idea
Smash Master
he has a point. maybe we should do less accurate ratings.
that might make the low tier matchups more agreeable, too.
that might make the low tier matchups more agreeable, too.
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I don't need to justify the people I'm playing, but I've been around enough to know when people are bad and when they are good. Although the GW's I'm playing might not be world class (like Chu's or Dire's), they certainly aren't bad.you must be playing some pretty awful G&W players then if you can win playing poorly.
IMO, the G&W - Roy mathcup is in G&W's favor.
Roy's Fsmash (pretty much his only kill move) is virtually a standalone attack vs G&w.
Sure, its strong and can kill him because he's light, but roy isnt going to combo into the attack like he can vs fastfallers. Which means its goignt o become pretty obvious when you want to/can go for the fsmash kill which really helps g-dubs avoid it entirely.
furthermore, g-dubs DOES combo roy, dtilt/uptilt, fair, nair, **** roy. and getting him off the stage into a edgeguard opportunity is all it takes to lose the stock.
edgeguarding is in g-dubs favor imo, once roy is off the stage, all he has to do is run off, and hit him with one of his disjointed fair/nair hitboxes, and, roy being the worst recovery in the game cant defend himself from this AT ALL.
on the other hand, roy's got two realistic edgeguards vs g-dubs, he can either counter or fsmash, and barring yoshi's story, both of those can be evaded with a sweetpotted b-up.
so yea, thats how i see the matchup, if all you have to do is throw out a couple fsmashs to beat your opponent, then frankly, you arent playing anyone good.
radaradaInevergetrepliedtopradaradaThe best matchup chart I've ever seen had 3 super pros of each character giving their biased but educated opinions of each matchup their character has. These didn't have to correspond with players having opposing character's view of it exactly so people don't need to quibble with their explanations of the matchups as much as a defined list, gave a relatively fair way of sharing opinions on the matches and prompted people interested in discrepancies in the chart to look up what it is about the match that's weird and might cause for varied opinions on the match.
just throwing that out there
seeing roy attempt to recover makes me laugh every time. His jump is hilarious.Roy's recovery is actually pretty decent, even though it's very short. A well timed overb stops most approaches and the upb's priority surprises literally everyone I play; it has much better priority than Marth's. If Roy recovers low he should have little to no trouble with a GW jumping off the stage at him.
gaw doeshave "mostly" two hit combos simply because his attacks have a lot of knockback, but any grab leads to a down throw-> uptilts->uptilt-> fair or other such variations with longer combos.I don't need to justify the people I'm playing, but I've been around enough to know when people are bad and when they are good. Although the GW's I'm playing might not be world class (like Chu's or Dire's), they certainly aren't bad.
Gdubs has mostly 2 hit combos on Roy: dtilt->aerial, which do not do enough damage or knockback to really threaten Roy, until they multiple times each stock.
Roy combos midweights/floaties well enough with platforms, and he doesn't need very long ones against G&W. Plus there is nothing which states you must combo into a kill move to hit with it, just because high tiers can do it doesn't mean it's a necessity. GW's tech is awful, as previously mentioned, and therefore is quite easy to fsmash; a tech can be forced from a throw, and GW is pretty easy to grab. Fsmashing GW is significantly easier than fsmashing most of the cast, which gives a significant advantage to Roy he's not used to having.
Roy's recovery is actually pretty decent, even though it's very short. A well timed overb stops most approaches and the upb's priority surprises literally everyone I play; it has much better priority than Marth's. If Roy recovers low he should have little to no trouble with a GW jumping off the stage at him.
As for edgeguarding GW, he can edgehog, get up (ledgehop) and fsmash him. With the right timing it can be done even with the small lag GW has at the end of his upb. If GW is going to go for the edge anyways, a ledgehog kills him. Either way, edgeguarding is not anywhere near impossible and decidedly not nullified by sweetspotting.
Very basically, Roy can zone GW relatively well, and when the character is entirely a disjointed moveset with terrible defense he loses pretty badly to someone who has an equal amount of priority but who lives longer and has a better defense.
