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IsmaR

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Squritle vs Spamus: 55-45
Charzard vs Spamus: 4-6
Ivy vs Spamus: 35-65
Magik's Ivysuar vs spamus: 65-35

:item9:/:pt: - Overall, Slight Advantage
:007: - Even - Slight Disadvantage
:002: - Slight Advantage - Advantage
:charizard: - Advantage - Heavy Advantage
Hoh yeah.
More Ivy's need to learn to do it right.

I somewhat consider/have considered PT to be my 2nd best, so I know both sides. But my opinion doesn't count anyway.
 

Xyro77

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I think Samus overall wins but i sometimes change my mind cause of the line up that PT can do.

Char-squirtle-ivy=slight disadvantage for samus

Squirt-ivy-char= even

Ivy-char-squirt= slight advantage for samus
 

Dragonmaster_Omega

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Just call me Omega
I think Samus overall wins but i sometimes change my mind cause of the line up that PT can do.

Char-squirtle-ivy=slight disadvantage for samus

Squirt-ivy-char= even

Ivy-char-squirt= slight advantage for samus

But this is subject to change. The PT player could always change the order by switching after knocking you away or changing immediatly after being KO'd. They may run the risk of getting hit, but if the change is to someone they can use better against Samus, it throws off the system, so-to-speak.

But i digress, that is mearly my opinion.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
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But this is subject to change. The PT player could always change the order by switching after knocking you away or changing immediatly after being KO'd. They may run the risk of getting hit, but if the change is to someone they can use better against Samus, it throws off the system, so-to-speak.

But i digress, that is mearly my opinion.
thats why i said the order is important. if at any time pt goes squirtle, its over.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
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Location
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Charizard's Rock Smash has nothing on Samus' z-air. And get this. Her jab stops the attack. Hahaha! Anyway, I think out of the three from PT, Squirtle gives Samus the most trouble.
 

Cherry64

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Why on earth would Charizard use rock smash at a zairs range? :/.
I got chain grabbed by a charizoard and THEN rock smashed, legit did it all the tiems he was Chari and it does like 50+% in under 3 seconds. Its ****ing stupid.

GG's sh33n, GG's :'(
 

Karcist

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Ganon=Heavy Advantage
Bowser=Heavy Advantage


Zelda=Advantage
Yoshi=Advantage
Ike=Advantage


Captain Falcon= Slight Advantage
JigglyPuff=Slight Advantage
Link=Slight Advantage
Lucas=Slight Advantage
PT= Slight Advantage

Donkey Kong=Even
IC=Even
Luigi=Even
Peach=Even
Samus=Even
Rob=Even
Sheik= Even
G&W= Even

ZS = Slight Disadvantage
Sonic=Slight Disadvantage
Pit=Slight Disadvantage
Pikachu=Slight Disadvantage
Fox=Slight Disadvantage
Mario=Slight Disadvantage
Ness=Slight Disadvantage
Toon link= Slight Disadvantage
Marth=Slight Disadvantage

Snake=Disadvantage
Wario=Disadvantage
Diddy=Disadvantage
Kirby=Disadvantage
Lucario=Disadvantage
Wolf= Disadvantage

Olimar=Heavy Disadvantage
Metaknight=Heavy Disadvantage
Falco= Heavy Disadvantage
DDD=Heavy Disadvantage

My take on the famous bounty hunter's matchups. I started with Xyro's list (since I mostly agree with it) and changed maybe 6 or 7 of them around to suit what I think of it. Biggest change I made was Marth's placement.
 

Jalen

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Benton Harbor, Michigan
Ganon=Heavy Advantage
Bowser=Heavy Advantage


Zelda=Advantage
Yoshi=Advantage
Ike=Advantage


Captain Falcon= Slight Advantage
JigglyPuff=Slight Advantage
Link=Slight Advantage
Lucas=Slight Advantage
PT= Slight Advantage

Donkey Kong=Even
IC=Even
Luigi=Even
Peach=Even
Samus=Even
Rob=Even
Sheik= Even
G&W= Even

ZS = Slight Disadvantage
Sonic=Slight Disadvantage
Pit=Slight Disadvantage
Pikachu=Slight Disadvantage
Fox=Slight Disadvantage
Mario=Slight Disadvantage
Ness=Slight Disadvantage
Toon link= Slight Disadvantage
Marth=Slight Disadvantage

Snake=Disadvantage
Wario=Disadvantage
Diddy=Disadvantage
Kirby=Disadvantage
Lucario=Disadvantage
Wolf= Disadvantage

Olimar=Heavy Disadvantage
Metaknight=Heavy Disadvantage
Falco= Heavy Disadvantage
DDD=Heavy Disadvantage

My take on the famous bounty hunter's matchups. I started with Xyro's list (since I mostly agree with it) and changed maybe 6 or 7 of them around to suit what I think of it. Biggest change I made was Marth's placement.
Very nice sir.
 

