Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Base-φ is better.
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Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*
- Thread starter NinjaFoxX
- Start date
- Status
lain
Smash Master
Charizard sucks. 70:30. next matchup that matters plz.
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
Charizard plays like a faster, slightly weaker Bowser with some really nasty moves thrown in for good measure.
I'd say 60:40. He's easy to infinite, but Charizard does have good range on his laggy attacks to keep the Ice Climbers away. His air game is better than yours, definitely...if he stays airborne, it gets a little tougher to handle him.
Clearly the Ice Climbers' advantage, but no worse than 60:40. He can actually avoid the grab and has the means to separate the duo (forward aerial, Rock Smash, etc.).
I'd say 60:40. He's easy to infinite, but Charizard does have good range on his laggy attacks to keep the Ice Climbers away. His air game is better than yours, definitely...if he stays airborne, it gets a little tougher to handle him.
Clearly the Ice Climbers' advantage, but no worse than 60:40. He can actually avoid the grab and has the means to separate the duo (forward aerial, Rock Smash, etc.).
Bnzaaa
Smash Ace
I haven't done the Pokemon Trainer matchup since August, so I'm not too knowledgeable about this matchup.
He moves quickly along the ground (while dashing) and is slow in the air.
Charizard has nice range on his Tilts and Jab. Down Tilt and a tippered Forward Tilt can be used to kill at higher percents. And Charizard's Smashes are powerful, but slow, with the exception of Up-Smash.
Charizard's F-Air has an odd hitbox. From far away it doesn't make you flinch, but up close it has good knockback. Back Air hits twice when sweetspotted, but lacks range. It's pretty strong. And he has a spike in his D-Air, but it's slow. Up-Air is fast with range.
He's one of the few characters that can glide, but he moves very slowly when he does.
Charizard can edgeguard pretty well with F-Air, B-Air, and even Fly Attack. Flamethrower is used by the edge too.
Charizards love to use Rock Smash. Has crazy knockback when sweetspotted, can do about 45 damage if the entire attack connects, and it ***** shields. It can also split the Climbers.
Fly Attack has Super Armor, and is a multihit move. It's possible to DI before the last hit connects, but it can split them easily, and the last hit can KO.
Charizard has awesome grab range and good throws, but doesn't have any quick throws. This severely hurts his grab game when Nana's around
Knowing the range of his attacks helps in this matchup. I think you should fight him like you would Bowser. Grabbing him shouldn't be too difficult I think. He's big, so Forward throw chains shouldn't be difficult. And hitting him with Blizzards/Squalls, and juggling shouldn't be hard either.
This is probably 7-3 in the Ice Climbers favor.
He moves quickly along the ground (while dashing) and is slow in the air.
Charizard has nice range on his Tilts and Jab. Down Tilt and a tippered Forward Tilt can be used to kill at higher percents. And Charizard's Smashes are powerful, but slow, with the exception of Up-Smash.
Charizard's F-Air has an odd hitbox. From far away it doesn't make you flinch, but up close it has good knockback. Back Air hits twice when sweetspotted, but lacks range. It's pretty strong. And he has a spike in his D-Air, but it's slow. Up-Air is fast with range.
He's one of the few characters that can glide, but he moves very slowly when he does.
Charizard can edgeguard pretty well with F-Air, B-Air, and even Fly Attack. Flamethrower is used by the edge too.
Charizards love to use Rock Smash. Has crazy knockback when sweetspotted, can do about 45 damage if the entire attack connects, and it ***** shields. It can also split the Climbers.
Fly Attack has Super Armor, and is a multihit move. It's possible to DI before the last hit connects, but it can split them easily, and the last hit can KO.
Charizard has awesome grab range and good throws, but doesn't have any quick throws. This severely hurts his grab game when Nana's around
Knowing the range of his attacks helps in this matchup. I think you should fight him like you would Bowser. Grabbing him shouldn't be too difficult I think. He's big, so Forward throw chains shouldn't be difficult. And hitting him with Blizzards/Squalls, and juggling shouldn't be hard either.
This is probably 7-3 in the Ice Climbers favor.
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
space w/ Blizzard =3 and agreed for the 7-3 matchup IC Favor
lain
Smash Master
wait... what? Bowser is WAYYY better then charizard lol.
JustNoOne
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,537
noo waii! You gotta believe in your Pokemans to get you through the rough time! When I play PT, I always love my Pokemons and take care of them with love <3 This is why Ash in the anime is so short compared to everyone else =P
I didn't insinuate or imply that Charizard was better than Bowser or the other way around.
