Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
the bad ones certainly are. too bad that's what most zelda users are: n00bs. I don't think I've faced another good Zelda IRL yet.
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Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*
- Thread starter NinjaFoxX
- Start date
- Status
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
Never get yourself in the air with this match up. Keep yourself as stay-put as possible with blizzard camping (desyncing it is the best since it provides a wall). If he get's you in the air, it will be very hard for you to get back down and if you do, Nana might not be the same. Squall hammer is a bad way to approach since Sonic has some moves that outprioritize it. Play smartly with your shield and make sure he doesn't get too close or else he will continue to be way too close for your to counter his comboing.
Popertop
Smash Champion
Mocha from Louisiana is really good.
Unfortunately he quit. :*(
Unfortunately he quit. :*(
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
that doesn't help. I live in ohio. I don't know any other Zelda mains here.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
the dins make it annoying.... especially if she nocks them in the air and then just spams them over and over again... i'd still say she has maybe 60:40 advantage. 70:30 seems a bit much, but my head hurts and really don't feel like arguing now....
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
despite the fact that you are agreeing that zelda is advanatged. I can't agree with this. din's shouldn't be hurting you THAT much
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
Well, the only thing Ice Climbers can do to avoid Din's fire in the air is to air dodge since none of their aerials can cancel the hitbox with a "clash." For this match up, Ice Climbers have to be more on the defensive but not defensive enough to become campy. Shield is strongly suggested since a full shield can't be shield poked by Up or side smash and you can't be grabbed out of it thanks to Nana. Spacing is key here in order to beat Zelda since her smashes can easily desync you with Nana.
Once you get her in the air, the match is mostly yours since she has a terrible aerial game against your up or back air. Just predict her aerial dodges and use a falling up air with your rising up air if she does and fast fall it if necessary. Up smash on the ground after some juggling will be a good finisher against her. If you see her use Farore's wind, you can quickly back air her and if she does successfully do it, a dair on her reappearing site will put her in the air once more. Even so, being cautious is good if your versing a Zelda player that has good spacing for landing sweetspots with her lightning kicks.
I would still say that the match up is slightly favored toward Zelda since she has a very powerful ground game. 55:45 Zelda is my prediction.
Once you get her in the air, the match is mostly yours since she has a terrible aerial game against your up or back air. Just predict her aerial dodges and use a falling up air with your rising up air if she does and fast fall it if necessary. Up smash on the ground after some juggling will be a good finisher against her. If you see her use Farore's wind, you can quickly back air her and if she does successfully do it, a dair on her reappearing site will put her in the air once more. Even so, being cautious is good if your versing a Zelda player that has good spacing for landing sweetspots with her lightning kicks.
I would still say that the match up is slightly favored toward Zelda since she has a very powerful ground game. 55:45 Zelda is my prediction.
lain
Smash Master
I've played Ankoku, if that means anything. I think he's really good.
lain
Smash Master
False. Desynced blizzards don't mean ****, and iceblocks don't do much. They can just spin shot in place waiting for you to come over.
Sonic can **** your **** if he separates you guys. He's too fast.
IC's still dominate, but keep in mind Sonic can pull out a quick surprise gimp. And it's gonna be a ***** grabbing him, but it's manageable.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
*shrug*
It really doesn't mean much. ankoku's a really good sheik. But unless he's improved markedly recently, he's not the best Zelda. I haven't played him, but from what I've seen, he doesn't really know how to handle her and is kinda spammy. I don't expect he's gotten any better with her because he hates playing as her, but maybe he has in spite of himself. I haven't seen his Zelda in a few months.
Ninjalink and Ryoko Yaska. now THOSE are some fantastic Zeldas
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
this. all of this. blizzards really don't do as much as you think they do. a good sonic will wait and be patient to punish you for mistakes. most noob sonics will rush in which is where th blizzards punish best.