Sedep

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But I do not believe that pikachu only have a light advantage on samus, because pikachu have a good agility and speed also

sorry if my English is bad
 
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Just gone through the OP and we need writeups for the following characters:

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Ice Climbers
Lucario
Lucas
Mario
Diddy Kong
Ganondorf
Mr. Game and Watch
Captain Falcon
Wario

If anybody feels they have enough knowledge to do a writeup for any of these characters, please post in this thread, and when we can expect the writeup to be done by.

I will happily take on Diddy Kong myself, but the offer is open.
 

DelxDoom

Smash Lord
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Was asking/responding to Cherry's post for whatever reason, it seemed scary.

But cool.

You sure Pika doesn't have like a cg or something?
 
Joined
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Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link - Omega
Ice Climbers
Lucario
Lucas
Mario - Throwback
Diddy Kong - KillerJawz
Ganondorf
Mr. Game and Watch
Captain Falcon
Wario

Thanks for volunteering guys. Anybody else is welcome to put their names down for the other characters.
 

Dragonmaster_Omega

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Just call me Omega
KJ, if that is the case, put me down as a possibility for G&W as well, not garunteed, but i play a decent G&W and may ask what he thinks, but if anyone is more experienced in the MU, then by all means they can have it.
 
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Messages
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Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link - Omega, Th3 Composer
Ice Climbers
Lucario
Lucas
Mario - Throwback
Diddy Kong - KillerJawz
Ganondorf - Xyro
Mr. Game and Watch - Th3 Composer, Omega
Captain Falcon - IsmaR
Wario

List updated accordingly.
 

DtJ Composer

The Heroine Appears
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That would be cool Omega, anytime you want to get ahold of me would be cool (I think my AIM is in my postbit or else KillerJawz is an excellent grade A stalker <3)
 
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I assure you, I'm a superb stalker ;).

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link - Omega, Th3 Composer
Ice Climbers - ZeroL
Lucario - Karcist
Lucas
Mario - Throwback
Diddy Kong - KillerJawz
Ganondorf - Xyro
Mr. Game and Watch - Th3 Composer, Omega
Captain Falcon - IsmaR
Wario - ZeroL
 

Throwback

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Location
Green Tooth Gorge
Mario MU

*What is the ratio?

60-40 Mario's favour

*How does samus win or do well?

Ideally samus has 2 good ranges here – just outside zair range, and just inside ftilt range. Outside zair range she can destroy any fireball approaches, and just inside ftilt range you will beat everything Mario has (as long as you don’t get too close). Mario will be trying to get to a close range where he can jab but not be hit by upB. Furthermore, a lot of his moves stale nicely, allowing him to keep pressure on you until around 80% or so. Therefore your focus in this MU is to get outside his jab range (you won’t get further than that unless you hit him away).

Samus’ handling of Mario’s fireball is probably the key to this MU. If samus can out-prioritise and punish the fireball, she will be very competitive. On the other hand, mario’s fireball creates all sorts of issues when samus is off the ledge or trying to land on stage. Samus’ zair will often force Mario high as he tries to fireball, so learn to punish with uair (vs full-hopped fbs) and zair (vs short-hopped fbs).

Mario’s obvious weakness is his upB recovery, but don’t expect to gimp a good Mario very often, his great 2nd jump will let him recover to the stage the majority of the time. When you do get him far enough away to gimp, simply ledge-hog when he needs to upB. If he cape stalls instead, you need to be quick enough to re-tether.

Samus ledge-guards Mario extremely well. Utilt will get repeated kills against those inexperienced in the MU, and after that a combination of MC, zair and general prediction makes it extremely difficult for anyone to get back. Mario’s easiest return to stage is double-jump to an airdodge, or cape to DJ to bair. Happily, MC & zair will stop this most of the time, and their fast cancels give you plenty of time to ftilt him back off stage if he air-dodges. If you can get Mario to use his upB to the stage, you have a great advantage. He suffers the lag from his upB no matter how he returns, so space and fsmash him off again.