I stated that the two play off of the same basic template, with differences here and there.
Charizard has less overall power, but can go on the offensive easier than Bowser can.
Bowser is slower, but his defensive game is very dangerous.
I feel the match is 60:40 because Charizard actually can separate the Ice Climbers with his aerials and Rock Smash, and the Ice Climbers really only have most of their advantages if together.
It might be 65:35, but I seriously doubt 70:30 is accurate.
Galanoth7395
Smash Apprentice
It seems to me like too many matchups are a big advantage for IC. We're not discussing a top tier character. I mean, they have a good amount of 80:20 matchups. But that's just my opinion.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
we just haven't gotten to them yet. chill.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
WHAT ARE YOU IDIOTS THINKING?
Charizard has many ways to fight IC's. He can flamethrower wall just as well as IC's can blizzard wall. Not only does this prevent IC grabs but it also nullifies approaches for them. So besides a blizzard/flamethrower camping game, Charizard does have many things he can do to beat out the IC's grab game.
Rock smash is big punishment for nana since her shield is unreliable, which makes for easy separation and high damage. Camping with bairs, flamethrower, and rock smash is a pretty good defense IMO. Charizard's dtilt and ftilt outrange IC's COMPLETELY, though they do have a priority advantage sometimes because of hammers.
Guys, just watch out for Charizard's dtilt because that will nick you guys a lot when you try to approach.
Charizard's grab range is way better, but IMO his grabs aren't necessarily fast enough so IC's can probably jab or c-stick him when they get grabbed so it's all good.
Anyway, the main thing charizard has in this matchup is a solid defensive game that can equal the defensive game of the ic's. Both have ways to nullify approaches, and both have a limited number of approaches because of that. Charizard has plenty of ways to prevent ic's from simply running in and getting a grab (Unlike Ivy, who is destroyed by grabs because of lack of options.)
Charizard's game is focused around his ranged flamethrower and rock smash. It can defend the approaches from any character. I actually like to consider him a defensive and tactical character, there's way too many dumb Charizards who just throw out hopeful fsmashes and usmashes just waiting to be punished. He certainly has the power, but it's a matter of looking for those opportunities to use them. Other than that, he has to rely on his flames, rock smash, jabs, dtilt, ftilt, bair, and pretty much everything fast. Heck, I still see charizards who use other throws besides uthrow at low % which is a dummy move.
I guess most charizard players out there will be a breeze for you guys since he is hard to master, but take it from someone who previously mained IC's and now mains PT.
IMO 50:50
Charizard has many ways to fight IC's. He can flamethrower wall just as well as IC's can blizzard wall. Not only does this prevent IC grabs but it also nullifies approaches for them. So besides a blizzard/flamethrower camping game, Charizard does have many things he can do to beat out the IC's grab game.
Rock smash is big punishment for nana since her shield is unreliable, which makes for easy separation and high damage. Camping with bairs, flamethrower, and rock smash is a pretty good defense IMO. Charizard's dtilt and ftilt outrange IC's COMPLETELY, though they do have a priority advantage sometimes because of hammers.
Guys, just watch out for Charizard's dtilt because that will nick you guys a lot when you try to approach.
Charizard's grab range is way better, but IMO his grabs aren't necessarily fast enough so IC's can probably jab or c-stick him when they get grabbed so it's all good.
Anyway, the main thing charizard has in this matchup is a solid defensive game that can equal the defensive game of the ic's. Both have ways to nullify approaches, and both have a limited number of approaches because of that. Charizard has plenty of ways to prevent ic's from simply running in and getting a grab (Unlike Ivy, who is destroyed by grabs because of lack of options.)
Charizard's game is focused around his ranged flamethrower and rock smash. It can defend the approaches from any character. I actually like to consider him a defensive and tactical character, there's way too many dumb Charizards who just throw out hopeful fsmashes and usmashes just waiting to be punished. He certainly has the power, but it's a matter of looking for those opportunities to use them. Other than that, he has to rely on his flames, rock smash, jabs, dtilt, ftilt, bair, and pretty much everything fast. Heck, I still see charizards who use other throws besides uthrow at low % which is a dummy move.
I guess most charizard players out there will be a breeze for you guys since he is hard to master, but take it from someone who previously mained IC's and now mains PT.
