Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[xbombr]

Samus shouldn't be spending much time in her shield against an airborne Marth. That time is better spent dash attacking (if he's doing it predictably), Nairing (if he's predictable AND has bad spacing), or wavedashing or running around to screw up his spacing (if he's properly spaced and hard to predict).

If you're letting Marth FAir your shield repeatedly, then you're not doing it right. Samus should never lock herself down in her shield vs. someone who outranges her UB so easily with their main approach.

I'm not saying that you should NEVER shield, but it shouldn't be overused to the point that you're getting attacks repeatedly spaced on it while you stand there like an idiot until your shield breaks or he forces you to use your extremely punishable roll. Samus has to do a lot of running away in this match up as lame as that sounds just to prevent the situation that describing, Patrack, but that doesn't mean it's any worse than Samus < Marth.

Proper utilization of missiles, your movement, and CC make this match up so much more bearable than anything else in Samus's << range.

 

[t3h Icy]

Just to list everything people have brought up:

Falcon > Marth
Jigglypuff > Marth
Ganon > Marth
Sheik >> Marth
Marth >> Peach
Marth >> ICs
Marth >>> Roy

I thought it was decided that sheik >> Marth

I just left it for now since Marth was the following character, and hopefully we'll get some Marth input.

 

[I.B]

Falcon > Marth, really?

I don't believe it's any harder for Marth than vs Fox/Falco.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Just to list everything people have brought up:

Falcon > Marth
Jigglypuff > Marth
Ganon > Marth
Sheik >> Marth
Marth >> Peach
Marth >> ICs
Marth >>> Roy



I just left it for now since Marth was the following character, and hopefully we'll get some Marth input.

Only ones I'd change are:

Ganon = Marth.
Marth > Peach.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Marth wrecks samus. He can easily lock her down, easier than he can lock down most of the rest of the cast because samus can't go into the air vs him.

Her only real way to get in on marth is to force him to make a mistake, if marth spaces perfectly she won't get in. She can't CC or spotdodge marth. His dtilt beats just about everything samus has on the ground. His fair beats everything she has in the air. He edgeguards her as well as or better than every other character in the game. The only character i think has a better edge guard is sheik because of needling bombs.

To compare how samus plays ganon and samus plays marth and say "marth can't do X" is stupid.

 

[unknown522]

Just to list everything people have brought up:

Falcon > Marth
Jigglypuff > Marth
Ganon > Marth
Sheik >> Marth
Marth >> Peach
Marth >> ICs
Marth >>> Roy

marth does not lose to the first 3.

 

[BBQ°]

Just to list everything people have brought up:

Falcon > Marth
Jigglypuff > Marth
Ganon > Marth
Sheik >> Marth
Marth >> Peach
Marth >> ICs
Marth >>> Roy



I just left it for now since Marth was the following character, and hopefully we'll get some Marth input.

I agree that Falcon beats Marth
I disagree that Jiggs beats Marth. I think it's close to even, most likely in Marth's favor.
Ganon = Marth
Sheik > Marth
Marth > Peach
idk
ya

 

[Pi]

Marth wrecks samus. He can easily lock her down, easier than he can lock down most of the rest of the cast because samus can't go into the air vs him.

Her only real way to get in on marth is to force him to make a mistake, if marth spaces perfectly she won't get in. She can't CC or spotdodge marth. His dtilt beats just about everything samus has on the ground. His fair beats everything she has in the air. He edgeguards her as well as or better than every other character in the game. The only character i think has a better edge guard is sheik because of needling bombs.

