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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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The Jigglypuff in Smash is almost certainly a girl. Have you ever tried an alternate color? Since 64 its had girly hair accessories. Yeah, it may be a guy wearing a flower in its hair, but really now, the thing is supposed to be a girl.
That doesn't prove anything. Look at the trophy information, it said nothing regarding Jigglypuff's gender at all. Having girly hair accessories doesn't prove anything either. Look at Yoshi's alternate costume for Brawl. One of Yoshi's skin color is pink. Does that mean the Yoshi we have is female? No it doesn't. If we can't say that Yoshi is male or female, neither can we say that Jigglypuff is male or female?
Pieman0920 said:
The difference between Dedede and Bowser is fairly profound, since Dedede is selfish, but good at heart, while Bowser is usually selfish and bad at heart. He works with others as long as it helps himself, while Dedede has been selfless in the past. When Dedede is a bad guy, its usually due to some misunderstanding or because he's being possessed. Heck, King Dedede was one of the guys who ended up saving the day in SSE. Bowser on the other hand is generally the main villain of the Mario games, and without any good intentions redeeming him. No, he's not pure evil like Ganondorf, but the guy is still clearly a real bad guy unlike Dedede. Bowser is inconsistant, but when he's at his worst, he's trying to take over the entire universe by destroying it. Dedede's worst is him stealing lots of food.
- Regardless of what you say, King Dedede is still considered on of the major antagonists of the Kirby series and even when he does heroic acts, it is reluctantly like Bowser. After he helps saves the world, he goes back to stealing food, which is a thing that villain does, mind you.

- Bolded. Stealing lots of food isn't as bad as taking over the universe, but it can still be called an act that villains do. If he got his way with no interruptions, many people in Dream Land would be dead because he steals food. King Dedede also made a major no-no by bathing in the Fountain of Dreams. And about stealing food, that was the main plot in the first game.
Pieman0920 said:
How do we know that Bowser was a solo character? He could have been a friggen tag team with Mewtwo for all we know. If Dixie is solo or not in SSBWU, we still won't know for sure what was intended in Brawl.
We know what Bowser became in Melee, a solo character, therefore, we can infer that he was planned as a solo character in the original game since every game has had at least one character planned but cut that made it into the next installment. If Dixie Kong makes it into SSB4 as a tag team with Diddy, we can assume that Sakurai planned for Dixie Kong and Diddy Kong to be together in Brawl but had to cut Dixie out due to time constraints.
 

OmegaXXII

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Have you guys ever played any Pokemon games?

If you have you would know that Legendary Pokemon are genderless (at least in Gold/Silver that is)

as for genders, any pokemon can be female regardless of looks, excluding Nidoran, The Hitmon's, and a couple of others, heck some pokemon like Machamp totally look like male, but if you try looking for a machop you'll often find females ones, yea it's strange.

:phone:
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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no sarcasm. Lucario is definitely Lucaria.
Odd that you'd say that, since there are more male Lucario than female.

Oddly, in generation 4, Gallade was made to be Gardevoir's male counterpart, even though Gardevoir can be male or female. Still, despite Gardevoir's 50/50 gender ratio, it's often more appropriate for it to be female than male.


Have you guys ever played any Pokemon games?

If you have you would know that Legendary Pokemon are genderless (at least in Gold/Silver that is)

as for genders, any pokemon can be female regardless of looks, excluding Nidoran, The Hitmon's, and a couple of others, heck some pokemon like Machamp totally look like male, but if you try looking for a machop you'll often find females ones, yea it's strange.

:phone:
Yeah the genders can be odd for certain Pokemon. For a Swellow, male ones are okay. For Pokemon like Tyranitar, however, it's often hard to believe that it can be female.

Gardevoir has been an odd Pokemon in the gender department, since even though its appearance is that of a female, it can be either gender. At least for Gallade, it can never be female.
 

Pieman0920

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That doesn't prove anything. Look at the trophy information, it said nothing regarding Jigglypuff's gender at all. Having girly hair accessories doesn't prove anything either. Look at Yoshi's alternate costume for Brawl. One of Yoshi's skin color is pink. Does that mean the Yoshi we have is female? No it doesn't. If we can't say that Yoshi is male or female, neither can we say that Jigglypuff is male or female?
If I were assuming that it would be a female by basis of pink skin, like you're saying I should have done for Yoshi, I would have just said that outright for Jiggs, since they all have pink skin. That's clearly not a determinate though, but I'd like to think that virtually all of Jigglypuff's alternate colors having feminine qualities make it so that she's supposed to be the "girl" even if she may not be a she.

