires more/worse mistakes from you in order to win that is directly proportional to the number/degree of the mistakes they made, it's not rewarding failure, it's simply balancing the slippery slope.


Note: Mistakes include simply getting read here, not just objectively stupid decisions.

Also, this really doesn't cover games with such powerful comeback mechanics where the metagame has developed into balancing being "behind" with the power of the comeback mechanic ex. puzzle quest.

Leona Rammus.
No one ****ing knows.

AD sona and leona/naut/blitz. Probably more leona then the others.

 

[john!]

i'm shocked nobody has mentioned the best bot lane combo in the game

hint: it starts with "L" and ends with "ux + Leona"

once lux gets sheen it's all over

 

[Espy Rose]

You two clearly have never experienced it.
That's sad.

 

[Shaya]

Try pantheon + fiddlesticks.

Diving at level six thre two has never been so easy.

 

[DMG]

Diving Level 1: lesson by Sion Pantheon

 

[Shaya]

Pantheon's aegis is such a lovely level of bull ****.

 

[makoforce]

Seriously though since we are on bot lane.. Graves or Sivir as both seem really prominent right now

 

[DMG]

Both

Or max hawkshot with Ashe

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Ziggs mid is the best lane.

 

[DMG]

Yorick mid is a little too troll for me to do, but god damn I love people picking Kass

 

[Teh Brettster]

Ziggs mid is the best lane.

Aye... it feels nice to win vs Ryze. (Vlad main... Ryze usually farts on me.)

 

[DMG]

psh the Ryze was bad and I came with the force of Nautilus ganking him

Lol losing that game was a bit eh

 

[Teh Brettster]

Losing that game was very eh. I didn't think it possible tbh. But then we all kept getting caught by wards.

(Btw wasn't talking about just that Ryze. I've won vs a few now.)

 

[Hylian]

I still say Annie/Cho is the scariest lane. Stun -> Rupture -> Incinerate -> Silence pre-6.

Stun -> Rupture -> Incinerate -> Silence -> Tibbers -> Feast post-6. Kills anyone, can only be avoided by pretty much just sitting by your tower and never getting to farm or get experience lol.

 

[Vyke]

Someone give me the numbers on Shyvana's damage. Mostly Physical, or Magic?

 

[DMG]

Magic

Magic

 

[Shaya]

Shyvana's skill shot (that also applies an on hit effect damage) is magic.
Her ult initial burst is magic
Her fire spin is magic.
Her q is physical!

 

[john!]

if you check ranked stats you can see the amount of physical vs. magic damage

shyvana is mostly magic damage

 

[Shaya]

How much physical damage she can do as she moves towards late game becomes pretty monumental though. Those ranked stats include farming minions, which woopdeedoo a majority of her minion farming is with her w.

 

[Mogwai]

streaming a couple solo queue games: http://www.justin.tv/smashgizmo

 

[Pakman]

Leona Lux sounds so janky. I like it.

 

[Faithkeeper]

Scenario:

You have 4 friends to play some premades with. 3 are distinctly better than the other 2 because the other two had played 3's for their first 400 normal wins. What are the best two roles to "sacrifice" until everyone can catch up?

 

[Wave⁂]

Top and support. Top just needs to farm and try not to get ganked. While supports do more than babysit their AD carry, the other three players can pick up the slack with warding, timing buffs and objectives, general map awareness, stuff like that.

 

[PhantomX]

Except top also gets the least help, so you want stronger players there that you don't have to worry about.

 

[MacD]

good ol malz ww combo

 

[Ussi]

Mid isn't a bad position to put someone new on... from my experience being a nub and playing with other level 30s before.

 

[Bartolon]

Can I come in the cool guy club now, I am in the 1900! =D

 

[Faithkeeper]

ok. Can I complicate things a bit? The three who do 5s each play 2 roles better than the others.

Player A) AD carry and Mid
Player B) Top and Jungle
Player C) Jungle and Support

I have a question in theory. If the support is weak, won't the other team be able to capitalize on that and zone out the AD carry as well? (Thus "taking out" two players rather than one? Or does it not work like that?)

 

[Frolossus]

ok. Can I complicate things a bit? The three who do 5s each play 2 roles better than the others.

Player A) AD carry and Mid
Player B) Top and Jungle
Player C) Jungle and Support

I have a question in theory. If the support is weak, won't the other team be able to capitalize on that and zone out the AD carry as well? (Thus "taking out" two players rather than one? Or does it not work like that?)

if the support is bad all they have to do is stay in the bush and heal spam the AD
if they walk into a position that gets them killed then you yell at them until they stand further back

 

[Lovage]

at low elo bot lane is 95% the ad doing everything (changes a lot at higher elo)
so it doesn't really matter if your support is mediocre, if your ad is good he'll still stomp all the other ****** ad's he faces.

 

[Omni]

one more win away from a full jungler win page

skarner, udyr, and nocturne. dayum

edit: actually, f-dat. the only loss was a 7-5-20 game with Skarner. full win page achieved imo

 

[john!]

ok. Can I complicate things a bit? The three who do 5s each play 2 roles better than the others.

Player A) AD carry and Mid
Player B) Top and Jungle
Player C) Jungle and Support

I have a question in theory. If the support is weak, won't the other team be able to capitalize on that and zone out the AD carry as well? (Thus "taking out" two players rather than one? Or does it not work like that?)

honestly, a bad support doesn't reduce your odds of winning as much as a bad ad/ap/top/jungle

every lane has stupid cheese strategies honestly, you can play the same way most of the time and do fine unless your opponent is really good:

top: pick a high sustain hero, farm farm farm, push push push, and pack teleport for dragon fights

mid: add up your spell combo damage + ignite (because every solo queue ****** brings ignite) and if it is greater than their current health, kill them. rinse and repeat

bot: if you have better harass and a better support, force other duo out of lane. if you have worse harass and a worse support, try to farm safely. if neither are true, ward lane and stay there until the 40 minute mark

jungle: camp a lane, go into enemy jungle at 7:20 and steal the buff they started at, ward dragon and do it when enemy jungler ganks top

 

[Faithkeeper]

Lovage, would you say that's true for ~1400 elo? It seems like that's the low-midish elo line.

@bad support doesn't matter much

I asked because Voorhese is always telling me about how when he gets a bad support he gets denyed during all of laneing phase and gets behind in CS and in some cases exp. + other team gets free dragons

 

[john!]

i always avoid going bot lane in solo queue if i can, but when i end up going and find i have a bad support, i often get wriggles as a first item. the lifesteal helps you heal yourself up without constant support, and the free ward is good because bad supports don't ward enough

wriggles 2gud

 

[voorhese]

^ I always rush wriggles also. My random supports either stay so far back i can't get any cs because i will just get poked/comboed or they try to poke to hard while im getting CS and get dropped to half. Like 99% of the supports i get as randoms never go in bushes, and just let them have bush control and no wards for bushes either.....they either just run past both waves or stay near turret while the lane is in the middle...like literally close to that, I am not exaggeration about going past both waves, but they usually aren't THAT far back, but close. No ward coverage, they buy like 1 ward to start, and then don't go back till like lvl 6+ it's ridiculous.

 

[john!]

you could try using your wriggles ward for the bush so they don't zone you

most people won't bother pink warding the bush

sometimes you just can't win your lane though, **** happens, just let them take the tower instead of giving up free kills, then farm once the lane is pushed to near your second tower

bot lane is really dumb right now and i hope riot does something to try and change the meta for that

 

[voorhese]

The hard part is pre wriggles. and i can't stop the support from derping and giving up kills. Also when that happens they get towers anyway =(