Melee Match-Up Chart (NTSC) [Update 008 - 09.09.28]

[Divinokage]

I know it's his style. But because of the top platforms on DK64 approaching that kind of camping is really brutal.
I mean Fox/Falco are the obvious ones for camping those platforms and playing keep away. Because there are so many options for running away/shooting it's amazing on the stage. But if it was like Sheik v. Link/Marth/other character with slow aerial (or at least slower then hers) movement I can see the same problems coming up.

On a stage like Dreamland or whatever this isn't as bad because there's only the 1 top platform, while it's still obviously terrible for some match ups it's not like Jiggs/Peach, Fox/Slow Character on DK64 where even if the Jiggs is better then Peach by a gross margin he still loses simply because it's impossible to catch the camper with the stage make up. The method of approaching isn't as terribly obvious, less options for camping, eventually the Peach/whatever is moved to a low side platform on dl64 for example and is vulnerable even if only for that moment and something can be done.

This is false, if you played players that are insane on Kongo Jungle, like Hax and Jman.. they can do whatever they want and win all the time. The winner of a CP stage is generally the one that knows the stage better minus the matchup meaning for example a Fox (Iori) can do really well on Brinstar even though it's supposedly bad for him (This happened vs me). I don't think there's been nearly enough cases that Kongo Jungle is a broken stage. Ya the barrel saves people sometimes, that's fine, other than that it's a regular stage for me. The only thing that sucks is that its a little hard to catch a Falco jumping on platforms but you can still get him as his horizontal movement isn't as good. As for Sheik, she can't CG as well and also her recovery is a bit crappier but she can also use the platforms well. As for Falcon and Ganon their recovery is much better and less predictable and to me the level display helps them combo even better.

The basis of a CP stage is supposed to give some characters advantages over bad matchups in which I think balances out the matchup better other than having just regular stages which makes even Mid-Tier character not viable imo. I definitely want to keep variety of characters and stages because I don't want to see Fox dittos, Falcos, Sheik all the time.

 

[otg]

I don't think there's been nearly enough cases that Kongo Jungle is a broken stage. Ya the barrel saves people sometimes, that's fine, other than that it's a regular stage for me. The only thing that sucks is that its a little hard to catch a Falco jumping on platforms but you can still get him as his horizontal movement isn't as good. As for Sheik, she can't CG as well and also her recovery is a bit crappier but she can also use the platforms well. As for Falcon and Ganon their recovery is much better and less predictable and to me the level display helps them combo even better.

The basis of a CP stage is supposed to give some characters advantages over bad matchups in which I think balances out the matchup better other than having just regular stages which makes even Mid-Tier character not viable imo. I definitely want to keep variety of characters and stages because I don't want to see Fox dittos, Falcos, Sheik all the time.

Wow, this post is just wrong. I bolded the part about Falco jumping around on platforms, because you are essentially backin up Europhoria's thought on why DK64 should be banned. I also bolded the part about Sheik's recovery being worse because that is 100% wrong. She can stall by transforming into Zelda and back underneath the level to wait for the barrel to appear, as well as having the option to mix up her upB to either the middle of the stage, one of the top platforms etc etc etc. Her recovery is garbage on almost every stage, this one actually gives her more options, so how is it worse here?

Finally, I bolded that part in the last paragraph because frankly, at least in the example of DK64, I can only see this level giving a bigger edge to spanimals/Peach/Jiggs/Sheik (aka the top tier - Marth) over mid tiers and everyone below them if they want to camp. Frankly I thnk you are biased because you like that stage, even though it is very bad for everyone below the top/high tier and actually makes matchups harder for them.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

DK64 isnt a banned stage. it is almost a neutral stage, except the higher platforms are difficult for a few characters to use and the edge messes with certain character's recoveries.

otg, her recovery IS worse, because at the end of it all she still has to upb. if she lands on the stage, we know what happens. the problem is she can't sweetspot the edge that easily on DK64.