Another strength of samus’ is her charge shot. ALWAYS charge your beam at the start of the match, and any time you get some space. When Mario knows you have a full CS, his fireball game is hurt badly (FCS goes through fb), and up close you will probably get lots of chances to punish his cape (which he has to predict). The aim is not to land the CS, but to alter his game. Stop his fireballs and make him predict with cape and the MU is much easier. Note that until the Mario respects the full CS, you should be shooting it as much as possible, preferably through fireballs.

*What to watch out for

Firstly, Mario is reasonably fast and doesn’t have much lag on his moves. If he gets in close he can easily put 50% on you with one chain. He also has great vertical spacing which can make it difficult to get back to the ground.

Second, Mario’s fireball is a fantastic frametrap. If you let Mario force you into shielding a fb, expect him to put the hurt on with frame-traps and fast aerial maneuverability. Always try to zair trade with his fireballs, you will come out ahead very quickly as his fireball stales. If he fireballs from standing you are safe to shield because he can’t follow up well. The best move for beating fb from below is uair, it never fails. From the side, use zair. Nair & fair can work but are unreliable.

Mario kills far, far better than samus. Usmash is quick and beats dair clean (and nair/uair as well). Fsmash is laggy but it stutter-steps well and has a small pull-back that makes it great for evading a move to get the kill. His other kill move is the cape, and should not be underestimated – it’s pretty much the only move in the game that kills at 0%. When you are recovering, Mario will throw fireballs to force you into position for a fair. Don’t underestimate the fair! It has very deceptive range, both vertically and horizontally, and is disjointed. It’s not very powerful, but any time you get over around 80% it will cause you headaches or simply kill. Air-dodge this move, uair will NOT beat it if the fair is timed correctly. When all else fails Mario can nair/uair/bthrow you for the kill at high %.

Mario is an excellent edge-guarder. Bair will beat any move samus can pull from the edge, including get-up attack (which really irks me). F-smash will kill you around 100% at the edge, maybe higher if you have perfect DI. Run-off bair makes life scary for the samus who doesn’t want to return to stage, and fireballs create guaranteed punishes for the samus trying to 2nd-jump AD onto stage. The key to returning here is pay attention to the range and height of Mario from the ledge. If he is close and shielding, you can DJ-fair to your heart’s content. If he is jumping around, tether the ledge and return with uair as he lands (at the right distance, this is completely safe). If he backs off, don’t get on - just shoot him with missiles or hit him with a DJ zair. It’s important to watch for Mario to run-off, because he can and will kill you at obscenely low percents (bair beats samus’ ubB, ALL THE TIME). If you pay attention though, this your chance to return to stage – and samus edge-guards Mario just as well in return.

Mario’s jab cancel deserves a special mention. If he gets close enough to land jabs (ie any time he hits your shield with an aerial that’s not dair), samus is in a very awkward position. Jabs eat your shield, you can’t hit with upB, and rolling is easy to punish. Sometimes you will land a grab or jab your way out of a cancel situation, but more often than not you will come out the loser (jab -> jab -> dsmash = 22%!). Avoid this situation at all costs by attacking mario’s approaches! If you do get caught, shield until you are out of range, or spot-dodge to jab/dilt/upB.

Mario’s other trouble move is the bair wall. It can take a long time to figure out how to beat this fast, disjointed move. The trick is to shield the first set, then adjust your spacing – dash away to RAR zair is very reliable, as is dash in to shield -> dtilt. Predicted retreating rising zair is also good. If Mario predicts a hit with bair at low % he will be trying to follow up, which will usually put him close enough for an upB OOS. Otherwise don’t use upB, it will miss and you will be punished.

Don’t rely on upB OOS in this MU. Nair and bair can both be easily spaced to hit your shield and avoid the upB. Furthermore, mario’s dair mixes up with these moves well, and if done rising Mario can use another aerial before landing. Basically don’t sit in your shield in this MU.

If Mario gets ahead on stocks, he takes a big advantage in the MU. Not only can he run away with fireballs instead of approaching, samus goes back to 0% which is when Mario is very, very strong. To get the kill, you will have to play aggressively and accept that sometimes you will get punished for it. Dashing into shield mixed with zairs to beat fireballs is the way to go, but in this situation fb/zair trades are in Mario’s favour. Be smart with zair and force Mario to the ledge where he can’t run away any more. If you get enough space, charge your CS and KO through a fireball (much easier on stages with platforms like BF).

