Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[Kinzer]

You can SDI out of his Bair...I know that for sure...I do it all the time (Bair out of Pika Bair is so satisfying ). Fair I'm not 100% sure of...given it's properties, I assume you can...though I've never done it before... *shrug*

What's his bair look like? I haven't fought a Pikachu that used that against me yet, and iirc I'm pretty sure it's not the twirly thing because that must be his nair or something, which I'm sure it has decent punishing landing lag.

 

[Kirk]

What's his bair look like? I haven't fought a Pikachu that used that against me yet, and iirc I'm pretty sure it's not the twirly thing because that must be his nair or something, which I'm sure it has decent punishing landing lag.

To the best of my descriptive abilities...

Pika's Bair is when he spins horizontally, multi hit, no electricity.

His Nair is when he does somersaults, single hit, no electricity.

 

[Kinzer]

Oh, well thx Kirk, so I had it backwards! I understand now.

Anyway now that I know what I'm dealing with, it's his bair that has more landing ending lag, I think if the rat lands during his nair as well that has landing ending lag which can also be punished, maybe a little bit less but it's still noticable.

 

[Ussi]

Fair you won't be usually SDIing out of so don't worry about it. Most good ones do FF fair > grab/tilt and not as good do FF Fair > dsmash so you're getting hit by one or two shots of fair.


Pikachu isn't that hard since you guys are pretty much each other's weakness (Speed/Projectile/Combos for you and range for him)

Pikachu should be always setting you up with tjolt not just spamming it. oh yea, if you get chain grabbed to the edge to the edge, DO NOT JUMP UNTIL ITS TO AVOID THE TJOLT!!! IF YOU JUMP INTO HIS TJOLT YOU'RE DEAD!

Pikachu chain grabs with ONLY fthrow against you till 60%. Try to jab inbetween for the ones who are slow. (Online you got a 80% chance of jabbing him due to input lag) Smart wifi pikachus then shield grab after you start jabbing.

Most pikachus will play defensively cause of the massive damage you do. If you fight an aggro pikachu, it'll be in your advantage easily.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

It thought pikachu had 2 chain grabs on Ike. How do you get out of the second one if only Fthrow is considered a real chain grab.

 

[YagamiLight]

It thought pikachu had 2 chain grabs on Ike. How do you get out of the second one if only Fthrow is considered a real chain grab.

I'm pretty sure you can airdodge the Dthrow CG, and I seem to remember the Forward Throw CG being hard to do on Ike. I'll search the Pikachu boards, in any case.

 

[Ussi]

oh its not hard to CG Ike, its only nerve wracking due to input lag that gives you a leeway to jab before we can grab you.

dthrow is not a CG on Ike (Only 4 characters get CG by it), just jump before landing. But dthrow to utilt works at low percents.

Pikachu wouldn't really QAC to you, if he loves to (and is predictable about it), do Usmash to hit him.

Pikachu is a lightweight sooo, utilt kills early, fair wrecks Pikachu.

Be careful though, Pikachu can do some nasty edgeguards like QA edge hog, QA through you when you try to Aether thus stunning you and screwing you up, and tjolting you. Thunder walls work well to. Tjolt can really prolong you while recovering if you keep hitting it during aether.


DO NOT PICK HALBERD!!!! The hazard part of the stage is impossible to come back to with aether against Pikachu. Tjolt will encircle the ledge and with multiple tjolts constantly circling it, you will never grab on it. Also low ceilings makes it easier on Pikachu for his thunder.

Corneria is a good stage for Pikachus well. Tjolt/thunder heaven.

Luigi's mansion seriously hingers Pikachu.

Spiking pikachu in the water won't always work since Pikachu can QA DEEPER into the water to avoid spikes.

BF is a great stage to CP against Pikachu, but smart Pikachus can utilize platforms to hit you from the other side with tjolt and to QAC onto, and thunder in between gaps to throw you off.

Yoshi's island does well as a neutral against Pikachu.

Lynat is great for Pikachu. Tilting helps tjolt, although it may screw around with CG, i never needed to CG an Ike with the combos i did anyways.