Finally, I bolded that part in the last paragraph because frankly, at least in the example of DK64, I can only see this level giving a bigger edge to spanimals/Peach/Jiggs/Sheik (aka the top tier - Marth) over mid tiers and everyone below them if they want to camp. Frankly I thnk you are biased because you like that stage, even though it is very bad for everyone below the top/high tier and actually makes matchups harder for them.

peach vs YL on that stage probably favors YL. puff vs sheik favors puff. you have to look on each individual match-up, not just a blanket statement. low tiers can use the stage as well as top tiers. top tiers are just top tiers.

 

[idea]

DK64 isnt a banned stage. it is almost a neutral stage, except the higher platforms are difficult for a few characters to use and the edge messes with certain character's recoveries.

the argument going on right now is whether or not DK64 is big enough and the platforms high up enough to warrant a ban. (if so, it would be because camping is unfairly good there)

otg, her recovery IS worse, because at the end of it all she still has to upb. if she lands on the stage, we know what happens. the problem is she can't sweetspot the edge that easily on DK64.

sweetspotting the edge isn't much harder there...i mean, it is, but negligibly, really. what he probably meant was that now there's potentially a second platform for sheik to recover onto.

peach vs YL on that stage probably favors YL. puff vs sheik favors puff. you have to look on each individual match-up, not just a blanket statement. low tiers can use the stage as well as top tiers. top tiers are just top tiers.

he didn't ever say it was bad for low tiers, though =P he just didn't mention them. Peach YL probably does favour YL there.

puff sheik i'm not sure about, puff can't get to the upper platforms very quickly, and sheik can needle from up there and stuff. the alternate platform recovery thing would work well on jiggs. if sheik approaches she'll lose, though, but that's always true.

but either way, a good explanation for how those matchups go would be that DK64 makes camping unfairly good. i imagine the YL isn't running after peach and fullhop nairing so much as whipping bombs and boomerangs from a safe distance.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

true true...

it is probably the most campy legal stage (even campier than corneria) simply because in many match-ups you can choose to never fight and time out the match. hell, i did it with falco to a friend's ganon once just to prove a point.

 

[lordvaati]

actually, I think Poke' Floats could be even campier.

 

[Divinokage]

Wow, this post is just wrong. I bolded the part about Falco jumping around on platforms, because you are essentially backin up Europhoria's thought on why DK64 should be banned. I also bolded the part about Sheik's recovery being worse because that is 100% wrong. She can stall by transforming into Zelda and back underneath the level to wait for the barrel to appear, as well as having the option to mix up her upB to either the middle of the stage, one of the top platforms etc etc etc. Her recovery is garbage on almost every stage, this one actually gives her more options, so how is it worse here?

Finally, I bolded that part in the last paragraph because frankly, at least in the example of DK64, I can only see this level giving a bigger edge to spanimals/Peach/Jiggs/Sheik (aka the top tier - Marth) over mid tiers and everyone below them if they want to camp. Frankly I thnk you are biased because you like that stage, even though it is very bad for everyone below the top/high tier and actually makes matchups harder for them.

Exactly, even though I am biased this means I can use my experience to tell people that the stage isn't that broken. Aren't we all biased anyway trying to prove a point?

I just said it's a little hard to get Falco, it's not super gay at all.. the thing about a stage being bannable is if that stage gives insane amount of advantage vs certain matchups in which I don't see at all... There is no broken matchups like let's say Jiggs/Peach on Mute City. You forget about Falcon and Ganon that can do better than the characters you mentioned.

 

[otg]

the thing about a stage being bannable is if that stage gives insane amount of advantage vs certain matchups in which I don't see at all...

After watching how Pink Shinobi/m2k use that stage to camp out matches, I would have to respectfully disagree. Also, while yes Ganon/C.Fal might get a boost in there recovery on that stage, your argument in you're earlier post was that CP stages should help boost midtier matchups. Both Ganon/Cfal are high tier, everyone below them does NOT have tools to stop a peach/Sheik/spanimals from getting a % lead and holding it.

