Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[Composeur]

Peach isn't good LOL.

Haha, that means you see druggedfox's point, at least...?

The existence of a player like Armada makes Peach a much more confusing character to analyze. The kid's obviously a genius at seeing behavioral patterns and exploiting them, and Peach happens to be his vehicle. Basically he has to win sets against the top-level competition by outsmarting them, rather than outplaying them (technically), if we're to take Armada at his own word.

The thing is, if we eliminate this one single Peach player from our analyses of tournament results from the last 2 years, both NTSC and PAL, the Fox-Peach match-up ratio being 70/30 becomes quite believable. This would make him the only single player (that I can think of) to have a substantial impact on a high-tier character's success ratio. If you eliminate mango or m2k or jman or even hbox from tournament results, you can still find whatever character they played well-represented elsewhere. But Armada's an anomaly. vanz and macD are great players, but I think we all expect that they wouldn't typically place above m2k and jman in a given tournament.

What's my point here? I don't really know, except that 70/30 only seems laughable because of a single player. So either Armada is really that much of a prodigy, or NO other Peach players play at the same level as those top-tier players. I guess the truth is likely to be somewhere in the middle, as usual. Thoughts?

edit: clarified points

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach is horrible vs Fox.

I don't really care for ratios. It's probably somewhere in the 60-40, 65-35, 70-30 area, though. One of those probably; I know a few people that would lean towards 65-35, though I also know a few that call it 60-40.

 

[TemPesT-]

I wonder if armadas ever gonna play a diff character, like how M2K made the transition from marth to shiek

 

[Tamoo]

Step 1: Shield (this is a bad idea in smash 64, but we aren't here to discuss that)
Step 2: Press any of the 5 variations of the jump button
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: smoke TREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

Hmm u was so sure you couldn't do this in 64, gonna have to try this out when I get back from work

Just tested and it def doesn't work lol

 

[dch111]

What version do you have? It works on mine.

 

[rhan]

Worked for me too.

And about Armada possibly playing another character. I don't think he should. I've noticed that most Peach players just play STRICTLY Peach. Some reason this works for them. Especially if they are really good they can pretty much take on any character with Peach. It's crazy. @_@

 

[unknown522]

IMO:

peach v fox = 4-6
peach v falco = 45-55
peach v sheik = 45-55
peach v marth = 3-7
peach v jiggs = 4-6

 

[mhenlo]

IMO:

peach v fox = 4-6
peach v falco = 45-55
peach v sheik = 45-55
peach v marth = 7-3
peach v jiggs = 4-6

u think peach beats marth? and at 7-3?

 

[unknown522]

oops. Other way around

 

[Tamoo]

Hmm my bad, turns out it does but only when i use a controller lol, my keyboard denies me all oos pleasures lol

 

[asianaussie]

o.o everyone can jump oos in smash 64, I do it all the time on keyboard lol

 

[Armada]

IMO:

peach v fox = 4-6
peach v falco = 45-55
peach v sheik = 45-55
peach v marth = 3-7
peach v jiggs = 4-6

i can´t agree with anything in this post.

I have change my mind with Peach against falco.
55-45 in Peach favor.

Fox is really good against Peach the matchup is at least 65-35 in Fox favor maybe 70-30.


In pal have Peach advantages against Sheik i agree with Amsah there BUT in Ntsc have Sheik advantages 6-4.

The matchup against Marth is not 7-3 in Marths favor.
Marth have better range and he is faster but 7-3 is not even close the truth.

But i willed be more proud if 7-3 was the truth specially when M2k is really good in that matchup.

6-4 is more close to the truth.

The Falcon matchup is really hard to.
I ask Fuzzyness (best Falcon in europe and he have playing alot against Peach) and he said 70-30 but i wanna say 65-35 there.

All of this is in NTSC.

 

[Tamoo]

o.o everyone can jump oos in smash 64, I do it all the time on keyboard lol

I think my keyboard doesn't allow me to press certain combinations of some buttons lol, which would explain why i didn't realise jump oos worked :/

 

[Zoler]

If any Fox were as good at Fox vs Peach as Armada is at Peach vs Fox, Armada would have a really hard time pretty much.

 

[BigWenz]

look at Mango v Armada Pound 4 friendlies... i know their friendlies but i digress once mango realized that Armada was taken dat **** very seriously (read: Armada did some **** combos on battlefield and 3 stocked him) Mango stepped it up and showed why the match up is not fun and really difficult for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkaDMiIpys&feature=related

 

[Archangel]

i can´t agree with anything in this post.

I have change my mind with Peach against falco.
55-45 in Peach favor.

Fox is really good against Peach the matchup is at least 65-35 in Fox favor maybe 70-30.


In pal have Peach advantages against Sheik i agree with Amsah there BUT in Ntsc have Sheik advantages 6-4.

The matchup against Marth is not 7-3 in Marths favor.
Marth have better range and he is faster but 7-3 is not even close the truth.

But i willed be more proud if 7-3 was the truth specially when M2k is really good in that matchup.

