Ground breaking new Ic ability or monstrosity you decide

[Frolossus]

has anyone tried this with attacks that are ice based like ice blocks/pk freeze/blizzard?
i think ice would be the closest thing to electricity.

 

[J4pu]

somebody mentioned mk's tornado can do it for you, wouldn't that be a worse option than pivot grabbing the tornado tho?
I mean the same situation is necessary for both options (running away from tornado) and with the pivot grab you get (the possibility of) a 0-death.

 

[Frolossus]

^can you fuse in the air? if so then you can try to fuse on the nado if you're in the air and pivot grab if you're on the ground.

 

[Snipa4800]

somebody mentioned mk's tornado can do it for you, wouldn't that be a worse option than pivot grabbing the tornado tho?
I mean the same situation is necessary for both options (running away from tornado) and with the pivot grab you get (the possibility of) a 0-death.

Tornados aren't electric.

^can you fuse in the air? if so then you can try to fuse on the nado if you're in the air and pivot grab if you're on the ground.

Yes , you can fuse in the air.

 

[Firestormzero0]

Which attacks of Samus, ZSS, Ness, and Lucas? Can lucas's side-b do it?

Samus - Her Neutral B.
ZSS - Her Neutral B.
Ness - Up B
Lucas - Up B
Falco -B
Wolf - B
Olimar - Fsmash, Yellow Pikman
DDD - Minion that shoots electricity.
Pikachu - B
also tested the whole fuse by getting grabbed theory.
It Works.
I got grabbed my Marth and successfully fused. :D

i have not tried. but i dont believe Lucas's side b will allow you to fuse. Because it is not Electric, it is Fire.

 

[p8nted]

has anyone tried this with attacks that are ice based like ice blocks/pk freeze/blizzard?
i think ice would be the closest thing to electricity.

Why are you still here? If you're not going to add anything to the discussion don't post.

If you'd actually read all 13 pages, you'd see that someone posted a video where an iceblock causes the fusion. It's not just electric attacks it's attacks that immediately disappear after hitting once or really any move that can hit Nana without hitting Popo.

Also, I agree that spending our time trying to prevent the teleportation glitch will hopefully keep this from getting banned.

 

[Smoom77]

Why are you still here? If you're not going to add anything to the discussion don't post.

If you'd actually read all 13 pages, you'd see that someone posted a video where an iceblock causes the fusion. It's not just electric attacks it's attacks that immediately disappear after hitting once.

Also, I agree that spending our time trying to prevent the teleportation glitch will hopefully keep this from getting banned.

O.o. There has been no video with an ice-block fusing them...I'm the only one that has made instructional/random stuffs of the fusion and I haven't.

And he can't ask questions if he wants to. Questions include to the discussion too.

And Ness/Lucas's up-b (can't remember which one) doesn't stop when it hits nana, does it? Or MK's tornado. Or Olimar's Fsmash. Or D3's Waddledoo. I'm pretty sure it's not "attacks that immediately disappear after hitting once." We killed that theory a while ago.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Me and Kackame and another friend did this easier with Diddy's grab instead of projectiles, having Nana in her death fall state, and when you SD they'll fuse.

Somehow when Kack's ICs used u-air and got hit, Nana was formed into a z-axis form, meaning she's facing front or back, and she was facing back on us. O.o It's weird how her Blizzard or any of her attacks can't hit; although some could, like n-air and Squall.

For some reason it's hard to CG with this thing. They immediately get out of this once you do a single b-throw. Maybe a buffer f-throw would work after the b-throw.

And obviously this reforms them back when you use Belay, Squall, and sometimes when you grab the ICs, while it's easier to get a grab on this.

 

[MBlaze]

Broked.....

 

[Firestormzero0]

yeah i can get Nana to turn 90 degrees.

Its ez, just grab ur opponent and spam jump the whole time, eventually nana will jump out from the fusion and she will be turned 90 degrees. and no i disagree. when Nana is turned 90 degrees. Using Belay or squall does NOT fix the problem. i would know

 

[Sorto]

I would say that this fusion technique, if the ICs can still infinite, would possibly be the best combonitation of techniques that exist in the game.