This is actually a beef I have with most of the stage counterpicks in general, they seem to benefit the top/high tiers WAAAY more than anyone else.

Edit:

otg, her recovery IS worse, because at the end of it all she still has to upb. if she lands on the stage, we know what happens. the problem is she can't sweetspot the edge that easily on DK64.

Sheik encounters this problem on EVERY SINGLE STAGE. Grab the ledge against her while she is recovering, and force her to upB. Explain how it's somehow worse on DK64? She has the top platform, she can recover into the middle of the stage if she is able to, and if you watch how m2k plays on that stage, you can stall out underneath the level and wait for the barrel to pop up by switching in between Zelda/Sheik. If anything, she has more recovery options here than on the Neutrals.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Sheik encounters this problem on EVERY SINGLE STAGE. Grab the ledge against her while she is recovering, and force her to upB. Explain how it's somehow worse on DK64? She has the top platform, she can recover into the middle of the stage if she is able to, and if you watch how m2k plays on that stage, you can stall out underneath the level and wait for the barrel to pop up by switching in between Zelda/Sheik. If anything, she has more recovery options here than on the Neutrals.

You're forgetting the fact that every neutral (barring Battlefield) has a wall that leans up against the edge so Sheik doesn't have to worry about teleporting too far from the ledge. In DK64, she (along with some other characters) have to make sure they space their up B perfectly or else they can pass right by the ledge and fall. Another example could be Falco and Fox; they cannot simply side B into it like on other stages, otherwise they will just pass right through and fall to their death.

Also, even if she does successfully stall long enough to get inside the barrel...she doesn't have many options after she's launched out of it. Most end up in her getting killed.

 

[otg]

You're forgetting the fact that every neutral (barring Battlefield) has a wall that leans up against the edge so Sheik doesn't have to worry about teleporting too far from the ledge. In DK64, she (along with some other characters) have to make sure they space their up B perfectly or else they can pass right by the ledge and fall. Another example could be Falco and Fox; they cannot simply side B into it like on other stages, otherwise they will just pass right through and fall to their death.

Also, even if she does successfully stall long enough to get inside the barrel...she doesn't have many options after she's launched out of it. Most end up in her getting killed.

This doesn't seem like that big of a deal tbh, or atleast not enough to say that her recovery is worse here than on any other stage. Sheik should almost NEVER be grabbing the ledge with her upB anyway if she is facing a competent opponent.

I was also never making the case that stalling for the barrel is a gamebreaking tactic or anything of that sort, nor did I claim that she was safe in the barrel. I'm just stating that she has more options to recover on this stage, and thus, IMO her recovery isn't as limited on this stage.

Frankly, all of this talk about her recovery being better on this stage or not is moot to the true debate, which is that this level is broke for camping.

 

[x After Dawn x]

This doesn't seem like that big of a deal tbh, or atleast not enough to say that her recovery is worse here than on any other stage. Sheik should almost NEVER be grabbing the ledge with her upB anyway if she is facing a competent opponent.

I was also never making the case that stalling for the barrel is a gamebreaking tactic or anything of that sort, nor did I claim that she was safe in the barrel. I'm just stating that she has more options to recover on this stage, and thus, IMO her recovery isn't as limited on this stage.

Frankly, all of this talk about her recovery being better on this stage or not is moot to the true debate, which is that this level is broke for camping.

I think you're simply pulling all of this information out of theory without actually testing this against real, human players.

Because if you play vs a Sheik on DK64, I can guarantee you that her options, while they technically are more plentiful there, will almost never make a difference in the outcome of the match.

 

[otg]

I think you're simply pulling all of this information out of theory without actually testing this against real, human players.

