-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
- Matchup Rediscussions #1: read last post
- Thread starter Kataefi
- Start date
- Status
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
even so. I like it better. consider RB's the discussion thread and this one the.... actually look at the OP thread
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
yeah. Royal's is pretty but barely functional because there's so much scroling
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
fair enough! though I seem to remember a few of us, like me and ninjalink petitioning for peach to be considered advantaged against Zelda... we'l see if that changes
sonic I think i've figured out peach. It's a long and annoying process but it can work. I have matches recorded with rickerdy from the peach boards and he's the best peach I've actually played. Granted this is wifi, but with a green connection xD, no lag or delay.
I really do think this is 55:45 peach, Zelda can do stuff to peach that wrecks. Plus didn't NL figure the matchup out and 2 stock D1's peach in the end on FD?
I really do think this is 55:45 peach, Zelda can do stuff to peach that wrecks. Plus didn't NL figure the matchup out and 2 stock D1's peach in the end on FD?
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
still... I think a defensive peach is just too good against Zelda. was rickerdy playing defensively?
I just don't find peach any easier than Marth... who IS a 60:40
he was baiting me a lot... he never rushed in. It was constant turnip throwing, I would shield, he would rush in and attack, normally a pivot grab, fair or even a sh dair to punish my spotdodging.
He would poke me with Fair to double slaps because that's completely safe. But I figured something out - she can't touch you if you roll behind or away from her Fair. And the roll puts in your FSmash's range. She can't pressure with slaps or glide-tossed approaches. There was once where she was at 33% and she got me up to 120%, and her Fair appears very telegraphed. I rolled each time the fair came and took her to around 100% before she managed to KO me. Then I'd respawn her and ko her, and it would go even.
He would use dair OoS that would throw me off.
He wrecked my recovery. Peach can really punish Zelda there. I didn't have a chance to land LKs, I hardly used Din's. I racked damage with USmash and Fsmash and killed with Utilt, it trades with her Fair, so it's useful when she's at higher percents. Her Fair will not likely kill as much as Zelda's Utilt.
He would normally get the first kill on me, but I realised that Zelda can comeback quite well. With your invincibility at the start you can catch her usmash or whatever and it will normally kill her, bringing the match to about even again.
He would poke me with Fair to double slaps because that's completely safe. But I figured something out - she can't touch you if you roll behind or away from her Fair. And the roll puts in your FSmash's range. She can't pressure with slaps or glide-tossed approaches. There was once where she was at 33% and she got me up to 120%, and her Fair appears very telegraphed. I rolled each time the fair came and took her to around 100% before she managed to KO me. Then I'd respawn her and ko her, and it would go even.
He would use dair OoS that would throw me off.
He wrecked my recovery. Peach can really punish Zelda there. I didn't have a chance to land LKs, I hardly used Din's. I racked damage with USmash and Fsmash and killed with Utilt, it trades with her Fair, so it's useful when she's at higher percents. Her Fair will not likely kill as much as Zelda's Utilt.
He would normally get the first kill on me, but I realised that Zelda can comeback quite well. With your invincibility at the start you can catch her usmash or whatever and it will normally kill her, bringing the match to about even again.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
even with that consideration, if peach keeps killing you first, peach will keep winning 
I mean I guess it's just a matter of where we draw the line. we both agree it's peach's match to lose, we just disagree on whether it's BARELY peach's matc to lose or if she has an easier time of it.
I mean I guess it's just a matter of where we draw the line. we both agree it's peach's match to lose, we just disagree on whether it's BARELY peach's matc to lose or if she has an easier time of it.
It was hard, but it all depends on the last stock. I'd live up to much later percents than she would live up to, and on the last stock I could manage to ko her. The games were really tight. But truthfully he would normally get the final blow on me, but that was desperation on my part trying my hardest to ko him first.
Avoid fair with your life and the match can be yours. But this is far easier said than done. It's definitely peach's match to lose, but if Zelda breaks normal habits and tracks her movements, then there's only so much peach can bait.
Marth on the other hand has moves that Zelda has no answer to, such Fair approaches. This is why he's 60:40, Zelda actually has answers to Peach's moveset, so if we talk about the character and not the player, then I'd go with 55:45 peach, 60:40 marth.
Avoid fair with your life and the match can be yours. But this is far easier said than done. It's definitely peach's match to lose, but if Zelda breaks normal habits and tracks her movements, then there's only so much peach can bait.