- Regardless of what you say, King Dedede is still considered on of the major antagonists of the Kirby series and even when he does heroic acts, it is reluctantly like Bowser. After he helps saves the world, he goes back to stealing food, which is a thing that villain does, mind you.
Dedede doesn't reluctantly preform heroic acts though. He doesn't like Kirby, or at least I assume he doesn't like him, but in Kirby's Adventure he was actively trying to stop Nightmare from appearing in the world, while a misinformed Kirby was unwittingly accomplishing that. After that, basically all of the times that he fought Kirby it was because of some evil spirit possessing him. The whole stealing food thing was really the only thing that could be considered villainous and that was still only in his first appearance (or remakes of Kirby's Dreamland) Honestly, Kirby is closer to a villain than he is (And MK too)

- Bolded. Stealing lots of food isn't as bad as taking over the universe, but it can still be called an act that villains do. If he got his way with no interruptions, many people in Dream Land would be dead because he steals food. King Dedede also made a major no-no by bathing in the Fountain of Dreams. And about stealing food, that was the main plot in the first game.
They actually wouldn't be dead unless they were really stupid, since there's food scattered all around.

But anyways, like I said before, Dedede is selfish and likely just stole all the food for himself, but he didn't really have any evil intention. As for him bathing in the fountain of dreams, if you're going to say that he's the villain because he does something dumb, then he'd be a pretty bad villain, because Kirby does that more.

We know what Bowser became in Melee, a solo character, therefore, we can infer that he was planned as a solo character in the original game since every game has had at least one character planned but cut that made it into the next installment. If Dixie Kong makes it into SSB4 as a tag team with Diddy, we can assume that Sakurai planned for Dixie Kong and Diddy Kong to be together in Brawl but had to cut Dixie out due to time constraints.
Who exactly was cut from Melee that showed up in Brawl?

Anyways, we really can't infer that much. If Dixie shows up as a solo character, there's no real proof that she was intended to be like that in Brawl, and it could just be that Diddy broke out into the spotlight so much, yet Sakurai wanted Dixie in anyways, that he decided to make them seperate despite earlier plans. On the other hand, Sakurai may have wanted Dixie to be solo in Brawl, but liked the idea of her being a partner with Diddy so much, that he decides to do that now. Or, it could be just as how you're assuming its going to go down. Or he could just not have Dixie in there at all. Unless Sakurai actually states something, its not such a hot idea to infer.
 

Big-Cat

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Sorry, but these conversations are stupid in how serious everyone gets.
 

Thrillhouse-vh.

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Oh my ****ing god.
Pieman, Smash-Bros_Guy, respect for your dedication and you're both cool guys, but seriously, some of these conversations are absolutely mind boggling in how serious and long they get :p

:phone:
 

OmegaXXII

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Well I would love more stage variety here are some ideas:

City Escape from Sonic Generations


this new stage could have interaction such as car hazards and such.

Bowser's castle from Super Mario Bros.


This stage is what bowser needs, it's classic.

Pokemon Colisseum


a colisseum instead of the same old looking Pokemon Stadium would be nice for a change.

:phone:
 

lordvaati

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Who exactly was cut from Melee that showed up in Brawl?
Lucas. he was going to replace Ness, but was dropped after M3 was cancelled on consoles.

and on a similar note, DeDede, Bowser, and Meowth were cut from 64 as well, but Bow came in Melee and D3 in Brawl, so what of meowth?

hmmmm....
 

Shorts

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@Omegy

I like those stage ideas a lot. I was thinking of Bowser's castle from Mario Kart 64, would anybody mind that version? Also, pokemon Coliseum is a great Idea, but I hope we get something more unique or interesting from Pokemon, like we did with Spear Pillar, Saffron City, and Pokefloats. Lastly, that Sonic game actually looks cool and I'm not a Sonic fan. I'm down with that level.

My second pokemon stage ideas:

Burned Tower - Pokemon GSCHGSS


Bell Tower - Pokemon GSCHGSS


Victini's Lighthouse Pokemon BW
 

BlueSuperSonic1

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Lucas. he was going to replace Ness, but was dropped after M3 was cancelled on consoles.

and on a similar note, DeDede, Bowser, and Meowth were cut from 64 as well, but Bow came in Melee and D3 in Brawl, so what of meowth?

hmmmm....
There is no proof that Meowth was supposed to be in 64, that's just a rumor.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Maybe Dragonspiral Tower could be utilized. It would also be interesting to add Reshiram and Zekrom as stage elements as well.
 

Pieman0920

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Oh yeah, Lucas. Not sure I'd count him, since that was sort of a pending thing, but whatever I guess I was under the impression that it was characters who appeared in the data, but on recolation, there was no evidense that Smash 64's cut characters were in the data either.

I wouldn't count Snake though. That was just a late request. There isn't anything saying that he was intended to be in Melee like you could say for Lucas.
 