Because if you play vs a Sheik on DK64, I can guarantee you that her options, while they technically are more plentiful there, will almost never make a difference in the outcome of the match.

I feel like 99% of this thread is theory, and everyone accepts it blindly. I could make that argument for a lot of things that have been said within the last two or three pages. Also, while I agree that the extra options will not make a huge difference in the outcome of the match, it does not change the fact that she does infact have more options. Her recovery is ****ing horrible.

Now back on topic, this stage is gay.

 

[JPOBS]

This is actually a beef I have with most of the stage counterpicks in general, they seem to benefit the top/high tiers WAAAY more than anyone else.

I just have to point this out because i think its the most important part of this discussion.
we should feel sorry for the low and mid tiers when ehy get gayed on CP.

seriously, they are mod and low tier for a reason, anything they can do, the higher tiers can do better. theres no stage or CP that a low tier uses well, that isnt better utilized by the high tier and thats an unfortunate part of this game. some characters are just ridiculously good.

the only thing we can do is have a Honor system really. I find that for the most part, smashers are pretty honorable about CP, like you hardly see the really gay stages like japes and green green counterpicked. and floaties have mute city and spacies have corneria so fairs fair.
the vast majority of tourny matches are all played on the neutrals anyway so i think we do a good job of not being a douche.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kage should MM me without his gay stage crutches so we can discuss close sets.

 

[x After Dawn x]

I still don't get why people DON'T be more gay in tourneys. If it means winning, then that's all the morale people need to be more gay.

Honestly, there is so much untapped potential for cps. Not untapped as in not known, but untapped as in nobody uses them.

Like, traditionally you'll see neutrals, with few counterpicks as exceptions, but you hardly see Fox picking Poke Floats or Green Greens, or Falco picking Jungle Japes, etc.

 

[Alphicans]

Tyler is 100% right. CP'ing is what makes smash what it is and unique.

 

[JPOBS]

I still don't get why people DON'T be more gay in tourneys. If it means winning, then that's all the morale people need to be more gay.

Honestly, there is so much untapped potential for cps. Not untapped as in not known, but untapped as in nobody uses them.

Like, traditionally you'll see neutrals, with few counterpicks as exceptions, but you hardly see Fox picking Poke Floats or Green Greens, or Falco picking Jungle Japes, etc.

honor.

seriously, sometimes there are more important things than winning. Tis why more people dont care to camp either. Its boring for both players you havent proved your better, you just ran away for 8 minutes or stage gayed them.

and also, the only motivation to winning would be money, but only same top 2-3 layers in any region ever actually win money, and those top players are better than everyone else regardless so they dont need to counterpick gay, and even if you do, you still lose gg.

 

[Alphicans]

Honor/pride is one the seven deadly sins, people need to get over themselves.

 

[JPOBS]

its not about having some sort of superiority complex,

winning for most people isnt a big enough motivator to remove fun from the game.

 

[x After Dawn x]

honor.

seriously, sometimes there are more important things than winning. Tis why more people dont care to camp either. Its boring for both players you havent proved your better, you just ran away for 8 minutes or stage gayed them.

and also, the only motivation to winning would be money, but only same top 2-3 layers in any region ever actually win money, and those top players are better than everyone else regardless so they dont need to counterpick gay, and even if you do, you still lose gg.

Ever seen Pink Shinobi play? He's one of the top 2 players in NorCal (him and SilentSpectre usually fluctuate for whoever claims #1), yet you don't always see him placing top 3 in tourneys. When he does, it's because he plays extremely campy and extremely gay. If you haven't seen / heard what I mean, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTNaAUJZz5k

The match ends in the time running out.

People can, and should, do anything they can to win. Competitive smash, and tournaments as a whole, are based on winning and who's better. Sometimes, pride is more important than honor.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I don't understand why playing insanely campy or doing any other "gay" things are ever considered dishonorable in the first place. It's not like taking 4 stocks off an opponent is somehow a better way of winning than running the timer out.

