-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Lord HDL’s Link Guide!
- Thread starter HDL
- Start date
VilNess, I’ll grant that if you can equip a jacket and use it consistently against someone who doesn’t know how to avoid it, then you may have to worry about disarming the traps. But for someone like me that knows about the jackets and how to do them, I’ll not let any Ness players get that yo-yo on me, haha. Of course it actually happened I’d recommend just using a spike or star. Thunder will most likely take too long, unless you want to do the ledge sweetspot one (which I actually find easier although slightly risky) or if you’re doing it while I’m dead.
But it seems you are unaware of trading jackets.
after dropping YYG you can just suffle a dair and equip thunderjacket later.
there are some challenges yes, like equipping the thunderjacket because of Links projectiles.
it´s still relatively fast with thunderslide.
and you don´t have to go for Th.jacket. you can just keep pressure with having spike/star jacket and PK fire.
after dropping YYG you can just suffle a dair and equip thunderjacket later.
there are some challenges yes, like equipping the thunderjacket because of Links projectiles.
it´s still relatively fast with thunderslide.
and you don´t have to go for Th.jacket. you can just keep pressure with having spike/star jacket and PK fire.
Haha I am aware of trading jackets. But it’s not really a matter of stopping Ness from equipping and trading jackets, it’s the fact that you need to land the yo-yo first and on top of that you have to do it correctly. Also even if you do it correctly you won’t have time to pull it off unless I’m at a higher percentage with Link. Otherwise I can simply recover and knock you before you can equip thunder. You may be able to equip spike or star but at that time I would already be braced to engage you again. And this is only if you manage to land the yo-yo in the first place. I don’t know what kind of Links you play over there but over here we don’t allow ourselves to get smacked with yo-yos, lol. And in response you your question earlier yes I do play all characters including Ness, so I know how difficult it would be to attempt a YYG on a very skilled player. Without the YYG there won’t be any jackets, unless there’s some other super secret hidden Ness skill that allows him to do so without YYG.
DjC fair (or shorthop fair) can push in the right place for upsmash. It is out on frame 12 so it really isn´t that much. and it definetly isn´t the only thing for Ness going on in this matchup, like we know.
"I don’t know what kind of Links you play over there but over here we don’t allow ourselves to get smacked with yo-yos, lol."
Heh, it´s like me saying I don´t allow myself to get faired or somthing.
"I don’t know what kind of Links you play over there but over here we don’t allow ourselves to get smacked with yo-yos, lol."
Heh, it´s like me saying I don´t allow myself to get faired or somthing.
Well I’m not trying to put it down or say that Ness can’t setup the YYG, but the fact of the matter is that against a skilled opponent you won’t be able to land it enough in order to rely on it for the win. In the long run you’ll just have to rely on Ness techniques, combos, edge guarding, etc. Jackets won’t help that much for the win especially against someone who knows how to prevent them. For example, let’s say that I notice you try to set it up with forward aerial. While close to the ground I can CC your yo-yo and get hit with the other hitboxes to prevent you from dropping any. Or the one that I’d prefer: after you equip a jacket I can get close to you (without touching you) and shield. And yes I can also shield the thunder jacket as well. While I do this I get pushed back (especially if I light shield) and then if you want another one you’d have to attempt yet another YYG, which is not exactly easy to setup even with forward aerial.
Also there is something I noticed that you may be able to confirm (since you’re already posting here). When you equip a jacket I notice that you seem to lose it if you do other attacks before making contact with the opponent. I noticed it doesn’t go away if you use PK Fire, but as for other attacks they just seem to cancel out the jacket that you went through trouble to equip. This means a Ness player would just be moving around tossing PK Fires left and right and trying to impact with their foe, risking leaving themselves open after a PK Fire or just getting their jacket shielded. It’s too much risky work to be worried about to land something like down aerial in an amount of time where you probably could have landed several of them. Unless you’re trying to trade for the thunder, but even then it can still be shielded.