1. Nana can't be gimped. So the IC lose there most basic weakness.
2. If the opponent is hit by a moving blizzard, the IC can pratically guarentee a grab, due to the opponents hitstun (sheildstun if they sheild). Blizzard has really good range and almost unmatched priority. This effectively increases the ICs grab range to that of a tether character. Also, add that to the fact that it is too long to be dodged.
3. If popo perfect sheilds or uses his grab armor to obtain a grab, nana will not get hit away. This will allow the popo to start a chain grab from a perfect sheild earlier since nana will not have to "return" to him(even tho here hitstun will still slow him down).

**I am sad to say, I believe a technique like this, if it could be used on command, would possibly make the ICs broken and quickly be banned from tournament gameplay.**

The main reason I feel it would be banned is, it makes it far to easy for the IC to get a grab. And if your a good player one grab=death. So the IC will easily make the entire rest of the cast unplayable. Atleast in theory.

 

[Denzi]

Well the only problems with that are that it can't be activated of your own accord and that they haven't yet figured our how to infinite.

Also, jumping with an opponent in hand is nonsense.

 

[Firestormzero0]

yes, u can infinite while fused. we have done it. its like starting all over again

 

[Sorto]

Well the only problems with that are that it can't be activated of your own accord and that they haven't yet figured our how to infinite.

Also, jumping with an opponent in hand is nonsense.

Even if it can only be activated by your opponent, it still is pratically broken. You can bait your opponent into an attack. Then just start the fusion as a counter. The fusion makes the ICs the unquestioned best character in game by a large margin. If all you have to do is bait your opponent into attacking you (which is something they must do to win), then you cant really say that you can't guarentee it. I understand that not all moves start it up. But if alot do, then it may be broken. And it may become banned as a "just incase measure". Its not like the infinite that can only be done by an opponent making a mistake with spacing. Nothing in the game forces them to space poorly. It can be started by simply reacting to them attacking you. The opponent must attack you, so that they dont stall. If this tactic becomes legal, stalling would have to be legal as well. So you no the famous M2k vs Meep match. The one where m2k glided under the stage a thousand times. Every match is gonna be like that if this is legal. Except it will start after the first hit is landed. Who would take the chance of fusing them together. If a majority of your hits can do it.
**I know so far video wise only electric moves work... But tornado working was mentioned in the thread. So who knows what else works.**

Grabs are practially guarenteed in fusion form. Combine that with the infinite. The ICS become broken!!!

 

[meepxzero]

havent messed with the defusion, but isnt the reason for the teleport glitch to happen because it keeps track of where nana should be even if shes stuck to popo? Looks like it memorizes where nana should be offstage and just teleports the opponent once they get hit to where nana is.

If nana is about to die couldnt you just seperate them to avoid the teleportation glitch? I have no idea but it makes sense why they get randomly teleported if ice climbers hit them.

I dont see this getting banned or anything if u can prevent the teleportation. Sure ice climbers become more godly, but i doubt they will be as good as mk for brokenness.

 

[Sorto]

Meep wouldn't you agree that fused ICs walking blizzard can almost guarentee a grab?

If blizzard is
Sheilded= Sheildstun effects opponent, while ICs are walking foward, to free grab
Dodged=Opponent cant dodge the whole move, hit by the end of the move and grabbed.
Hits opponent=Hitstun effects opponent while walking foward and grab
Jumped over= Simply back off and your safe

Blizzard has beastly range, ridiculous priority, and minimal lag when desynched.
Since they can walk while doing it, its range becomes beastlier... They can approach or back off.

Its like giving a character with olimars grab range (except add height to it) an infinite. Since hit or sheilded blizzard should lead to a grab. People are pissed about DDDs infinite. I doubt they would allow this.

Add to all this ridiclousness, the fact that nana cant be gimped.
Oh yea and perfect sheilds and grab armor wont send nana flying (less time for her to return to you). So if your opponent uses any move with 10-15 frames of ending lag (depending on nanas hitstun and their distance from you), has atleast minor damage on them (to make up for some of nanas hitstun time) and end on the ground, you can most likely 0-death them.
**Perfect sheilding isn't too impossible. And even if the opponent spaces well, they can be perfect sheilded and grabbed. Your opponent is forced to attack so that they dont get called for stalling**

As references:
MKs Fsmash has a Cooldown of 17 frames
Snakes uptilt has a Cooldown of 24 frames
Marth downtilt (IASA) has a cooldown of 14 frames
G&W bair fast falled perfectly to minimize lag has a cooldown of 12 frames.
Robs first Jab has a cooldown of 17 frames.