It doesn´t seem to me as Sonic have something to force IC´s to approach when in % lead (no projectiles...) so there´s no reason to approach him if you lead , and you should just "outwait him" winning then time is out (due to "playing to win") :/
Or does any move at all through this and punishes IC (perhaps something SDI´d)?
If this doesn´t work(which it doesn´t if Sonic takes the quick lead) then I can think that the matchup is harder then IB once or twice, waiting the rest of the match^^
Or does any move at all through this and punishes IC (perhaps something SDI´d)?
If this doesn´t work(which it doesn´t if Sonic takes the quick lead) then I can think that the matchup is harder then IB once or twice, waiting the rest of the match^^
lain
Smash Master
It doesn't matter if you approach him or not cause he can be all up in your **** in half a second at any point in time lol.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
updated. this week is Chuck Norris(capt. falcon for the ********) again, pretty easy matchup but dont get careless or youll get paunched.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
C. Falcon can be surprising in the right hands, but he's been nerfed so much if you just play smart you should win 9/10 matches. i'll say 70:30 ICs to be fair.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i say we keep this one, use the info from the other one for the matchups on this one, and reformat the first page of this to be more aesthetically pleasing/ easier to differentiate.
gantrain05
Smash Master
AHAHAHA this matchup is a joke right? its probably like the easiest matchup of any character matchup in the game, falcon = no priority no projectiles lots o lag on kill moves, and that means super easy grab infinite for the iceys 80-20 no question.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I say we arbitrarily merge the threads without regard to continuity.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
i'd rather keep mine, i mean, i have put quite the work into it, plus this one was....kinda JUST made and kinda lacks quite a bit of data
or attempt a merge?lol
or attempt a merge?lol
BlueTerrorist
Smash Ace
I did this because your data is outdated and your was inactive for quite a while. I already posted on your thread if it was ok and you said it was fine. I guess we can work together, I was on break so I didn't update in a minute.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
i lost my internet so i posted that ill update weekly
anyways, its updated again, so if something seems old or w/e just post the new material and i can update
anyways, its updated again, so if something seems old or w/e just post the new material and i can update
Funen1
Smash Journeyman
I can see a bunch of ways to contrast Falcon's running speed with Sonic's (call me obsessed). Falcon's slower than Sonic, obviously, so grabbing him is somewhat manageable (on his own if you can predict right, not just compared to Sonic), and using desynched moves for camping will still deal him some damage if he tries to approach from the ground. He does, however, have an easier time than Sonic when it comes to killing a separated Nana, as his Knee, while nerfed, still works well enough if sweetspotted, leaving Popo little time to catch up.
However, Falcon still holds very little against the ICs, despite the aforementioned advantage in gimping Nana. Many of his moves, while powerful against the lightweight ICs, are laggy enough that they are easy to prepare for and punish with a CG. Also, Falcon's lack of priority leaves him few options for approaching. Desynch-camping will deal damage if he approaches on the ground, and his aerial moves are easy to see coming. Falcon falls somewhat fast, so he can be comboed effectively, and his recovery is sub-par, leaving the ICs room to edgehog/guard him if they can get him off the stage.
Overall, I'd say the match is 70:30 in favor of the ICs.
However, Falcon still holds very little against the ICs, despite the aforementioned advantage in gimping Nana. Many of his moves, while powerful against the lightweight ICs, are laggy enough that they are easy to prepare for and punish with a CG. Also, Falcon's lack of priority leaves him few options for approaching. Desynch-camping will deal damage if he approaches on the ground, and his aerial moves are easy to see coming. Falcon falls somewhat fast, so he can be comboed effectively, and his recovery is sub-par, leaving the ICs room to edgehog/guard him if they can get him off the stage.
Overall, I'd say the match is 70:30 in favor of the ICs.
lain
Smash Master
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i think this matchup is just a question of how badly we want to insult C.F.
70:30 or 80:20? or do we meet halfway and say 75:25?
70:30 or 80:20? or do we meet halfway and say 75:25?
