Ground breaking new Ic ability or monstrosity you decide

[swordgard]

How do you test something like knee with one person, aka, only two hands? I'd try, but I can't.

Frame by frame.

 

[Smoom77]

Frame by frame.

That's even harder. I can't press Z with the controller with ICs on it because they'll jab (I have Z as attack), and if I try to use Z with Falcon's controller, then it's EXTREMELY awkward. Am I missing something?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So, has anyone figured out what is the prevalent factor in this.

Cause so far we know what deals this and what are possible explanations
-Grabs cause fusion>>>>Either altered state or hitting nana alone causes fusion, no hitlag on user
-Pika jolts>>>>Either electricity, or hitting nana alone, or altered state(maybe electricity does make you enter a altered state due to some modifier on the time spent in hitlag), no hitlag on user
-Lasers>Hitting nana alone, transcendent priority, still no hitlag on user



So first i think we need to try achieving this with no projectiles move(try falcons knee, its electric and isnt a projectile). Then we need to try with non electric moves(laser isnt electric though). Then we can pretty much forget the transcedent priority crap, that only makes it easier to hit them in it.

It's been tried with ganons dair and didnt work iirc

 

[Scaphist]

So has anyone tried with spacy shines? Not sure if they're electric and the hitbox doesn't disappear after a hit but I'm just throwing it out there.

 

[TeSik]

I did not read all 11 pages so I must apologize; but has anyone recognized any weird hitbox properties?

Just watch 1:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEoW3VZKQlU

 

[Smoom77]

I know...I just saw that. I was sorta creeped out. I had never played a match in fusion. I should do one match because I can desync and chaingrab. The person who made that video (is it you) can't really do much or use ICs.

 

[Attila_]

i hate to say it, but this has to be banned. i dont really know how to go about it though...

ice climbers may end up getting banned as a character now...

 

[Yumewomiteru]

i
ice climbers may end up getting banned as a character now...

NO NEVER!!

Why bother banning IC's when you can just ban fusion? Its not like its going to randomly happen during a match, Its like saying MK randomly IDC by pure randomness.

 

[Alfa]

I doubt that IC's will be banned, it is an extremely situation technique that only works against a handful of the cast, and under very rare conditions, that may never occur if the other player doesn't use a certain move with the character. Even if this were to occur in a match, they can be seperated by being placed in a position where they need to UpB/SideB, and the other glitch can still occur where Nana gets stuck in helpless, giving ICs the worst recovery in the game.

Although they can still get cheap kills when BS happens, it doesn't warrant a ban, look at G&W's judgement for example, occasionally, a 9 can appear and get a cheap kill, but a 1 can also appear and screw you over, just like with this, the opponent can randomly teleport to the bottom of the stage and die, or the glitch could occur where nana is stuck in helpless and screw over the ICs. Both this and G&W's judgement are also avoidable, getting cheaply killed by either would be your own fault, as G&W's judgement is a laggy move without very good range, and doesn't always have the cheap killing power, and the IC's fusion is triggerable only by the other player's actions.

 

[deepseadiva]

Running blizzards, no killing Nana, ****ing flying chaingrabs...

omfg...

 

[Attila_]

ok then, presume that i 'accidentally' fused against a falco (its not like you can tell falco not you use his lasers; its all he has against the ics). try proving that i did it deliberately (since it is very possible to do by accident). and once ive fused, then wait? he both stop playing until i use a recovery move. lol. in short, because it can happen by accident, you cant really ban it or police it properly.

and alfa, this is nothing like judgement. i jump, you get teleported under the stage and die. gg. judgment is completely different.

i love ics, and would love for them not to be banned, but at this point, i can definately see it happening in the future.

 

[Tesh]

Pro-ban: I'm so sick of safely racking up damage on them and then all it takes is 1 Fsmash/Dair and all I can do is watch as my character is teleported under the stage AT ANY PERCENT.

Anti-Ban: If you scrubs would just space better, you wouldn't get hit with anything. Ice Climbers have NO smash/aerial setups.



