Marth Social Thread

[DMG]

Nope. Leave it as it is, the Melee/PM version. THANK YOU

 

[SpiderMad]

Nope. Leave it as it is, the Melee/PM version. THANK YOU

But I want both >=(, Why does roy get all the cool things? His side-b can do backflips n stuff now

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

^why?
bcuz melee

 

[Ariyo]

Can someone give me the notation for wavebounce reverse neutral B? And wavebounce side B?

 

[SpiderMad]

Can someone give me the notation for wavebounce reverse neutral B? And wavebounce side B?

Facing left, jump left, Control stick right and press B (creating a B-reverse), quickly shift back to control stick left to reverse it again (and in Ike's case hold B to keep the QD charged and go back to control stick right just to aid the reversed momentum). You can see Ike doing a reverse B for a few frames, and he's then reversing that reverse B again with my quick control stick left input.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v5cy6uqC0Os&t=106
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAw6bTOUyXg#t=74

It's basically just doing a dash dance input while you're doing/starting the move.
Practice WB side-b first, then you'll see doing it for neutral B just requires more finesse

 

[Ariyo]

Facing left, jump left, Control stick right and press B (creating a B-reverse), quickly shift back to control stick left to reverse it again (and in Ike's case hold B to keep the QD charged and go back to control stick right just to aid the reversed momentum). You can see Ike doing a reverse B for a few frames, and he's then reversing that reverse B again with my quick control stick left input.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v5cy6uqC0Os&t=106
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAw6bTOUyXg#t=74

It's basically just doing a dash dance input while you're doing/starting the move.
Practice WB side-b first, then you'll see doing it for neutral B just requires more finesse

Seems rough. Thanks though.

 

[SpiderMad]

Seems rough. Thanks though.

It's easy just spam dash dance inputs while you press b and you'll get it down

 

[Ariyo]

Lol, that's pretty much what I was doing. Definitely a fun tech.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

unfortunately i can't play for like 3-4 days, so i have no idea how marth feels, everyone is saying everything feels better and smoother, what about marth? does he feel better in any way?

 

[NameChange]

He definitely does due to the shield pushback fix
Actually, every character feels better because of that

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

I need some help, the more I play Marth, the more I realize the things that got him far in melee are common place in PM. It sucks. First of all, I play a campy (gay) marth. I have the tipper spacing to a T and mostly space with sh double fairs or sh fair wave land. Throw out a couple u(f)tilts on reaction to my opponents approach. And this works. Against characters like mario / luigi, melee vets or melee - esque characters, I'm fine. I smile to myself thinking I'm the new Ken; but against people like Ike whose sword covers the whole screen or sonic who runs quick as hell I have trouble.

Its not really a match-up advice type of thing, but I'm wondering if you guys have re-thought your playstyle because of the project M changes. Like is a defensive Marth just a poor option now that characters can just avoid or pressure better. Has anyone else noticed that you're smacking the c-stick like 11 times if you don't get a tipper F smash on people's recovery or to get certain gimps you have to go for risky dairs?

idk. Just my attempt at starting some marth discussion (aka help me win apex)

 

[DMG]

Marth still plays pretty similar. He's no longer special though, and you have to play much more diligently and precise. I haven't been able to play 3.0, and there were physics changes that possibly benefit Marth that were fixed (shield pushback, fixing stage collision, etc)

 

[NameChange]

Marth's dancing blade actually feels more...fluid? Anyone noticed this?

 

[Xinc]

Marth's dancing blade actually feels more...fluid? Anyone noticed this?

Definitely more fluid. It's harder to pull on wifi though, for frame lag reasons. Also, I feel that doubling fair got easier than 2.6? I know there wasn't any changes, but still...

 

[SpiderMad]

Marth feels way more fluid in P:M than Melee with just about everything, I noticed Dair's animation or something in 3.0 might have been changed so maybe they did do something to Fair or physics Xinx that they didn't mention: there's a lot of stuff they didn't include on the change list. Like 2 frame start up reductions and stuff on Ganon's up-b

 

[DMG]

They mentioned Ganon's Upb startup

 

[UMR | donmk]

I believe (without evidence) that shffl double fair is easier due to the universal stage collision detection changes. I think this is also the reason why I had to relearn my l-cancel timings.

 

[SpiderMad]

They mentioned Ganon's Upb startup

That's what they want you to think

Also here's a video today of me doin some good aerials at the beginning of a match against Eddy Murphie
http://www.twitch.tv/tko727/b/487961569?t=104m09s

 

[DMG]

No really, in the patch notes it said "Made Ganon Upb startup lessened"

I dunno what more you would want. THEY TOLD US

Tell me your secrets Grass

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

I just found out how good pivoting is for marth. Figured I might as well learn how to do it. What can be pivoted though? I know you can pivot smashes, but what about tilts? Like ftilt uptilt and dtilt.