(utilt, utilt, utilt, uair, nair does like 40% anyways)

down smash provides a tech chase (For the smart people who SDI) otherwise try to shield half of dsmash than spot dodge the rest to punish effectively.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Adding to what Ussi said, Pikachu's speed, when in the right hands, can seriously mess with an ike. Pikachu's game has a LOT of mind-games. Maybe since ikes range is quite large with his fair, it can negate it. But pikachu has a very good projectile as all of you know, which can keep ike annoyed and full-hopping and DJing.

Thunder can seriously hinder ike's recovery, becuase ike's recovery is 1) mediocre and 2) very straightforward. You couldn't really wait the thunder out because then the pikachu will just edgehog with good timing and kill you anyway.

Do not side-step a lot against a pikachu, for D-smash will be coming your way. Yes it is DIable by holding up, but it can lead to a tech-chase or just being far away from pikachu so more T-jolts come your way.

Pikachu will be very cautious against ike, but being overly cautious usually leads to mistaked with rolling and sidesteps (or i'm just ********) so watch for the mis-timed sidesteps and rolls. A good ike can capitalize very very easily.

As for stages, i would say to CP Battlefield, for it is one of the worst pikachu vs ike levels (bad for pikachu obviously). Ban probably...Frigate orpheon. It is a very good pika level, and he can edgeguard quite well, and the first part can screw over ikes recovery BIG TIME. Hope i helped.

 

[Rykoshet]

<_< well the topic got deleted but I'd suggest thanks to the current uh... slew of players who went up with xyro (I lost 4, won 3. Most of the matches were down to the wire except my first and 4th loss) that samus would not be a bad idea for the next matchup to talk about.

 

[YagamiLight]

<_< well the topic got deleted but I'd suggest thanks to the current uh... slew of players who went up with xyro (I lost 4, won 3. Most of the matches were down to the wire except my first and 4th loss) that samus would not be a bad idea for the next matchup to talk about.

Yeah, those were some intense matches and I'm going to have to agree that due to Xyro I'll probably make Samus the next entry. I'll probably have the Pikachu thing done by tomorrow, hopefully.

 

[HeroMystic]

Wow, you lost too? That's pretty messed up... but it looks like you gave him a run for his money just like Kirk.

And yeah, you should make Samus the next entry. I'd give my advice about her since she's my secondary, but I'm sure you all have a pretty good knowledge on her now.

 

[•Col•]

<_< well the topic got deleted but I'd suggest thanks to the current uh... slew of players who went up with xyro (I lost 4, won 3. Most of the matches were down to the wire except my first and 4th loss) that samus would not be a bad idea for the next matchup to talk about.

Hey, cool... =P Good job....

Anyway, I dunno if we're even done discussing Pikachu still... And I think we should do Ike's hardest matchups first... Like Olimar or Falco.... o-o

EDIT: Fine, w/e... Discuss Samus... Since there are just SO many great Samus players out there at tourneys to fight against....

Lol, just kidding... Well, since we had quite a few of the players that have been contributing to this thread go up against one of the best Samus players out there, we should be able to get through it pretty quickly...

 

[Kinzer]

Yeah, those were some intense matches and I'm going to have to agree that due to Xyro I'll probably make Samus the next entry. I'll probably have the Pikachu thing done by tomorrow, hopefully.

And we will beg Xyro to help us with the discussion if it's the last thing we do, when all the people who post on the boards gets their butt handed to them by one person, that's when you know you have to act XD

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Nooooo make samus after oct 4th so I can fight him at hobo 10. This blows I'm like the only one who didn't get into these matches! **** YOU WALMART CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!

 

[•Col•]

Nooooo make samus after oct 4th so I can fight him at hobo 10. This blows I'm like the only one who didn't get into these matches! **** YOU WALMART CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!

I didn't get to fight him either....? D:

My Wii's still back at home with my brother.... I'm starting to go into Smash withdrawl.... Haven't played in over a month...