To compare how samus plays ganon and samus plays marth and say "marth can't do X" is stupid.

you haven't really said anything in your post.

i've fought this matchup countless times and you can keep restating the same points over and over and over again but the fact still remains that no marth is playing perfectly and it's much easier to mess up their spacing than you seem to think it is.

he can't easily lock her down, if he's going to go on the offensive than you just CC a move and dsmash him, or dtilt him which leads into more hits, and unless he's all over samus 100% of the time she's going to have missiles out there, which unless he wants to power shield them , he has to stop and jab, fair, ftilt, fsmash, of which the last two can get him punished. And if he's throwing out a move to stop another move, whereas samus is free to move around then that's not him controlling the map, it's now in samus's control.

his dtilt, in theory with his ftilt, fsmash, and all the other reach advantage moves he has does beat her, but it doesn't matter when you've shoved a foot in his face before he's got time to dtilt

the reach advantage, i'll say it again, is negligible stop trying to say that just because marth has a longer reach than samus he auto wins, it's not that simple, i've played this matchup for years, with players who have adapted to my playstyle, and i have adapted right back

and tbh i spend too much time in the air as it is, if i really forced myself to stay grounded and camp with ftilts, jabs, cc dsmashs/dtilts and ub out of shield i'd probably do a lot better, but i don't because i like to add a little flavor to my game.

and i don't get where you come off saying she cant CC or spot dodge him, are you talking perfectly spaced moves? again? come off it, nobody spaces perfectly 100% of the time, nobody has even come close, idc who you are, when samus is moving all around wavedashing and jabbing and ftilting you're going to mess up.

and yes in theory the only way to hit fox is to get him to mess up,

stop theorizing.

characters that have better edgeguards on samus than marth:
sheik
ganon
puff
fox

what has marth got to stop samus? 1 shot at a bair?
so all you have to do is go low, that's it, save your jump, grapple low, mission complete you're back on the stage.

to be honest the most successful edgeguard i've gone up against has been when marth stays on the stage after making me lose my grapple, which is a mistake on my part i promise you, and getting a dair that i don't tech.


MARTH > SAMUS

 

[BBQ°]

I've played against Kniht before. He really knows the matchup.

 

[Divinokage]

marth does not lose to the first 3.

You know.. Falcon > Marth can be debatable.. I'm sure some can agree to that but me I don't.. It's probably Falcon = Marth and Ganon = Marth as well.

But Ganon = Marth only if the Marth really knows what to do to edgeguard Ganon, if not he's ****ed in general. Grab combos ftw into outspace =P.

 

[unknown522]

You know.. Falcon > Marth can be debatable.. I'm sure some can agree to that but me I don't.. It's probably Falcon = Marth and Ganon = Marth as well.

But Ganon = Marth only if the Marth really knows what to do to edgeguard Ganon, if not he's ****ed in general. Grab combos ftw into outspace =P.

yeah. I had a part in the post that said "maybe falcon", but then I edited it out. I understand the argument towards falcon > marth, but usually when people post their reasons as to why, they never talk about what marth can do to falcon (M2K for example, and other players).

But yeah, I know what you mean though.

what has marth got to stop samus? 1 shot at a bair?
so all you have to do is go low, that's it, save your jump, grapple low, mission complete you're back on the stage.

What about when marth takes the edge, or spikes her when she goes low? Or takes away her grapple with a f-air, then resumes edgeguarding........

I never have trouble edgeguarding with marth, and I don't even main him....

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

I dunno, the fact that he even mentioned shieldgrabbing in one of his posts kind of discredits him.

The Marths I play with can all punish Samus' slowass grab on reaction, no matter how unpredictable I am when I throw it out, especially the situation knihT mentioned involving Marth shffl'ing a fair into Samus' shield.

It's not theorizing, it's cold hard facts. Samus gets outranged, outprioritized, and outmaneuvered. Your statement that "nobody spaces perfectly 100%" is perfectly correct, but you forget it goes both ways. Unfortunately for us Samus mains, Marth punishes Samus' spacing much harder than vice versa.

You also forget that Marth can keep mobile while slicing through missiles by just shfairing, a relatively unpunishable move. Besides, if you manage to fire off a missile while still being in distance to punish a whiffed shfair, the Marth is doing something wrong.

I think a major part of Samus-Marth is Marth's ability to grab easily while Samus generally lacks the ability to grab, except as a mix-up. This is a huge factor in not only the Marth matchup, but her matchups in general. I swear, if it weren't for Marth's terrible shield, he would be virtually invincible while holding down the shield trigger.

Marth's edgeguard on Samus is not as good as vice versa. This is probably the only substantial advantage Samus has on Marth.

