Ignore.

[Xyro77]

I'd sooner lean towards 60-40 MK than 70-30. I've taken countless high level MKs to last stock, mid percent or last hit, and I only blame myself for being outplayed as the factor. I know where I went wrong. And my mistakes aside, had I not made them, yes I probably would still lose when it comes to last hit because of frame advantage, but that certainly doesn't make it 70-30.

Any vids the Samus boards currently have on the MK MU completely skew it. (M2K v Xyro? He got outplayed 10:1. Anyone with a good set of smasher eyes could see that. It's because M2K is that good and I don't think Xyro's playstyle can win that kind of MU anyway.) If one really wanted to learn how to play the MK MU, they should research into lesser known players such as LanceStern's vids (he's okay at frame traps, needs improvement in other areas), then incorporate n00b's aggression and L!te's creativity. Add in decent tech skill and reaction time, and then you have a high level Samus capable of winning that MU.

D3 MU on the other hand is extremely hard to win. For such linear gameplay, it's also the exact kind character that can counter anything Samus has. 65:35 D3 without infinite. But still, many of Samus' popular MUs aren't as bad as people think. On the other hand, when Samus mains come here to complain about other MUs, they're only shot down because they're against the mainstream ratios. This is reference to characters such as Yoshi, Fox, Peach, Mario, etc.

Our MU thread is severely lacking. But that's okay, there are only like 4-6 character boards that have decent ratios and explanations anyway.

Clove, get some vids against a high level midwest MK. I want to see how you do.

Im not gonna lie, when i played m2kat WHOBO 1, i was horrible. I recently played him(2 days after whobo 2 which was THIS april) and i took him to one stock several times(though he won 97 matches). The point is, once metaknight KNOWS what samus can do, its over. The days of "omg ive never fought a samus before and i dont know what to expect" are over. At the highest of level where both players KNOW the MU....mk wins 70-30. 60-40/55-45= the mk just doesnt know the MU yet.

 

[CLove]

I uploaded some vids of me playing singles for those who wanted to gauge if you could give any of my matchup theories some validity.

I dont have that many replays, but I grabbed the only thing I had that was semi-recent and didn't have tags of the opposing player (I want to be respectful to the people that I practice with.)

I apologize for the watermark on the vids, I didn't really want to shell out 30 bucks to buy the recording software...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRuaLKB9-js - Me vs. Marth 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2JMoPia1bc - Me vs. Marth 2

sadly it is of me against a Marth, and not a Meta...I think samus-marth is somewhere between 45-55 and 40-60.

 

[KillerJawz]

I really don't mean any offense to this at all, but that Marth clearly did not know this match up to well, or is just not aware of how to punish a Samus. He is not a bad Marth by any means, but he just does not know how to angle his shield :/. When you were approaching the edge with fairs, he could have easily just punished with OoS UpB from an angled shield.

Have you got any other matches that you wish to put forward? You performed well in those matches, not amazingly, but good enough to do well. I would like to see some other footage.

 

[IsmaR]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273715

Why is it I namesearch Xyro's name more than he does?

 

[Xyro77]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273715

Why is it I namesearch Xyro's name more than he does?

Im not gonna lie i dont play alot of wario's.

 

[Infern Angelis]

CLove is actually pretty legit. I've seen him 2-stock Infern, so tourney experience aside he's a pretty good samus.

.

It was pools...

 

[IsmaR]

No johns, sir.

 

[Infern Angelis]

But i won the tourney

 

[DtJ Composer]

Shut up infern I was helping. :ma d:

 

[Cherry64]

What Izzi Said. Congratz on winning it though

 

[KillerJawz]

Just a quick update on my writeup status:

Luigi will not be done for a while, I would like to get some more facts about him right before the specific section on his traction.

Diddy will be done probably some time next week, it's a pretty big article (not as big as Bowser's, but still).

I am also going to add a few updates to the Snake section if Xyro doesn't mind since some of the information in it is horrifically outdated.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Weegee matchup!

That's actually one of the few match-ups I'd say I know pretty well.

 

[KillerJawz]

If you wish to add something to the writeup once me and Xyro are done with it, feel free to request it.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Will do.
I'm actually excited to see more opinions on that MU.

 

[KillerJawz]

Okay I was looking at some of the matchups for outdated information (there is ALOT of it btw) and I found this statement from a Sonic main:

Sonic's U-throw kills at 200% or so and sets up for juggles, but you're light so shouldn't be hit by more than one U-air

Why on earth are we allowing such stupidity to enter our mits?

We need to get some stuff updated, seriously :/.

 

[Xyro77]

Okay I was looking at some of the matchups for outdated information (there is ALOT of it btw) and I found this statement from a Sonic main:



Why on earth are we allowing such stupidity to enter our mits?

We need to get some stuff updated, seriously :/.

How is it old? SOnics U-throw DOES kill at 200% and you should be living that long because sonic has an issue with killing. Also, samus is also very floaty so one u-air is all u should be getting hit with. never 2.