 

[Kinzer]

I didn't get to fight him either....? D:

My Wii's still back at home with my brother.... I'm starting to go into Smash withdrawl.... Haven't played in over a month...

That's why you resort to punching your wall.

 

[XACE-K]

Lol, just kidding... Well, since we had quite a few of the players that have been contributing to this thread go up against one of the best Samus players out there, we should be able to get through it pretty quickly...

Yep. I got ***** by Xyro.

Good times, good times.

That's why you resort to punching your wall.

You would punch a wall if you couldn't play Smash for a month? Either something's wrong with you or you really like Smash.

 

[Kinzer]

Nothing like some good ol' fashioned wall smashing when you are being reprived of Brawl.

 

[YagamiLight]

You would punch a wall if you couldn't play Smash for a month? Either something's wrong with you or you really like Smash.

Or both!

As for the write-up, the site was down, so I couldn't really get the information for it. But now that it's up again, I see no hindrance to doing the analysis ASAP.

 

[Kinzer]

As for the write-up, the site was down, so I couldn't really get the information for it. But now that it's up again, I see no hindrance to doing the analysis ASAP.

Epic.

10Iketierlistadvances.

 

[XACE-K]

Or both!

As for the write-up, the site was down, so I couldn't really get the information for it. But now that it's up again, I see no hindrance to doing the analysis ASAP.

Good, let's move on to whoever the next character is.

Spoiler

Samus

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

You might now get that much detail on samus you know. Kirk told me he wasn't in the position to judge the match up yet and I know I'm not either but its your call.

 

[Kirk]

Just because a person comes here and beats a lot of Ikes doesn't automatically give the next spot to Samus. I know an Bowser player who can probably do the same...he beats me a lot of the time too. Doesn't necessarily mean we should go ahead and start the Bowser matchup.

By all means, do what you wish...it's your thread. I won't have much input because I've only played that one good Samus for a few games...that doesn't give me enough to go on without going into too much speculation.

But that's just me.

 

[YagamiLight]

In theory, you guys are probably right. Great players of characters exist, and just because they beat you in a match doesn't mean the character deserves top priority. We'll get to Samus eventually.

But!

By all means, do what you wish...it's your thread.

This thread would be rather weak without the input of the entire board, and so I think of it as a group thread more so than a single person's match-up guide.

 

[Kinzer]

I don't really care either, I am in for any character, (particularly Samus just because I don't know where else to read information.) but any character would be fine just as long as something gets done.

 

[•Col•]

Hmm, I dunno....

Spoiler

FALCO OR OLIMAR!!!!

I mean, it doesn't really matter....

Spoiler

FALCO OR OLIMAR!!!!

I don't think we have to do Ike's worst matchups first...

Spoiler

FALCO OR OLIMAR!!!!

Plus, it's not like there's anyone else out there that gives Ike a hard time...

Spoiler

FALCO OR OLIMAR!!!!

So yeah, whoever is fine...

Spoiler

FALCO OR OLIMAR!!!!

 

[XACE-K]

Hmm, I dunno....

Spoiler

IKE!!!!

I mean, it doesn't really matter....

Spoiler

IKE!!!!

I don't think we have to do Ike's worst matchups first...

Spoiler

IKE!!!!

Plus, it's not like there's anyone else out there that gives Ike a hard time...

Spoiler

IKE !!!!

So yeah, whoever is fine...

Spoiler

IKE!!!!

Fix'd.

But really, pick whoever you want.

 

[Hive]

xyro is a great* samus... but I think some of the matchup is that he has a lot more experience against Ike mains then you guys have against samus mains...

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

anyone feel like doing falco or olimar next?

 

[YagamiLight]

I'm getting these clairvoyant vibrations from the air. They say "Falco or Olimar, your destiny depends on it." As such, due to the possibility of evil spirits haunting my topic, I'm going to go find a good Falco or Olimar picture.

On a side note, the Pikachu write-up is almost done, it'll be up rather shortly.

 

[Kinzer]

peer pressure at its best.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4s7LJy__iQ

despite all that we should do fox or wolf next.