Funen1
Smash Journeyman
I personally think it would be 80:20 if a) Falcon ran more slowly and/or b) His moves were a bit less powerful. As bad as Falcon is in Brawl, errant hits from him do make things a little more difficult than they should be (though not by much). However, since he still runs fast and his moves still pack a bit of a punch, I stick by my rating of 70:30 ICs.
Bnzaaa
Smash Ace
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206500
The Falcon boards were discussing this not too long ago.
Falcon can do a few things. He runs fast and has a good juggling game. N-air is one of his key approaches, and can split the Climbers. His jab is also good. He can edgeguard pretty well as far as I know through Up-Airs, B-Airs, and aerial Falcon Kicks.
Up-Tilt and Down-Tilt are also kind of safe to use when properly spaced. Up-Tilt can hit you out of Squall Hammer. D-air to Knee still works, and will at least separate the Climbers.
Falcon has kill moves. However, most of these are unreliable. All his Smashes are slow, with enough end lag to punish them. The knee needs to be sweetspotted and has little range. Falcon Punch is extremely telegraphed, and can easily destroy Nana when separated.
Falcon doesn't have much priority in his attacks. This and his general lack of range make it a bit eaiser to grab him, and he can be chaingrabbed pretty eaisly (SoPo can Down Throw Falcon up to at least 70% due to his high falling speed.)
Falcon is deceptively hard to kill off the top due to his weight and falling speed. Killing him on the sides on smaller stages may work better. He has a decent recovery.
Juggling him shouldn't be much of a problem. Squall Hammer sets up well. Blizzard ***** his approaches and does major damage.
I think it's 8-2 in the Ice Climbers' favor.
The Falcon boards were discussing this not too long ago.
Falcon can do a few things. He runs fast and has a good juggling game. N-air is one of his key approaches, and can split the Climbers. His jab is also good. He can edgeguard pretty well as far as I know through Up-Airs, B-Airs, and aerial Falcon Kicks.
Up-Tilt and Down-Tilt are also kind of safe to use when properly spaced. Up-Tilt can hit you out of Squall Hammer. D-air to Knee still works, and will at least separate the Climbers.
Falcon has kill moves. However, most of these are unreliable. All his Smashes are slow, with enough end lag to punish them. The knee needs to be sweetspotted and has little range. Falcon Punch is extremely telegraphed, and can easily destroy Nana when separated.
Falcon doesn't have much priority in his attacks. This and his general lack of range make it a bit eaiser to grab him, and he can be chaingrabbed pretty eaisly (SoPo can Down Throw Falcon up to at least 70% due to his high falling speed.)
Falcon is deceptively hard to kill off the top due to his weight and falling speed. Killing him on the sides on smaller stages may work better. He has a decent recovery.
Juggling him shouldn't be much of a problem. Squall Hammer sets up well. Blizzard ***** his approaches and does major damage.
I think it's 8-2 in the Ice Climbers' favor.
How?, if IC´s have a constant blizzardwall does sonic get around this?, I know he is fast, to the cost of priority, does it mean he should just dashattack between blizzards (which doens´t seem possible..)
JustNoOne
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,537
Come on that's kinda mean, sure Falcon mabye low tier but he still has a good chance agasint the ICs!
He can split the ICs with his Nair, jabs, and Dtilt? which means he can do something to stop them from CGing him, but than again a SoPo or a SoNa can easily just like you said Dthrow chain him all the way up to 70%... But still he does well agsiant 1 Ice Climber so seperating is kinda like a must for him to make this match easier.
The hard thing is that most or all of his apporoaches are stopped by Blizzard, that alone cuts his approaching tactics to be in the air on top of the ICs, and a quick shorthop to Uair is a good way to stop him. Mr. Manly has to play defensively.
Captain Falcon is hard to kill because he has a good mid-heavy weight. It might take longer to kill him, but it's still easy to kill him because he really can't do much.