I can't see it being legal.

 

[Firestormzero0]

lol.

but this actually will be banned from IC's. cuz when ur opponent does hit nana and nana was at a high percent. the game still sees it as nana flew off the stage, and then nana tries to recover like she usually does and if she doesnt make it, she belays and falls to her death. But she actually never dies cuz her physical body never actually touches the death zone. so the game is reading it as she is falling forever. and when she is in this state and blinking and stuck to you. the camera shifts over to where nana Supposedly fell off and it stays like that. now if your opponent tries to jump while on the side that nana Supposedly fell off of. they sometimes teleport either on top of you and foot stools nana. or teleports underneath the stage.

Sometimes when nana is in this state your opponent does not even have to jump where Nana supposedly fell off. Sometimes all the opponent has to do is jump above or around you somewhere and they will teleport underneath the stage and fall to there death.

this will never be legal to do in tourny cause the teleporting of your opponent underneath the stage. but it is still fun to know.

Smoom takes several tries to do it. I can do it in midmatch my first try now.

this is the reason y this will be banned.

Meep, they dont teleport when they get hit to where nana is. they teleport when they jump from the side of the stage nana fell off of.
not only do they teleport when they try to jump on the side of the stage where nana fell off. But they can teleport underneath the stage when they input jump around you for some reason.
also the only way to seperate the IC's again once nana is about to die is to jump off the stage and use belay and hopefully you sync back up with nana like you would do normally to save nana. Cuz the game thinks she is offstage trying to recover. but after she is already blinking i think the game is reading it as she is falling forever. so its impossible to get her back. So there is no way to seperate nana from us until we respawn again.
so yeah, its gay and it will get banned. lol

 

[Sorto]

this is the reason y this will be banned.

Meep, they dont teleport when they get hit to where nana is. they teleport when they jump from the side of the stage nana fell off of.
not only do they teleport when they try to jump on the side of the stage where nana fell off. But they can teleport underneath the stage when they input jump around you for some reason.
also the only way to seperate the IC's again once nana is about to die is to jump off the stage and use belay and hopefully you sync back up with nana like you would do normally to save nana. Cuz the game thinks she is offstage trying to recover. but after she is already blinking i think the game is reading it as she is falling forever. so its impossible to get her back. So there is no way to seperate nana from us until we respawn again.
so yeah, its gay and it will get banned. lol

Wow.... yea... def ban worthyy

 

[Snipa4800]

Even if it can only be activated by your opponent, it still is pratically broken. You can bait your opponent into an attack. Then just start the fusion as a counter. The fusion makes the ICs the unquestioned best character in game by a large margin.

Know what your saying before you say it.
Fusion won't be legal unless by some miracle theres a solution to the teleportation glitch.
But , reguardless even with fusion the iceclimbers aren't the best character -_-;;.
Only electric attacks work , we already beat falco and the only other viable character that it effects would be pikachu.
No one stated metaknights tornado would work , someone was just asking the possibility or something.

 

[l!nk_aut]

since when is falcos laser an electric attack? :O

anyways. the reason for banning this technique will not be the walking blizzard, but the fact that nana can´t be gimped... (and the teleporting stuff xD )

 

[swordgard]

since when is falcos laser an electric attack? :O

anyways. the reason for banning this technique will not be the walking blizzard, but the fact that nana can´t be gimped... (and the teleporting stuff xD )

Unless it starts winning every tourney out there, wont be banned.

 

[Smasher89]

The way I see it (even though I´ve yet to test it for myself) its just matchup dependant and wont work against ICs hardest matchups anyway, snake and MK so it will only work like (if it´s easy to do) a bit similar to D3s infinites imo...

 

[St. Viers]

Snipa, learn to read please. Someone in fact did say it was possible to fuse w/ MK's tornado.