IMO 50:50
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
I am kind of going with the same thing the previous post says. I versed a charizard that actually knew what it was doing and learned some stuff.
Their flamethrower shorthopped and shorthopped fair make it very hard to approach a charizard normally. Rock smash also makes things harder because it eats so much from your shield. The only weakness that the Ice Climbers can exploit Charizard with is good bair edge guarding and CGing since he is a huge target. Juggling Charizard is another thing to look up to. Blizzard has about the same range as flamethrower and fair so it isn't as good of a spacing tool as it could be. A lot of approaches that IC's have make them Rock Smash food since their bodies are in the range of Rock Smash before most approaches of their's can do anything. This match would depend on who can predict what the best.
Their flamethrower shorthopped and shorthopped fair make it very hard to approach a charizard normally. Rock smash also makes things harder because it eats so much from your shield. The only weakness that the Ice Climbers can exploit Charizard with is good bair edge guarding and CGing since he is a huge target. Juggling Charizard is another thing to look up to. Blizzard has about the same range as flamethrower and fair so it isn't as good of a spacing tool as it could be. A lot of approaches that IC's have make them Rock Smash food since their bodies are in the range of Rock Smash before most approaches of their's can do anything. This match would depend on who can predict what the best.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
This week is Diddy Kong, this one imo is a tough matchup, but i guess it depends on the player.
also i want to add for each char whats the best grab to use on them(i.e fthrow,bthrow) and whats the best stage to fight them on.
also i want to add for each char whats the best grab to use on them(i.e fthrow,bthrow) and whats the best stage to fight them on.
ChibiIceClimberz
Smash Ace
For Diddy, I believe b-throw to d-throw or just alternate b-throws are easier on alt throwing him. But meh, aren't f-throws the easiest for most of the characters? And some for d-throws? Best stage is obviously the neutral ones right? x_x;;
*Skips matchups* I'm not good a person that deals with matchups... I don't have any benefits on talking about them.
*Skips matchups* I'm not good a person that deals with matchups... I don't have any benefits on talking about them.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
the stupid bananas will trip you up. not to mention he has a great air game. the only thing that the ICs have over him is that his up b sucks if you aren't good at controlling it.
by a range of difficulty, i'd say 60:40 Diddy.
by a range of difficulty, i'd say 60:40 Diddy.
ADHD
Smash Hero
It's dead even imo. Good IC players will use ice blocks really well to block the bananas and know how to handle them. Plus if diddy gets grabbed its all over. It's a totally momentum based matchup, if one makes a mistake then he gets punished for a pretty long time. Dash attack separates them both, and diddy's throws are pretty fast and separates them as well. Ice climbers do have a glide toss as well but its length is kinda poor but it still has its usefulness. I hate this matchup... alot. Diddy just has to really fish for opportunities with the nanerz and the IC's really need that grab.
MrEh
Smash Hero
And here I am thinking that the Bowser matchup should be discussed some more.
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
Do ice blocks give the ICs possession of a banana? Like, if I hit a banana with an IB, will it be mine?
Also, a stationary CG is optimal for the ICs, since there will probably be bananas on the field.
As far as the stage goes, I would be wary of FD. I'm pretty familiar with Diddy, and FD is definitely my favorite stage to play on because there's nothing to mess up banana combos. If you slip on a banana at Battlefield, half the time it'll end up on a platform above you, and not many Diddy's can continue the "combo" from here. CGing on a Battlefield platform is something you may want to practice...
The main thing to do is not get overwhelmed. A simple airdodge will catch a banana and put it in your possession.
Also, a stationary CG is optimal for the ICs, since there will probably be bananas on the field.
As far as the stage goes, I would be wary of FD. I'm pretty familiar with Diddy, and FD is definitely my favorite stage to play on because there's nothing to mess up banana combos. If you slip on a banana at Battlefield, half the time it'll end up on a platform above you, and not many Diddy's can continue the "combo" from here. CGing on a Battlefield platform is something you may want to practice...
The main thing to do is not get overwhelmed. A simple airdodge will catch a banana and put it in your possession.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
lol why?And here I am thinking that the Bowser matchup should be discussed some more.
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
so now its didddy o.O....watch out for the bananas since they **** the IC pretty hard and gets them desynced for a while. Micheal hey Showed that to me yesterday. use more blizzard to keep your distance?