Zombiesarecool

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Lucas. he was going to replace Ness, but was dropped after M3 was cancelled on consoles.

and on a similar note, DeDede, Bowser, and Meowth were cut from 64 as well, but Bow came in Melee and D3 in Brawl, so what of meowth?

hmmmm....
I doubt Meowth will ever make it in. His only prominent roll in the pokemon series (like Jigglypuff) was because of the popularity of the cartoon at the time. But at this point characters like Zorark and Victini are more popular in Japan because of the films.

Also, Balloon Fighter (I WISH!!) was a character created for melee but they couldn't get the physics right for flight, but he wasn't placed into Brawl, doubt we will see him. Though Tingle would in theory have the same physics and with Zelda on its 25th anniversary I could legit actually see Tingle as a theoretical possibility.
 
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This guy brought up a good point in regards to the starting roster.

What he said was that in every game since Melee, we got more of a starting slot increase. Melee increased the starting slot by six and Brawl increased it by seven. If the pattern continues, we could be seeing 29 starters in the next game.

This further supports my theory of us getting at least 44 character slots because every game, we have seen an increase of unlockable characters (Not percentage, but in number). If we get twenty nine starters in SSB4, I can guarantee that we will be seeing at least 44 characters total because there's no point in dropping the amount of unlockable characters with a larger roster.

Granted, this is something to take with a grain of salt, but I just wanted to bring this up and see what you think of it.
 

Sai Winner of Games

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Word is that Nintendo wants to design games to need only 1 WiiU controller. While the WiiU could have multiple screen controllers, its not something they seem to be pushing. The article is here.

I think its safe to say that for a multiplayer game like smash this would mean the WiiU controller will not be the sole control option for the game. If the WiiU controller is used at all, I don't think they could add in some new mechanic that doesn't work on the other controllers. The control options for SSB4 might end up being similar to Brawl's. I hope this includes some sort of gamecube-like controller.
 

Shorts

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This guy brought up a good point in regards to the starting roster.

What he said was that in every game since Melee, we got more of a starting slot increase. Melee increased the starting slot by six and Brawl increased it by seven. If the pattern continues, we could be seeing 29 starters in the next game.
I certainly hope not. If we learned anything from brawl than we would know the more hidden characters, the better. AND, the more hidden newcomers, the better. Brawl did poorly on that last part.
 

refugee

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Also, Balloon Fighter (I WISH!!) was a character created for melee but they couldn't get the physics right for flight, but he wasn't placed into Brawl, doubt we will see him. Though Tingle would in theory have the same physics and with Zelda on its 25th anniversary I could legit actually see Tingle as a theoretical possibility.
Mach Rider, Urban Champion, Bubbles, and the Excite Biker were other classic characters that didn't make it. The one who did though was Ice climber.
I certainly hope not. If we learned anything from brawl than we would know the more hidden characters, the better. AND, the more hidden newcomers, the better. Brawl did poorly on that last part.
Yup. I couldn't believe so many of the newcomers in Brawl were also starters while characters that have been in the series since it's inception were still hidden. : \

Another thing was how easy it was to unlock all the characters compared to Melee. All you had to do was beat SSE and you had all the characters pretty much. Melee on the other hand required you to do a multitude of tasks.
 
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This guy brought up a good point in regards to the starting roster.

What he said was that in every game since Melee, we got more of a starting slot increase. Melee increased the starting slot by six and Brawl increased it by seven. If the pattern continues, we could be seeing 29 starters in the next game.
I certainly hope not. If we learned anything from brawl than we would know the more hidden characters, the better. AND, the more hidden newcomers, the better. Brawl did poorly on that last part.
This is why I predict that the majority of the newcomers will be unlockable in the next Smash. Melee had most of it's new characters unlockable whereas Brawl didn't. We should also expect at least 15 unlockable characters in the next Smash and I imagine that the original twelve will be upgraded to starting characters so that newcomers can take their place.

That said, I don't think this applies to third-party characters as I think they will be revealed on the Dojo regardless of we have to unlock them or not.
 

Steam

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Please shut up and stop trolling.
you take this so seriously. and rage at people who don't agree with you <3

but IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, yeah the only one that is almost certainly male is lucario because the game says so sometimes... the rest could be either/or. I usually actually consider them all male except for jiggz and ivysaur. though jiggz is probably too manly to be female.

also all pokemon are female 100% of the time
 

Shorts

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This is why I predict that the majority of the newcomers will be unlockable in the next Smash. Melee had most of it's new characters unlockable whereas Brawl didn't. We should also expect at least 15 unlockable characters in the next Smash and I imagine that the original twelve will be upgraded to starting characters so that newcomers can take their place.

That said, I don't think this applies to third-party characters as I think they will be revealed on the Dojo regardless of we have to unlock them or not.
Oh the Dojo >:/ I still like the idea of Sakurai just doing a longer version of his fanmail reading.