Marth on the other hand has moves that Zelda has no answer to, such Fair approaches. This is why he's 60:40, Zelda actually has answers to Peach's moveset, so if we talk about the character and not the player, then I'd go with 55:45 peach, 60:40 marth.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I generally have worse times with peach than with marth. peach seems to have a nice time exploiting us that marth doesn't, Marth just has good moves, but peach can actually counter us somewhat with her playstyle.
marth is just a good opponent, peach is actually somewhat built to handel us
marth is just a good opponent, peach is actually somewhat built to handel us
Perhaps!
A match that requires one opponent to bait is so hard to define, because baiting is a player trait, not a character trait. How good someone baits as Peach determines how well they're built to handle us as Zelda. Peach can get wrecked severely once Zelda successfully tracks her movements and patterns, but in contrast Peach can mix things up. It's all about Peach's bait and Zelda's tracking, which are player traits.
I didn't try LKs though (I was too scared), and they ko peach somewhat very early. I've been studying NL and read something from DM that it's potentially easy to sweetspot her if you memorise her comfort float height. But this is risky =(
A match that requires one opponent to bait is so hard to define, because baiting is a player trait, not a character trait. How good someone baits as Peach determines how well they're built to handle us as Zelda. Peach can get wrecked severely once Zelda successfully tracks her movements and patterns, but in contrast Peach can mix things up. It's all about Peach's bait and Zelda's tracking, which are player traits.
I didn't try LKs though (I was too scared), and they ko peach somewhat very early. I've been studying NL and read something from DM that it's potentially easy to sweetspot her if you memorise her comfort float height. But this is risky =(
Okay so this is the first summary I have written and its on peach because that's the most recent match I played. PLEASE hit me if I've written anything completely wrong 
or feel free to take this and change parts of it, rewrite your own summary or whatever, I don't really care, as long as we know how we can win, then whatever achieves this best is the way forward. I'm gonna place this in the OP just to see how it looks.
OVERVIEW
Peach cannot approach Zelda as she would the majority of the cast. Her float approaches are hampered by Zelda’s USmash. Instead she’ll try to bait Zelda into making mistakes, and punish her severely afterwards. Once Zelda makes a mistake, Peach’s Dair combos arrive at early percents, getting a quick 40+% lead. After further pokes, Peach will be attempting to get Zelda off-stage with a variety of moves that achieve this – Fair, Nair, FSmash and some throws all do this. Once Zelda is off-stage, Peach can wait by the ledge to hog it, or float in the general area where Zelda will teleport to. In either case, Peach will be punishing Zelda’s recovery very easily this way. Additionally, Peach’s USmash outprioritises the hitbox of Farore’s on arrival, however this may be tricky for her to time.
Peach can feel the pressure if her baits are failing to work on Zelda. If Zelda is keeping up with damage percents, or even leading, then Peach is at a loss, as Zelda has much stronger kill power. In this instance, Peach will be attempting to mix things up dramatically with random movements here and there and looking for opportunities to attack safely.
MOVES TO WATCH OUT FOR
FAIR
Fair is her primary killing move. It hits on frame 16, so is quite lengthy, yet it has excellent priority, range and knockback. It can be auto-cancelled so that it is lagless when it hits the ground. This allows Peach to immediately follow up with another attack. When auto-cancelled, it cannot be punished. It gives Peach a -2 frame advantage, and Zelda doesn’t have a 2 frame attack or under to hit Peach before Peach makes her next move. This gives Peach free and safe shield stun on Zelda if Fair connects. Follow-ups from Fair include her two jab combo, her grab, or a jab-cancelled grab (she slaps and then grabs), or possibly a glide tossed turnip amongst many others.
- ROLL AWAY OR BEHIND HER when you see it coming. Don’t shield, don’t spotdodge, or you will be punished by either it or her follow-ups. Rolling away allows you to miss the attack plus all follow-ups from this attack, and puts Peach in Zelda’s range for a potential FSmash. You can shield from your roll enough to avoid a glide toss follow-up as well.
- You might have the chance to interrupt her with a Nair or USmash or an attack that is primarily faster than that 16 frame hit. This is very risky.
- Remember, Zelda’s Utilt trades with her Fair. Utilt is almost double in power and will guarantee the KO on Peach unstaled at around 110% with DI, possibly even earlier. Make this tradeoff as her Fair is most likely to be stale.