 

[idea]

some people just like winning a lot more than other people.

i dunno about you, but if i counterpicked someone to pokefloats and picked fox (assuming i had a good fox), and won, i wouldn't really feel like i had overcome the other player.

also i'd really not be enjoying those 7 or 8 minutes.

 

[joeplicate]

Ever seen Pink Shinobi play? He's one of the top 2 players in NorCal (him and SilentSpectre usually fluctuate for whoever claims #1), yet you don't always see him placing top 3 in tourneys. When he does, it's because he plays extremely campy and extremely gay. If you haven't seen / heard what I mean, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTNaAUJZz5k

The match ends in the time running out.

People can, and should, do anything they can to win. Competitive smash, and tournaments as a whole, are based on winning and who's better. Sometimes, pride is more important than honor.

no, you're basically wrong about this
he beat lunin spectra and ss without camping when he burst onto the scene at the davis tournament about a year ago

if he doesn't always place top 3 at every tourney, it's because he just doesn't go to them all
when he does attend them, he does very well with or without camping

 

[N64]

There's a general stigma against camping or 'playing really gay' in the smash community. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it means that if you primarily play this way then a number of people are going to dislike it/you. As was also noted, not many people find it fun as a playstyle.

The benefit is, if it's a beneficial strategy for you, then you're more likely to place higher and get money. And some people might enjoy using the style.

In general, for most people in the smash community I think the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

 

[Pink Reaper]

There's a stigma against camping in any community it's possible in >_>

And yes, Pink Shinobi did prove he was better than Rock Crock by running the **** away for 8 minutes. Pink Shinobi successfully took advantage of one of Ganon's greatest flaws in such a way that it allowed him to win. It just so happens that one of Ganon's greatest flaws is the fact that he's slow like Paris Hilton and can't deal with camping on high platforms. Skill is finding a weakness, exploiting it and winning. Blah.

 

[1048576]

I think it's because all the campy people went to brawl.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

THen sheik chain throwing someone is VERY skillful. then f-tilt fair. my sister can do that and she doesn't even know how to sheild but she is decent at spacing.

Skill is finding a weakness, exploiting it and winning. If so then ice climbers should go ultra gay mode and wobble everyone and for the mental effect laugh your *** off to P*** them off. I really don't try to get the grabs most of the time. I don't know I just don't play gay because I want to use my mind and combos to win. really if you said oh I,m just going to camp for 8 minutes what brain power does that take? any skill or cool replay value? H*** no!

 

[Divinokage]

Kage should MM me without his gay stage crutches so we can discuss close sets.

I already know that Sheik obviously has advantage vs Ganon, so you'll probably win anyway.. though if you want to try other characters.. by all means.

 

[Pink Reaper]

THen sheik chain throwing someone is VERY skillful. then f-tilt fair. my sister can do that and she doesn't even know how to sheild but she is decent at spacing.

Skill is finding a weakness, exploiting it and winning. If so then ice climbers should go ultra gay mode and wobble everyone and for the mental effect laugh your *** off to P*** them off. I really don't try to get the grabs most of the time. I don't know I just don't play gay because I want to use my mind and combos to win. really if you said oh I,m just going to camp for 8 minutes what brain power does that take? any skill or cool replay value? H*** no!

Being able to locate and actively cover your weaknesses is a skill as well.

If you get chaingrabbed to death by Sheik 4 times in a row it either means that you're terrible at pretty much every defensive aspect of smash or playing Pichu(which, knowing you, you probably are) And actively attaining a grab and following through with whatever long tech chase/chain grab you are attempting to use requires a great amount of skill. There's a reason you don't see 100 random sheik players winning tournaments because all they have to do is run in, grab once and take a free stock. Likewise there's a reason it doesn't happen with ICs. That said, wobbling is a(mostly) different matter. Being inescapable, it negates any skill the player getting grabbed has as nothing they can do will matter.

