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ness discussion

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
Peek, I noticed when I played you that you never sweetspot the ledge with the PSI Magnet.
 

firo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
600
Location
Champaign, Illinois
One thing I've always wondered with ness is whether its possible to drop from the ledge into a down-b sweetspot without going through the whole jump circle.... it would seem to be possible but I can never do it in a match.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
One thing I've always wondered with ness is whether its possible to drop from the ledge into a down-b sweetspot without going through the whole jump circle.... it would seem to be possible but I can never do it in a match.
Nope. There's a brief period of time after you let go of the ledge where you can't grab the ledge, and by the time that period of time is over Ness has fallen a bit too far down to grab the ledge (if you didn't jump at all). You can do it with PK Thunder, though, because he falls slower during the PK Thunder animation.
 

blaze3927

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
832
Location
Melbourne
Dreamland:

lots of uair, dont bother wih bair ,
uair x2- nair- spike if you can djc well
utilt- grab- edge guard with upB, and spike.
utilt- uair-usmash-utilt chains, if close enough oto edge throw in a spike for a finish
good tech chases.
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
8,740
Location
Chicago
Ness vs. Falcon on DL:

-Wacky djc shenanigans
-throw
-Dair for the spike

For the adventurous:
replace step three with "Edgeguard with yoyo".

You will still lose. But as far as I've been able to tell, this is the #1 way of doing it in the ness community.
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Emeryville
falcon isn't hard for a strong ness player. It comes down to who can stage guard better for 90% of the lives, but the ability to negate falcons recovery with a well timed down smash is better then spiking. Plus we have pk thunder to hold a person at bay, and ruin a direct path to the stage. Which forces either a predictable landing, or a late up b that meets the bottom side of my yo yo string.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,337
Location
Sayonara Memories
ok, assume you're a strong ness player, what happens when you come across a strong falcon player?

the matchup isn't purely determined by edgeguarding prowess...
 

SuPeRbOoM

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
4,509
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
the matchup comes down to who can get the first combo starter off, falcon will have an easier time with this and edgeguard ness afterwards no problem.
 

blaze3927

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
832
Location
Melbourne
falcon approaching ness can be a bit homo, especially if the ness just times djc uair with a few bairs well,
falcons shorthop is too big for ness imo, and usmash/grab can also be beaten by uair. on dreamland ness just has to stay down the bottom to have a pretty even chance of approaching. then he can easily rack up 50-80% with uair/usmash/utilt chains.
get a grab then its all over.
 

ciaza

Smash Prodigy
Premium
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A falcon approaching solely with Usmash/grab won't go far sure, but a good falcon will make good use of platforms and bair for approach on ness.
 

Peek~

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,284
Location
˙͜ >˙
Damn
fox lasers
Damn
fox tilts
Damn
fox jab

Poke city ;_;
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
does crouching after doing a djc dair make a difference?

i do a djc dair, and still hold down after being done, and then i do it again and it seems extensively low to the ground compared to when i don't crouch.

my timing is balls for djc's anyway
 

ciaza

Smash Prodigy
Premium
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Messages
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Australia
Well since you're jumping after you crouch the crouch is out of the equation. I'd say that what you are doing is actually doing the djc dair quicker since you aren't using extra time releasing the joystick after each djc, since you're just holding it down all the time.
 

3mmanu3lrc

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
1,715
Location
D.R.
Damn
fox lasers
Damn
fox tilts
Damn
fox jab

Poke city ;_;
Now I have the feeling that you hate Fox.
xD
Soupamario said:
does crouching after doing a djc dair make a difference?

i so a djc dair, and still hold down after being done, and then i do it again and it seems extensively low to the ground compared to when i don't crouch.
If you jump right after fast enough, you won't even really be crouching.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
yeah sometimes i even 'cancel' (i don't really cancel it i just do the attack again) the crouch.

however, i may be doing it fast but as i said my timing is wacked up.
 

Luco

Smash Hero
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dracilus
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I didn't read everything, but the first part i read was completely contrary to how i used to play. Back when i played SSB as often as i play SSBB now, ness used to be my favourite character. I used to be so good i could always get him in the exact direction i wanted, even if i was under the stage. Most people don't like him because a lot of people can't control his PK thunder that well, which is a vital part of his moveset, but trust me, after using him for a while, he's pretty much unbeatable(although i guess that goes for all the characters).
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
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lol before this conversation gets started again.

