Marth Matchup. Help!

[BairJew]

^Wow. Wait quick Q Bubbaking are you just a straight Samus player?

 

[bubbaking]

My mains are Samus and Sheik. I play Bowser (hence my gamertag, SeriousB) and Kirby for fun.....serious fun. ;p

Edit: In case you're wondering about my particular activities on the character boards, I have a college friend who plays DK and G&W, so I've been actively trying to collect info for him.

 

[BairJew]

Gotcha, makes sense then, I feel very sorry for you sir it must be quite difficult to get anywhere with bowser i've never actually seen any ways he can be better than other characters and oh snap gotcha I feel sorrry for your friend to both of his characters are quite difficult to pay with competitively.

 

[McNinja]

Wait he's a G&W main??? Wow he would be the first G&W main since mid 05. I would love to play him if he's good.

 

[Pi]

kuya is a really good g&w here in FL
he recently took like 9 stocks in a crew battle vs. some notable marths lol
his g&w is no joke

 

[McNinja]

^ Oh really? That's awesome. I want to get some G&W experience just in case.

 

[BairJew]

^ I don't think you will have to worry too much about seeing a G&W in tourney anytime soon ;P

 

[KirbyKaze]

M2K says the only thing Falcon needs to do against Samus is get her to 20% in any way he can and then u-throw > FJ uair falling uair and then spam uair until she dies or takes like 100% trying to get down from his ******** uair.

 

[Ørn]

Well yeah he was saying that on the livestream for The Big House, though he was speaking generally about all characters not just Samus lol

There's some truth to it even if it's simplifying the matchup to the extreme.

 

[BairJew]

haha So therefore Falcon Uair > Any other character in this game

 

[Pi]

don't tell falcons that
let them dthrow us and get their 1 follow up before we're off stage and grab the ledge

 

[McNinja]

Anyways, back on topic. What's a good way to edge guard Marth? I'm usually to scared of getting stage spiked to jump down and nair him. Advice?

 

[MonkUnit]

Low ftilt, run off bomb, and utilt are good.

 

[McNinja]

The problem with Utilt and low angled Ftilt is that if I get that close to the edge, Marth usually forgets about sweet-spotting the ledge and hits me with his up-B when he tries to recover. Is there a way to avoid that? Mindgames I presume?

 

[Violence]

At low percents, you can cc dsmash, I believe.

 

[Pi]

also u can outspace his ub w/ utilt and d angle ftilt
at least in my experience
though he can mix it up and instead of hugging the stage move back a little further, and risk not being able to tech, bout outspace ur edgeguard
i need to use utilt more, ftilt is so easy though

also dsmash, i need to work the dsmash more
i think dsmash has some potential for edgeguarding marths
low % dsamsh wall jump tech killls are so satisfying

 

[McNinja]

Wow I didn't know you could out space it. Ill have to work on that spacing. And the CC idea is definately something I have to try. Thanks!

 

[bubbaking]

Gotcha, makes sense then, I feel very sorry for you sir it must be quite difficult to get anywhere with bowser i've never actually seen any ways he can be better than other characters and oh snap gotcha I feel sorrry for your friend to both of his characters are quite difficult to pay with competitively.

Well, at least he's better than Kirby and Pichu! XD And he beats YOSHI somehow (although I'm not sure why). Also, my friend is the reason I now know that Samus can actually have problems w/ DK. It's a 5:5 MU. (-_-)

^ I don't think you will have to worry too much about seeing a G&W in tourney anytime soon ;P

Well, it's never bad to have experience against another char. You never know, someone might just pull out a gimmicky low tier char against you cuz no one knows the MU properly, like YL vs Jiggs.

Well yeah he was saying that on the livestream for The Big House, though he was speaking generally about all characters not just Samus lol

There's some truth to it even if it's simplifying the matchup to the extreme.

From what I've seen, M2K loves to really simplify MUs. Maybe he's trying to tell us noobs (i guess we're noob-ish compared to him) things that usually work and thus should become habit or maybe he's exploiting the fact that others are often stuck on a certain habit w/ a certain char. Idk...

Edit: Wow, right after posting this, I found this on another Samus thread:

if i speak too complex, it will not be remembered.

