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Impa, the Enigmatic Sheikah, Sage of Shadow

PsychoIncarnate

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Since Sheik was in the recently released Scribblenaughts game, I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that the identity of sheik has become a staple of the character "Zelda".

Besides, you have to realize that in the next Zelda game, impa could very well be fat or old again and the smash impa would be outdated, and probably replaced with sheik again in Smash 5 (Or have a character that makes more sense)

I really think the Zelda characters in smash SHOULDN'T be incarnations from any specific game, but rather separate incarnations so they needn't worry about current canon
 

Diddy Kong

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Lol Sheik's cut will result in MORE backlash than Mewtwo's removal now? :rolleyes: We all know just about everyone would've traded Sheik's spot in Brawl for Mewtwo, easily.

Misconception clearly runs high about Sheik's Brawl appearance though, as Sheik only had a Twilight Princess design cause she was supposed to be IN Twilight Princess, but got scrapped. Brawl's development began before TP's release, so likely Sheik was then still considered relevant. Why else would Sakurai even state that on the Dojo?

Besides, now we finally have a VIABLE Sheik replacement. Tbh, when I first saw Zero Suit Samus, I thought she was gonna be Sheik's replacement (they did end up being similar though in playstyles). Was dissapointed that she wasn't in the end.

Also, conservative 'anti-cut' people like to argue that Zelda / Sheik shouldn't be changed, cause they are like that since two games. Ever forgot the fact that SAMUS, one of the original 8 was changed significantly in Brawl with the addition of Zero Suit Samus? No? Bet cause you like to forget.

Sheik should be cut, Impa should be in. If y'all want an Ocarina of Time based character go support Ganondorf with a OoT inspired moveset instead. Which is far more iconic than having that one character playable that only thought you songs with a generic moveset. :rolleyes:

Impa 4 Smash!

:phone:
 
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Impa for Skyward Sword Zelda (Zelda's main costume) and Sheik for Ocarina of Time 3D Zelda (Alt Costume)

Make the Sheik move-set a little more Impa oriented and it would still work for her.

Then Ghirahim takes the fifth spot.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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When the next zelda game comes out those characters will be outdated and the SAME problems you have with sheik returning again will happen for the SS characters.

This is the reason why Link shouldn't adapt to the next game every generation of smash. Because it's characters become irrelevant.

What happens when the next Impa is fat? We change Impa added from 4 to 5, but use the fat design? I don't think that works.

Just keep sheik. Other media than smash already uses sheik as a side to zelda, regardless if sheik has made a recent zelda appearance.
 

Diddy Kong

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The next Zelda is probably gonna be designed after Skyward Sword, as read here: http://wiiudaily.com/2012/09/wii-u-zelda-game-coming-2014/ . So it's highly probable we'll get characters from Zelda in a Skyward Sword-like design. Smash has always followed that sort of trend with the Zelda characters, and why should they SUDDENLY stop this? Just to make one stupid one-off character fit in. :smirk:

I'm only for a Sheik constume if at least Link gets a OoT-like design as well. As well as a Wind Waker-styled alternate costume for Ganondorf to, so all Zelda characters have a 'realistic' and a 'Toon' look, so to say. Toon Link will probably cease to excist cause of this, but if he comes back he could have a Young Link-costume to.

Ghirahim could be added to, for all I care. Would make a nice rivallity with Impa, as he wasn't exactly fond of her as seen in Skyward Sword. And it'd be kinda similar to what relationship Sheik and Ganondorf had in OoT, and then finally being able to face of in Melee.

For those who say Impa is 'unimportant', cause she's 'not Zelda', think again! Impa is the actual Goddess Hylia's personal chosen warrior, and protector of her human / mortal form, Zelda. That's some serious business that makes all the other Impas in history cry in shame. Her name also actually means something, same with Link and Zelda's. They are thusfar the only real characters who's name have any meaning, read about it here: http://mynintendonews.com/2011/12/23/hyrule-historia-reveals-origin-of-link-impa-and-zeldas-name/ .

Also what is funny is that originally, Impa was also holder of one of the Triforce Pieces - namely, the Triforce of Power- instead of Ganondorf. http://www.glitterberri.com/hyrule-historia/page-2/
Impa’s name came from the verb “to impart.” – Impa, Link and Zelda were the original “three guardians of the Triforce.” The Triforce relationship nowadays is between Link, Zelda and Ganon, but that was established in Ocarina of Time; the first Ganon was a villain looking for the Triforce.


So yeah, Impa was always important in Zelda, but Skyward Sword especially finally gave her that recognision she needed. A strong revival for a character that seemed forgotten, with a good redesign and all. It's easy to argue she is about to become a staple to the series, something Sheik will never become.

Also, if she returns she'll probably be a warrior again, since she only appeared as an old woman in the series when she was off-screen, aka not in the game. Impa as she appeared in-game always was a warrior with her first role being in OoT, then her fat-but-not-to-be-messed-with-role in the Oracle games, and then as the chosen warrior of the Goddess in Skyward Sword.

Anyways, there's plenty of reasons to chose her above Sheik. And as Sakurai even wanted to replace NESS for Lucas aka 'Mother 3 boy' in Melee already, who's to say he doesn't care about relevance?
 

PsychoIncarnate

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So we should continue the trend of matching the current game so we can add stupid one-off characters? Instead of abandoning that horrible idea so we don't have to keep stupid one-off characters?

Either way, it's going to leave the character selection of Smash 4 obsolete a couple years after it comes out
 

Diddy Kong

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I'm actually not for Ghirahim's inclusion, but I wouldn't care if he got in. There's a big difference between that. Impa is actually not a one-off either way so. :smirk:
 

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When I am visiting NeoGAF, I see this forum member named "Diddy Kong" who is always saying that Impa replacing Sheik is a bad idea... the complete opposite of what "Diddy Kong" in SmashBoards says. Bipolar much? :awesome:
 

PSIguy89

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As a long time fan of the Zelda series (and smash ofcourse) i am just going to voice my opinion and say that I would much rather have Impa in over Sheik. As a character in OoT i never gave a crap about Sheik lol when he/she was in melee i was kinda like "whatever" and when he/she was in brawl again i was like "=/" so yeah heres to Impa in the next smash!
 

Diddy Kong

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When I am visiting NeoGAF, I see this forum member named "Diddy Kong" who is always saying that Impa replacing Sheik is a bad idea... the complete opposite of what "Diddy Kong" in SmashBoards says. Bipolar much? :awesome:
I seem to be blessed with an extremely original username. Alas, I'm the real Diddy Kong. :diddy: We all knew that didn't we?

Impa replacing Sheik is the best idea ever. At least, as far as replacing characters go.
 

HylianHeroBigBoss

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As a long time fan of the Zelda series (and smash ofcourse) i am just going to voice my opinion and say that I would much rather have Impa in over Sheik. As a character in OoT i never gave a crap about Sheik lol when he/she was in melee i was kinda like "whatever" and when he/she was in brawl again i was like "=/" so yeah heres to Impa in the next smash!
Im with you on that one, I just dont really care about sheik either way since she has had no other impact on the series since OOT which is long past its prime as far as where priority should go. Impa is easily the most deserving zelda rep on deck, and i sure hope sakurai recognizes that instead of just keeping with tradition for traditions sake, we have enough of that with ganondorfs sad moveset.
 

Diddy Kong

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Exactly! Always found the idea kind of insulting that Sheik could have a totally unique style, yet Ganondorf was innitially added as a clone! I see no logic in that, and Ganondorf was way more requested than Zelda / Sheik and Young Link.

But yeah, glad he could make it in the end... Still, very dissapointed with his moveset thus far (especially Brawl's for obvious reasons). Hopefully Sm4sh will fix this.

Sheik has indeed no future relevance on the series besides her one-off role in Ocarina of Time. She might've been planned for Twilight Princess, but like all Sheikah characters she got scrapped. The next major console Zelda had Impa instead of Sheik, and she was the sole Sheikah in the game. Appearing in a double role even.

Impa has made a significant relevance boost through this role, and is sort of 'revived' with this appearance as a longlasting Zelda character. Plus, she is portraited as a strong warrior, with unique fighting abilities and a figure to balance Sheik's moveset out.

If she serves as a solo Sheik character, she already could be well received, through the fan's knowlegde of the Sheik persona in previous games. But she doesn't even need to have Sheik's complete moveset anyway. Impa has enough moves worthy of her own.

The Barrier for example:



Which could work as a new Side B. Blocking attacks for a period of time, and is a 'buidling move' much as Wario Waft. It needs time to recharge and cannot be used so much. But still an useful technique, and still not used in Smash yet. Thus unique.

And she als has a Magic Ball / Bomb kind of attack (aka Rasengan clone as GoldenY calls it) as seen here:

(Note she drops the ball instead of throwing it as an attack, but she still has acces to it as an ability. And it's strong enough to close the Gate of Time- hence I like to think of this attack working as a Timer item, but weaker. And it would do damage besides the slight slowdown)

So that would already give her two attacks unique from Sheik. Also a plus is Impa could have a Down B attack, which Sheik would never be able to have normally. I thought Deku Nut would be a nice additional attack. As it's iconic to her appearance in Ocarina of Time, and even Sheik did this trick. So it's a must-have for a Sheikah character in Smash I feel. Wether it's Impa or Sheik.

The attack would benefit the character for it's stunning effect. And in Impa's case, that coupled with her Magic Ball would make Impa quite a more defensive character. She wouldn't need the extra strenght buff from Sheik's Brawl moveset, plus her longer legs would add in range.

Sheik herself with her current moveset would need to have itself restored to Melee's Sheik to regain usefulness, but that character was far better than most. So let's not go that route again. It's a good thing Fox and Sheik where nerfed, but the extent of Sheik's moveset nerfs where more apperant as seen by the Brawl community. I think balance is harder for very fast character as Sheik, cause well, it's either overwhelming or underwhelming. And for balance issues and reasons to believe Smash (unfortunately) will be based more on Brawl than Melee, I feel a revamp is needed for Sheik's moveset. And Impa seems as the perfect sollution.

Also, Impa could have the Chain from Sheik as a grabbing attack. Think that also would be awesome.
 

Mirron

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Chain as a grab would be nice, though would be better (if just as a reference) if it was the Skyward Sword Whip instead.

Anyways, I have, and will consistently, wish for Impa in over Sheik. For several reasons, so I guess I'll just start listing them.

1. First and foremost, I really, truly don't enjoy combo characters. Having tried the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon split up in Project M, I can safely say I enjoy them far more so than together, as I prefer to just stay as one character instead of switching around. Having tried Samus and Zero Suit Samus, both play immensely differently, but neither of them are bad, so again it'd be nice to be able to use both of them with ease, and not have them switch at the use of a Final Smash. And then Zelda, one of my mains, would be far better off with a different Down-B. While some switch between the two, most of the time it's a risky move to use in the middle of a battle (aside from an opponent recovering, or when reviving from a life, or what not) that serves very little purpose. I don't doubt that it could be done, but I would hate to see Zelda be more reliant on Sheik in order to make it workable, since such a method is really, really bad. Both of them should be equally viable characters, and if they are there isn't much point in keeping them as a joint character.

2. Sheik is not recent. At all. In all likelihood, we're not ever going to see Sheik again. It was one Zelda, in one game. Zelda's done transformations before, but that doesn't mean each and every Zelda should be able to turn into Sheik. By the same logic each and every Zelda should be able to turn into Tetra, and a Pokemon Trainer Zelda feels like an immensely silly and weird idea. Sheik is OoT Zelda, not Skyward Sword Zelda, Oracle Zelda, or any other Zelda. And while Zelda may take her spells and such from OoT, they're mostly generic spells that share a name and don't function the same as it is. She could and should replace her Down-B with something more helpful and important.

3. And on that note, Impa is far, far more important to the series than Sheik is. Again, Sheik appears all of one time. Impa appears several times throughout the series. Yes, in far different roles than the core three, but that doesn't change the fact that she reappears. She's a part of Zelda history. Not a footnote like Sheik, but a recurring and at times major figure in the games she appears in. With Skyward Sword further solidifying her place in Zelda I'm sure we'll see her more. And keeping Impa and updating her design to the next Zelda makes far more sense than doing the same for Sheik precisely because of that. At least if they update Impa's design yet keep a similar model they're doing it for someone that is important to Zelda's overall history instead of just OoT's.
 

Diddy Kong

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Agreed on all fronts man. That's a well written analysis about Impa and Sheik.

:phone:
 

Speculator

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I have to say, Impa replacing Sheik is pretty much the last thing I could possibly want. I don't like this idea that roster slots should be 'updated' just to fit whatever is most recent. Some people accept it as an inevitability, but in truth it's only ever happened once when Mewtwo was replaced with Lucario. That isn't much to go on - and certainly not enough to start assuming outlandish things like a Pikmin 3 protagonist replacing Olimar or Impa replacing Sheik. Personally I have serious doubt the Zelda characters will appear in their Skyward Sword designs at all.
 

Diddy Kong

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So in your opinion we should've had a Twilight Princess designed Young Link instead of Toon Link? Cause that was the only true roster update, and an universally agreed upon one. Only people that complain about Toon Link are the ones who disregard everyone and everything as 'clone'.

Ike was also favored in before Roy for your information. So it's not only Mewtwo and Lucario. Newer characters DO take priority in some cases, and I feel the Zelda roster especially could use some freshness.

Impa replacing Sheik isn't far so outlandish, cause ths exact thing has already happened in Zelda. ;) Sheik was planned to appear in Twilight Princess, yet got scrapped. Next major console release: Impa appears. No Sheik beta designs earlier, so not even considered at all.

It's safe to say Sheik will NEVER return in a Zelda game again. And that holds her back a lot as a relevant character in Zelda overall. And it's not that her one role in OoT was anything special at all. Zelda needs to move AWAY from OoT already. And Skyward Sword did just that.

Also, why not use the Skyward Sword models? They always style the Zelda characters after the most recent console releases. Just look at Melee, and how they still use the Ocarina of Time characters, but graphically updated. I expect the exact same from Skyward Sword characters in Sm4sh.

Besides this, Impa has far better moveset potential than Sheik ever had. So this'd be the best sort of update possible imo.

:phone:
 
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So we should continue the trend of matching the current game so we can add stupid one-off characters? Instead of abandoning that horrible idea so we don't have to keep stupid one-off characters?

Either way, it's going to leave the character selection of Smash 4 obsolete a couple years after it comes out
It has happened in each Smash game and it works

So the likes of Ghirahim and Impa MAKE SENSE :awesome:
 

Diddy Kong

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Impa moreso than Ghirahim though. Yet, I wouldn't even be opposed to having him in. He could be fun.

:phone:
 

Diddy Kong

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Ike being out prioritised for Roy made some sence to I felt. Ike's overall more popular than Roy, has his unique moveset, and is from a game released internationally. So yes, for a 2 char FE roster I'd DEFINITELY pick Ike over Roy. Mewtwo's removal was just stupid...

Impa can stay in Smash till Sheik ever makes a comeback I say. Which likely means: never. :rolleyes:

:phone:
 
D

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At the same time, you should just count your blessings Impa came back in the first place.

Considering that Impa only appears within the Decline Timeline after OoT, and not in the Child or Adult Timelines.....
And all those times, it was either Fat Impa or Old Impa.....

Things are not looking too good for a younger Impa for you to jack off on to return. :smirk:
So what happens then? Does she get cut in the next Smash (if by the off chance, your little fantasy comes true for Smash 4) because she's irrelevant? Or does she become Fat or Old if THAT style returns because it'd be the latest appearance (which is so important :rolleyes:)?

If you say no to either, you're biased and hypocritical. Answer wisely. :smirk:
 

Diddy Kong

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I do, but I only thought of the idea because of that revival.

Her in game roles have mostly been warrior based though. As well as her most notable ones: OoT and SS.

If she's Old Impa who can still kick *** by a serious margain: I'd be in for it! Oldies can kick serious ***.

Also, don't have to jack off. :smirk: But that's besides the point I guess. Keep talking **** btw. I love it. :)

:phone:
 
D

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Her in-game roles (as in, not counting Zelda 1 or 2 due to being manual only) as a warrior and as a fat nursemaid have been equal. :troll:
 

Diddy Kong

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Oracle Zelda games are counted as one game mostly.

:phone:
 

Diddy Kong

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Still. It shouldn't count Fat Impa as two appearances.

:phone:
 

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At least Impa still shows up, even if it's in the Decline timeline. Sheik doesn't even show up in the other timelines.

:phone:
 

Diddy Kong

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Does that make Fat Impa better than Sheik overall?

Probably.

:phone:
 

Arcadenik

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Probably. In fact, one of the concept artwork for Skyward Sword had Fat Impa.

:phone:
 

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Making exceptions to help your cause, eh?
Given the nature of the Oracle games, it's safe to assume that even if the two Impas were from separate timelines, said Impa would have been, for all plot purposes, the one in the same Impa.
 

Diddy Kong

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Skyward Sword Impa can even re-appear easily cause of her time travelling in the first place...

:phone:
 

HylianHeroBigBoss

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Does she get cut in the next Smash (if by the off chance, your little fantasy comes true for Smash 4) because she's irrelevant?
I doubt very much that she wouldnt make the cut due to them worrying about the next game, it would be ridiculous to only choose someone based on what could be viable for the next big game after. If she was in and became popular the zelda team might take notice to make her a more recurring character.
 

Mirron

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I would say no to cutting Impa, and just updating her look. The simple fact is that (as things stand now, the possibility of a new Zelda game contradicting things is possible if slim with Skyward Sword as it is) Impa is the one who is more likely to return, and is more likely to have continued importance to the series, even if she doesn't appear as much as the main three. Sheik isn't. That's why I'm in favor of that.

Mewtwo wasn't cut in place of Lucario, and I'm ultimately against cuts of movesets. If someone can come along and inherit someone's moveset and be more important to the series they represent (such as, say, Blood Falcon (if just for the slightly more direct clone) taking Ganondorf's old moveset and Ganondorf getting a new one). Sheik's moveset would be retained. There would even be a Sheik costume (ideally). The only major difference would be a new Down-B and Final Smash (though other changes could be done). I'm not against Sheik appearing at all, I just think Impa deserves priority in terms of who appears first on the select screen.
 

Diddy Kong

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I doubt very much that she wouldnt make the cut due to them worrying about the next game, it would be ridiculous to only choose someone based on what could be viable for the next big game after. If she was in and became popular the zelda team might take notice to make her a more recurring character.
They didn't worry about that for mostly all Zelda characters in Melee. Why should it stop Impa now?

Also, if say, Agnahim returns to the series, and becomes Ganon's 'human form' instead of a Ganondorf maybe Ganondorf could be replaced to one day. Would only consider this after two major appearances though. As Ganondorf is quite a relevant character alltogheter in Zelda.

But Zelda characters besides Link and Zelda are rarely reoccuring. Only Impa was mentoined with Link and Zelda to in Hyrule Hystorica with what the names meant. Impa literally meant 'to impart'. While Link's name comes from the innitiative to 'link' him to the player.

I think her revival in Skyward Sword means we're gonna see more of her. So that's also reason I want her in more than Sheik.

:phone:
 

Chaotix27

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They didn't worry about that for mostly all Zelda characters in Melee. Why should it stop Impa now?

Also, if say, Agnahim returns to the series, and becomes Ganon's 'human form' instead of a Ganondorf maybe Ganondorf could be replaced to one day. Would only consider this after two major appearances though. As Ganondorf is quite a relevant character alltogheter in Zelda.

But Zelda characters besides Link and Zelda are rarely reoccuring. Only Impa was mentoined with Link and Zelda to in Hyrule Hystorica with what the names meant. Impa literally meant 'to impart'. While Link's name comes from the innitiative to 'link' him to the player.

I think her revival in Skyward Sword means we're gonna see more of her. So that's also reason I want her in more than Sheik.

:phone:
Well, on the subject of Ganondorf, it's entirely possible he could get replaced with

Demise.

Same dude, just a different look and a different name, updated to fit the newest Zelda. Possibly even bigger/heavier/more powerful.

I deem that somewhat less likely than Impa replacing Sheik, which I think is a near-certainty.

At the very least the G-man will get a nice alt-costume.
 

Diddy Kong

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Ganondorf coud have a Demise alternative yeah. But I think Demise would at least have to appear a second time to be viable as an own character. Ganondorf most likely would return before him. But if Demise would be possible, I'd have him. He'd have a great moveset for sure.

I see the chances very likely as well that Sheik gets booted for Impa. But most disagree about that here. It's weird, but just everyone hates the idea.

:phone:
 

Chaotix27

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The way I see it Demise IS Ganondorf, so it's not even really like he's a replacement. They're both just different incarnations of the same character, like the Links and the Zeldas. (Or, more accurately, Ganon/Ganondorf is a reincarnation of Demise)

The only reason I can think of why it might not happen is because Ganondorf is much more iconic as a character. I can definitely think of people who know Link and Zelda and Ganondorf but would see the name Demise and say, "who is this guy?" But slap the name Ganondorf on a picture of Demise and he becomes instantly recognizable again.
 
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