Luco, trust ME, an AVID ssb64 player, once you get to a certain level people can edgeguard ness almost 100% of the time. Its not about having to control his pk thunder, we are talking way beyond that level, its about a lot of other bad things about his recovery and pretty much its almost 100% predictability.

I will say no more.
 

3mmanu3lrc

Smash Lord
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D.R.
I didn't read everything, but the first part i read was completely contrary to how i used to play. Back when i played SSB as often as i play SSBB now, ness used to be my favourite character. I used to be so good i could always get him in the exact direction i wanted, even if i was under the stage. Most people don't like him because a lot of people can't control his PK thunder that well, which is a vital part of his moveset, but trust me, after using him for a while, he's pretty much unbeatable(although i guess that goes for all the characters).
6 pages back...
just read them and then come to say what you know/think.
 

Luco

Smash Hero
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It's a lot of people arguing about whether he is over on underrated. I think i'd know a whole heap of this if i knew what the tier list actually is and where i can find it. It seems to me as if it's a list of which characters are better than others in certain situations or some such.

As for the rest of it..... I think that a whole lot of people seem to not want to play as him. I assume you have evidence that a good ness player can be easily beaten, but in case you don't, then try getting really good as him, and see how he goes against most characters. My brother has played SSB for longer than i have, and whenever he tried different ones, he almost never beat me. I don't know all that much about game mechanics, so you can beat me there, i'm just speaking from a personal point of view.
 

ciaza

Smash Prodigy
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Far out I agree with dandan it's bloody ludicrous how this keeps coming back. Where's Fireblaster when you need him?
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
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well at least its with new people, not the people arguing the same point over and over again.

We had a giant discussion about it in my categorized tier list thread. We should probably take excerpts from that and add it to the smash index. Would probably be useful
 

Luco

Smash Hero
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A good Ness player cannot be easily beaten because a good player cannot be easily beaten. General skill level is much more important than character ability (much more so in Smash 64 than in Melee and Brawl).

Current tier list for high level play: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250563
Thankyou for the argument(that's my point of view anyway), and thankyou for the list. Only thing: I still don't really get what it means, and why there are groups, and why there are random letters instead of numbers....
 

DMoogle

A$
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
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Location
Northern VA, USA
Feel free to bump the thread to ask questions (hopefully the people who answer them will remain polite), as this thread is getting slightly off topic, but I'll answer your questions here anyway.

What it means: Higher on a tier list means that a character is generally better, which BASICALLY means that if two equally skilled players fought against each other, the person who used a character higher on the tier list will have better results than the person who used a character lower on the tier list.

Why there are groups: I assume it's to emphasize gaps, e.g. the gap between Jigglypuff and Ness is significantly smaller than the gap between Jigglypuff and Luigi. I might be wrong with this assumption though.

Why there are letters instead of numbers: Not sure.

Why the choice of letters is S, A, B, C: Not sure, but a quick Google search led me to this, which is probably the reason: http://www.giantbomb.com/s-rank/92-2962/
 

dandan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
1,373
I wonder who would be my skill level... I'd really like to verse that person one day. :)
don't limit yourself.
i say, come play online (get an adapter if you are used to the n64 pad) and play people from all skill levels.
the fastest way to improve is playing people who are better than you that can give you advice (though if the gap is huge then it might not be that beneficial).
 

3mmanu3lrc

Smash Lord
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Messages
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D.R.
don't limit yourself.
i say, come play online (get an adapter if you are used to the n64 pad) and play people from all skill levels.
the fastest way to improve is playing people who are better than you that can give you advice (though if the gap is huge then it might not be that beneficial).
That's totally right, but never play with someone you know you can beat with 1 stock out of at least 3...
How would i go about doing an extended horizontal djc on keyboard (100% range)?
1-press windows button
2-scroll up to internet explorer/firefox/opera/google chrome
3-press enter
4- select the url box
5- type www.ebay.com.au
6-buy a ****ing usb controller adapter
7-:3
LOLz!!!
That'd be like the best answer for that.
 

ciaza

Smash Prodigy
Premium
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Messages
2,759
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Australia
He has no reason not to now he's finished year 12 so school work isn't going to get in the way for him anymore. He's just being a jew.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,337
Location
Sayonara Memories
i lol'd dan

ciaza and co are just mad because im still matching them with my inferior controls

my brother wants to invest in a controller for his fifa so i might get on and use that
 
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