 

[UMR | donmk]

When you pivot, the game treats your character as if you are standing still for that frame. This means you can do any move that you could do if you were standing still, including tilts and jabs. However, getting the timing for pivot tilts is (in my opinion) a lot harder than for pivot smashes, since you need to be dash dancing and then move the control stick at the perfect time to get the tilt. If you're going to practice, I suggest starting with pivot jabs, since that only requires the control stick to be in neutral, and then build on your tilts from there.

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

I actually got pivot smashes surprisingly quickly. I guess I'm just good with that motion. But I still can't do pivot tilts. The only way I've gotten it to work is that trick where you dash then smash the stick in the other direction, making you spin and keeping you on that standing animation a little longer. I just don't understand how I'm supposed to go from a dash input to a dtilt on a single frame.

 

[Shaya]

Although I can't test it right now, I believe PM follows from Brawl's engine in that control stick + c stick direction = tilt.
So if you can pivot a smash attack with the c stick, a little little extra movement on the control stick will give you a tilt. Easiest case is down tilt.

 

[UMR | donmk]

Pivot smashes are the easiest because you can basically ignore the control stick once you've done the pivot input. Tilts require you to have near perfect timing of both the attack button and the control stick. That's why I suggested doing pivot jabs first, because Leaving the control stick in neutral is easier than needing it in a certain direction.

Also, I believe that the brawl tilt as mentioned by Shaya has been removed, since I can crouch cancel into down smash without needing to release the control stick.

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

Thanks for the tips, Im getting the hang of jab pivots, hopefully I can get tilts.

 

[LordShade67]

Okay, so admittingly, I picked up Marth in Project M after learning Brawl Marth (Yes, surprising). While for the most part, I've gotten an idea of how he should be played, a few questions are still on my mind.

1. FTilt. Should it EVER be used? And if so, how?
2. Dancing Blade. Now I know it's not Brawl DB, but besides recovering, what uses does it serve?
3. Tech Chasing. How does Marth do in that situation(IE, from a DThrow)?

 

[DMG]

Ftilt is an OK move. You should only try to use it when the opponent is in the air (or when they are trapped somewhere dangerous near the edge/bad position), because they won't have many defensive resources to get around it (no shielding, no dashing away, no spotdodge). Ftilt covers in front obviously, but covers airborne opponents much better than Dtilt. It's also more extensive than Jab and will knockback further. You don't have to use Ftilt much, but it is situationally useful for covering in front and slightly above marth very well.

You don't need Dancing Blade much onstage. You will have to figure out good times to try and use it. Whenever I consider dancing blade onstage, if it's on the ground, I usually opt for Dtilt or a grab. It's sort of useful to use it out of a DD/Pivot if they come in fast but that's all I can think of atm. You can use cool B Reverse tricks off of platforms and up to platforms though I guess

Marth is really good at tech chasing. Quite fast and can cover a ton of options easily with range. You also force the opponent to constantly evaluate tipper range, especially if platforms are involved.

Marth usually tech chases with Fthrow and Uthrow to platforms. Dthrow can tech chase, but usually gives Marth less of a frame advantage and gives him fewer true followups if they DI well or are floatier. Dthrow can be used more on FF's and in situations where you can Dthrow them near the edge while they still land onstage.

 

[UMR | donmk]

Okay, so admittingly, I picked up Marth in Project M after learning Brawl Marth (Yes, surprising). While for the most part, I've gotten an idea of how he should be played, a few questions are still on my mind.

1. FTilt. Should it EVER be used? And if so, how?
2. Dancing Blade. Now I know it's not Brawl DB, but besides recovering, what uses does it serve?
3. Tech Chasing. How does Marth do in that situation(IE, from a DThrow)?

1. I really like Ftilt. It's kind of a lower risk / lower reward version of Fsmash. In addition to the situations DMG mentioned, I often use it after an Fthrow if I'm not 100% sure if an Fsmash will hit, just because it starts up faster and as such will sometimes hit the opponent while they are still in the air, as opposed to Fsmash which would come out after they've landed (this is of course DI dependent). Also, if the opponent is recovering from above the ledge (or sometimes even at the ledge depending on the character), you can throw it out and if they avoid it (air dodge or jump) you can throw out some other move (utilt generally if they jump), whereas if you had Fsmashed, you'd be sitting there picking up your sword while you ate some attack the opponent used when he saw you Fsmash.

2. DB is useful in a couple of situations outside recovering. I'm sure every Marth knows that feeling of having the opponent at really high percent, but not being able to land a killing blow, and not being able to combo because of the opponents percentage. The first hit of DB comes out deceptively quickly, and can set up into with utilt (see for example Dr. PP v Armada at APEX 2012 Melee Grand Finals) or (depending on DI), into other hits of DB (third hit forward is a kill, third hit down is a meteor). Also, I hear wavebounce DB can be used to fake an approach, but I've never done it successfully, nor have I seen it done.