6-4 is more close to the truth.

The Falcon matchup is really hard to.
I ask Fuzzyness (best Falcon in europe and he have playing alot against Peach) and he said 70-30 but i wanna say 65-35 there.

All of this is in NTSC.

Falco vs Peach

Based on the current ruleset I think if Peach bans the right stages probably is in her favor slightly imo. So I agree with Armada there.

Fox vs Peach

I think to much of it is based on perfect theory. If the Fox is perfect he will get off on Peach luck her in drill shine combo's and kick her *** pretty bad. However nobody is perfect and Fox's mistakes against peach = a stock usually. Still I'd have to say even with the inconsistencies Fox is probably favored at 60-40 or 65-35...give or take a some points depending on who's playing. If Armada is playing then its 55-45

Sheik vs Peach

Version-Dependant. 45-55 Peach favor in PAL and 55-45 in Sheiks Favor in NTSC.

Marth vs Peach

Assuming both players know the match up well then it's still in Marth's favor but 70-30 is to much.

I'd say it is stage dependent but on average it's 55-45 or 60-40 Marth. On all neutrals except Dream land it's 60-40 in Marth's favor. The counter picks seem to favor Peach to me though. A good/Gay peach can do alot to Marth on DK64 and Brimstar the Lack of Mute City hurts effects peach greatly though. As for Peach vs Marth on Stadium its still 60-40 Marth and on Rainbow Cruise....Who the hell would pick that stage lol.

Jiggs vs Peach

It's in Jiggs Favor 55-45 on average. Against a lucky peach that pulls out stitch-faces and ba-bombs it's even or 45-55 peach. If the Puff is good at spacing aerials and resting it's 60-40 Jiggs which is probably closer to accurate.

Peach vs Falcon.


Even on average so i'll say 50-50. Peach can read-**** Falcon and Falcon can grab-**** peach. Some stages are in Falcon's favor though but a few are good for peach. If I had to lean to one I'd give it to Falcon 55-45. Unless the peach is really good or really experienced in the Match-up or the Falcon isn't really good and has little experience vs Peach then it should be really close though.


My 2 cents.

 

[john!]

falcon and marth are both uphill battles for peach. 60-40 at the very least. fox is the worst though, he is 65 or 70. we already had this discussion i think lol.

 

[t3h Icy]

Hi.

So kind of like this?:

Falcon 55:45 Marth
Falcon 60:40 Peach
Fox 65:35 Peach
Jigglypuff 55:45 Falcon
Jigglypuff 55:45 Peach
Marth 60:40 Peach
Peach 55:45 Falco
Sheik 60:40 Falcon
Sheik 55:45 Peach

I'll update stuff again soon.

EDIT: Regarding the Fox/Peach player match-ups, Vwins did beat Lucky at Genesis.

EDIT 2: Peach/Falco was backwards.

 

[Druggedfox]

Conclusion looks good. Though for the jiggs peach one, did anyone actually say it was 60:40 in jiggs favor? I thought most people said 55-45.

 

[dch111]

Falco 55:45 Peach

Wait, when did it swing in Falco's favor?

 

[unknown522]

i can´t agree with anything in this post.

I have change my mind with Peach against falco.
55-45 in Peach favor.

Fox is really good against Peach the matchup is at least 65-35 in Fox favor maybe 70-30.


In pal have Peach advantages against Sheik i agree with Amsah there BUT in Ntsc have Sheik advantages 6-4.

The matchup against Marth is not 7-3 in Marths favor.
Marth have better range and he is faster but 7-3 is not even close the truth.

But i willed be more proud if 7-3 was the truth specially when M2k is really good in that matchup.

6-4 is more close to the truth.

The Falcon matchup is really hard to.
I ask Fuzzyness (best Falcon in europe and he have playing alot against Peach) and he said 70-30 but i wanna say 65-35 there.

All of this is in NTSC.

I don't understand how marth can be that close, but fox wins less consistently vs peach in tourneys and it's a terrible matchup.

What marth has over fox:

- range
- edgeguarding
- the ability to shut down peach with random swinging (I don't mean him spamming f-smash)
- survivability (peach combos fox much easier)
- priority

Marth just doesn't have a projectile and fox kills her at lower percents more consistently, but it doesn't really matter when he can just keep her out with f-air spam.

Also, let's have some MMs. We have the same housing for APEX.

Marth v peach and fox v peach.

Also, IMO: peach v falcon = 4-6

 

[t3h Icy]

Falco/Peach was backwards.

 

[The Good Doctor]

falcon and marth are both uphill battles for peach. 60-40 at the very least. fox is the worst though, he is 65 or 70. we already had this discussion i think lol.

Didn't we just talk about this John....
Falcon ***** peach.....
I think it's equal to FOXvPEACH

 

[john!]

Didn't we just talk about this John....
Falcon ***** peach.....
I think it's equal to FOXvPEACH

I'm just personally bad at the matchup lol. It may be her second worst, but a good technical Fox can bring more pain to Peach than anyone else without a doubt. It's really bad. Getting steamrolled by PC Chris this weekend only makes me believe it more lmao...