 

[KillerJawz]

How is it old? SOnics U-throw DOES kill at 200% and you should be living that long because sonic has an issue with killing. Also, samus is also very floaty so one u-air is all u should be getting hit with. never 2.

I was referring to the "Samus is light" part, I should have highlighted that part.

 

[IsmaR]

You don't piss off KJ when it comes to weight.

 

[KillerJawz]

You don't piss off KJ when it comes to weight.

IsmaR has spoken <3.

 

[ZeroL]

Hey KJ, could you change the 'Zerolucia' and 'ZAAD' in the mu articles to ZeroL ? Thanks in advance.

 

[KillerJawz]

No you keep changing your name, FAR too much.

It shouldn't matter who wrote the information, because at the end of the day, it's only to help our fellow players.

 

[ZeroL]

My name was ZeroL before ZAAD, I just change it to ZAAD to hear someone yell 'ZAAD' in a tourney. It's always been ZeroL.

 

[Throwback]

what the hell is samus supposed to do against fox? Missile spam gets reflected, he's too fast to zair reliably, you have to approach due to lazers, and he seems far better up close. Oh and he kills you as soon as you make a mistake after 100%. I know we win offstage but getting him there is easier said than done - and keeping him offstage is hard too with his rising fair 2nd jump.

Anyone got any good ways to play against him?

edit: I read KJ's stuff in the MU thread, but I really struggle using projectiles against fox's very flexible out-of-shine options.

 

[KillerJawz]

Well, if that is your main struggling point, you must consider what you can abuse Fox with. Granted, he gets into our space pretty easily, but ftilt OoS at about 30-40+ will get him out nicely, and ff uairs to perhaps a Dsmash or UpB. If your projectiles are getting reflected that easily, only using them sparingly, when Fox is off stage, you can abuse him there, but otherwise, keep them to a minimum, and only use them to bait a shine, then punish. Remember shine is frame 3, and Fox doesn't come out of it instantly either, if you shield it, a Jab will punish it nicely.

 

[IsmaR]

Simply throwing out projectiles does you no good here. People expect projectiles from Samus. Replace missiles all but entirely with Z-air, U-air and charge shots. When you do use them, think how your opponent would be thinking. I love using them when it's too stupid to use them, personally, but the best time for it is offstage, or on stages with platforms. Spacing's hard on such a fast character, as said above, but not impossible. Fall back if you need to, play it safe with tilts, F-air, FF U-air(works great when messing up Fox's recovery, along with just about any other aerial other than B-air), and Up B(very sparingly, though. Bad timing = eating a U-smash).

 

[Throwback]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think my biggest problem is that I am consistently out-spaced due to fox's speed, reflector options and lazers. That's the peril of playing samus-tier I suppose.

 

[KillerJawz]

Yup, the peril of the Samus-Tier.

Kay I lost my Diddy MU on my old computer (it recently failed on me), so I will have to start from scratch.

Apologies for the severe delay.

 

[Karcist]

Just out of interest, have any of our Samuses played a decent Wario? I've literally never faced a good one tbh :/

I play with the best Wario in MD/VA. I feel that it's not too difficult of a matchup (as long as you don't get farted on often). I would say it's about 40/60 (harder if you get hit by 40% dmg farts).

CONS:
He has better kill power than you (though his kills can be avoided with a little caution)
He has a 40 damage fart which is devastating
He has much better damage output than you
He is heavy, which certainly doesn't help with Samus's lack of kill power
He can punish your projectile cancels with DACUS

Pros:
He suffers from a lack of range (except his disjointed nonsensical grab)
He mainly relies on air approaches which leaves him open to zairs
His air game makes missile to charge shot traps useful
He can be charge shotted out of his bike for gimps (you need to hit him though, not the bike)

 

[NO-IDea]

What Wario is that Karcist? 'Cause Slikvik>BMX IMO.

 

[Karcist]

What Wario is that Karcist? 'Cause Slikvik>BMX IMO.

I was going by BMX. I haven't heard too much about slikvik.

 

[NO-IDea]

He's an oldie who doesn't play much these days (we play occasionally.) Still probably one of top 2-3 Warios on EC though.

Still a decent write-up though. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. Just curious.

 

[Karcist]

He's an oldie who doesn't play much these days (we play occasionally.) Still probably one of top 2-3 Warios on EC though.

Still a decent write-up though. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. Just curious.

Gotcha, nahh its all good. hahah. From the little I've heard of him I thought he was a Bowser main. (I might be thinking of someone else though)

 

[ZeroL]

I could also write a wario MU article. I play the second best wario in EU, namely Lord Chair. If it's needed I'll be glad to write it.

 

[SS3 Chaos]

Anybody down for a samus vs samus fight?

 

[Karcist]

Anybody down for a samus vs samus fight?

Wrong thread..


Anyways though, lets discuss the Wolf match up. I think this is one of Samus's most difficult match ups. I honestly can't think of anything that Samus really has on Wolf besides beating him off the edge.