 

[GimR]

Okay I'm gonna say this one more time. YOU CAN fuse off of MK's Tornado guaranteed. It's realy easy. My and a friend were playing some friendly teams matches(Me as Icies him as MK) and we were able to successfuly Fuse off him tornadoing me mid-match with our opponents trying to stop us.

Also to fix the 90 degree glitch just grab the ledge

 

[meepxzero]

lol you know u cant ban a character for being too good. If that was the case than mk woulda been banned at the start of brawl. Lets find a way to avoid the teleportation glitch so we can exploit it haha.

 

[SOVAman]

For some reason it's hard to CG with this thing. They immediately get out of this once you do a single b-throw. Maybe a buffer f-throw would work after the b-throw.

This can be used to chaingrab though

I found another way to chaingrab while fused,

After you b-throw to nana, nana will ground release the opponent if you don't buffer a throw. So instead of buffering in the throw to chaingrab just let nana release the opponent.

Nana will ground release the opponent behind popo, so you just have to turn around and grab.

So while fused, Popo Grab> B-throw> Nana Regrab > Grab Release> Popo Turn-around grab> Repeat

This can't be done if the character is released off an edge, but this can easily be done in the middle of a platform.

seemed that everyone ignored this, when they release you have 10 frames to just regrab them, giving us a really easy chaingrab while fused.

EDIT: This is Bonk

 

[Snipa4800]

Someone in fact did say it was possible to fuse w/ MK's tornado.

I thought he was referring to something else , I missed the page where gimr announced it.

Okay I'm gonna say this one more time. YOU CAN fuse off of MK's Tornado guaranteed. It's realy easy. My and a friend were playing some friendly teams matches(Me as Icies him as MK) and we were able to successfuly Fuse off him tornadoing me mid-match with our opponents trying to stop us.

Also to fix the 90 degree glitch just grab the ledge

How the hell does metaknights tornado work?.....
If thats true it changes everything.

Im going to try the chaingrab right now B0nk.

 

[Tyr_03]

It would be much better if you found a way to stop the teleportation glitch once it's started rather than just prevent it.

If there's a way to prevent it then this glitch would work like game freezing ones where if you cause the teleportation glitch you forfeit the match. This wouldn't be ideal and it might just get banned anyway.

If there's something that you or your opponent can do that stops the teleportation glitch once it has started, there will be no reason to ban it whatsoever.

 

[JUDGE]

wooow...O.o...this looks really amazing^^
a running blizzard^^

 

[GimR]

I thought he was referring to something else , I missed the page where gimr announced it.



How the hell does metaknights tornado work?.....
If thats true it changes everything.

Im going to try the chaingrab right now B0nk.

When MK tornadoes you just Run away from him and Press B at the Exact same time. You have to do it right when you get hit.


Also, I think you might be able to do it while inside the tornado. Most Likely not, but wouldn't that be cool?

 

[Firestormzero0]

When MK tornadoes you just Run away from him and Press B at the Exact same time. You have to do it right when you get hit.


Also, I think you might be able to do it while inside the tornado. Most Likely not, but wouldn't that be cool?

lol that would be VERY kool. haha. but eh, id still rather just pivot grab the tornado.

 

[Denzi]

Apparently this first happened a while ago and no one thought much of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZMbHIbZO_U&NR=1

The community needs to spend more time looking into glitches.

EDIT: This also shows that it isn't particularly hard to activate.

 

[Sorto]

lol you know u cant ban a character for being too good. If that was the case than mk woulda been banned at the start of brawl. Lets find a way to avoid the teleportation glitch so we can exploit it haha.

