Is chain grabbing cheap?

[AndrewCarlson]

I've played people who threatened to quit if I continued to chain grab. Right, like that's any worse than you spamming F-smash all day.

 

[Drecker]

No, thread over.

 

[Zook]

Of course it is. The fact that Bowser will NEVER win a major tournament just because a fat-*** penguin can sit on him to death is rediculous.

Still, it shouldn't be banned. There is one fool-proof way to avoid getting chain grabbed:

Don't get grabbed.

 

[shadyf0o]

Nothing is cheap in a tournament.

 

[Oblivinati]

In my opinion the wrong discussion is being had, cheap or otherwise it's allowed, so instead of complaing or arguing "cheapness" why not discuss strategies to avoid being grabbed? Untill then, I'll continue to be "cheap"

 

[Tujex]

Infinites ae cheap, since they allow certain characters like DDD to win matches based solely on landing a single grab. CHaingrabs aren't. A simple 0-random% chaingrab is basically just like any other combo that can be avoided and eventually escaped. INfintes aren't escapable and can be done from 0-death in most cases....which in turn is fairly cheap. That's just my opinion

 

[Geist]

"Cheap" is another word for "effective".
Of course, as long as it is actually effective, and it's not just because the other person is too stupid to realize his opponent doing the SAME MOVE over and over again and can't figure out a way around it.
rambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramble.

Infinites ae cheap, since they allow certain characters like DDD to win matches based solely on landing a single grab. INfintes aren't escapable and can be done from 0-death in most cases....which in turn is fairly cheap. That's just my opinion

DDD infinites against walls are hilarious. Therefore they got rid of stages with walls. =[

 

[Oblivinati]

"Cheap" is another word for "effective".
As long as it is actually effective, and it's not just because the other person is too stupid to realize his opponent doing the SAME MOVE over and over again and can't figure out a way around it.
rambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramblerambleramble

The only stupidity involved was getting yourself grabbed in the first place, the fact that it's the same move over and over doesn't make it any less difficult to escape.

Mostly playing devil's advocate here.

 

[Geist]

The only stupidity involved was getting yourself grabbed in the first place, the fact that it's the same move over and over doesn't make it any less difficult to escape.

Mostly playing devil's advocate here.

I was referring to people not being able to catch the complex and extremely cheap pattern of Fsmash>>Fsmash>>Fsmash>>Fsmash>>Fsmash>>Fsmash
to some people that is "cheap" -___-

When referring to the cheapness of chaingrabbing, it is synonymous with effective.

 

[Tien2500]

You have to **** up about 20 times to be killed by Fsmash spam. To get killed by an infinite you have to **** up once. There is a difference.

And not getting grabbed is very difficult. If you are DK and your opponent is Dedede you have to play absolutely perfectly and he has to be a mediocre player. Its kind of cheap. The risk/reward is completely out of whack.

 

[Hive]

You have to **** up about 20 times to be killed by Fsmash spam. To get killed by an infinite you have to **** up once. There is a difference.

And not getting grabbed is very difficult. If you are DK and your opponent is Dedede you have to play absolutely perfectly and he has to be a mediocre player. Its kind of cheap. The risk/reward is completely out of whack.

lol so true ^^
I hate when ppl say "just don't get grabbed" its never that simple mine as well say "don't die"

 

[bobson]

lol so true ^^
I hate when ppl say "just don't get grabbed" its never that simple mine as well say "don't die"

Metaknight's IDC stalling isn't cheap; after all, all you have to do to beat it is just never be 1% over him.

 

[Geist]

Well, honestly,"don't get grabbed" makes perfect sense.
It's the same philosophy as "don't get hit". Do this, and you will win.

If the guy grabs alot, figure out a way to punish him. Move alot, keep your spacing carefully, and maintain a large amount of time in the air.

 

[Foxy]

Why Is This Thread Here Again




Auuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Tien2500]

Well, honestly,"don't get grabbed" makes perfect sense.
It's the same philosophy as "don't get hit". Do this, and you will win.

If the guy grabs alot, figure out a way to punish him. Move alot, keep your spacing carefully, and maintain a large amount of time in the air.

The thing is I have never ever seen a match where somebody does not get hit. And I haven't seen a match where somebody doesn't get hit more than three times. Not getting grabbed in certain matchups requires complete perfect spacing. It requires you to have an unreasonably large skill advantage over your opponent. It isn't feasible.

 

[RyanPF]

I would not do it to someone I was just playing for fun with (if they were significantly less skilled), but in a competitive match I don't hesitate. It's a valid technique just like grabbing out of shield.

 

[Tien2500]

I would not do it to someone I was just playing for fun with (if they were significantly less skilled), but in a competitive match I don't hesitate. It's a valid technique just like grabbing out of shield.

I agree that it is a valid technique (at the moment). But that doesn't mean its not cheap.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

If they programmed throws with awful knockback and the ability to grab people out of the air, I can only imagine that it was intended. Since they fixed wavedashing, and L-Cancelling, they were probably carefully observing Melee. If chain throwing wasn't removed, then they probably intended for it to exist. If this is the case, then it's far from cheap, but rather, a tactic.