.
Arcade machines actually keep track of records, and much of the matchup chart takes arcade machine records into consideration, whereas the Smash community forms a machup list based solely on personal experience.(and when the charts are based off arcade records, equal skill level cannot be assumed; I doubt people of equal skill level usually play as Dan >_>)So, what's the reason the Street Fighter community can have an accepted(?) matchup chart, but we can't?
Directed towards the people against the chart. ^_^
- it's all about down throw -> 9/6 =Pgaw doeshave "mostly" two hit combos simply because his attacks have a lot of knockback, but any grab leads to a down throw-> uptilts->uptilt-> fair or other such variations with longer combos.
Roy's recovery isnt "pretty decent", its actually considered the worst in the game bar none. roy would have to be crazy to recover low against gaw because a simple dtilt would ruin him. b-up may surprise people, but disjointed hitboxs of dtilt > roys b-up surprise.
Also, no, his Bover wotn save him from gaw because again, gaw has NO problems jumping WAY the **** out there to hit you with one of his disjointed aerials to secure the kill then recover with his superb vertical b-up.
again, like i said, Roy may "live longer" but that amounts to nothing when he's so easily disrupted during his recovery and, true, roy does have ways of gettign of his fsmash but again, its still a stand alone attack, Gaw can combo into his kill moves vs roy.
fox and falco camp pichu too hard, and kill him quickly. Do you actually think that players at equal skill will actually win with pichu vs fox/falco?I'm still very much in disagreement with some of the low tier matchups, though. Pichu has solid combos against fastfallers, but the updated matchup still says that Pichu vs Fox is near unwinnable.
Kirby says hi.Roy's recovery isnt "pretty decent", its actually considered the worst in the game bar none.
Or the Roy could just sweetspot <.<roy would have to be crazy to recover low against gaw because a simple dtilt would ruin him.
Not unless the Roy is bad <.<b-up may surprise people, but disjointed hitboxs of dtilt > roys b-up surprise.
Side B isn't to hit the G&W. It's to fast fall and then STOP fast falling with a very nice momentum stalling move (...or to hit the G&W, lol).Also, no, his Bover wotn save him from gaw because again, gaw has NO problems jumping WAY the **** out there to hit you with one of his disjointed aerials to secure the kill then recover with his superb vertical b-up.
Roy's recovery is not as easy to edgeguard as you make it out to be. "A simple dtilt would ruin him" is far from true, especially against any player that knows how to ledge tech (even then, they should still be sweetspotting anyway). And G&W's options from a ledge hop (since you'd have to edgehog to edgeguard a smart Roy anyway) aren't exactly stellar, so your edgeguard ends with on hit knocking them towards the stage.again, like i said, Roy may "live longer" but that amounts to nothing when he's so easily disrupted during his recovery and, true, roy does have ways of gettign of his fsmash but again, its still a stand alone attack, Gaw can combo into his kill moves vs roy.
See thats the thing, in order for roy to sweetspot, he has to fall/recover low and imo vs gaw thats not a very good choice seeing as gaw has amazing vertical recovery, im not afraid to drop down there and hit you with, well....pretty much anything that will kill you and leave me able to easily recover.Roy's recovery is not as easy to edgeguard as you make it out to be. "A simple dtilt would ruin him" is far from true, especially against any player that knows how to ledge tech (even then, they should still be sweetspotting anyway). And G&W's options from a ledge hop (since you'd have to edgehog to edgeguard a smart Roy anyway) aren't exactly stellar, so your edgeguard ends with on hit knocking them towards the stage.
And F-smash being a stand alone attack does not mean he won't land it. It outranges quite a few of your attacks (even without tipping), and once again, G&W's tech is absolutely terrible.
at what cost though? roy's B-up doesnt have much range which means he has to do it in range enough to grab the ledge after hitting gawif roy's up-b has as high priority as whoever said, though, then couldn't the roy see G&W coming down after him and up-b through whatever aerial? although G&W's fair and nair have pretty good priority too...
I'll just direct you to what I said earlier.