Oh yeah, Ness is one of my badass men. I can’t get enough of SH forward aerial SPAM.
The difference is that his up smash is not exactly something that you can land easily and safely consistently. The fact that the YYG has to be done under certain conditions makes it even harder, especially since they are conditions that are difficult to create against a high leveled competitor. Ness would do better against Link simply using SH foward aerials and DJC combo madness instead of making risky attempts for a YYG in order to equip a jacket that can still be dealt with using shields.VilNess said:
Also there is something I noticed that you may be able to confirm (since you’re already posting here). When you equip a jacket I notice that you seem to lose it if you do other attacks before making contact with the opponent. I noticed it doesn’t go away if you use PK Fire, but as for other attacks they just seem to cancel out the jacket that you went through trouble to equip. This means a Ness player would just be moving around tossing PK Fires left and right and trying to impact with their foe, risking leaving themselves open after a PK Fire or just getting their jacket shielded. It’s too much risky work to be worried about to land something like down aerial in an amount of time where you probably could have landed several of them. Unless you’re trying to trade for the thunder, but even then it can still be shielded.
Oh yeah, Ness is one of my badass men. I can’t get enough of SH forward aerial SPAM.
Yes, it looks like you know how to disarm jackets, good.
I play against Luigi a lot and I know that it is a pain because of his WD shield.
when Ness has a jacket it can come to a Cat&mouse thing easily.
you can walk and shield, then I´ll run or jump away from you. your shield will start decreasing eventually. you can attack to gain shield back. maybe I´ll see that coming and hit with the jacket. or maybe you saw that coming and do a jab to shield.
yes, it is more complicated than just "Ness will hit" or "Link will always shield jackets" ...mindgames...
you are right about using upsmash is hard. Keep in mind though that if you CC the upsmash you´ll take 17% and in most cases end up having to tech. or you can shieldgrabafter upsmash is released under your feet.
you can also roll back but then you risk eating the later part which comboes into bair.
oh btw. that fair "halfjoke" I meant I´ll never get faired by Link.
having problems with not allowing to attack with jacket? I´m assuming a scenario where you want to succeed jacketing your enemy. dashdance to occasional Pk fire or WD pk fire is good if done unpredictably. it´s hard to punish if you don´t know when it´s coming.
oh btw, you don´t really leave yourself open with thunderjacket. I agree it is possible to disarm it. and links sword does either clank (disarm) the jacket or go through it.
and fairs rule for Ness, yes.
I think we are on the same page. It´s just I kinda forget to always type what i think or what I perceive as self-obvious.
I can imagine a combo where a pro Link uptilts a Ness few times to some aerial to grab to Fair him out of his second jump and shoot an arrow (if its possible) to his Pk thunder O_O ...and look him falling...
This match should be even or slightly favored for Link considering the range/projectile advantage he has.
I play against Luigi a lot and I know that it is a pain because of his WD shield.
when Ness has a jacket it can come to a Cat&mouse thing easily.
you can walk and shield, then I´ll run or jump away from you. your shield will start decreasing eventually. you can attack to gain shield back. maybe I´ll see that coming and hit with the jacket. or maybe you saw that coming and do a jab to shield.
yes, it is more complicated than just "Ness will hit" or "Link will always shield jackets" ...mindgames...
you are right about using upsmash is hard. Keep in mind though that if you CC the upsmash you´ll take 17% and in most cases end up having to tech. or you can shieldgrabafter upsmash is released under your feet.
you can also roll back but then you risk eating the later part which comboes into bair.
oh btw. that fair "halfjoke" I meant I´ll never get faired by Link.
having problems with not allowing to attack with jacket? I´m assuming a scenario where you want to succeed jacketing your enemy. dashdance to occasional Pk fire or WD pk fire is good if done unpredictably. it´s hard to punish if you don´t know when it´s coming.
oh btw, you don´t really leave yourself open with thunderjacket. I agree it is possible to disarm it. and links sword does either clank (disarm) the jacket or go through it.
and fairs rule for Ness, yes.