Crouch canceling on Marth with any concept of spacing is usually not a good idea unless he just runs up and dash attacks you or something ********. The key word is usually, as at really low percents, you can CC a fair or something. That's about it for CC'ing, cuz at mid percents, you'll just get combo'd to death for it.

Overall, I think you're thinking of this matchup too one-sidedly. You claim that it's easy to mess up Marth's spacing. While this is true, why can't Marth mess up Samus' spacing? It's not like he really needs to, but he definitely can. You claim that Samus has stage control while there's a missile out. Great, now how about after Marth taps through that pathetic thing with any of his moves? Control of the stage returns to Marth and he is again free to roam the stage.

I suppose it isn't as bad as I think it might be, so I would be okay with Marth > Samus. I can't help but think that your perspective of matchups is a bit flawed by the people you play though, since there are notable Ganons and Jiggs in Florida (Rockcrock and Hbox), but not many named Marths.

Feel free to correct me though.

 

[BBQ°]

QueenDVS from Florida is the best Marth in the Atlantic South.

Skratch and Dark Sonic (also from FL) are right behind him.

As much as I agree with Kniht, I also agree with Patrack. I don't mean to seem like a flip flopper, but like Patrack said, Kniht focused on the Samus side of the matchup, and didn't take much consideration to the Marth side. Patrack basically covered everything Kniht left out.

Also, it's extremely easy to edgeguard Samus with Marth. You just have to be patient.

 

[Pi]

you can shield grab ftilts if you're close
which i said
as well as fsmashes
that's about all you can shieldgrab vs marth


@unkown

if marth is holding onto the ledge, and not releasing, then you grapple him and it hits him or he moves away from hit and you get the edge
if he's refreshing invincibility then you can take a shot at grappling the ledge

if you grapple low and marth has the edge, when you hit a or whatever to pull up on the grapple you are unable to input any action for a certain amount of time, during this time, you hold toward the stage, and press R before you'd be hit by marth. you. will. tech. anything.

EVERY time i do this (at least 90%) i tech marth's dair or fair or whatever the **** he hits me with, and then i UB safely onto the stage.

the only time marth is going to be able to shut down samus recover is if:
1) she doesn't have a grapple
2) she can't ride the wall
good DI, good grapple choices, and saving your jump makes this situation very rare.

i've fought dark sonic, qdvs, and skratch, the matchup is not >>
i am not the smartest samus, but i know the marth matchup

marth can grab samus all he wants, with proper DI you'll get away, or at most eat a fair and get put in a bad spot, which can lead to more hits at lower %'s, but middle and upper %'s unless you panic and start di'ing poorly you should be able to escape without gaining too much %

samus's grabs lead to a hit on marth regardless of di at pretty much every % up till death.

i dont CC a lot, i don't like to do it, i feel there are better options
i don't UB OoS as much as i should for the same reason
but there are times and places for both, knowing when to use them can and will change match control



if you want to know how to edgeguard samus with marth here is what you do:
1) take her grapple
2) sit on the stage and fsmash her or dair her.

this is of course assuming you can take her grapple, and she doesn't sweet spot your fsmash and you space your dair to hit below the stage before she reaches the edge for the tech opportunity.
it's hella easy to tech with samus because most of the time she's riding the wall.

and here's the thing with missiles
you eliminate options with them, then you narrow down the guesses you need to make, hugs recently did that podcast thing where he mentions that everything has a counter, i agree 100%

marth can be mobile while fairing missiles, yes, but where he is going to land is obvious, and he's not putting pressure on you while doing that, during that time you can wavedash toward him

i don't main marth, i play him occasionally, but not enough to really focus on how to beat what samus has, i'm a samus main, my focus is on how to beat what the marth has, so yes i may be coming off 1 sided, but that should tell you something about the the matchup, i've put all my focus into shutting down what marth has, and i've had pretty good success in finding ways around most of the things you are bringing up.

the last things i'll say on the matchup, since it really doesn't affect me 1 way or the other is this:
1) marth does not easily gimp or edgeugard samus, quite the opposite.
2) marth has a slightly easier time controlling the match than samus does (which is where the > comes in)
3) missiles & uncharged shots do not get shut down as easily as you all seem to believe


marth > samus at most

melee is too fast paced to take full advantage of marths reach in this matchup

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Marth can actually dtilt any of samus' recovery options with proper timing.