Honestly though, can't you just tell IC players that they MUST diffuse immediately, when this happens. Just using Up B onstage will do that correct?

 

[TeSik]

No, I don't think this will change very much. This can't really happen accidently in a real match, why should it? Do ICs want to use SideB more often in matches now? Or what is more important, you have to SideB into the other direction in the first place to get the fusion as Nana has to be hit first. That's never the case because Nana doesn't run in front of you when approaching.
One thing is that might happen in are doubles but the chances are (or should be) equal to the past where it never actually happened.

Oh and the ICs were played and the video made by a friend of mine

 

[EverAlert]

ok then, presume that i 'accidentally' fused against a falco (its not like you can tell falco not you use his lasers; its all he has against the ics). try proving that i did it deliberately (since it is very possible to do by accident). and once ive fused, then wait? he both stop playing until i use a recovery move. lol. in short, because it can happen by accident, you cant really ban it or police it properly.

and alfa, this is nothing like judgement. i jump, you get teleported under the stage and die. gg. judgment is completely different.

i love ics, and would love for them not to be banned, but at this point, i can definately see it happening in the future.

I think you're overlooking the fact that this is an extremely situational technique that is harder to perform than chaingrabbing, with less desirable results. Teleporting opponents with this doesn't guarantee death except in rare cases, whereas chaingrabbing guarantees the stock, works on every character, only requires you to land a grab while Nana is still alive, and doesn't require your opponent to be dumb.

It is completely unreasonable to expect a less effective, MORE situational technique than chaingrabbing to be banned. If this is banned, it will not be because of the teleporting.


btw the Falco example is fallacious, it's the same as saying Dedede's standing CG should be banned because it breaks the Samus matchup, when in reality there's not much Samus can do to Dedede to begin with. There are other, better lines of reasoning.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah this shouldn't be banned, considering so far we have only got it to work with electric projectiles. This should only be considered to be banned if IC's were already the best character in the game by a fair way. But they're not, and although this tech will definately help certain (though probably very few) matchups, and it may bump them up a spot or two on the tier list, it won't break them as character.

 

[C~Dog]

It wont break characters, but it could very well break matchups if there's a reliable way to do it.

Poor falco lolll

 

[Smoom77]

I have no opinion about this technique's ban-ability, but I want to keep working. So far these attacks work, right?

Grab
Falco's Laser
Wolf's Laser
Pikachu's thunderjolt
Lucas's PK Thunder
ZSS's Stun Shot

Are there any others?

 

[Frolossus]

does this glitch mess up replays?
does it work in b+?
also some people would prefer to fight ICs when they are fused.

 

[kackamee]

I think it'll be banned as long as it's able to teleport your opponent at all. If you can get rid of it there's no reason to ban it.

 

[B0NK]

I found another way to chaingrab while fused,

After you b-throw to nana, nana will ground release the opponent if you don't buffer a throw. So instead of buffering in the throw to chaingrab just let nana release the opponent.

Nana will ground release the opponent behind popo, so you just have to turn around and grab.

So while fused, Popo Grab> B-throw> Nana Regrab > Grab Release> Popo Turn-around grab> Repeat

This can't be done if the character is released off an edge, but this can easily be done in the middle of a platform.

 

[Rudementry]

Wow... this looks... really, really, cool. Something this beautiful shouldn't be banned.

Ok while messing around with it I got a really weird glitch. Nana went into the helpless falling state during a grab, and never stopped. IDK if this is common or what, but she won't die, and if I hit her she immediately does up B and then goes back to the state. Also no matter what I do I can't unfuse.

Lol rofl you can chain grab popo and nana at the same time. XD

Wow. When I died I came back fused. I'm assuming thats normal right?

Wow fusing isn't really all that hard. I've gotten on the first try of a falco's laser twice now.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I suggest letting it be legal at first, and if this gets abused and IC's start placing extremely higher in tournaments, then maybe ban it. If it turns out this doesn't significantly affect IC's tournament standings, then let it be.