*What stages to ban and CP(give reasons why)

Pick: FD, Lylat, Frigate, Delphino

FD gives you a great advantage, you can run away all day. Lylat is always good for samus and the moving edges can make things difficult for mario’s short upB. Frigate seems like it would be bad for samus but actually works really well. The dip in the center favours samus, and the stage change hurts Mario more than it hurts you. Mario doesn’t have much room to set up fireballs, and samus loves that most hits she lands will put Mario off-stage. Other usual suspects like delphino work well for samus.

Ban: Pictochat, Brinstar, Pirate Ship, Halberd

I really hate pictochat against Mario and always ban this stage, the edges are horrible for samus and the hazards tend to work in Mario’s favour since you are constantly running away.

Despite samus boards love for Brinstar, this stage does NOT suit samus in this MU. There isn’t enough space to maneuver and she can’t camp edges how she’d like. Mario is fast enough to get below her when she camps the side platforms, and has far better vertical spacing than us, which is what this stage comes down to.

Pirate ship I don’t like because of the slopes and the fact you are constantly running away means Mario will often be in the dip in the center of the ship, not you. The trebuchet thing blocks your movement as well.

I also feel halberd is strangely in mario’s favour. The floating transformation is horizontally very short and the platform in the middle makes it hard to MC. The flat stage seems pretty standard but again the platform in the middle can mess with MCs. The hazards seem to work against samus, perhaps because she takes time to set up any of her effective stuff. Finally, mario’s usmash, utilt and uair can all kill early here because of the low ceiling.


*Overall, what do you feel?

If you can maintain horizontal distance from Mario, samus walls him extremely effectively. Unfortunately at some point Mario is going to predict what you do and close the gap, swinging things heavily in his favour. Mario’s speed, his slight edge in taking stocks and his ability to take advantage from a stock lead make this a difficult MU for samus, but certainly winnable.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
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please put the article into the sections that are requested on the front page. i cannot add it(or ill just delete it) if its not done right.
 
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Nice going Throwback ^^, my Diddy MU should be up in a few days.

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link - Omega, Th3 Composer
Ice Climbers - ZeroL
Lucario - Karcist
Lucas
Mario - Throwback
Diddy Kong - KillerJawz
Ganondorf - Xyro
Mr. Game and Watch - Th3 Composer, Omega
Captain Falcon - IsmaR
Wario - ZeroL

Edit: Added Throwback's Mario MU writeup to the OP.
 
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Diddy Writeup.

Chances of winning:

KillerJawz: 35-65, Diddy's Favor
What does the opponent think:

How does Samus win or do well:

KillerJawz: Okay, this matchup is a very very tricky one. It requires the patience of a god, the mental stability of a guru and just the general skill of a top player. Diddy has very very destructive tools at his disposal, and to go into this MU like any other would be a FATAL error.

Diddy is a small, fast and nimble character. He has a decent air game, and a superb ground game, both of which, far outrank our own. Diddy will normally start the match by pulling two bananas, and quickly making his way across the stage with them, glide tossing appropriately to give himself enough space to counter any attempts you make to attack him. His bananas EAT charge shot, it's not even an exchange, we lose a fully charged charge shot. I know it's horrible, but all is not lost. When Diddy throws a banana at us to get us into a combo, grab, the banana, now, the playing field has evened up a bit. We have loads of tricks with this banana, we could glide toss it, throw it off stage, or my personal favourite, create a nice mixup. Glide toss forwards > Charge Shot is guaranteed if the banana lands on Diddy, this is a very common strategy you should find yourself using.

Make sure you ALWAYS have a charge shot handy, that glide toss combo is gold. A good Diddy will catch onto the combo, and eventually try to be more cautious with his Nanas, and this is where the damage will wrack up for him.

Now, for us to damage wrack effectivly on Diddy, we will need to keep the missiles flowing all the time, keep those homing AND super missiles flowing and Diddy will always be forced to approach, we outcamp him, even with the banana > CS and missiles problem. Zair is unaffected by the bananas, if anything, it helps us, since the hitbox lingers a bit longer. Zair Diddy whenever you can, it's our best option in this match up. Diddy has pretty average range all round, ABUSE this. Get those zairs and ftilts out. Out range him as much as possible and keep him out of your close zone, otherwise your just going to eat more and more damage.