Samus does have a good recovery because of her grapple, but its not unstoppable. The best 3 edgeguarders on her are sheik, fox and marth.

Sheik can shoot needles all day as samus recovers, and can easily needle her out of her beam. Definitely #1 edge guarder.

Fox can simply refresh invincibility until samus comes back to the stage and then hit samus when she comes near. If she uses the grapple, fox gets a shine spike. If she uses upb, fox does a shine spike or bair. Very solid and nearly impossible to get around unless the fox makes a mistake.

Marth can either stay on the stage or go off to get samus. If she uses the grapple sweetspot you must either have the edge or go off stage. Refreshing invincibility is imperfect for marth, so its much simpler to go off stage. You can hold the edge and when samus does the airdodge drop down and bair her out of it. You can also stand on stage and when you see the airdodge run off fast fall dj fair her away. If she uses upb marth can easily fsmash or dtilt->edgehog it.

On stage, samus really has nothing unless marth is making mistakes. You say its impossible for marth to not make a spacing mistake, but i say thats untrue. Look at m2k or another top marth. They don't space wrong. They won't fair forward when the situation calls for a fair backward or no movement. At lower levels, yes the marth will make mistakes and samus can punish them. At the top level, it wont happen.

As far as missiles go, marth doesn't care about them. If you can even get the space to shoot one (which you shouldn't be able to if marth is playing correctly) marth can choose to do whatever he wants. He can run to any point of the stage and use any move he wants, he can shield, powershield, jump over, counter, spot dodge, roll, or even duck under if you shot a bit high. Samus's use of missiles in other matchups usually comes down to shooting a missile then approaching behind it. Marth is unphased by this, because his aerials easily cut through the missile and whatever approach you want to do.

As for the stage game itself, samus is at a disadvantage at every point. She can't go in the air unless marth is directly above her with no platform or jump. On the ground, she is completely outspaced. BTW samus can only CC a badly spaced fair, correctly spaced there is no possible followup. She can't CC nair (maybe below 10% with bad spacing) dair or bair. As for ground moves, There isn't a single one she can CC and follow up the lag.

For the shield game, marth won't fall into your upb ever. Because of samus' slow grab, marth can basically stand in front of samus' shield and wait because there is nothing she can do. Also, samus' shield options are extremely low, she is basically limited to WD and spotdodge vs marth. While these are fairly sufficient, its not hard to predict and safely punish her next move with such limited options.

Btw you mentioned being able to wall tech edge guards, let me tell you, teching doesnt save you. All it does is delay your death in hope that your opponent will make a mistake.



On a side note, i think marth >>> roy for fairly obvious reasons.

 

[TheManaLord]

Falcon can run and hit her no matter where she is recovering from, ever. Samus' recovery is really overrated!

 

[xbombr]

Marth can actually dtilt any of samus' recovery options with proper timing.

If she uses the grapple sweetspot you must either have the edge or go off stage.

So Dtilt doesn't wreck our recovery? The option that Samus takes 90% of the time isn't covered by it.

Simply shooting a missile can screw with Marth's spacing since he has to stop and attack it, shield it, or jump over it. All of those options have easy counters or put Samus in an advantageous position.

 

[Blackshadow]

Simply shooting a missile can screw with Marth's spacing since he has to stop and attack it, shield it, or jump over it. All of those options have easy counters or put Samus in an advantageous position.

I just had a highly-unwanted flashback to the Zelda vs M2 matchup discussion way back...except this time the characters' involved aren't RETARDEDLY BAD

 

[Roneblaster]

Marth = Falcon

Just because Falcon comboes are sexy, doesnt mean Falcon > Marth. Cause Marth has comboes that are just as good. Not to mention the fact that Falcon has a HELL of a time edgeuarding Marth and Marth can edgeguard Falcon in his sleep.