If anything I think we should have 1-2 newcomers be playable, and possibly Jiggs and Luigi be hidden, because let's just look it this logically, Jiggs has every reason and all likelyhood to return.

@reffy

I am a die hard fan of the way Mewtwo had to be unlocked. I love impossible tasks like that.
 

refugee

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you take this so seriously. and rage at people who don't agree with you <3

but IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, yeah the only one that is almost certainly male is lucario because the game says so sometimes... the rest could be either/or. I usually actually consider them all male except for jiggz and ivysaur. though jiggz is probably too manly to be female.

also all pokemon are female 100% of the time
No, I don't take this seriously but that doesn't mean I'll tolerate stupidity. And I don't rage at people who disagree with me, I rage at people who try to argue their opinion with faulty arguments. Do you see me raging when people say that Chibi Robo/Sukapon doesn't have a high chance of making it into SSB4? How about when they don't include them in their dream roster? Nope, no raging there.


@reffy

I am a die hard fan of the way Mewtwo had to be unlocked. I love impossible tasks like that.
Lol, I wouldn't say that was really hard to do but it was a nice surprise to discover after playing the game for that amount of time.
 
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Oh the Dojo >:/ I still like the idea of Sakurai just doing a longer version of his fanmail reading.

If anything I think we should have 1-2 newcomers be playable, and possibly Jiggs and Luigi be hidden, because let's just look it this logically, Jiggs has every reason and all likelyhood to return.
I have to agree on that we should only have 1-2 newcomers playable from the start therefore those who don't want the roster spoiled entirely won't have to worry about hidden characters being spoiled. I'm getting the feeling that Sakurai is going to be doing this after a lack of hidden newcomers in Brawl.

My opinion: It should be all of the Brawl Cast + the four originals hidden in Brawl + one or two newcomers (Saki and Little Mac).

Not sure why you think Jigglypuff and Luigi should be unlockable. We know the original twelve will almost certainly return so might as well make them available from the start and focus the unlockable characters on newcomers and Melee/Brawl unlockable characters. Luigi can give his spot to Bowser Jr./Toad/Paper Mario for the hidden Mario character and Jigglypuff can give it to a second Pokemon newcomer (If it happens).

Also, I agree that characters need to be much harder to unlock. If we can unlock them by matches, it should be 100 matches per character (If there's fifteen unlockables, the last character would need 1,500 matches to unlock).
 

Steam

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there have been way more faulty arguments that you haven't chewed out. if mine was even faulty in the first place... also you be ragin

methinks you're just a hater >:D

who is ragin.

also all pokemon are female 100% of the time
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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For a starting roster, I'd say half of the roster are starters; the other half are unlockables. Mario Kart Wii utilized that tactic effectively.

Here's an example, using my previously posted roster image (post #4827), with half of the roster slots displaying question marks.



50 characters (transformations excluded); 25 starters; 25 unlockables
 

Big-Cat

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Oh my ****ing god.
Pieman, Smash-Bros_Guy, respect for your dedication and you're both cool guys, but seriously, some of these conversations are absolutely mind boggling in how serious and long they get :p

:phone:
This. I'm more amazed how some of the conversations actually go for more than a few posts.

Why do people think I'm taking this overly serious? :V

Debate is just something you do in these types of topics. Just ignore it if you don't care for it. V:
Debate can be fun and all, but it's not like you have to get into every single one.
 
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Mario_And_Sonic_Guy said:
For a starting roster, I'd say half of the roster are starters; the other half are unlockables. Mario Kart Wii utilized that tactic effectively.
I like this idea. Personally, I think the best way to handle a roster is to have a half or more of the characters you have to unlock for longer replay value, but I'm predicting that as with past games, the majority of the characters will be made available from the start.
 

Shorts

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Tingle is theoretical only, not going to happen!!

:phone:
Too bad we really don't have another truely outstanding Zelda character. Besides TooncloneZelda. People need to look past the freakin' hate on some characters. I only permit hate for Waluigi, because he's an idiot.

@Reffy

Just ignore him. Anyways, I think it's safe to say playing 900 brawls wasn't easy!
 

refugee

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there have been way more faulty arguments that you haven't chewed out. if mine was even faulty in the first place... also you be ragin

methinks you're just a hater >:D

who is ragin.

also all pokemon are female 100% of the time
Yes your argument is faulty.

You: Hits mean that the character is well liked/relevant.

Me: Hits can mean anything ranging from love to hate to not knowing who the character is.

You: It can work the opposite way too.

Me: How can it work the opposite way when I just listed all the possibilities?

You then either don't respond or ignore what I said and repeat your argument even though I showed how it is a fallacy.
 
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