I think we are on the same page. It´s just I kinda forget to always type what i think or what I perceive as self-obvious.
I can imagine a combo where a pro Link uptilts a Ness few times to some aerial to grab to Fair him out of his second jump and shoot an arrow (if its possible) to his Pk thunder O_O ...and look him falling...
This match should be even or slightly favored for Link considering the range/projectile advantage he has.
Heh, I bet you came in here assuming that no one will understand your first post about thunder jackets and such. I guess it didn’t help that I made no mention of it in my guide, but that’s simply because those descriptions are just general, so I didn’t want to get into detail about dealing with jackets and such. But really I have been training competitively with Ness (and everyone else actually) since day one of the first smash, and I do occasionally go to the Ness forum.
And with the edge guarding. Really I just rather jump in the way of the thunder head so I get hit and Ness just falls. It’s much more effective than knocking him out with something like neutral aerial which will give him the chance to DI it and attempt a recovery again. It’s worth the 8% if I can ensure a death at low percentages. Unless he’s going for a sweetspot which can be edge hogged, but that usually won’t happen at low percentages.
Haha of course. Everything in this game is. I wasn’t insinuating that I could just walk up to you and put my shield out. That was just a very simple example I made of something that would work in case the Ness successfully equips something.VilNess said:
Looks that way to me.VilNess said:
And with the edge guarding. Really I just rather jump in the way of the thunder head so I get hit and Ness just falls. It’s much more effective than knocking him out with something like neutral aerial which will give him the chance to DI it and attempt a recovery again. It’s worth the 8% if I can ensure a death at low percentages. Unless he’s going for a sweetspot which can be edge hogged, but that usually won’t happen at low percentages.
entelegantLozer
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2005
- Messages
- 135
Guide really halped pick up my speed with Link. Coming from Sheik, it was definately weird controlling Link before, but with the idea of using arrows like falco's SHL to approah from the front, bomb drops from above, and boomerangs for behind distraction, my approach has improved signifigcantly. Also, my recovery has become smoother. Only main probably I have is wavedashing. It's a ***** with Link compared to Sheik or Samus o.o Can't seem to get consistency there :/ Really sick trick vids too man. Thanks for the guide.
Virtual Alex
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 21
This guide is the best I have ever read. I love the videos on all the tricks. The vids of you going under all the stages are super cool. I am a total noob though, I just got a gamecube a week ago JUST FOR THIS GAME! I consider myself a pretty good link player in the N64 version but with all this new stuff in this game I find myself getting owned by lvl 9 comps. But practice make perfect I guess. It's total hell trying to get used to using the XY buttons to jump instead of up...
But I want to ask how you do some of thos understage techs. I watched the videos other and over and I can't seem to figure it out. When the bomb blows up in mid air, is that because the timer ran out or because you chucked it at the nearest wall or cieling? It also looks like you do a hook shot and then do a double jump and spin attack out of it, even though it seemed like you aready double jumped before. How does that part work? I am refering to the hyrule temple mostly. But I think you do it in all of them, but in the temple I really see the hookshot shoot out, then you cancel it or something and double jump. What is happening there?
But I want to ask how you do some of thos understage techs. I watched the videos other and over and I can't seem to figure it out. When the bomb blows up in mid air, is that because the timer ran out or because you chucked it at the nearest wall or cieling? It also looks like you do a hook shot and then do a double jump and spin attack out of it, even though it seemed like you aready double jumped before. How does that part work? I am refering to the hyrule temple mostly. But I think you do it in all of them, but in the temple I really see the hookshot shoot out, then you cancel it or something and double jump. What is happening there?
8000
Smash Lord
I don't know if you wanna answer this since it's your guide HDL but some of the time the bomb blows up in the air from time. Others (like Fourside Bomb Teching) is where he threw the bomb at the wall and teched off of it.
You can take the hookshot question because how it's worded i got no idea what you're talking about Virtual Alex.
You can take the hookshot question because how it's worded i got no idea what you're talking about Virtual Alex.