 

[Vyzor]

so whats with the only -1 kirby thing on peach? 0_o sorry to ask, just wondering.

 

[Armada]

unknown522: i will tell you why fox is better against Peach.
-Laser: So gay against Peach.
More guarrante stuff against Peach
- More easy to KO Peach.
- Better oppurtunites to Gimping her
-More fast

Following things is important to know.
- Playing fox against Peach is really hard before you really learn that matchup
- Playing With Marth against Peach is so much easier in the beginning.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ryan- Marth keeping her out with Fair is overrated now. She can get it in with smart use of turnips, and good spacing combined with mindgames.

 

[JPOBS]

people still think peach beats falco wtf?

 

[t3h Icy]

Updated:

Falco 55:45 Peach
Falcon 55:45 Marth
Falcon 60:40 Peach
Fox 65:35 Peach
Jigglypuff 55:45 Falcon
Jigglypuff 55:45 Peach
Marth 60:40 Peach
Sheik 60:40 Falcon
Sheik 55:45 Peach

Inb4****storm. If you guys disagree, just post why and we can continue discussing.

For now, instead of doing Ganon, we'll do some of Sheik's one-sided match-ups:

Sheik vs Pichu
Sheik vs Bowser
Sheik vs Ness
Sheik vs Roy
Sheik vs Yoshi

And while we had mentioned before about the insignificant differences of 85:15 and 80:20, we'll see what we can do, but if we can't get a nice conclusion with hard evidence from both sides, I'll leave them.

I know you guys are tired of continually doing these, especially after more or less completing the advantage style, but I just want the community to have the most accurate chart possible. And again, the numbers won't work out for match-ups like Pikachu vs Mario, etc, but we always have the advantage section done so that everything will at least be within some range of accuracy.

 

[TheManaLord]

why the intervals of five? if we're using 100:0 we should be seeing things like 63:37 , 56:44 , 49:51 etc

by using intervals of five we're essentially using a 0:20 system

 

[unknown522]

unknown522: i will tell you why fox is better against Peach.
-Laser: So gay against Peach.
More guarrante stuff against Peach
- More easy to KO Peach.
- Better oppurtunites to Gimping her
-More fast

Following things is important to know.
- Playing fox against Peach is really hard before you really learn that matchup
- Playing With Marth against Peach is so much easier in the beginning.

Ryan- Marth keeping her out with Fair is overrated now. She can get it in with smart use of turnips, and good spacing combined with mindgames.

we'll see about that.

Also:

Sheik vs Pichu = 9-1
Sheik vs Bowser = 9-1
Sheik vs Ness = 9-1
Sheik vs Roy = 9-1
Sheik vs Yoshi = 9-1

CG is amazing.

 

[JesiahTEG]

All of those ratios are a bit extreme besides Sheik vs Bowser. Roy can definitely win that matchup.

 

[t3h Icy]

why the intervals of five? if we're using 100:0 we should be seeing things like 63:37 , 56:44 , 49:51 etc

by using intervals of five we're essentially using a 0:20 system

Well give me some match-up examples, and if we can all agree, I'll be happy to change them.

 

[JPOBS]

Jigglypuff 55:45 Falcon

im curious bout this, i was under the impression puff had a sizeable advantage in the matchup?

links to any post concerning the matter would be coolbeans

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Even though Sheik is Bowser's second worst matchup, Bowser has some **** stuff on him. When Bowser grabs him with the claw and does the forward throw, Bowser has a guaranteed uair right after that can kill Sheik if he's at 60% or more (depending on the stage). Bowser has a two-hit kill move that works from 0% to low percentage if he claw's Sheik next to the ledge. Bowser can tech chase Sheik as well. Bowser can also get out of Sheik's down throw chain grab if he jumps at perfect frames. The matchup is of course horrible because Bowser sucks but its not 90:10 or something like that lol.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

fox has room for mistakes vs peach. marth doesnt. if marth messes up he either gets dsmashed or dash attack comboed

 

[KirbyKaze]

All of those ratios are a bit extreme besides Sheik vs Bowser. Roy can definitely win that matchup.

I will have you know that Sheik Ness is definitely 9-1. Same with Sheik Pichu.

 

[Kyu Puff]

ICs 45:55 Fox
ICs 50:50 Falco
ICs 45:55 Jiggs
ICs 60:40 Sheik
ICs 40:60 Marth
ICs 55:45 Falcon
ICs 25:75 Peach
ICs 30:70 Ganon

The last two might both be +5 for ICs.

Also, ICs should be > DK. I don't know why you changed it to = on the chart...

 

[Pink Reaper]

Sheik/Kirby is 55:45

This is because Isai almost beat Ken's sheik with Kirby this one time

 

[The Good Doctor]

Sheik/Kirby is 55:45

This is because Isai almost beat Ken's sheik with Kirby this one time

That's **** Head's logic there!