I know you guys are doing diddy right now but I had some Link IC friendlies so I thought I would give a little insight to a matchup that A lot of Ice climber players don't see often if ever. It took a little bit of thinking but after playing ITF at the tourney I think I came up with a good summery for the IC Link matchup.
6:4 sounds right.
Link is slow and thus vunerable to grabs. Your going to grab him a good amount of the time in the matchup. The one thing about Link is that good Links will just bomb spam. If you do grab Link, He'll most likely have a bomb so you can only get so much damage in before you have to throw him away. However, you will get lucky a few times. Once in a while, Link will actually drop his bomb while he is being grabbed. If you can continue the chainthrow and move him away from the bomb, you should successfully kill him. Link will be running around the stage throwing bombs at you. He really takes advantage of platforms so pick flat levels. Link is going to build up damage slowly with his annoying spam. What really sucks is that Nana's powershields and spot dodge have a slightly different timing than popo's making her more vulnerable. This eventually becomes a weakness at higher percents. While Link is building damage slowly, you should be able to get in a quick chain grab every once in a while for a good amount of damage. Though his bombs will force you to throw him away. Desynching may not be all that useful against Link. His projectiles (bombs especially) will eat you up and he short hops projectiles so Ice Blocks aren't all that useful. Fear his zair. You may think that being short helps you but offline good Links can sweet spot it perfectly. Its also beats blizzard which can be scary. Even worse, Link will zair with bombs in hand. Links bombs will wreak havok. The best way to beat this is to learn to catch them and throw them back. This may give you opportunities and openings you would not normally have against a character who will probably be very mobile with bombs against you. Link can have 2 bombs out doing things so catch them both if you want.Iceclimbers have a tendency to try to kill vertically. This is not the way to go with Link. Link is heavy and may live. Kill him horizontally and take advantage of his bad recovery.Many Iceclimbers fear going off stage and that's understandable but against Link you should have no fear. Link likes to recover below the stage so shoot an Iceblock off or something. Don't ever play him at Norfair or rainbow cruise. If you can only ban 1. I would recommend Norfair.
ITF/anybody, If you think I made a mistake in my analysis anywhere feel free to but in.
As for Diddy I find this matchup a personal pain. Against IC Diddy's bananas can be both an asset and a pain. Because there are two of you, it may be harder for him to banana slide you. On the downside, If a banana is thrown at you and hits you, it can mess up your synched or desynched game play.
What is fun about this matchup is that Iceclimbers can hold both bananas at the same time :D. There is a trick that allows you to F-smash while holding something with item properties. (At the Link boards we call it bombsmashing) If you can do this kind of thing and hold on to both banannas, he has no banannas :D.
For more fun, learn to ZAC and keep his banana's for even longer.
Also if you can take control of even 1 banana and trip him, You might get a chain grab in.
6:4 sounds right.
Link is slow and thus vunerable to grabs. Your going to grab him a good amount of the time in the matchup. The one thing about Link is that good Links will just bomb spam. If you do grab Link, He'll most likely have a bomb so you can only get so much damage in before you have to throw him away. However, you will get lucky a few times. Once in a while, Link will actually drop his bomb while he is being grabbed. If you can continue the chainthrow and move him away from the bomb, you should successfully kill him. Link will be running around the stage throwing bombs at you. He really takes advantage of platforms so pick flat levels. Link is going to build up damage slowly with his annoying spam. What really sucks is that Nana's powershields and spot dodge have a slightly different timing than popo's making her more vulnerable. This eventually becomes a weakness at higher percents. While Link is building damage slowly, you should be able to get in a quick chain grab every once in a while for a good amount of damage. Though his bombs will force you to throw him away. Desynching may not be all that useful against Link. His projectiles (bombs especially) will eat you up and he short hops projectiles so Ice Blocks aren't all that useful. Fear his zair. You may think that being short helps you but offline good Links can sweet spot it perfectly. Its also beats blizzard which can be scary. Even worse, Link will zair with bombs in hand. Links bombs will wreak havok. The best way to beat this is to learn to catch them and throw them back. This may give you opportunities and openings you would not normally have against a character who will probably be very mobile with bombs against you. Link can have 2 bombs out doing things so catch them both if you want.Iceclimbers have a tendency to try to kill vertically. This is not the way to go with Link. Link is heavy and may live. Kill him horizontally and take advantage of his bad recovery.Many Iceclimbers fear going off stage and that's understandable but against Link you should have no fear. Link likes to recover below the stage so shoot an Iceblock off or something. Don't ever play him at Norfair or rainbow cruise. If you can only ban 1. I would recommend Norfair.