 

[KirbyKaze]

you can shield grab ftilts if you're close
which i said
as well as fsmashes
that's about all you can shieldgrab vs marth

Why would Marth ever do these moves against Samus when she's grounded?

o.O

 

[xbombr]

I just had a highly-unwanted flashback to the Zelda vs M2 matchup discussion way back...except this time the characters' involved aren't RETARDEDLY BAD

The difference is that Samus has 0 lag on her missile cancels, has much more viable follow ups, and I'm not arguing that it makes it even or in her favor.

Marth goes in his shield against a missile you jab pressure him or grab him. Marth jumps you throw a Nair right under him or dash attack.

Marth's jab is the most limiting option when it comes to missiles, but you have to remember that he's not moving. When you come in behind the missile without running straight into his jab, he'll likely do one of his other moves. His jab isn't some unstoppable force either. When he mixes up his method of destroying missiles, it becomes much harder, but not impossible which is why it's in his favor. His range does in fact beat our projectile as far as damaging him and camping goes, but that doesn't mean it's useless since it still does a great job of facilitating our approach.

This match up is probably as bad as it gets for a <, but there is no way it's even close to being in the same league as Puff, Sheik, and Ganon.

 

[TheManaLord]

That's why the 100:0 method of displaying matchups is best. We can most accurately quantify difficulty of matchups and more easily distinguish them.

 

[N64]

That's why the 100:0 method of displaying matchups is best. We can most accurately quantify difficulty of matchups and more easily distinguish them.

and more endlessly debate them.

 

[Winston]

Marth = Falcon

Just because Falcon comboes are sexy, doesnt mean Falcon > Marth. Cause Marth has comboes that are just as good. Not to mention the fact that Falcon has a HELL of a time edgeuarding Marth and Marth can edgeguard Falcon in his sleep.

Really? Falcon's edgeguarding on Marth isn't nearly as good as Marth's on Falcon, but I think you're exaggerating. Falcon's combos usually take Marth far enough offstage that he can just grab the edge and roll or lightshield edgehog.

 

[TheManaLord]

and more endlessly debate them.

The format for debate is bad. It should be made from a group of qualified panelists.

 

[otg]

The format for debate is bad. It should be made from a group of qualified panelists.

Honestly, if thats the case like NO ONE in this thread should be allowed to contribute to the matchup chart.

I'm still convinced the only way to make an accurate list is to do the following:
1.) get a group of knowledgable people together.
2.) Only do the characters that matter (who gives a **** about y.links matchups?)
3.) If you're going to keep the ">" "=" "<" format, then you shouldn't even bother having a third >>>. If a matchup is even or stage dependent, or like 55:45, it should just be counted as even. Anything between 60:40 - 65:35 (maybe even 70:30) should be >, and anything beyond that >>. There is little point to having the current ">" in the way we use it now.

 

[Pi]

Marth can actually dtilt any of samus' recovery options with proper timing.

Samus does have a good recovery because of her grapple, but its not unstoppable. The best 3 edgeguarders on her are sheik, fox and marth.

Sheik can shoot needles all day as samus recovers, and can easily needle her out of her beam. Definitely #1 edge guarder.

Fox can simply refresh invincibility until samus comes back to the stage and then hit samus when she comes near. If she uses the grapple, fox gets a shine spike. If she uses upb, fox does a shine spike or bair. Very solid and nearly impossible to get around unless the fox makes a mistake.

Marth can either stay on the stage or go off to get samus. If she uses the grapple sweetspot you must either have the edge or go off stage. Refreshing invincibility is imperfect for marth, so its much simpler to go off stage. You can hold the edge and when samus does the airdodge drop down and bair her out of it. You can also stand on stage and when you see the airdodge run off fast fall dj fair her away. If she uses upb marth can easily fsmash or dtilt->edgehog it.

On stage, samus really has nothing unless marth is making mistakes. You say its impossible for marth to not make a spacing mistake, but i say thats untrue. Look at m2k or another top marth. They don't space wrong. They won't fair forward when the situation calls for a fair backward or no movement. At lower levels, yes the marth will make mistakes and samus can punish them. At the top level, it wont happen.