DAIR
This is her main combo move. It chains together from the float and links to so many other attacks at lower percents. It hits 4 times, and there is a slight delay before her next attack comes out after the 4th kick.
- Angle your shield upwards and count the number of kicks she does. After 4 kicks, USmash if she’s above you. DO NOT USMASH IF SHE’S NOT IN RANGE. She can float Dair across you and on the 4th kick she can simply get out of range of Zelda.
TURNIPS
Peach’s quasi-projectile. It can be glide-tossed to extend its reach. Without the glide-toss, it doesn’t have enough range to threaten Zelda. Pay attention to the faces on this turnip. The majority won’t have many special effects, however beware of the dot-eyed and stitchface turnips, they will deal significantly more damage and knockback, particularly stitchface.
- There’s no point in attempting to reflect it with Nayru’s. Instead choose to airdodge, spotdodge or Nair instead. Nair has a long duration and will catch turnips easily if they are thrown at you. Once a turnip is in your possession, remember that you have glide-toss approaches as well, most notably forward glide-toss to USmash.
WHAT CAN ZELDA DO?
Watch Peach very carefully. Track her movement both on ground and in the air, and seek opportunities to rack up damage with USmash. She will be trying to bait you with turnips and float mixups – falling for these baits is ultimately how she will win against you. The match becomes even when you learn her patterns and remain difficult to bait.
Don’t let her inside your range with auto-cancelled aerials. Move out of range of Fair and she won’t be able to follow-up successfully. Jab can be useful in stopping some of her float approaches also, due to its hitbox height. Avoid her Dair by shielding and punishing afterwards. You can shield and roll to get away, or simply punish her with USmash after the 4th kick. Interrupt her float with your frame 6 Nair, it’s very handy at making her get away from you. As a sidenote, USmash and Utilt trade with all of Peach’s aerials, ALL OF THEM! Utilt is the better trade off because of its insane power. To kill Peach quickly it may be very wise to make this tradeoff if both of you are at higher percents, as most likely Peach will be the one to die first.
Dtilt > Utilt setup works against Peach effectively on Final Destination at around 90+%. The undecayed Dtilt will have a chance at popping her up more consistently around this percent with enough hitstun for a follow-up, such as Utilt. Keep in mind, Dtilt can start locking Peach at around 50%.
DO NOT USE DIN’S. Only use it to pressure her recovery when she’s really far away from you. Her aerials cancel out Din’s so remember this.
Her float recovery can be sourspotted with Dair, and this has the opportunity to kill her considering she lacks vertical height. Of course, a sweetspotted guarantees death on her. It is easy to sweetspot Peach when she floats as she travels on one axis of movement. However, it difficult to land kicks in general as Peach protects herself very well. But, the moment Peach reaches 70+%, she can be KO’d by Lightning Kicks with DI. Always be on the lookout for chances to sweetspot her. Peach can be Fair’d or Bair’d OoS by Zelda, so remember this if she gets too close to you.
STAGES
Take Peach to Distant Planet if it isn’t banned. The layout effectively hampers her float approaches and makes it difficult to bait Zelda in general. The toys can be used against her for glide toss approaches, and Zelda has excellent glide toss options. As Peach is mainly a horizontal killer, she’ll struggle with achieving kills on this stage, the landscape is long (though careful on the left part of the stage). Zelda’s vertical kills are more effective on this stage than Peach’s horizontal kills.
If Distant Planet is banned, counterpick Corneria. Zelda kills unbelievably well on this stage, and again the layout makes it difficult for Peach to really get close to Zelda.
MATCHUP RATIO
Zelda 45 : 55 Peach
or feel free to take this and change parts of it, rewrite your own summary or whatever, I don't really care, as long as we know how we can win, then whatever achieves this best is the way forward. I'm gonna place this in the OP just to see how it looks.OVERVIEW
Peach cannot approach Zelda as she would the majority of the cast. Her float approaches are hampered by Zelda’s USmash. Instead she’ll try to bait Zelda into making mistakes, and punish her severely afterwards. Once Zelda makes a mistake, Peach’s Dair combos arrive at early percents, getting a quick 40+% lead. After further pokes, Peach will be attempting to get Zelda off-stage with a variety of moves that achieve this – Fair, Nair, FSmash and some throws all do this. Once Zelda is off-stage, Peach can wait by the ledge to hog it, or float in the general area where Zelda will teleport to. In either case, Peach will be punishing Zelda’s recovery very easily this way. Additionally, Peach’s USmash outprioritises the hitbox of Farore’s on arrival, however this may be tricky for her to time.