And if you think all it takes to camp is the thought "Im gonna run away and (insert projectile here)" then obviously you only ever play against Bowser. On Hyrule.

Edit:

I still don't get why people DON'T be more gay in tourneys. If it means winning, then that's all the morale people need to be more gay.

Honestly, there is so much untapped potential for cps. Not untapped as in not known, but untapped as in nobody uses them.

Like, traditionally you'll see neutrals, with few counterpicks as exceptions, but you hardly see Fox picking Poke Floats or Green Greens, or Falco picking Jungle Japes, etc.

This probably has alot to do with the fact that people never, for any reason, actively practice on counter pick stages. Because most players will CP a stage they are most comfortable on you'll almost never see players picking a stage off of the CP list.

Think of it like this, a Falcon CPing a Fox. Falcon player thinks "Im know Dreamland really well, I play there alot, I know I can beat Fox there, I'll CP there."

Im gonna go back to practicing Falcon on Brinstar now.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

ha ha at bowser on hyrule. I see what your saying for chain throws. I just want to throw this out there, sheik grab outranges a few people and she is at least in the top 5 fastest in the game.

Yeah don't get grabed is very very legit when fighting the ice climbers and they take more skill to chain throw due to set ups, different wieghts, short grab range and etc.

But vs sheik it's easily 2 or 3 times harder to avoid and just one grab can go ha get ***** a stock if the sheik doesn't F*** up which most sheiks won't. But for the tech chase and set-ups (i don't k now what sheik has for set ups) I argee and to cover my weakness I argee is I get hit it's my own D*** fault unless i,m in teams or who I,m fighting is perfect or something.

But again if we are going to say stuff skill wise we both know there are other ways that are harder and don't have as simple of an anwser to as don't get grabed. like if you see de-synced ice climbers ice blocking to you or marth fair spaceing it's not a simple as don't get grabed. The simple grab is effetive but there are other ways with harder anwsers and if you camp it can lead to failure if whos fighting understands and predicts your movement.

 

[unknown522]

Honor/pride is one the seven deadly sins, people need to get over themselves.

lol religion.

There's a general stigma against camping or 'playing really gay' in the smash community. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it means that if you primarily play this way then a number of people are going to dislike it/you. As was also noted, not many people find it fun as a playstyle.

The benefit is, if it's a beneficial strategy for you, then you're more likely to place higher and get money. And some people might enjoy using the style.

In general, for most people in the smash community I think the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

Yeah, people camp because it's broken and they don't want to die / get hit from real fighting.

Street fighter community largely accepts camping, though SF4 has taking camping to a new level.

On that note, I think DJ Nintendo is the only person that enjoys camping. Maybe M2K as well.

There's a stigma against camping in any community it's possible in >_>

And yes, Pink Shinobi did prove he was better than Rock Crock by running the **** away for 8 minutes. Pink Shinobi successfully took advantage of one of Ganon's greatest flaws in such a way that it allowed him to win. It just so happens that one of Ganon's greatest flaws is the fact that he's slow like Paris Hilton and can't deal with camping on high platforms. Skill is finding a weakness, exploiting it and winning. Blah.

lol, if only it was that simple.

 

[adumbrodeus]

There's a general stigma against camping or 'playing really gay' in the smash community. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it means that if you primarily play this way then a number of people are going to dislike it/you. As was also noted, not many people find it fun as a playstyle.

The benefit is, if it's a beneficial strategy for you, then you're more likely to place higher and get money. And some people might enjoy using the style.

In general, for most people in the smash community I think the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

Play to win.


If a strategy is the best way for you to win matches, you should do it, we're a competitive community, our goal is to win.


Why are campers disliked? What's inherently wrong with a defensive playstyle, why force everyone to be "****s to the wall" style offensive?



Still, remember, this is melee, and in only a few match-ups and on a few stages does camping inherently offer an advantage as is, so it's just a playstyle.

lol religion.