ITF/anybody, If you think I made a mistake in my analysis anywhere feel free to but in.
As for Diddy I find this matchup a personal pain. Against IC Diddy's bananas can be both an asset and a pain. Because there are two of you, it may be harder for him to banana slide you. On the downside, If a banana is thrown at you and hits you, it can mess up your synched or desynched game play.
What is fun about this matchup is that Iceclimbers can hold both bananas at the same time :D. There is a trick that allows you to F-smash while holding something with item properties. (At the Link boards we call it bombsmashing) If you can do this kind of thing and hold on to both banannas, he has no banannas :D.
For more fun, learn to ZAC and keep his banana's for even longer.
Also if you can take control of even 1 banana and trip him, You might get a chain grab in.
lain
Smash Master
diddy kong is so annoying. i just go ddd in this matchup ><
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
updated.got off work late so yeah...
anyways, this week is the older Kong another easy one right?
anyways, this week is the older Kong
another easy one right?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
60:40 ICs. don't even need CGs, but he's a big target so getting a grab/ punishing end lag may not be too bad.
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
Probably in the ICs favor, but not something to underestimate.
DK is fast, and if you don't space just right, you'll be punished.
Keep in mind that someone who mains a huge character like DK is very good at spacing and not getting hit, and especially not getting grabbed. Combine this with DKs insane range and power and you have a matchup that relies on each character capitalizing on the other's mistakes.
I recently played a DK, and he used his grounded up-B in the same way Bowser uses his fortress. Every time he would do this, he would end up behind me. This provides for an easy grab. Just something to keep in mind.
DK is fast, and if you don't space just right, you'll be punished.
Keep in mind that someone who mains a huge character like DK is very good at spacing and not getting hit, and especially not getting grabbed. Combine this with DKs insane range and power and you have a matchup that relies on each character capitalizing on the other's mistakes.
I recently played a DK, and he used his grounded up-B in the same way Bowser uses his fortress. Every time he would do this, he would end up behind me. This provides for an easy grab. Just something to keep in mind.
Bnzaaa
Smash Ace
Donkey Kong is very strong, heavy, and deceptively fast. His biggest advantage in this matchup is his range.
A good DK can make it difficult to get inside. His Forward-Tilt has really good range. His Down-Tilt has more use in this matchup because it has little less range, for more speed, quicker cooldown, and a chance of causing tripping, which isn't good. Up-Tilt is fast, and covers above and behind him. It's a good setup move, that beats out anything we throw from above.
His Smashes are powerful, but are situational in this matchup. Down-Smash can be used out of a Jab-Cancel. It covers both sides of him as well as above him. If he misses or if it's powershielded, the end lag is enough where he can get grabbed.
Up-Smash also kills early, but you have to be directly above him in order to get hit. There's also ususally a better option than Up-Smash if the Climbers are directly above DK.
Forward Smash will be one of the main used kill moves. It's his slowest smash, but it has range, and is strong. Plus the hitbox stays out for a while if it connects with anything (A single Climber or shield.) making it easy to run into (especially Nana.)
DK will try to force the action into the air. While his ground game is good, it's not enough to keep him from getting grabbed. His air game isn't the best, but it's enough to beat out the Climbers.
DK has many ways to do this. Up-Tilt is one of the ways. His most famous one is probably the Down-B. It has deceptive range, set knockback, and deals good damage. It's nearly impossible to punish while on the ground. This move destroys shields, and pushes the Climbers back too far to punish if they are hit in their shield. The best thing about this move, is that it forces the Climbers into the air. If it doesn't hit them into the air, they have to get into the air to attack DK.
DK's Up and Back throws are probably fast enough to split the Climbers, though I highly doubt anyone would try that.
If they do grab you, it will be with the Cargo Carry. The lower DK's damage is, the more attacks DK can take before dropping the Solo Climber. At higher percents, a smash may be enough for him to drop the Climbers.
In the air, DK has his B-air. It has awesome range, and can be used as an approach. It can be used twice in on shorthop, so it has little cooldown. It's also pretty fast (frame 7). I've managed to powershieldgrab it before, but I don't know if you can do that if DK spaces well.
Up-Air is very fast (frame 5), can juggle at low percents, and can kill at high percents. It also has high priority.
If DK is facing forward while in the air, expect him to airdodge or N-Air. F-Air is too laggy to use on a grounded opponent most of the time.