Virtual Alex
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 21
Ok, in the video "techs under temple" one of the things he does is drop down jump underthe little white chunk on the bottm right of temple. Then a bomb explodes sending him to the left under the main body. There he does and air dodge, shoots a hookshot but seemingly before the shoot hooks onto anything, he does andair jump and an up+b spin. It looks super complicated but I am just curious what going on with the hookshot. Does it hook onto anything? How did you cancel out of it to jump.
8000
Smash Lord
Yes ok that is merely a bomb being thrown and teched out of, followed by an aerial dodge and a hookshot implant into the ledge, then he presses A to break the hold of the hookshot in the ledge (cancel it) and then he uses his Spin Attack. Very simple actually, the hard part is only the Bomb Tech.
Virtual Alex
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 21
So let me get this straight. When he shot that hookshot there was no ledge, he simply shot it into a wall. Shooting a hookshot into a wall can give you and extra air jump?
Viewtiful Joel
Smash Cadet
If you watch his Under Final Destination video, you'll see him do a similar thing with the hookshot. You can also do the same thing easily by going to Corneria and getting on the tail of the ship (the exhaust section). Then just double jump and hookshot to the left into that fin part of the ship that divides the ship. Immediately press Z again and you'll pop up in the air as if you jumped. So, you don't really have to have a ledge to hookshot into in order to get the extra little jump - a wall will do fine as long as the wall can be grabbed with the hookshot. I hope that explains it.
Virtual Alex
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 21
Yeah I did notice that on corneria. That makes link more powerful indeed!
If you’re talking about Techs Under Temple, then all I did was bomb tech jump from the wall. When you have 34% or more you can throw the bomb towards the wall (you have to be next to the wall for it to work). At the same time you throw it you press L/R + Up (you have to click the button). For the second tech I just teched off of that small stalactite thing at the bottom and then latched on the wall to the left. As far as holding the bomb and timing when it explodes, that’s in Under Final Destination and Under Temple Abyss.
8000
Smash Lord
Virtual Alex said:
The Hookshot can shoot into any kind of solid structure and can give you that "extra jump" if you press A before you start to hang by the Hookshot.
koloblican11763
Smash Apprentice
Good guide, I knew most of it before but there where some useful tips that I found. I never really took advanted of CC before now, thanks.
I will probably put some newer match videos later on in the year and replace them with the current ones. The ones up now are from earlier this year and aren’t recent at all. I can, no doubt, obtain videos of way better matches than the ones up at the moment. But that won’t happen for some time. Just giving a heads up for the time being.
Second_Legend
Smash Rookie
Awesome guide. I agree on you with link is hard to learn. When i first started playing SSBM i started out with link. Now my main is Roy but Link is the main pick for those who are just starting to play. They should've made link an Unlockable character. Thats just my View.
krazyzyko
Smash Champion
AWESOME GUIDE!
If you want you could add Link combos for specific characters, his weaknesses and advantages and tell give advice about what to do or NEVER do. Wow your Link is just pure evil, he is great my Link wouldn't stand a chance but my Fox might probably do, or at least give you a great match. I just can't wait to fight you guys in the tourney(lol).
......later
If you want you could add Link combos for specific characters, his weaknesses and advantages and tell give advice about what to do or NEVER do. Wow your Link is just pure evil, he is great my Link wouldn't stand a chance but my Fox might probably do, or at least give you a great match. I just can't wait to fight you guys in the tourney(lol).
......later
Viewtiful Joel
Smash Cadet
Great guide since I haven't told you that before. I was just thinking that you might want to reconsider using Up-Smash a little bit more. On your guide I think you give it a 1/10 rating. Sure it's easily DI'd out of by most characters, but it also has very little start up and ending lag, so you can do any other move directly out of it pretty much (or another up-smash if you want). Maybe I'm way off since I don't have that much experience with good smashers, but I think up-smash deserves a little better rating than 1/10 at least. Maybe you can play around with it in some of your matches and see if you think it deserves any better.