Peach can feel the pressure if her baits are failing to work on Zelda. If Zelda is keeping up with damage percents, or even leading, then Peach is at a loss, as Zelda has much stronger kill power. In this instance, Peach will be attempting to mix things up dramatically with random movements here and there and looking for opportunities to attack safely.
MOVES TO WATCH OUT FOR
FAIR
Fair is her primary killing move. It hits on frame 16, so is quite lengthy, yet it has excellent priority, range and knockback. It can be auto-cancelled so that it is lagless when it hits the ground. This allows Peach to immediately follow up with another attack. When auto-cancelled, it cannot be punished. It gives Peach a -2 frame advantage, and Zelda doesn’t have a 2 frame attack or under to hit Peach before Peach makes her next move. This gives Peach free and safe shield stun on Zelda if Fair connects. Follow-ups from Fair include her two jab combo, her grab, or a jab-cancelled grab (she slaps and then grabs), or possibly a glide tossed turnip amongst many others.
• How to deal with this move?
- ROLL AWAY OR BEHIND HER when you see it coming. Don’t shield, don’t spotdodge, or you will be punished by either it or her follow-ups. Rolling away allows you to miss the attack plus all follow-ups from this attack, and puts Peach in Zelda’s range for a potential FSmash. You can shield from your roll enough to avoid a glide toss follow-up as well.
- You might have the chance to interrupt her with a Nair or USmash or an attack that is primarily faster than that 16 frame hit. This is very risky.
- Remember, Zelda’s Utilt trades with her Fair. Utilt is almost double in power and will guarantee the KO on Peach unstaled at around 110% with DI, possibly even earlier. Make this tradeoff as her Fair is most likely to be stale.
DAIR
This is her main combo move. It chains together from the float and links to so many other attacks at lower percents. It hits 4 times, and there is a slight delay before her next attack comes out after the 4th kick.
• How to deal with this move?
- Angle your shield upwards and count the number of kicks she does. After 4 kicks, USmash if she’s above you. DO NOT USMASH IF SHE’S NOT IN RANGE. She can float Dair across you and on the 4th kick she can simply get out of range of Zelda.
TURNIPS
Peach’s quasi-projectile. It can be glide-tossed to extend its reach. Without the glide-toss, it doesn’t have enough range to threaten Zelda. Pay attention to the faces on this turnip. The majority won’t have many special effects, however beware of the dot-eyed and stitchface turnips, they will deal significantly more damage and knockback, particularly stitchface.
• How to deal with this move?
- There’s no point in attempting to reflect it with Nayru’s. Instead choose to airdodge, spotdodge or Nair instead. Nair has a long duration and will catch turnips easily if they are thrown at you. Once a turnip is in your possession, remember that you have glide-toss approaches as well, most notably forward glide-toss to USmash.
WHAT CAN ZELDA DO?
Watch Peach very carefully. Track her movement both on ground and in the air, and seek opportunities to rack up damage with USmash. She will be trying to bait you with turnips and float mixups – falling for these baits is ultimately how she will win against you. The match becomes even when you learn her patterns and remain difficult to bait.
Don’t let her inside your range with auto-cancelled aerials. Move out of range of Fair and she won’t be able to follow-up successfully. Jab can be useful in stopping some of her float approaches also, due to its hitbox height. Avoid her Dair by shielding and punishing afterwards. You can shield and roll to get away, or simply punish her with USmash after the 4th kick. Interrupt her float with your frame 6 Nair, it’s very handy at making her get away from you. As a sidenote, USmash and Utilt trade with all of Peach’s aerials, ALL OF THEM! Utilt is the better trade off because of its insane power. To kill Peach quickly it may be very wise to make this tradeoff if both of you are at higher percents, as most likely Peach will be the one to die first.
Dtilt > Utilt setup works against Peach effectively on Final Destination at around 90+%. The undecayed Dtilt will have a chance at popping her up more consistently around this percent with enough hitstun for a follow-up, such as Utilt. Keep in mind, Dtilt can start locking Peach at around 50%.
DO NOT USE DIN’S. Only use it to pressure her recovery when she’s really far away from you. Her aerials cancel out Din’s so remember this.