When we have a banana, we also have the option of dropping the banana down onto Diddy once we are above him, this is pretty much a free Dsmash if you read the tech/roll/get up right, or any other follow up you can think of. The banana plays a vital role in this MU, even if you have no use for it, we can still zair with a banana in hand, so Diddy defiantly loses more tools then we do. One banana is bearable, two on the field is just suicide.

If for whatever reason Diddy goes into the air, zair him. He has no option against this in the air, and is really really hurt by it. Keep him in the air with uair and apply the pressure. Miss a uair string however, and Diddy can punish us for it. If you cannot punish Diddy in the air, predict his landing and set up a pivot grab, this can get Diddy right back into the air for another attempt to juggle him, his dair isn't very fast, so all he can do is airdodge or side B away, which isn't a smart option since we can follow up with zair.

Bombs actually play a little role in this matchup. Since they are timed bombs, Diddy's area of glide tossing is quite restricted. He has to play inside his shield while a bomb is on the field because it screws up his momentum and can sometimes cause him to drop his banana, don't overuse bombs however, the ending lag is quite punishable.

We can Upb OoS most of Diddy's moves excluding d and fsmash, so utilize this. When Diddy gets in, make sure he's spaced badly, then do an UpB OoS. If he is really applying pressure with smashes and general banana locks, you can always retreat to the edge. Diddy has NOTHING on us here. All he can do is drop down a banana, which if you time correct, shouldn't be a problem to you. You can get the percentage lead and run the clock if need be.

In order to kill Diddy, you will HAVE to remember what is stale and what isn't. Diddy is very hard to hit, especially with our terrible kill moves. Dtilt I've found is the best option since Diddy will more then likely attempt to rush you if you are patient enough, but this is really down to preference. Charge shot shouldn't be fresh, but if for some reason it is, banana glide toss > charge shot is still an option.
What should Samus look out for?

KillerJawz: He can glide toss in, dash attack, utilt, dtilt, dsmash, fsmash or whatever he wants, he has so many options and you will quite literally be getting 30% added onto your toll every time he lands a banana on you. He can hunt us down with these nanas and really put a hurting on us.

Diddy has a variety of options to shut us down, mainly bananas, but he also has his general zoning game. Diddy's dtilt has beautiful range, and really messes with us on the edge, it can set up for a free fair if it connects with us on the edge, ending our stocks really quickly, don't be fooled by the look of the move, it's range is quite decieving. Diddy's tilts are relatively safe on shield, so make sure you KNOW UpB will connect out of shield, otherwise we are getting juggled for a long while.

Diddy's throws are all decent. Fthrow and Bthrow are brilliant for getting us off stage or away from Diddy, and set him up in the perfect position to get the banana locks going again. He can lock us ACROSS FD WATCH OUT. He has a disgusting amount of ground options against us, and if we space incorrectly, we are loosing a very hefty amount of %.

Diddy's side B (Face ****) is an AMAZING move. It has grab armour frames, similar to that of Bowser's side B and will take us straight out of our bomb recovery, once Diddy breaks off of this move, we get sent down in a semi spike notion and Diddy rises upwards, this is one of his safest gimping tools and is pretty painful for us when we are bomb recovering, so be sure to watch out for this. Only bomb jump when Diddy is not in the correct position to gimp us. Please do note we can mash out of his side b, but he can end it prematurely, doing damage to us in the process, and still putting us in a gimpable position.

When Diddy is going for the kill, he will use one of the follow moves normally: Fsmash, Dsmash, Fair, Fthrow (at the edge). These don't sound to threatening, however, unlike Samus, Diddy actually has a very large variety of mindgames and kill set ups, a simple glide toss > trip > dsmash will end your stocks quickly if you don't DI properly. He can also use dair for a quick spike on us if we are not careful. Diddy's UpB also spikes at the very bottom, this can be pretty strong when we're planking, so look out for this. Diddy does have a generally hard time killing however, so when it comes down to killing, we need to play VERY defensively.
What stages should Samus counterpick/ban:

KillerJawz: Ban FD. He can lock us across it and this is far far more devasting then our spam against him, which with his glide tossing abilities and his general speed, he can easily get around.

Counterpick stages where bananas are harder for him to use. Brinstar is perfect for us here, Diddy doesn't like lingering hitboxes that much, so this stage is a good bet for us.

Battlefield is also a good one, but you have to play the platforms really wisely, otherwise you will get locked across BF just like with FD.





Added Diddy match up to the OP.
 
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