Another thing I noticed in one of your videos is that you seem to use the Bow more than the Bombs (in the video against Ganon I think). I've always liked the bombs, but the bow works well in many situations now I see. I'm going to try to start using the bow more often now when the boomerang is flying around (of course I'll still use bombs a lot as well). Link's projectiles really make him a tough fight!
One thing that I think could be really helpful for Link especially is this whole thing of Wavelanding (wavedashing as you land). This is awesome for Link because of the length of the hookshot. For example, you go in for an aerial attack and see that your opponent has his shield up. So, instead of doing the aerial, just waveland away from the opponent, out of their shield-grab range. But, since your hookshot is so long, you can still grab them as they attempt to grab you.
The waveland can also be used to do bomb chasing. If you SH throw a bomb, you can either do a 2nd jump before landing and do an aerial attack, or you can waveland from the SH and chase after the bomb. If the opponent wavedashes away from the bomb attack, your waveland will put you a little closer to them allowing you to grab them with the almighty hookshot! Or of course, you could do any other attack out of the waveland, or even waveland away from them if they are really aggressive. Because of Link's range, I think that waveland is really a great tool to have.
Another thing I noticed in one of your videos is that you seem to use the Bow more than the Bombs (in the video against Ganon I think). I've always liked the bombs, but the bow works well in many situations now I see. I'm going to try to start using the bow more often now when the boomerang is flying around (of course I'll still use bombs a lot as well). Link's projectiles really make him a tough fight!
One thing that I think could be really helpful for Link especially is this whole thing of Wavelanding (wavedashing as you land). This is awesome for Link because of the length of the hookshot. For example, you go in for an aerial attack and see that your opponent has his shield up. So, instead of doing the aerial, just waveland away from the opponent, out of their shield-grab range. But, since your hookshot is so long, you can still grab them as they attempt to grab you.
The waveland can also be used to do bomb chasing. If you SH throw a bomb, you can either do a 2nd jump before landing and do an aerial attack, or you can waveland from the SH and chase after the bomb. If the opponent wavedashes away from the bomb attack, your waveland will put you a little closer to them allowing you to grab them with the almighty hookshot! Or of course, you could do any other attack out of the waveland, or even waveland away from them if they are really aggressive. Because of Link's range, I think that waveland is really a great tool to have.
I agree with you, Razor. The first thing I did when I got on this site was to look for ways to destroy people with Link. This guide has so much infomation on basicly everything I wanted. Anyone who plays Link should read (in small portions...) P.S. get the new vids on as soon as you can!
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,478
I've read the guide all the way through. I like it lot. I can tell you have really put good time and effort into this guide, Lord HDL. I remember recently scanning this forum for older Link (and Young Link) guides from years past, and they are horrible! This guide most definitely blows them all out of the water. Fortunately Young Link is similar enough to Link that I was still able to learn some good tactics to use. I don't know that I will ever use big Link again, but this guide sure makes me want to. Besides, this world does not have enough Young Link players like myself.
mkmelee
Smash Lord
This is definitely the best link guide out there. Character matchups, stages, strategies and setups, moves and efficiency, vids, this thing has everything. 10/10
THE RED SPARROW
Smash Lord
But your old match vids were godly, esp. the one on Corneria.Lord HDL said:
EDIT: Quick questions-
1. How do you guys buffer the sword jabs into throws? When I do it with Z it still attacks.
2. the SHFFLed Bair into throw. Is it one smooth motion or do you have to tap back again and quickly press Z?
Thanks in advance.
If you do a second jab when you tap Z you’re doing it a little too early. Time it so you tap Z when the move finishes completely. This isn’t a surefire way of catching them, though, it can be escaped if they dodge, jump, or even DI right. But DIing the jab fast enough usually never happens. Mix it up like a jab and then forward or down smash to get them used to shielding, then a bit later on grab instead.