Her float recovery can be sourspotted with Dair, and this has the opportunity to kill her considering she lacks vertical height. Of course, a sweetspotted guarantees death on her. It is easy to sweetspot Peach when she floats as she travels on one axis of movement. However, it difficult to land kicks in general as Peach protects herself very well. But, the moment Peach reaches 70+%, she can be KO’d by Lightning Kicks with DI. Always be on the lookout for chances to sweetspot her. Peach can be Fair’d or Bair’d OoS by Zelda, so remember this if she gets too close to you.
STAGES
Take Peach to Distant Planet if it isn’t banned. The layout effectively hampers her float approaches and makes it difficult to bait Zelda in general. The toys can be used against her for glide toss approaches, and Zelda has excellent glide toss options. As Peach is mainly a horizontal killer, she’ll struggle with achieving kills on this stage, the landscape is long (though careful on the left part of the stage). Zelda’s vertical kills are more effective on this stage than Peach’s horizontal kills.
If Distant Planet is banned, counterpick Corneria. Zelda kills unbelievably well on this stage, and again the layout makes it difficult for Peach to really get close to Zelda.
MATCHUP RATIO
Zelda 45 : 55 Peach
Luthien
Smash Ace
Nice. There's nothing in there that I can see as flat out wrong. Good job.
What do you guys think of using nair/fair/bair to scare off Peach's fair approaches? I just find that only using usmash decays the move a lot and it makes me too predictable. I don't so much mean nair/fair/bair as I do any of Zelda's other moves in general (I also use Din's to stop lazy float approaches).
And as long as I'm inquiring, how can I use uair in this matchup? Peach spends a lot of time in the air, and I figure finding a way to land a uair would really keep her on her toes. Anyone know if sh-uair is viable?
What do you guys think of using nair/fair/bair to scare off Peach's fair approaches? I just find that only using usmash decays the move a lot and it makes me too predictable. I don't so much mean nair/fair/bair as I do any of Zelda's other moves in general (I also use Din's to stop lazy float approaches).
And as long as I'm inquiring, how can I use uair in this matchup? Peach spends a lot of time in the air, and I figure finding a way to land a uair would really keep her on her toes. Anyone know if sh-uair is viable?
The one move that gives Peach the advantage in this matchup is Fair. She can get free shield pressure and autocancels into an overwhelming amount of followups. She'll concentrate hitting with this move and baiting you with it loads, so SHuairs are tricky because Fair range means she'll float roughly above your head, and that's not enough to rely on uair. I think Uthrow sets it up very nicely though, and also when she floats back, sometimes you can drop below ledge and uair her.
But... I think Zelda's underrated move Utilt is the finisher here. It trades with all her aerials. I now simply spam USmash, FSmash, jab and dtilt, maybe FW to rack up damage, and kill with Utilt. It's quite effective.
Also... LKs are seriously good, but I'm too scared to use them in case I make a mistake. This is something I need serious practise on to reach a level where I'm consistently getting them. I read that peach is easy to sweetspot because she stays on one axis of movement during the float. If you can predict her height, then sweetspotting is easy, actually getting through her aerial defence though is a whole other story.
I added Ninjalink videos to the summary. And yeah nair is very good! But only good when you get her before her dair or fair start, all her other aerials beat it out in frame speed.
But... I think Zelda's underrated move Utilt is the finisher here. It trades with all her aerials. I now simply spam USmash, FSmash, jab and dtilt, maybe FW to rack up damage, and kill with Utilt. It's quite effective.
Also... LKs are seriously good, but I'm too scared to use them in case I make a mistake. This is something I need serious practise on to reach a level where I'm consistently getting them. I read that peach is easy to sweetspot because she stays on one axis of movement during the float. If you can predict her height, then sweetspotting is easy, actually getting through her aerial defence though is a whole other story.
I added Ninjalink videos to the summary. And yeah nair is very good! But only good when you get her before her dair or fair start, all her other aerials beat it out in frame speed.