3. Tech Chasing off a throw depends on the character being thrown. As long as you can guarantee that the opponent wont be able to act before they hit the ground, there are a few things you can try. The first is simply throwing them, trying to predict their tech and following up. If you're going to try this, dash dancing is very useful, but you have to time it well. One method I like to use (but I'm not sure if it is actually legit, or if the people I play with just cant deal with it well) is to Fthrow the follow up with shffl fair. What I find is that if they don't tech, you get a hit without needing to worry about dash dancing around the get up attack. If they tech in place, you generally either get a hit or a grab (depends if they tech through the fair). If they tech roll, you end up basically where they started the roll from, meaning all you need is good reflexes to get a follow up grab. The other options around tech chasing generally require some degree of reading (unless you're doing something like b/d throw to edge of stage to limit their roll options and then pivot grab from there).

Hope this helped a bit. The best way to get to know these moves is to just start trying them out in friendlies wherever possible. You'll soon get the feel for when they're useful and when they are simply inferior options to some of Marth's other moves.

 

[Deleted member]

ftilt is good because it starts low and ends high, unlike fair/fsmash. it has its uses and you should use it.

DB 3rd hit over kills around 100% (kill = actual kill or edge guard w/ this character) and everyone ******* that marth can't kill. 2+2

you're fast and your moves hit everywhere. so yeah marth can tech chase.

the more complicated you make this character the harder he is for no reason. marth is hella simple, you put them somewhere gay and you kill them while they can't do anything. don't make it harder than it needs to be or you'll mess yourself up.

 

[LordShade67]

Oh wow. Those were quick responses. Much appreciated. I'll definitely be messing around more with those options.

 

[Xinc]

Ftilt is good on YS and low platform stages. :o

 

[Oniperson]

Can we talk about this?

http://youtu.be/av2JQO8zuNo?t=10m54s

Like Is that a new thing or has it been around for a while? (I get the impression that it has...)

I think it's cool as piss, situational, hard to pull off and as a result kind of gimmicky, but Cool nonetheless.


Edit: **** Screwed up the youtube link... will fix shortly

 

[SpiderMad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGGHCzl_RMM&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A&feature=c4-overview

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

Those wave bounce nuetral B look good.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Those wave bounce nuetral B look good.

Zelda main (me) asks: Marth has a Love Jump?!
Sorry to interrupt all of your in depth discussion but you have a new main in your midst. I am Paladin, a Zelda main by trade. But taking up Marth. I'm mostly doing this so I have a transfer character between Melee and PM. I usually try to main a character, and their worst MU as well. Now Zelda in my opinion is Marth's best and worst MU, she's the best because Marth can wreck her, but she's the worst because she can transform into Sheik.
Noe, don't worry about leaving me in the dust, I've watched Marth enough to picture what you guys are talking about in my head (mostly).
But what I do need are some things for me to focus on whilst I train. I need some movement help, because that is the one thing that I get confused about when I watch Marth. So, wow me.

 

[LordShade67]

@Above post
Zeik's borked. Nerf her.

Joking around aside, as Marth, Dash Dancing and Wavedashing are the main things you'll be utilizing for Marth movement-wise. You don't run as fast as Sheik, but MUCH faster than as Zelda. With Dash Dancing, as you may know, you get the option of baiting/reacting, etc. Wavedashing for Marth is also universal, both for his spacing and movement.

....Um....Oh yeah. Jump Cancel your grabs. I'm a PM scrub, so the BETTER Marth mains will probably know better, XD

 

[DarkStarStorm]

@Above post
Zeik's borked. Nerf her.

Joking around aside, as Marth, Dash Dancing and Wavedashing are the main things you'll be utilizing for Marth movement-wise. You don't run as fast as Sheik, but MUCH faster than as Zelda. With Dash Dancing, as you may know, you get the option of baiting/reacting, etc. Wavedashing for Marth is also universal, both for his spacing and movement.

....Um....Oh yeah. Jump Cancel your grabs. I'm a PM scrub, so the BETTER Marth mains will probably know better, XD

I'm going to have to practice A LOT.


That was a stupid comment on my part. How good is his Dacus?

 

[SpiderMad]

Youtube chose not to give my video a speed adjustment bar for some reason: so here's this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxOOPwRL_Wk Otherwise try turning this on http://www.youtube.com/html5
Not sure what else I can do to help your movement, besides a better webcam for my hands. Try out the Wifi build of PM and see if you like using the light press air dodge.

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

I'm going to have to practice A LOT.


That was a stupid comment on my part. How good is his Dacus?

Lol. Dacus. Don't push the cstick up until you have an intermediate understanding of marth. Learn the proper tools before learning the mediocre

All you need to know:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PFCQIAnYUMM

 

[LordShade67]

I'm going to have to practice A LOT.


That was a stupid comment on my part. How good is his Dacus?

As Shadow mentioned above, I wouldn't worry with DACUSing. Marth's DACUS is about as hard as, if not harder than Brawl Sheik's, and since Marth's Melee USmash is....poopy, you REALLY have to know where the tipper hitbox is on it to utilize it effectively.