Back aerial into grab all depends on how you did the move. If you did it in a way where they land in front of you then you just grab (this method is a bit faster since you don’t need to turn around). If they’re behind you then press back after you land and then grab. You need to make sure that they will land right as the hookshot gets there. If it’s someone like Samus it probably won’t work because she’s too floaty and will be able to jump away after the stun is over. Same with Fox since he will land and be able to act faster than you can catch him. Medium speed fallers like Sheik and Ganon should be your main targets.
The Link flight glitch can only be done in the first version of the game. I’m not sure but I believe that means it’s not possible in any PAL version.
Back aerial into grab all depends on how you did the move. If you did it in a way where they land in front of you then you just grab (this method is a bit faster since you don’t need to turn around). If they’re behind you then press back after you land and then grab. You need to make sure that they will land right as the hookshot gets there. If it’s someone like Samus it probably won’t work because she’s too floaty and will be able to jump away after the stun is over. Same with Fox since he will land and be able to act faster than you can catch him. Medium speed fallers like Sheik and Ganon should be your main targets.
The Link flight glitch can only be done in the first version of the game. I’m not sure but I believe that means it’s not possible in any PAL version.
THE RED SPARROW
Smash Lord
Great thanks Lord HDL. The jab/throw tech looked liked it was cancelled because the tming that you and The Germ have with it is so precise.Lord HDL said:
Another thing, how do you guys drop the bombs w/o throwing them?
Oops sorry I didn’t catch that post, lol. You drop stuff with Z in the air.
mkmelee
Smash Lord
Awesome job on the guide. Very detailed and handy info for any Link player and a good handful of videos for visual reference. 10/10!
Nightmare KoRn Kid
Smash Champion
I LOVED your combo vid HDL, I know you and a few others Links are collaborating to make a vid and I suggest LOZ music. Not saying that the music Germ uses isn't "good" but your music is much better for link. Glad you have a vid that bests' germs' =P
C0ME_bac_k-id
Smash Apprentice
wow this guide..makes me a better link player...Tops for this guide
DarkHero
Smash Cadet
Wow...This guide is the best I like the videos and the match-up section.
Damax
Smash Lord
Holy moly nice thing there you've gotten me less dumb... I'll keep those vid in mind, work with em and hopefully make it in the east canada team for the trans-canada tournament since I only need to beat some torontians guy.
good vids, nice faqs and nice Link
all I'd like to add up: tilt down A, isn't as useless as you said. since its takes more time to start it can be easily used for mind games, you'r opponent think you'll be doing your downsmash and attempt to shield grab, but the late hit should catch them
and A A to down smash which comes out quick can catch a few feet and may help you during close combats.
bow user tip: aim for the feet it'll hit more often (doesn't apply while air born)
HDL= Hero des Link?
english translation: Hero of Link players
I still has to try that bomb tech roll. (bombing yourself while cc to tech roll)
good vids, nice faqs and nice Link
all I'd like to add up: tilt down A, isn't as useless as you said. since its takes more time to start it can be easily used for mind games, you'r opponent think you'll be doing your downsmash and attempt to shield grab, but the late hit should catch them
and A A to down smash which comes out quick can catch a few feet and may help you during close combats.
bow user tip: aim for the feet it'll hit more often (doesn't apply while air born)
HDL= Hero des Link?
english translation: Hero of Link players
I still has to try that bomb tech roll. (bombing yourself while cc to tech roll)
oh snap!!!!! that mushroom is going to kill me!!!!! :mushroom:
krazyzyko
Smash Champion
I would like to suggest this for all the smashers out there that are tired of identifying between the Links:
1.For Adult Link=Link
2.For Young Link=Lynk
Please spread the word to ease a lil' bit your way telling about an specific Link.
(instead of writing AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAduuuuuuuult and Yooooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuung)
What do you guys think about my idea?
...........................later
1.For Adult Link=Link
2.For Young Link=Lynk
Please spread the word to ease a lil' bit your way telling about an specific Link.
(instead of writing AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAduuuuuuuult and Yooooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuung)
What do you guys think about my idea?
...........................later