Uhmm... i hope your being sarcastic b/c your completely wrong. Characters in other fighting games have been banned for being "too good." Akuma was banned from tournaments in Street Fighter II turbo. Being "too good", is the main reason they even considered banning MK. People argued that he was "too good." The reason no character has ever been banned in smash is b/c they weren't that much better then the rest of the cast (this includes MK). I mean honestly (w/ stalling rules enforced) how many characters does MK really make unplayable (65:35 match-up or worse). The bigger issue with banning is "how much" better then the rest of the cast is the character. If they make a majority of the cast unplayable then someone can atleast make a case to ban them. If they make the entire rest of the cast unplayable, then its practically an automatic ban. Again I don't think this technique would get the climbers banned. I believe that this technique would itself only be banned. Which isn't a crazy thought or even unheard of in the smash community. In melee, Ness's Yoyo Glitch/Thunder Jacket was banned, and it didn't cause any sort of stalling or anything like that. Oh yea, the soul breaker glitch was also banned (even if not used to stall).
Ness's Yoyo Glitch/Thunder Jacket Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI9KGybiCHo
Mewtwos Soul Breaker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvFQRq95ChM&feature=related

 

[swordgard]

Yoyo glitch was never banned in melee >.>


It was already near impossible to set up in a match, simna tried using it alot though but failed often too. It never was banned since the jacket can be removed too, once it hits its over.

 

[Smoom77]

Could the yoyo glitch be compared to our fusion?

-It can be deactivated (synced squall, belay, and nana being grabbed)

 

[B0NK]

Could the yoyo glitch be compared to our fusion?

-It can be deactivated (synced squall, belay, and nana being grabbed)

It's just as much ****, so why not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1fHazzXY8


TOASTY TOAST!

 

[Sorto]

Yoyo glitch was never banned in melee >.>


It was already near impossible to set up in a match, simna tried using it alot though but failed often too. It never was banned since the jacket can be removed too, once it hits its over.

I'm sorry I was misinformed. You are correct those ness techniques were never completely banned. Yet the soul breaker glitch was banned. Even if it was used offensively and not as a stall tactic, it was still banned. This still proves my original point, which was, that smash tactics, that dont simply just stall have been banned in the past.

Could the yoyo glitch be compared to our fusion?

-It can be deactivated (synced squall, belay, and nana being grabbed)

My knowledge of the yoyo glitch is limited. But I do understand the soul breaker glitch fairly well. And also, i was incorrect about the banning of the yoyo glitch, so I rather discuss the soul breaker glitch, which was legitly banned. Anyways, the soul breaker, could be deactivated on command. And comparing the two? I feel like the soul breaker was more situtaional then the fusion, so as a tactic I would consider it less useful.

*********************************************
Honestly, this new technique, alone, without the teleport glitch, or the infinite, could be considered possibly legal. A huge issue for me, is that they have an infinite as well as this glitch. This glitch seems like it could practically guarentee grabs. Thats my huge gripe and issue with it being legal (aside from the teleporting).
Let me also state, that I believe at this point in time, that the ICs infinites are totally fair. I often argue in other message boards as to there legality and fairness.
*********************************************
I already for see someone arguing with a rebuttle similar to this:
If you believe the Chain grab is fair and the new technique is fair (minus the teleporting), then wouldn't the combination also be fair. And my answer to that, is that your logic is falty.
Let me create a false theoritically technique that someone may consider fair to prove my point. Lets say the ICs could set up a yoyo glitch type technique (apparently a legal melee technique). So the new technique is considered legal by SBR standards. For those who don't no, the yoyo glitch allowed for ness to setup a hitbox on stage (invisible) and any space between him and that hitbox would be hit when he used an attack. Any attack could be used, including grabs. So the ICs can set up this hit box and grab you from anywhere on stage. Grabs beat sheilds and neutral position. The only way to not get hit is to never touch the floor (impossible) or dodge a six frame move from anywhere on the map. So free grab isn't terrible with ness right? BUT GIVE IT TO ICS AND ITS A FREE STOCK FROM ANYWHERE ON THE MAP. It would disserve to be banned. This is ofcourse theoritical and only to prove a point.

 

[ch33s3]

Smoomy asked me to share his video link. He's got tornado fusion proof, and some stuff playing around. He had to go for the night, so here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTN7DJhVPeE

 

[napZzz]

if this technique doesn't get banned then whoever makes these decisions is officially ********.

they are literally breaking the game. And glitching. Running blizzards? wtf. Thats like a free grab. Which is a 0-death. 2gay.

 

[UTDZac]

It seems this was discovered a long time ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mt_5pQK5Fs

But I guess no one payed attention to it.