 

[Kinzer]

Yeah good thing Ike knows betetr than to fall for mindgames, he has his own.

 

[HeroMystic]

xyro is a great* samus... but I think some of the matchup is that he has a lot more experience against Ike mains then you guys have against samus mains...

Pretty much. I doubt any Ike main here has fought plenty of dedicated Samus mains compared to Ike.

EDIT: So Falco's next? Well, great. I haven't got much experience with him besides his chain grab and laser spam. <_<

 

[Kinzer]

Oh, Falco Lombardi a.k.a the Pizzacake guy, this out to be interesting.

 

[•Col•]

Pretty much. I doubt any Ike main here has fought plenty of dedicated Samus mains compared to Ike.

EDIT: So Falco's next? Well, great. I haven't got much experience with him besides his chain grab and laser spam. <_<

You forgot about his dair spike.

xD

 

[Kinzer]

You know something my gut tells me that this might be a moreorless even matchup, maybe with Falco at a slight advantage, We'll have to see though, I could be wrong.

 

[•Col•]

You know somethign my gut tells me that this might be a moreorless even matchup, maybe with Falco at a slight advantage, We'll have to see though, I could be wrong.

Not trying to be rude or anything, but do you have any experience with this matchup? o-o Chaingrab is a pain... Usually ends in a dair spike... Reflector can be annoying... He has that dash attack into Usmash thing (Gattling combo?)... dsmash can send you mostly horizontal...

Also, when you're trying to recover... He can gimp you with his blaster at times... Trying to drop down and Aether might not always be a good idea in this matchup... If you get sent up high, probably just be better to use QD (Oh joy)... x_X

Meh... I'll post more later...

 

[Kinzer]

Not trying to be rude or anything, but do you have any experience with this matchup? o-o Chaingrab is a pain... Usually ends in a dair spike... Reflector can be annoying... He has that dash attack into Usmash thing (Gattling combo?)... dsmash can send you mostly horizontal...

Also, when you're trying to recover... He can gimp you with his blaster at times... Trying to drop down and Aether might not always be a good idea in this matchup... If you get sent up high, probably just be better to use QD (Oh joy)... x_X

Meh... I'll post more later...

Yeah but some reason playing Falco vs Ike, he might not prefer the air after all, if you think about it, Falco really only has one good recovery, and that's his Phantasm. (Fire Bird for when you need vertical recovery distance other it's way too short for any use.) If they do anything but ledgespot it it is so punishable it isn't funny.

I am well aware that lazers can gimp Ike, but that is why all recovery in this match is done from below and you save that double jump for a rainy day. He can't chaingrab you if you hang in the air right? This is probably where Ike is going to want to stay in the air more than any other match-up he would have.

Reflector is annoying but if it misses has noticable ending lag which is somewhat short but hey this is Smash, you can and should make the best of that time. As for the dash-Usmash combo and the Dsmash, the only way I think to counter this is to try and get counter off ahead of time before they do this.

Like I said, Falco owns the ground while Ike is the real aerial huntereagle in this matchup.

 

[•Col•]

Yeah but some reason playing Falco vs Ike, he might not prefer the air after all, if you think about it, Falco really only has one good recovery, and that's his Phantasm. (Fire Bird for when you need vertical recovery distance other it's way too short for any use.) If they do anything but ledgespot it it is so punishable it isn't funny.

I am well aware that lazers can gimp Ike, but that is why all recovery in this match is done from below and you save that double jump for a rainy day. He can't chaingrab you if you hang in the air right? This is probably where Ike is going to want to stay in the air more than any other match-up he would have.

Reflector is annoying but if it misses has noticable ending lag which is somewhat short but hey this is Smash, you can and should make the best of that time. As for the dash-Usmash combo and the Dsmash, the only way I think to counter this is to try and get counter off ahead of time before they do this.

Like I said, Falco owns the ground while Ike is the real aerial huntereagle in this matchup.

The only problem being that Ike has a lot of lag on his aerials, so he can't stay in the air for very long.... D: