Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I meant a non uber, and i thought quaza's only lasted while he was in battle. (But i never play ubers so i could be wrong)

Yea speed is kinda what i suspected since base 100 is no longer the gold standard!

 

[UltiMario]

Yeah it only lasts while he's in battle. Some random crap Pokemon have an identical ability, cloud nine.

 

[choknater]

permanently removing weather as an ability wouldn't make sense anyway lol. when you look at kyogre and groudon, you find that their very existence and identity as pokemon are defined by the weather. politoed and ninetails are only afterthoughts. rayquaza was made to be their equalizer and he still is... or he tries to be, lol.

they should've given dragonair air lock

but now that i think of it

i want to try eviolite marvel scale dragonair... LOL

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Why wouldn't a poke who can permanently remove weather not make sense? Just b/c of kyogre and groudon? B/c i would say another legendary or sudo legend in the next gen could easily make sense, plus it would be a good way to weaken weather which at this point imo over centralises the metagame.

At the very least they could give could 9 to a good poke.

 

[Wave⁂]

Rest Shed Skin is probably better

 

[choknater]

im not talking about the metagame of competitive pokemon, im talking about pokemon as a whole, and the pokemon world. there are many things that don't make sense already, i know, but i'm thinking like... what kind of pokemon can go out into the battlefield, and then leave, and then kyogre comes in and it DOESN'T start raining?

it would really ruin the identity of kyogre and groudon as kings of weather. rayquaza is the closest thing to what you're suggesting

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Ah well i explained it poorly (its my fault i was thinking about explaining better but got lazy on my phone). What i mean is that when this poke leaves the battlefield weather will continue to be gone, but once a new weather poke comes in weather would start again. I know i made it sound like perma no weather but i meant it the same way weather starters have perma weather until another weather comes in.

 

[choknater]

oh haha well yeah that's how rayquaza works then

edit: oh wait nvm. does he just negate the weather effects but not remove it?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I dont play ubers so i could be wrong, but in am pretty sure he just negates weather.

On an unrelated note, what do you guys consider the new gold standard for speed (assuming base 100 was the gold standard in 4th gen). I am going to throw out numbers base 101, base 102, base 108, or base 110.

My pick is ether 108 or 110 b/c of the threats they tie or beat compared to the amount of ou pokes that out speed these pokes.

Edit: i am bored (no power at home not much to do at my sisters) and one of the things i have been doing to pass the time is looking up poke stuff

 

[UltiMario]

108, easily.

 

[Enzo]

SubPetaya Empoleon doesn't work anymore.

Spore/Low Sweep/Bullet Seed/Mach Punch is the best set. SD is a waste of a moveslot- loom can't sweep.

10wuts.

sure if your opponenet has a dnite and you dont even have rocks up you will have trouble sweeping.

Thing is loom doesnt sweep on his own, you count on residual damage over time/teammates to wear **** down until you can go for mach punch sweeps

Works for me anyways.

 

[mood4food77]

Spore is the only reason loom is OU.

You're using loom wrong, m4f. So, so wrong.

use it similarly to a scizor, mach punch the **** out of everything, go away when you can't kill it

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

not sure if i mentioned but last i played while testing thund-T i was also messing around with some other pokes. So I tried out sheer force conk seeing how he got the elemental punches. and after some trial and error, i ended up giving him two element punches (dont remember which two but i think it was ice and fire) and i also gave him mach punch and hammer arm (hammer arm for no good reason, like i said i was messing around) still it was oddly good and I feel kinda took down a decent amount of switch ins since people were expecting one of his common guts set.

also did Iron fist ever come out for him yet? i dont recall

 

[UltiMario]

use it similarly to a scizor, mach punch the **** out of everything, go away when you can't kill it

Scizor only can make that work because he has U-Turn and does 30-60% to **** when he "goes away"

 

[mood4food77]

you lose out on u-turn for a better priority move

it works great, it's really dumb how well it works

he also gets low sweep, which can allow you to outrun some pokes after the switch-in and you usually 2HKO everything anyways

 

[UltiMario]

With Mach Punch being resisted by Flying and having an immunity, the bump up from Bullet Punch isn't that great to be locked into.

It's not worth being frailer, having worse defensive typing, and overall being a worse band user for... Mach Punch.

Breloom is OU because Spore. It would be UU with 100% certainty without it.

Use one of the best moves in the entire game that has all of like 3 usable Pokemon that don't lose to said move.

Choice Band Loom is a waste of a Team slot.

 

[kirbyraeg]

best loom set is obv bulky sub+bu+focus punch+spore

spore, subpunch, bulk up on weak things. poison heal keeps this thing going for a while once it gets started.

 

[UltiMario]

Dat Gengar.

Or still Espeon and Xatu I guess

 

[chimpact]

thats not the best set by any means. bulk up drain punch seed bomb is much better because drain punch gives you health along with poison heal. you only have one attacking move and that only works behind a sub and it has a plethora of resistances. you're not going to be able to get enough boosts to be able to freely set up substitutes. theres no way you will be able to get away with that in this offensive metagame.

besides the best set imo is low sweep / spore / bullet seed / mach punch @ life orb. fighting gem with sd mach bullet seed (rock tomb / spore ) is a close second.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

So i tried gravity out and imo its awful. So instead i have gone back to using the real/common weathers and i made a sun team which so far seems pretty good

 

[choknater]

I think Gravity (and Wonder Room, for that matter) is a tool that can be used to take advantage of the moment. If a poke's moveset can benefit from it, then it could be used as a short term strategy to gain an advantage. I don't think it's powerful enough, though, to base an entire team around the move.

Trick Room, on the other hand, IS powerful enough. There's a big difference.

Like Tailwind, I think I could see it being stronger in double battles where much more can happen in a single turn. However it's probably not nearly as good as Tailwind lol.

 

[UltiMario]

There as no such things as Gravity teams

there is just Gravity Lando

 

[choknater]

 

[UltiMario]

Why chok

why

 

[kirbyraeg]

dat grin

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

@choke, i have used trick room teams b4 and i know they work, but this time i wanted to try gravity b/c it sounded cool. Sadly is failed, failed hard. Part of me wanted to make a trick room/gravity team but i feel the moves dont last long enough for it to ever work

 

[choknater]

haha that's what i'm saying though

gravity can be a good move when used in the moment, in the right situation... but i don't think a whole team can be built around a gravity theme.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

So atm i am under the impression that RU is way more fun then ou. I havent played nu or uu but i wouldn't be surprised if i also find those to be more fun as well

 

[kirbyraeg]

i think gravity could work in ru with ferroseed tossing up gravity, leech seed, and spikes

alternatively, gravity starmie is one of the most versatile offensive sweepers in the entire OU metagame and the extra power on its coverage moves lets it clean out teams after residual damage. similar thoughts about gravity lando, though it swaps versatility for just hammering **** with earthquake, and they both cover their weaknesses pretty well...just a thought



in ou things get too strong too quickly for full gravity teams to be viable, but lower tier gravity teams could be very strong if they could simultaneously spinblock and prevent setup. i'm going to try ru for the first time with a gravity team, i guess i'll post results here at some point in the future

 

[Wave⁂]

There are far too few situations where Gravity is superior to Swords Dance or
Nasty Plot.

 

[choknater]

oh, i know those situations!

it's the ones where the pokemon doesn't learn either swords dance or nasty plot, but learns gravity

 

[Wave⁂]

But why would you use that Pokemon over a Pokemon that gets Swords Dance or Nasty Plot?

 

[choknater]

the desire to use gravity

 

[kirbyraeg]

cuz starmie is good?

other than that, idk

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

B/c u want to use the move dragon rush

 

[choknater]

or Submission

 

[IceArrow]

Gravity is viable in OU with a sandstall approach. Blissey gains Sing, Landorus gains extremely powerful Earthquakes, and Dusclops gains Will o Wisp and Dynamic Punch.

 

[ss118]

Gravity can be used in doubles. That's all I see it for, really.

 

[kirbyraeg]

so i made an ru gravity team, laddered with it for a while, went undefeated on the ru ladder and peaked at 1900, then lost 2 games which brought my rating crashing down

gravity was kinda useless on it, the team would've been better off without it except in one minor case where it let me predict and 2hko a defensive misdreavus with earthquake

my two cents

 

[IceArrow]

What is the team?