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,861
- NNID
- RicardoAvocado
I've played Kataefi quite a lot recently and I'd have to agree on the match up being slightly in Peach's favour. The very large majority of the matches were very close
Going agressive with Zelda is a very very bad idea because Peach can combo the hell out of you and Zelda doesn't have fast attacks to get her out of a pickle unlike Peach who has jab, a counter and good aerials. Dairs --> aerials/Up Tilt work on Zelda but not as much as they would do on other characters because she's so floatly. When Kata went defensive in our matches, things got a hell of a lot harder for me. It's probably the most defensive I've ever had to play
Floating Dairs are seriously gimped in this matchup because of Zelda's Up Smash which is an evil move and will knock Peach out of pretty much all of her aerials expect a well spaced Fair. Zelda's F Smash is irritating to get past and the constant threat of her Up Smash mean that Floating approaches are severly limited. Fortunetly, Peach's Nair stops Din's Fire and Toad can stop it as well. I've found Toad can be quite useful for avoiding Up Smashes when falling back down/recovering
I don't know if it's just my playstyle but I found that baiting Zelda into things worked best. Baiting an Up Smash and hitting her with a 2nd jumped back Fair, baiting the F Smash and punishing with Peach Bomber, grabbing her to punish her rolling...playing defensive was the only way to win. Turnip use was crucial followed up by aerials and the like (e.g. jab) for shield pressure
Zelda's recovery is...pretty bad vs Peach. Edgeguarding or punishing Zelda's Up + B with just about anything isn't very difficult
I found myself using Fair and Turnips a lot. I only use Dairs when I could get them in and the majority of the time, they were OoS SH Dairs because setting up a Float close by usually meant getting a delicious Up Smash in my face
Going agressive with Zelda is a very very bad idea because Peach can combo the hell out of you and Zelda doesn't have fast attacks to get her out of a pickle unlike Peach who has jab, a counter and good aerials. Dairs --> aerials/Up Tilt work on Zelda but not as much as they would do on other characters because she's so floatly. When Kata went defensive in our matches, things got a hell of a lot harder for me. It's probably the most defensive I've ever had to play
Floating Dairs are seriously gimped in this matchup because of Zelda's Up Smash which is an evil move and will knock Peach out of pretty much all of her aerials expect a well spaced Fair. Zelda's F Smash is irritating to get past and the constant threat of her Up Smash mean that Floating approaches are severly limited. Fortunetly, Peach's Nair stops Din's Fire and Toad can stop it as well. I've found Toad can be quite useful for avoiding Up Smashes when falling back down/recovering
I don't know if it's just my playstyle but I found that baiting Zelda into things worked best. Baiting an Up Smash and hitting her with a 2nd jumped back Fair, baiting the F Smash and punishing with Peach Bomber, grabbing her to punish her rolling...playing defensive was the only way to win. Turnip use was crucial followed up by aerials and the like (e.g. jab) for shield pressure
Zelda's recovery is...pretty bad vs Peach. Edgeguarding or punishing Zelda's Up + B with just about anything isn't very difficult
I found myself using Fair and Turnips a lot. I only use Dairs when I could get them in and the majority of the time, they were OoS SH Dairs because setting up a Float close by usually meant getting a delicious Up Smash in my face
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,861
- NNID
- RicardoAvocado
He he he :D
Yea, if Peach predicts where Zelda's Up + B is going, be prepared for a world of hurt
Yea, if Peach predicts where Zelda's Up + B is going, be prepared for a world of hurt
Villi
Smash Lord
I personally think Frigate is a better pick against IC. That big dip in that second stage transformation screws with them. Battlefield platforms aren't really much of an obstacle for them.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Oh god, Battlefield? Don't do that. They don't even need to CG to do nasty things with the platforms.
Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, and maybe Frigate are better than that.
Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, and maybe Frigate are better than that.
Villi
Smash Lord
I get Norfair and Frigate confused. *edits post*
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Well it depends on what Zelda players think is best for them.
Now that I think about it, I'm leaning towards Frigate, because Norfair still provides the platforms that the ICs can use to their advantage.
Now that I think about it, I'm leaning towards Frigate, because Norfair still provides the platforms that the ICs can use to their advantage.
Just out of curiosity, why would Frigate be a solid counterpick?
I'm thinking pokemon stadium 2 because the change in layouts severely hampers their chaingrabbing across the stage and nana can get easily trapped in small pitholes in different stage layouts, like the windmill or the rock layout.
I'm thinking pokemon stadium 2 because the change in layouts severely hampers their chaingrabbing across the stage and nana can get easily trapped in small pitholes in different stage layouts, like the windmill or the rock layout.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
PS2 is usually completely banned or close to it. Frigate's more likely to be available.
Frigate is solid because the second part of it has those slopes which make it even harder for the two of them to chainthrow Zelda and the turning can interrupt a combo for what it's worth. Same can be said for Norfair and Rainbow Cruise, but I guess it depends on what the Zelda thinks is best.