 

[J4pu]

1. whoever made the multiple jumping video, you don't even need to move towards falco (not sure about others) while grabbing him, just wait until you reach the apex of your jump then press jump again. That should help you avoid nana throwing them.

2. @ B0NK are you saying they can't make themselves air release for some reason?

3. As long as the teleporting glitch occurs, this will be banned in "respectable" tournaments. Luckily for me I just go to small tournaments where I can win, lol.

how they will ban it?
I'd guess if it occurs both players are forced to stop and IC player must undo it with a recovery move. I'd be really surprised if IC's got banned as a character because of this.
It's not like it's going to happen very often on accident tho.
On second thought doing it on purpose could then be used for stalling purposes, so I don't really know.
Maybe if you do it "on accident" your next move has to be an UpB while the other player can still go on attacking you, thus you will get punished, thus not a stalling tactic.

 

[GimR]

Guys I Just Discovered Something Nasty.


You Can Fuse off of MK's Tornado wich makes me believe you can fuse off of anything.



imagine how easy it would be to fuse off of snakes grenades if you just Forward B'd to make them blow up

 

[Frolossus]

videos or it didn't happen.

 

[GimR]

keep it a secret

 

[Frolossus]

how can we believe you without proof? O:

 

[ch33s3]

videos or it didn't happen.

QFT

10vids

 

[GimR]

It doesnt hurt me if you dont believe me

 

[Frolossus]

it helps us if you can back it up though :/

 

[EverAlert]

You definitely cannot fuse off anything, Falco's Jab and MK's DSmash don't work. Also pretty sure you can't force a grenade to explode without it hitting Popo.

But fusing off MK's Tornado is interesting.

 

[GimR]

You definitely cannot fuse off anything, Falco's Jab and MK's DSmash don't work. Also pretty sure you can't force a grenade to explode without it hitting Popo.

But fusing off MK's Tornado is interesting.

yeah I just tried snakes grenades and it doesn't work, but MK's tornado def. does

 

[Frolossus]

can you explain how you did it then?

 

[Tyr_03]

You all should be spending your time trying to find a way around the teleportation glitch. If there's no way to stop it from happening this will be banned. If there is, then it doesn't need to be.

 

[Frolossus]

O.o teleportation glitch? |D

 

[Firestormzero0]

I have no opinion about this technique's ban-ability, but I want to keep working. So far these attacks work, right?

Grab
Falco's Laser
Wolf's Laser
Pikachu's thunderjolt
Lucas's PK Thunder
ZSS's Stun Shot

Are there any others?

i have got it with pikachu, falco, wolf, samus, ness, lucas, and zss. its pretty easy once u get it down :D

Edit: and olimars yellow pikman fsmash and DDD's minion dude that shoots electricity :D

yeah i have got it down with all those so far. so thats 9 characters guys.

You all should be spending your time trying to find a way around the teleportation glitch. If there's no way to stop it from happening this will be banned. If there is, then it doesn't need to be.

Hes right. same as i was saying a few pages back. with the teleportation glitch in place. this WILL get banned. no question about it.

 

[St. Viers]

I'm sure that if you pm/im him, he'd be glad to tell, but why disclose secrets to an entire community when it will just lose you an advantage XD

 

[~automatic]

Ground breaking new Ic ability or monstrosity you decide

Hmm... maybe I'm not seing the bigger picture (don't really care tbh) but this really can't be worse than the death grab seing how this won't replace 0-death grabs as ICs' primary asset. Some nasty setups are possible but the glitch is omewhat gimicky (it seems so to me atm) so whatever. I honestly doubt this will radically change the ICs placing in tournaments. But what do I know I main Pikachu.

 

[Hyesz]

The running blizzard is so worth it.

 

[Smoom77]

yeah i have got it down with all those so far. so thats 9 characters guys.



Hes right. same as i was saying a few pages back. with the teleportation glitch in place. this WILL get banned. no question about it.

Which attacks of Samus, ZSS, Ness, and Lucas? Can lucas's side-b do it?