I guess that makes sense.

The problem with Utilt and low angled Ftilt is that if I get that close to the edge, Marth usually forgets about sweet-spotting the ledge and hits me with his up-B when he tries to recover. Is there a way to avoid that? Mindgames I presume?

Everyone else pretty much covered this, but I thought I'd add that utilt can trade w/ upB in case you don't space it properly. Marth's upB hitbox isn't nearly as good as Roys, which is ironic. Also, dsmash is pretty good cuz if they don't tech and possibly screw THEMSELVES over, they get stage spiked.

 

[BairJew]

Well, at least he's better than Kirby and Pichu! XD And he beats YOSHI somehow (although I'm not sure why). Also, my friend is the reason I now know that Samus can actually have problems w/ DK. It's a 5:5 MU. (-_-)

Question. Are you honestly sure about that 5:5 mu?
and I never really said it was bad to have MU experience just that i've never really seen a G&W player. Ever. However as soon as I see a good one than I might think about the MU lol

 

[Pi]

dk vs. samus is close

i think ihavespaceballs ihavespaceblondes IHSB has some insight into the matchup

iirc the reasoning behind it was that samus can make it difficult for DK to get in, but once he does get in, it's tough to deal with
and i think edgeguarding dk was a problem?

 

[BairJew]

Waiiitt edgeguarding DK is a problem? can't you just Utilit him when spaced correctly or even low ftilt, or hog the edge when he is lower due his really really bad vertical recovery options?

 

[Pi]

his spinning dk arms are really long though, and last forever
i'm not sure, it's been a while since i had to edgeguard a DK

 

[BairJew]

haha I guess so, still it feel like samus can camp the **** out of him and control the field by forcing his approach or stopping him from approaching.

 

[Pi]

that's best case scenerio lol
try to keep his smelly gorilla feet, and grubby gorilla hands off of ur char and u should be good2go

 

[McNinja]

Wow I really wanna fight a DK now. Bairjew, you need to change your main to DK.

 

[BairJew]

Nah i'm thinkin you should switch to DK you did at one point. It would be a nice change from constant samus lol

 

[McNinja]

Lol I switched for about 5 or 6 matches with no idea how to play as DK competitively. I hardly count that as me switching mains.

 

[bubbaking]

DK is agile for a big character, so once he's in, it's hard to keep his hands and feet.......off Samus. (Wow, I just realized how weird that sounded while I was typing this, but I refuse to backspace now.) His uairs are fast and strong so they're scary potential KOs on an airborne Samus, and it's pretty easy for DK to get Samus airborne (uthrow and cargo>uthrow) and somewhat hard for her to get back down once that happens. About edgeguarding DK, his arms are invincible while spinning, so that often screws up a LOT of attempts. One good thing in our favor is that his shield absolutely sucks, so sometimes we just get freebies with our missiles and tilts just because DK decided to block.

 

[BairJew]

McNinja: I believe it was for a tad longer than that time frame lol and you seemed pretty serious about it at the time but I was kidding anyhow tiger

And DK may have some good things buttttt bubbaking I think you are forgetting everything bad about DK which is just about..well every aspect of DK. He is big hairy and a gorilla

 

[McNinja]

He's not just a big hairy gorilla. He's a big hairy gorilla WITH A TIE! That tie is top tier bro.

 

[Corigames]

Marth Matchup
10derails

 

[BairJew]

I'm going to see how long I can steer this away from the actual marth mu, but anyways fsmash > than all of samus's moves?

 

[Violence]

It clanks with a few things. Also, if the Samus baits it, you dun goofed.

Outspacing it, and shield->wdoos works.

 

[McNinja]

Is Dsmash a better punish or is Fsmash?

 

[Corigames]

Which ever one will get them closer to/off the edge faster.

 

[McNinja]

So Fsmash most of the time then?

 

[Pi]

if u can land it yea
dsmash is like twice is fast though

 

[McNinja]

Ok makes sense. I just though Dsmash had more combo ability so maybe that would play a factor.

 

[Pi]

not so much vs. marth

 

[McNinja]

Ok so Fsmash it is. What's a good stage to counter pick against marth?