As far as missiles go, marth doesn't care about them. If you can even get the space to shoot one (which you shouldn't be able to if marth is playing correctly) marth can choose to do whatever he wants. He can run to any point of the stage and use any move he wants, he can shield, powershield, jump over, counter, spot dodge, roll, or even duck under if you shot a bit high. Samus's use of missiles in other matchups usually comes down to shooting a missile then approaching behind it. Marth is unphased by this, because his aerials easily cut through the missile and whatever approach you want to do.

As for the stage game itself, samus is at a disadvantage at every point. She can't go in the air unless marth is directly above her with no platform or jump. On the ground, she is completely outspaced. BTW samus can only CC a badly spaced fair, correctly spaced there is no possible followup. She can't CC nair (maybe below 10% with bad spacing) dair or bair. As for ground moves, There isn't a single one she can CC and follow up the lag.

For the shield game, marth won't fall into your upb ever. Because of samus' slow grab, marth can basically stand in front of samus' shield and wait because there is nothing she can do. Also, samus' shield options are extremely low, she is basically limited to WD and spotdodge vs marth. While these are fairly sufficient, its not hard to predict and safely punish her next move with such limited options.

Btw you mentioned being able to wall tech edge guards, let me tell you, teching doesnt save you. All it does is delay your death in hope that your opponent will make a mistake.



On a side note, i think marth >>> roy for fairly obvious reasons.

i took the liberty of striking through all the content that is bull ****.
you're welcome.

Why would Marth ever do these moves against Samus when she's grounded?

o.O

**** happens.



seriously
make the matchup >>>>>>>>>> for all i care
i'll still money match any marth who wants it
space fairs on my **** all day and plow through missiles
edgeguard me flawlessly and make me rue the day i chose to main samus
idk where you got the confidence to tell me what this matchup is but it's unfounded i assure you.

 

[xbombr]

I feel the same way Kniht. lol

I kinda feel like I have to agree with otg though.

>> unwinnable at even skill levels
> disadvantage, but winnable
= even
< advantage, but not guaranteed
<< omg you'll wreck this dude just because of his character

 

[ChivalRuse]

Marth = Falcon

Just because Falcon comboes are sexy, doesnt mean Falcon > Marth. Cause Marth has comboes that are just as good. Not to mention the fact that Falcon has a HELL of a time edgeuarding Marth and Marth can edgeguard Falcon in his sleep.

Falcon can consistently KO Marth at 60-70% with a knee that doesn't hit from the middle of the stage. Raptor boost -> knee, dthrow -> knee, stomp -> knee, or any of his longer uair combos that ends in a knee (even with good DI) can launch Marth far enough offstage to make recovery painfully hard and sometimes impossible.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Falcon can consistently KO Marth at 60-70% with a knee that doesn't hit from the middle of the stage. Raptor boost -> knee, dthrow -> knee, stomp -> knee, or any of his longer uair combos that ends in a knee (even with good DI) can launch Marth far enough offstage to make recovery painfully hard and sometimes impossible.

And Marth can carry Falcon off stage consistantly from 30%-80% with a tipped fair/uair/uptilt/dash attack (lol why?)/upthrow and recovering from off stage with Falcon is always painfully hard or impossible.

Your move.

 

[TheManaLord]

Honestly, if thats the case like NO ONE in this thread should be allowed to contribute to the matchup chart.

Exactly, these topics suck and have always sucked. It's several non-qualified people making massive claims with small random interjections from qualified people.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Falcon kills Marth at pretty low percents. Good luck killing Falcon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHT0JYBWZw#t=3m00s

 

[Charlesz]

I think the marth vs falcon matchup is in falcon's favour. With 55:45 in favour of falcon.

 

[KirbyKaze]

**** happens.

...

Have you ever actually played a good Marth?

 

[Niko45]

Falcon kills Marth at pretty low percents. Good luck killing Falcon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHT0JYBWZw#t=3m00s

lol was I really this bad this recently? I could have killed him like 8 times.