His edgeguard game is probably good. His B-Air can serve as a wall of pain at low percents, and has the range to hit the Climbers out of Squall Hammer. His Tilts can also hit the Climbers out of Squall Hammer. Also, DK has 3 spikes (D-Air. F-Air, Side-B.)
DK is hard to edgeguard for most characters. He has a linear recovery, but his Up-B has invincibility frames on the startup, and can do a lot of damage if you don't DI out of it. It last a long time, making it difficult to edgehog him. They can cancel their landing lag of their Up-B by hovering close to the ground, so they won't be recovering high.
DK's Giant Punch (Neutral B,) is probably his best kill move. It has insane range, with low cooldown, making it difficult to punish. When it's fully charged, it is a great damage builder at low percents, with the ability to kill at high percents. If DK winds up his punch 9 times, it will have more knockback than a fully charged punch. Watch out for reverse Giant Punches.
It doesn't take much for DK to take out Nana if the Climbers become separated, and he can do fairly well against a Solo Climber.
DK's moveset becomes severly limited because his moves are either too laggy and/or situational. He's also a huge target, so he has trouble getting by blizzard walls. Squall Hammer works well to build great damage and set up juggling opportunities. He can easily hit you out of Squall Hammer so be smart about it. One use of Squall Hammer is when he uses Down-B, you can Squall out of a short hop. Juggling him with Up-Air is no problem, due to his size. He also vulnerable from under.
Like FrozenPopo said, you don't really need the chaingrabs, but if you do manage to grab him, then the Forward Throw chaingrabs the best way to go. He's a big targets, so he leaves a bit of room for error.
The best way to kill him is to send him downwards. Spiking him works well because of his lack of vertical height in his jumps. Killing him upwards is your next best chance, because his horizontal recovery gains a lot of distance.
One stage you definitely want to avoid against DK is Brinstar. That is easily DK's strongest stage and one of the Ice Climber's worst. Platform stages are bad too.
Final Destination and Yoshi's Island (Brawl) are good stages to take DK to I think.
The DK boards discussed this matchup before.
It's either 6-4 or 7-3 in the Ice Climbers favor.
A good DK can make it difficult to get inside. His Forward-Tilt has really good range. His Down-Tilt has more use in this matchup because it has little less range, for more speed, quicker cooldown, and a chance of causing tripping, which isn't good. Up-Tilt is fast, and covers above and behind him. It's a good setup move, that beats out anything we throw from above.
His Smashes are powerful, but are situational in this matchup. Down-Smash can be used out of a Jab-Cancel. It covers both sides of him as well as above him. If he misses or if it's powershielded, the end lag is enough where he can get grabbed.
Up-Smash also kills early, but you have to be directly above him in order to get hit. There's also ususally a better option than Up-Smash if the Climbers are directly above DK.
Forward Smash will be one of the main used kill moves. It's his slowest smash, but it has range, and is strong. Plus the hitbox stays out for a while if it connects with anything (A single Climber or shield.) making it easy to run into (especially Nana.)
DK will try to force the action into the air. While his ground game is good, it's not enough to keep him from getting grabbed. His air game isn't the best, but it's enough to beat out the Climbers.
DK has many ways to do this. Up-Tilt is one of the ways. His most famous one is probably the Down-B. It has deceptive range, set knockback, and deals good damage. It's nearly impossible to punish while on the ground. This move destroys shields, and pushes the Climbers back too far to punish if they are hit in their shield. The best thing about this move, is that it forces the Climbers into the air. If it doesn't hit them into the air, they have to get into the air to attack DK.
DK's Up and Back throws are probably fast enough to split the Climbers, though I highly doubt anyone would try that.
If they do grab you, it will be with the Cargo Carry. The lower DK's damage is, the more attacks DK can take before dropping the Solo Climber. At higher percents, a smash may be enough for him to drop the Climbers.
In the air, DK has his B-air. It has awesome range, and can be used as an approach. It can be used twice in on shorthop, so it has little cooldown. It's also pretty fast (frame 7). I've managed to powershieldgrab it before, but I don't know if you can do that if DK spaces well.
Up-Air is very fast (frame 5), can juggle at low percents, and can kill at high percents. It also has high priority.
If DK is facing forward while in the air, expect him to airdodge or N-Air. F-Air is too laggy to use on a grounded opponent most of the time.
