fox vs falco is def madd even lol. at most is is 51-49 on fox's favor. but thats just me. shiz would post the same thing. fox kills faster than falco kills him
very true
k so I also promised reasons why Fox vs Falco is even
Falco's upthrow doesn't work against Fox. Fox can jump out or DI and Falco shouldn't be able to land a shine or anything. Maybe Falco can land a bair at lower percents, but it won't kill or shouldn't lead into anything. Downthrow is still a dice throw (like with Fox) so it's not like it even matters, and bthrow to bthrow only works if they don't DI and at lower percents. Fthrow > tech chase isn't nearly as useful as Fox's tech chases because Falco just doesn't have the speed to chase. IIRC somewhere in the Fox advice thread or some other thread, somebody posted frame data that Fox can even always triumph Falco if he gets (I believe) downthrowed. Basically, Falco doesn't have nearly the same grab game as Fox has.
Now Fox. Dear me. As Zhu once put it, once Fox gets the grab on you, he has a lot of options and if you happen to miss the tech somewhere, you feel stuck and Fox can easily get a good 50 % off you before you can do anything. At lower percents, Fox has a cg on Falco that lasts until...56 %? I think around 70 % if they still DI the throw. Fox can also upthrow to jab to mess up a Falco's timing, or they can do the gay upthrow to upsmash, which can lead into another upsmash if they don't DI. Fox can also uptilt when Falco isn't expecting, and if they DI, then Fox has enough time to tech chase. Fox easily tech chases Falco with his speed, and if you miss the tech it's just downhill. Upthrow to a platform ruins Falco as well, Fox can either Forward Throw chase (waveland > grab), Fox can do a full hop dair to reset Falco's rolling time, and if they haven't landed on the platform yet, Fox can uair Falco. Even without platform, Fox's uair will work at really high percents, which is a guaranteed kill if they don't DI, and if they do DI, Fox can just bair instead.
Fox also seems to return to the stage easier than Falco, assuming the Fox player isn't bad and knows how to tech. Falco does edgeguard Fox well, but Fox can do better. Fox can run off the stage and double jump > nair to prevent Falco from side B'ing, and then Falco shouldn't be able to recover at mid percents. Let's not forget that Falco is the easiest char to gimp with Fox out of an up B because Falco's up B not only has lag, and not only is it short, but the startup frames have no "fire" to attack (unlike Fox's), which makes shining easier as the Fox player doesn't have to be as precise.
Let's also not forget that Fox can DI out of Falco's combos. A good Fox shouldn't get 0-to-death'd often by a Falco if they know how to DI. Shine combos don't work well if the Fox DIs the shine. Falco pressuring Fox's shield doesn't work as well because Fox can just shine OOS, which ruins Falco's pressure. As somebody else already put it, Fox can mix up more options on shield pressuring vs Falco, and he also doesn't get punished as much because there's less lag. Don't get me wrong, Falco shield pressuring is still ****, but Fox has a way easier time breaking the pressure than Falco does. Shine > tech chase works well.
I'm just gonna post something joeplicate said if you guys haven't seen it yet, just so I don't repeat myself over and over again:
"I think it's in fox's favor (slightly) because he can nair shine nair shine in falco's face without any realistic answer. cc is unreliable, and mixing up shield pressure with fox leaves falco with no options up close. although fox's combos aren't guaranteed (what is), he can get big damage off a grab, gimp falcos up b at any time, and bair or downsmash just about every situation he would illusion in.
with a good shine out of shield game, fox can counteract falco's shield pressure, and once falco gets in close on fox it becomes a matter of falco outsmarting him. since he has a worse shield pressure/up close game, falco has a harder time landing a shine, when fox can shine into tech chase grab a more easily because he has an easier set up. falco's shine oos isn't as useful as fox's. lasers control space/help set up combos, but good foxes won't get phased when they have to be fast between lasers; the matchup gets decided when the characters are in each other's faces, and that's what fox has to execute. realistically there's nothing stopping him from doing that.
tl;dr
fox has more options in the up-close game because he's faster."
And lastly, I think Fox definitely has the advantage on stages. Yoshi's Story is better for Fox without a question because Falco can't laser spam as much and Fox can get ridiculously easy vertical KOs on Falco, whereas a Fox that actually DIs Falco's shine shouldn't get killed off the ceiling (at least not as much). Pokemon Stadium is also in Fox's favor, the walls **** Falco so hard especially since he can't laser camp during them. Dream Land idk, I think it might be slightly even. Fox obviously can't get a low % uair or upsmash off Falco because of the high ceiling, but at the same time, it's harder for Falco to laser camp, easier for Fox to cg as opposed to other stages, still able to gimp Falco with a shine, and if you DI Falco's bair or fsmash, then you can also live to high percents. FoD, I have no clue honestly; technically the ceiling is higher, though Fox can use the platforms to his advantage here. I find it harder for Falco because laser camping is harder (especially on the left side) and sweetspotting on that stage is a mess. Maybe it's in Falco's favor though. FD and Battlefield are kind of dependent on the player. Most people say that FD is in favor for Fox and Battlefield is in favor for Falco because a) Fox's cg and combos on Falco are ridiculous on FD without platforms and b) if Fox DI's the shine, Falco can't combo as much and since there are no platforms that catch Fox from a uair or upsmash or anything, Fox can just jump out of the hitstun before Falco's lag is over and ruin Falco following up on a potential combo. Poke Floats is in Fox's favor, Falco can't laser spam as easily, same with Rainbow Cruise (especially with the stage walls / ceilings). Green Greens is also in Fox's favor mostly for the same reasons that Yoshi's Story does. Corneria is good for both chars but definitely better for Fox because of cg, upthrow combos, ability to stay alive horizontally (widest counterpick stage), low ground to ceiling blastzones near fin, and harder for Falco to laser camp in most places there. Brinstar, I honestly don't have much experience with so I can't say much, except that I find it really awkward for Falco to laser on that map. Mute City is probably even for both and I think the only other stages Falco has an advantage on is Jungle Japes and Kongo Jungle 64 (though I've had people argue that a campy Fox can beat Falco on KJ64).
I'm tired and I might've posted something stupid or wrong, whatever. Get at me. I'm just trying to provide input on the matchup. I'm just gonna say that a lot of people think that the matchup is even, and I've heard plenty of people say they think it's 55-45 for Fox. IIRC Shiz, Jman, Mango, and Zhu all think the matchup is even, so you might want to take their opinions into consideration as well. I would say the matchup is no more or less than 55-45 for each character, but I would say it's 50-50. Fox just has so many good tools to use against Falco, and once Fox learns to avoid some of Falco's bread and butter tricks (like escaping Falco's shield pressure, avoiding / tolerating Falco's lasers, DI'ing out of Falco's combos), it's easy for Fox to get either a gimp or kill against Falco.