Marth v Falcon is very close to even imo. Neither of them has an approach, Falcon's punish is way better, Marth's edgeguard is way better.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Falcon kills Marth at pretty low percents. Good luck killing Falcon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHT0JYBWZw#t=3m00s

....

You do realize that Falcon would've just died from a variety of moves there regardless of DI right?

And that Marth DI'd the knee pretty much sideways <_<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swR_-Mvlznw#t=9m16s

two can play the youtube game.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Alright guys if we're going to Youtube battle, I say Kirby Marth favours the Kirby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXpbex32c98&feature=related

GET AT ME.

 

[otg]

Alright guys if we're going to Youtube battle, I say Kirby Marth favours the Kirby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXpbex32c98&feature=related

GET AT ME.

Wow kirbykaze is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6cg-WWjiYw

 

[unknown522]

@unkown

if marth is holding onto the ledge, and not releasing, then you grapple him and it hits him or he moves away from hit and you get the edge
if he's refreshing invincibility then you can take a shot at grappling the ledge

but when samus is close enough to grapple the wall, marth can tip his b-air. Even if they trade hits, it's bad for samus. You can also just jump off the stage straight at her with a f-air, because what is she going to hit you with in the air?

if you grapple low and marth has the edge, when you hit a or whatever to pull up on the grapple you are unable to input any action for a certain amount of time, during this time, you hold toward the stage, and press R before you'd be hit by marth. you. will. tech. anything.

EVERY time i do this (at least 90%) i tech marth's dair or fair or whatever the **** he hits me with, and then i UB safely onto the stage.

wall-teching is legit, but even when you do tech, she has this huge landing lag when she lands on the stage. You can easily just hit her back off with an f-smash. If you go back for the ledge, then he can tip her out of that.

the only time marth is going to be able to shut down samus recover is if:
1) she doesn't have a grapple
2) she can't ride the wall
good DI, good grapple choices, and saving your jump makes this situation very rare.

players patient enough will take away those options. That's how you're supposed to edgeguard her. What's worse is that, once you get rid of the grapple, then you can f-smash her over and over. Even if she techs. If you miss at some point, then she's back on the stage with huge damage.

i've fought dark sonic, qdvs, and skratch, the matchup is not >>
i am not the smartest samus, but i know the marth matchup

QDVS is legit.

marth can grab samus all he wants, with proper DI you'll get away, or at most eat a fair and get put in a bad spot, which can lead to more hits at lower %'s, but middle and upper %'s unless you panic and start di'ing poorly you should be able to escape without gaining too much %

marth should be keeping her in the air with his sword. She's really floaty, and her air mobility kind of sucks. Even if she air-dodges, or DJ, then marth will land first. I guess if you get hit by a bomb, then she will get away.

samus's grabs lead to a hit on marth regardless of di at pretty much every % up till death.

i dont CC a lot, i don't like to do it, i feel there are better options
i don't UB OoS as much as i should for the same reason
but there are times and places for both, knowing when to use them can and will change match control

if you want to know how to edgeguard samus with marth here is what you do:
1) take her grapple
2) sit on the stage and fsmash her or dair her.

this is of course assuming you can take her grapple, and she doesn't sweet spot your fsmash and you space your dair to hit below the stage before she reaches the edge for the tech opportunity.
it's hella easy to tech with samus because most of the time she's riding the wall.

what you can also do (just like with every other character, is to hold the ledge if she sweetspots the grapple. Let her go up, then jump with her and hit with an aerial to send her back off. You can do it to link too. Her grapple is slower than link's as well, so it's much easier to see coming.


I'll say this though: her ground game is pretty good vs marth. She can compete with his range with her f-tilt/f-smash/d-smash, which is really nice.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Alright guys if we're going to Youtube battle, I say Kirby Marth favours the Kirby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXpbex32c98&feature=related

GET AT ME.

Wow kirbykaze is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6cg-WWjiYw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3A7niMssfs

My god the evidence just keeps pouring in!

Oh well it doesnt matter anyways since Kirby is banned in melee.