His edgeguard game is probably good. His B-Air can serve as a wall of pain at low percents, and has the range to hit the Climbers out of Squall Hammer. His Tilts can also hit the Climbers out of Squall Hammer. Also, DK has 3 spikes (D-Air. F-Air, Side-B.)
DK is hard to edgeguard for most characters. He has a linear recovery, but his Up-B has invincibility frames on the startup, and can do a lot of damage if you don't DI out of it. It last a long time, making it difficult to edgehog him. They can cancel their landing lag of their Up-B by hovering close to the ground, so they won't be recovering high.
DK's Giant Punch (Neutral B,) is probably his best kill move. It has insane range, with low cooldown, making it difficult to punish. When it's fully charged, it is a great damage builder at low percents, with the ability to kill at high percents. If DK winds up his punch 9 times, it will have more knockback than a fully charged punch. Watch out for reverse Giant Punches.
It doesn't take much for DK to take out Nana if the Climbers become separated, and he can do fairly well against a Solo Climber.
DK's moveset becomes severly limited because his moves are either too laggy and/or situational. He's also a huge target, so he has trouble getting by blizzard walls. Squall Hammer works well to build great damage and set up juggling opportunities. He can easily hit you out of Squall Hammer so be smart about it. One use of Squall Hammer is when he uses Down-B, you can Squall out of a short hop. Juggling him with Up-Air is no problem, due to his size. He also vulnerable from under.
Like FrozenPopo said, you don't really need the chaingrabs, but if you do manage to grab him, then the Forward Throw chaingrabs the best way to go. He's a big targets, so he leaves a bit of room for error.
The best way to kill him is to send him downwards. Spiking him works well because of his lack of vertical height in his jumps. Killing him upwards is your next best chance, because his horizontal recovery gains a lot of distance.
One stage you definitely want to avoid against DK is Brinstar. That is easily DK's strongest stage and one of the Ice Climber's worst. Platform stages are bad too.
Final Destination and Yoshi's Island (Brawl) are good stages to take DK to I think.
The DK boards discussed this matchup before.
It's either 6-4 or 7-3 in the Ice Climbers favor.
lain
Smash Master
I can't help but think that analyzing a matchup that much on such an uneven matchup is quite a waste.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
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It's IC week in the Olimar boards. Here's the link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172222
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
this week is Falco, a campy falco is a good falco? or can you get the grab?
10handsoffmybread
10handsoffmybread
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
lol falco. i don't know about this one.... i can pressure falco pretty well, but a good falco will spam/camp and then pressure separate you and nana. 50:50? i really have no idea on this one.... it may be in Falco's favor....
Denzi
Smash Master
I find this post hilarious because we have it at like 70:30 you guys.
We can camp with lasers, but not as easily as we can on other characters. Our IAP's (immediate aerial phantasms) and Phantasm game in general gets demolished by Blizzard, so hit-and-run doesn't really work as well. Also, the fact that it's extremely dangerous to try and grab you kills another great part of our game: the CG and options out of Dthrow. If a Falco does get a grab, he'll probably Bthrow, as that's the best at seperating the IC's. Our ground game is fairly short ranged and as such, it is tough to combat you there. Our best ranged attack is the Reflector, but the large amount of lag afterwords discourages many from using it, especially against IC's. In the air, I'd say there's not much you can do to us, but getting you in the air in the first place is tough. Platform game: We win that too, you should be watching out for SH Nairs mainly. Getting kills: all we can really hope for is gimping you. Other than that, we have the laser -> boost Usmash combo, but if you can shield the laser, we're prety much going to get grabbed.
Overall, Falco's options vs IC's are extremely limited, and theres not much he can do safely aside from camping with lasers.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
from the falco boards:
XxBlackxX said:
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
updated. Falco is now at 65:35
This weeks discussion is Fox(my main ;p)
we'renot as ruthless at Pika, but pretty dam close.
This weeks discussion is Fox(my main ;p)
we'renot as ruthless at Pika, but pretty dam close.
vadgama
Smash Journeyman
IC vs mario is more like 6:4 not 7:3. Way to big there guys.
Bnzaaa
Smash Ace
That is an old ratio and there will be a discussion about it eventually. The most recent discussion has it at 60-40, but there will be another one later.
I'll be back with some info on this matchup.
smaci92
Smash Lord
i LOVE chaingrabbing fox 
M@v
Subarashii!
IC's are a pain...freaking CG to meteor combos GAH.
TakFR
Smash Lord
8:2 at the least
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