Then wouldn't all characters be able to do it? That would be like them saying "well, this fast-powerful-highpriority-longrange-low lag-unbeatable move CAN be used to win BUT only half of the roster will be able to use this." Get where I'm going?

 

[Alus]

^^^

do you want MK to have a chain grab???



Anyways chain grabs are not cheap...to a certain point...and that point is why the Bridge of Eldin, Moses island,Flatzone,Green hill zone, Corneria and any other stage with a walkoff or fixed wall is banned...

 

[bobson]

Anyways chain grabs are not cheap...to a certain point...and that point is why the Bridge of Eldin, Moses island,Flatzone,Green hill zone, Corneria and any other stage with a walkoff or fixed wall is banned...

Corneria and Green Hill Zone are counterpicks, and chaingrabbing out of the stage is the least of Flatzone 2's problems.

 

[Dudegms]

if u get chain grabbed its cuz ur bad

 

[Conclusively]

if u get chain grabbed its cuz ur bad

I would so sig this if I had room.

 

[BrawLBlazer]

Chain Grabs are almost always escapable at some point (except for IC's, D3's, etc.) so no, I don't think they're cheap.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

While I don't think chain-grabs are truly broken, they're definitley unbalanced, and I would not miss them at all if they were removed.

Now, if somethig was done to actually make these escapable (i.e. teching, grab breaks), then I'd be okay with them

 

[Kaffei]

Most of them are escapable at one point.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

I mean outside of taking 50% damage. at that point you may as well SD, Brawl's so broken there's hardly any chance of combacks.

So maybe chain-grabbing isn't the problem after all, maybe it's just Brawl.

 

[§leepy God]

It's another thread like this? About the Chain Grab, I think it's a combo and not a move, so I don't think it's broken, just unfair.

 

[SuSa]

@Hyper Ridley

Comebacks... impossible? You make me laugh

10Lucario's

 

[Tien2500]

Most of them are escapable at one point.

No chain grabs are not escapable. If they were escapable then they wouldn't be chain grabs. Dedede/Falco/Iceclimbers have inescapable chaingrabs. If you get grabbed the only way you get out is if your opponent ***** it up.

 

[BrawLBlazer]

No chain grabs are not escapable. If they were escapable then they wouldn't be chain grabs. Dedede/Falco/Iceclimbers have inescapable chaingrabs. If you get grabbed the only way you get out is if your opponent ***** it up.

Falco's chaingrab is escapable once your opponent reaches a certain amount of damage.

 

[Denzi]

No chain grabs are not escapable. If they were escapable then they wouldn't be chain grabs. Dedede/Falco/Iceclimbers have inescapable chaingrabs. If you get grabbed the only way you get out is if your opponent ***** it up.

Dedede reaches the end of the stage rather quickly, and Falco's only works to certain percents. So while they are inescapable, they're not always that bad.

 

[XxBlackxX]

^ exactly...the only infinite cg is ICs, and that one is the hardest to learn. anyways i (being a falco player myself LOL) dont really think theyre cheap, especially in tournies where you gotta do everything to try to win. in friendlies, i do tone down my cgs by a lot, but it is a legit tactic, why else would it be in the game?

 

[chic]

Most of them are escapable at one point.

yea, after you have 160 damage

but i believe they are cheap. theres been so many times when i'm owning a ddd, amkeeping my damage low, am close to winning, and have been doing a excellent job avoiding the cgs, but eventually get grabbed. next thing you know ive been cged to 120+ dmg. all my work down the drain. if u dont think thats cheap then i dont know what is

 

[corhor]

Lol they do small ammounts of damage and are easily escapable.

 

[XxBlackxX]

yea, after you have 160 damage

but i believe they are cheap. theres been so many times when i'm owning a ddd, amkeeping my damage low, am close to winning, and have been doing a excellent job avoiding the cgs, but eventually get grabbed. next thing you know ive been cged to 120+ dmg. all my work down the drain. if u dont think thats cheap then i dont know what is

er...i dont really recall any cg that takes you 0-120 other than the ICs. (unless its next to a wall of course)

 

[corhor]

No chain grabs are not escapable. If they were escapable then they wouldn't be chain grabs. Dedede/Falco/Iceclimbers have inescapable chaingrabs. If you get grabbed the only way you get out is if your opponent ***** it up.

Sidestep lol.

 

[HeroMystic]

Sidestep lol.

You can't sidestep chaingrabs unless the opponent ****s it up.

Which was the entire point.

 

[chic]

er...i dont really recall any cg that takes you 0-120 other than the ICs. (unless its next to a wall of course)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23UyrHXK36A& (7:25) the guy attemping it really sucks there btw.

ive also been a victim of this first hand. unless theres some secret button mash pattern i just can't escape from it

 

[XxBlackxX]

Lol they do small ammounts of damage and are easily escapable.

yes of course CHAINGRABS are easily escapable, you know, thats why it's called a CHAIN grab. ...(sarcasm)

 

[HeroMystic]

I'm pretty sure you can mash your way out of DeDeDe's Infinite unless you're 120+ since he has to hit twice before doing a D-throw.