Overveiw: He can seprate the ICs okay, but other than that, we have power, range, priority, and we can kill him off pretty well. I think it should be a 7:3 advatage ICs... Don't be mean to Captain Falcon :*(
He can split the ICs with his Nair, jabs, and Dtilt? which means he can do something to stop them from CGing him, but than again a SoPo or a SoNa can easily just like you said Dthrow chain him all the way up to 70%... But still he does well agsiant 1 Ice Climber so seperating is kinda like a must for him to make this match easier.
The hard thing is that most or all of his apporoaches are stopped by Blizzard, that alone cuts his approaching tactics to be in the air on top of the ICs, and a quick shorthop to Uair is a good way to stop him. Mr. Manly has to play defensively.
Captain Falcon is hard to kill because he has a good mid-heavy weight. It might take longer to kill him, but it's still easy to kill him because he really can't do much.
Overveiw: He can seprate the ICs okay, but other than that, we have power, range, priority, and we can kill him off pretty well. I think it should be a 7:3 advatage ICs... Don't be mean to Captain Falcon :*(
lain
Smash Master
He can jump over them. True, there's not much he can do about it, but you're just... slowly coming up to him with blizzards. He doesn't have to do much.
Keep in mind though that even if people jump over the blizzards you can just spot that and uair/utilt/whatever.
Just saying.
Keep in mind though that even if people jump over the blizzards you can just spot that and uair/utilt/whatever.
Just saying.
BlueTerrorist
Smash Ace
Good stuff Hylian
.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
updated, say hi to charizard this week, another easy one right?
Funen1
Smash Journeyman
Large size plus heavy weight equals easy to CG/combo in general. Like most heavyweights, Charizard possesses some powerful, yet laggy, moves, which can be easily prepared for and punished. He does have a few things going for him, though. His jab combo comes out more quickly than you may think for a heavyweight, and the third hit can set you up for further separation. Rock Smash also comes out fast and has a disjointed hitbox to boot. In addition, Charizard is one of three characters that can glide, so killing him to the side may require some edgeguarding. Fortunately for the ICs, he isn't able to gain much gliding height without stalling first, and his Up-B isn't exactly stellar either (easily hogged if timed right, for instance).
This is by no means a tough fight for the ICs. I'm leaning toward 65:35 on this one, if only because it is rather easy to punish a lot of Charizard's moves and rack up damage.
This is by no means a tough fight for the ICs. I'm leaning toward 65:35 on this one, if only because it is rather easy to punish a lot of Charizard's moves and rack up damage.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
eh 60:40 to be fair. he can put up a bit of a fight with flamethrower and rock smash, but overall he's easily killed.
Funen1
Smash Journeyman
While we're on the topic of Rock Smash, I've been wondering about something. Does each of the Rock Smash pieces count as one move on the stale-moves list (provided they hit, obviously). If so, then its relatively rapid negation would mean PT players would really have to mix moves up to recharge Rock Smash, limiting its use a bit in the thick of battle.
Of course, I can almost see someone using Flamethrower's repeated hits to get Rock Smash off the stale-moves list. As weak as the former gets with extended use, Rock Smash would once again deal the great damage and knockback the user wants.
Of course, I can almost see someone using Flamethrower's repeated hits to get Rock Smash off the stale-moves list. As weak as the former gets with extended use, Rock Smash would once again deal the great damage and knockback the user wants.
JustNoOne
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,537
Bad math! SHUN!
Anyways, it's not that bad for Charizard.
His Rock Smash splits up the IC well, his the longest in the game if I can remember so he can grab the ICs together sometimes and split them apart. The range on his ground attacks, his Ftilt is good but they really don't do much since Charizard's Ftilt has bad start up lag. His Dtilt is okay since it's fast and has good range.
Zard has no problem gimping you, his Fair is too good knocking them back while they recover, the good thing is that on the last frame of his Fair, they're no knockback so you can get lucky.
That's all I know about Charizard. If they made Charizard reappear back in the anime it would be sex. <3
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
lol I WORK ON A BASE 90 SYSTEM!
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