Cons:
Wolf's air game swallows up all of Samus's except for her zair and U air
Wolf's lasers provide a very unsafe environment on the ground for Samus to lag cancel her projectiles.
Wolf's KO's Samus aeons before she can KO him (except for gimps)
Wolf's shine... *sigh*... the most painful tool he has on us... It makes the CS extremely risky and shuts down U tilt attempts when short hopped. It also hurts our ability to use super missiles safely.
He does better on *most* CP stages due to his aerial mobility

Pros:
She has a better offstage game than him and can spike him out of side B with precise timing.
Whatever anyone else can think of

 

[IsmaR]

Anyways though, lets discuss the Wolf match up. I think this is one of Samus's most difficult match ups. I honestly can't think of anything that Samus really has on Wolf besides beating him off the edge.

I used to think this way too, but recently I find myself doing better against Wolf in general(do better as Bowser actually, but I feel safer as Samus).

Cons:
Wolf's air game swallows up all of Samus's except for her zair and U air

The key, I find, is to this is not letting him get any momentum on you. His B-air shuts down several of your options if he can get in close, but his other aerials aren't too great. Just a personal suggestion, but I find N-air and F-air useful against his B-air approaches(given you stay out of its range/airdodge).

Wolf's lasers provide a very unsafe environment on the ground for Samus to lag cancel her projectiles.

Lasers are annoying, but you can get around them by playing smart. You shouldn't spend too much time on the ground in the first place if he's relying on neutral B. The closer he is, the more in danger you are trying to spotdodge or powershield them. If you are close to him, read whether he'll SH or not, try to get an SH/FF airdodge > Z-air on him, or try to approach with FF U-airs. Also, try to pick stages that have platforms. You'll have a hella easier time dealing with them on BF than you will on FD.

Wolf's KO's Samus aeons before she can KO him (except for gimps)

/shocked
Wolf does have poor recovery, on the bright side. Wolf shouldn't be killing extremely earlier, as powershield > D-smash and B-air will be mainly use to rack up damage/get you away from him. If they try to keep it fresh, or rely on spamming kill moves once you are at dangerously high percent, attempt to bait him. Lure him to the ledge if you can, space with projectiles/Z-air, just play safe in general, which you already should be doing. Stay in the air if it makes it any easier.

Wolf's shine... *sigh*... the most painful tool he has on us... It makes the CS extremely risky and shuts down U tilt attempts when short hopped. It also hurts our ability to use super missiles safely.

Spacies' reflectors = lol. You shouldn't be blatantly using your projectiles without planning ahead in the first place. Not sure where, but several people have stated on these boards before that they like to use the risk factor in their favor. Play games with them, try to catch them off guard, be unpredictable, yadda yadda. It doesn't really effect spamming missiles if you have space in between you, and if there isn't, reflected things aren't hard to shield at all. Just keep on your toes, throw shots that have expected results, don't get careless and pay attention to both of your reactions.
As an offensive/disruptive move, it isn't fantastic on Samus, either. You shouldn't be U-tilting out of the blue, for starters. If he's close, try to catch him with an Up B OoS(works wonders on platforms, too). If he tries to get back onto the stage with it, call his bluff, abuse his ending lag, get a pivot grab in, etc. Again from the personal side, I use full hop over his shine > FF U/N-air.

He does better on *most* CP stages due to his aerial mobility

Can't particularly help here. Seriously just suggest learn to CP better/learn your CPs well. I've made the mistake of taking him to stages that he was stronger on as well.

Pros:
She has a better offstage game than him and can spike him out of side B with precise timing.
Whatever anyone else can think of

You can disrupt his Side B with pretty much anything. U-air, N-air, tilts/jabs, missiles, Z-air, hell, even a well timed CS. Easier said than done, but it's something to practice on. Her great air game is really one of if not her best tool against most of the spacies.

Spoiler

I'm rusty though so take this with a grain of salt/take advice from a better Samus.

 

[KillerJawz]

IsmaR pretty much summed up the entirety of the Wolf MU if I'm perfectly honest :/. We really just need some CPs to work with and I'm sure we can get a nice write up done.

So, where exactly would you guys CP Wolf. My first instinct out of all others would be FD, but that's purely from playing like two Wolves :/ so I'm pretty clueless here.

 

[Throwback]

I would take lylat personally. Samus loves the platforms (who doesn't) and the slope. Wolf will probably ban it though.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Lylat or Delfino imo.

Lylat for obvious spacefurryrecovery reasons.
Delfino is just a personal favorite, but it seems like wolf can still have recovery issues, plus most of the transition stages have tasty platforms and Samus has some silly zair ranging abilities on some of the rooftop stages.

 

[IsmaR]

The stupid CP thing I mentioned before for me was Frigate Orpheon. Got my *** handed to me 2 minutes later there.

FD I agree on, not a bad stage actually. Going for purely the "gimp" reason is stupid(and PS1 is better for that anyway), whilst on FD, it's harder for Wolf to maintain control of the stage, or at least stop your wall o'spam.

Recently I'm liking Lylat more as a CP, and it works. Delfino I'm a little iffy about, but that might also be personal preference. Samus does pull off sexy **** on there.