Yeah, people camp because it's broken and they don't want to die / get hit from real fighting.

Street fighter community largely accepts camping, though SF4 has taking camping to a new level.

On that note, I think DJ Nintendo is the only person that enjoys camping. Maybe M2K as well.

lol, if only it was that simple.

Camping is a method of fighting, it's letting your opponent make the mistake and you capitalize on it, why do you think there are so many defensive martial arts?

M2K has stated many times that he prefers playing offensively.



And it is that simple, the only measure of skill that matters is who shows up on the victory screen.

 

[D20]

On that note, I think DJ Nintendo is the only person that enjoys camping. Maybe M2K as well.

You've obviously never had the displeasure of playing Camper Bob. Consider yourself lucky.

 

[lordvaati]

Why are campers disliked? What's inherently wrong with a defensive playstyle, why force everyone to be "****s to the wall" style offensive?

this is why.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I don't have a single thing against camping.

Camping makes this game work, and every player camps every match (unless you're a scrub, in which case you get ***** every match). Camping is as simple as taking control of your area and keeping your opponent out. You move your area around until they approach into your zone and you get a hit. I camp all day with falcon and marth.

Camping is NOT about using projectiles, its about playing defensive and SMART

 

[JPOBS]

Ever seen Pink Shinobi play? He's one of the top 2 players in NorCal (him and SilentSpectre usually fluctuate for whoever claims #1), yet you don't always see him placing top 3 in tourneys. When he does, it's because he plays extremely campy and extremely gay. If you haven't seen / heard what I mean, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTNaAUJZz5k

The match ends in the time running out.

People can, and should, do anything they can to win. Competitive smash, and tournaments as a whole, are based on winning and who's better. Sometimes, pride is more important than honor.

yea i know pink shinobi and his playstyle is gay and very unfun.

But, "sometimes pride is more important than honor" wheres the pride in camping someone to a time out victory?


camping and counterpicking gay stages are valid and useful strats to win, but most people in the community straight up dont care enough about winning or losing to play in a way frustrating to others just to place a little higher in tourny. You asked why people dont do it more.The reason we dont see it as frequently is because most people dont care that much.

 

[adumbrodeus]

this is why.

But this is melee, even when you're camping the game is interesting, because camping in melee is a lot more intensive then brawl.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

But, "sometimes pride is more important than honor" wheres the pride in camping someone to a time out victory?

Perhaps you take more pride in your victories where you take 4 stocks rather than run the timer out, but I and some others don't.

I personally am quite happy with my 8 minute victories.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Perhaps you take more pride in your victories where you take 4 stocks rather than run the timer out, but I and some others don't.

I personally am quite happy with my 8 minute victories.

QFT, a victory is a victory, as long as you didn't violate the rules (including the assumed rules like OOG interference), then it doesn't matter how you got it.

 

[-ACE-]

If a strategy is the best way for you to win matches, you should do it, we're a competitive community, our goal is to win.

This is why planking is often banned in brawl (take a picture, I never use the B word). There is a time limit on matches for a reason. You play to win, but sometimes some sort of line must be drawn.

Why are campers disliked? What's inherently wrong with a defensive playstyle, why force everyone to be "****s to the wall" style offensive? Camping is a method of fighting, it's letting your opponent make the mistake and you capitalize on it, why do you think there are so many defensive martial arts?

No one is forced to do anything. Some players deserve the money and some players deserve the respect. Campers are disliked at times because waiting and letting your opponent make a mistake is sometimes synonymous with admitting that you are more likely to make a mistake than your opponent. If your opponent feels that this is the case (it's not always the case of course), he might be willing to express his opinion, and here we are. This happens more often than you'd think.

And it is that simple, the only measure of skill that matters is who shows up on the victory screen.

Wrong. Sometimes you can clearly see that the person that lost a match has a great deal of skill, and often it is obvious that the winner got very lucky. This is common sense.