What about Delfino?
Frigate is solid because the second part of it has those slopes which make it even harder for the two of them to chainthrow Zelda and the turning can interrupt a combo for what it's worth. Same can be said for Norfair and Rainbow Cruise, but I guess it depends on what the Zelda thinks is best.
What about Delfino?
Apparently it's quite a bad stage for her, but only during the moving parts. Thinking about it more it may be quite good... the changing layouts mess up chaingrabs.
Perhaps corneria could be good? She'll kill at least one of them very soon there before they kill her.
Perhaps corneria could be good? She'll kill at least one of them very soon there before they kill her.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Maybe. I'm not too knowledgeable on that one.
Villi
Smash Lord
Icecubes can't climb up the hill on Frigate. That's just for the lulz.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Powersheilding icecubes has always worked fine for me.
Just as a note, the IC player has limited control over nana, no matter how skilled their are. There are lots of times when you can sweetspot the hooker in the face and not much can be done about it. ICs are very easily spiked imo.
Just as a note, the IC player has limited control over nana, no matter how skilled their are. There are lots of times when you can sweetspot the hooker in the face and not much can be done about it. ICs are very easily spiked imo.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
also if ICs ever need to use upB on the ungrabable platform, it separates them and gives you a free hit at on of them. Depending on damages you could uair kill popo, or you could Dsmash kill nana
goodkid
Smash Lord
The IC match-up is decent, I haven't checked the ratio, but the only experience I have is online, & Zelda does pretty well, I was playing on Lylat, & spaced myself well w/F-smash, & Nana is usually non-existent in this game, but ICs can do weird things w/Up-B to keep her.
Just out of curiosity - is this thread in anyways helpful to zelda mainers? If so I'll continue writing up some more summaries of matchups we've already discussed? Unless someone has enough experience to write there own!
Like red bandit... would you be willing to right the ROB matchup? Just look at the OP and go from there! It doesn't have to be long, just enough so that people get an understanding of what to do in the matchup.
Like red bandit... would you be willing to right the ROB matchup? Just look at the OP and go from there! It doesn't have to be long, just enough so that people get an understanding of what to do in the matchup.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
yeah. I like it much better than RB's version. it's more readable, more up to date and more accurate.
Okay... so I might write up the jiggs matchup now considering it's all fresh in everyone's minds after a little debate, so expect it coming.
Link is here for those that missed over at the jiggs boards: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212571
Also... I have videos of my Zelda =( (a bad bad Zelda at that), but I can't upload them. Can anyone do this for me? Greyfox! I remember you saying you possibly could =D
EDIT:: It's up!
Link is here for those that missed over at the jiggs boards: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212571
Also... I have videos of my Zelda =( (a bad bad Zelda at that), but I can't upload them. Can anyone do this for me? Greyfox! I remember you saying you possibly could =D
EDIT:: It's up!
Bandit
Smash Lord
I will gladly write up ROB. I'll get on this and get it up as soon as I can. Do you want me to post it here or send it in a PM?
Kataefi, I like this thread a lot more than RB's. I am not into flashy, huge pictures to try and show the character or stage with ZERO information on the matchup other than the ratios. He could at least link to the spot where the discussion starts since he isn't writing up the summaries like you. When this is more developed, I anticipate it being the better reference tool (I already believe it is now, but you get what I mean).
Kataefi, I like this thread a lot more than RB's. I am not into flashy, huge pictures to try and show the character or stage with ZERO information on the matchup other than the ratios. He could at least link to the spot where the discussion starts since he isn't writing up the summaries like you. When this is more developed, I anticipate it being the better reference tool (I already believe it is now, but you get what I mean).
Good stuff! i think royal wanted matchup discussions only, whereas this one is like a directory. But yeah I'll link to royal's thread where all the discussions begin.
I'll get cracking on this to make it better. Suggestions are always welcome!
And thanks so much for doing the writeup! Just post it here and I'll quote you in the OP. Don't worry about layout - I'll do all that! Just split the summary into sections like the ones on the OP and you'll be sorted =)
I'll get cracking on this to make it better. Suggestions are always welcome!
And thanks so much for doing the writeup! Just post it here and I'll quote you in the OP. Don't worry about layout - I'll do all that! Just split the summary into sections like the ones on the OP and you'll be sorted =)
- Status