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New Toon Link Matchup Thread

N

NH Cody

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So I have some new thoughts on Marth.

His side of the MU is sooo much easier than ours. Like, for real. It's crazy how easy he has it. I played a few TLs as Marth and wow, either they were really bad or it's just wicked easy for marth. I guess it's like TL vs D3 in the sense that one mistake potentially costs a stock. It's harder for TL but I still think it's even since we have certain advantages like projectiles and zair. But he pressures so well, and you don't even have the time to think about what he's going to do next, and if you mess up for even a second he could gimp you or combo you. So I have to rethink this matchup lol

/random rant
 
demonictoonlink

demonictoonlink

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Yeah guys what the ****?

It's been so long since I've looked here, but we're even with Marth now? Even with DDD? EVEN WITH WARIO, FALCO AND OLIMAR?

No offense, but that's ********.
 
N

NH Cody

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TL's a lot better than you think he is...is all.

Really

lol

Falco has these gimmicks that you just have to look out for and avoid/punish. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9IVOsvEOwk)
Olimar is (pretty much) free. Not that hard. Nair > FF/QD works like a charm. You can keep nairing until he's thrown all his pikmin at you and you've killed them all, then exploit the time he needs to pluck new ones. And throw an occasional boomerang/full hopped bomb in there to pressure him.
D-free is ez. Just don't mess up and even if you do, he'll just grab you. If you're worried about being attacked then just shield, fthrow won't kill you lol. There's a few reasons why we can call this even, if you want we could talk more about the details.
Wario is hard IMO. I don't know if I agree with Jash when he says this is even. Or maybe it's just because I haven't really played any good warios + I don't know the matchup.
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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I would kind of agree with DDD, Marth, and maybe Olimar being even, but Falco is definitely not even. It's definitely in his advantage. What helps with a lot of these characters is our ability to counterpick stages that'll give us the advantage. DDD can't chain grab you far in Norfair, nor can he chase you around in the air. Falco is always forced to phantasm on the stage in Frigate, and his recovery gets kind of hindered in stages like Delfino. Olimar suffers with RC's ledgeless platforms and is constantly forced to jump and move around. Marth I don't really know, but don't take him to Battlefield.

Also, it's important to note that there are some matchups that purely depend on who gains the momentum, for example, DK and Ike. If TL gains the camping momentum and doesn't let either of them approach, then we'll probably end up winning. If DK/Ike are able to land enough hits on us and gain some momentum after that, then they could win it too. MU's like that make me feel like it's even, because the tables could turn either way.
 
Thebest1pj

Thebest1pj

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~Quest~ said:
TL's a lot better than you think he is...is all.

Really

lol

Falco has these gimmicks that you just have to look out for and avoid/punish. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9IVOsvEOwk)
Olimar is (pretty much) free. Not that hard. Nair > FF/QD works like a charm. You can keep nairing until he's thrown all his pikmin at you and you've killed them all, then exploit the time he needs to pluck new ones. And throw an occasional boomerang/full hopped bomb in there to pressure him.
D-free is ez. Just don't mess up and even if you do, he'll just grab you. If you're worried about being attacked then just shield, fthrow won't kill you lol. There's a few reasons why we can call this even, if you want we could talk more about the details.
Wario is hard IMO. I don't know if I agree with Jash when he says this is even. Or maybe it's just because I haven't really played any good warios + I don't know the matchup.
Click to expand...
olimar,falco,wario all beat tl
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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I'm more curious on the Wario matchup though. I don't play that match up at all, so I really have no idea.
 
Hist

Hist

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What do the TL boards say about Ike.
i've been thinking 45-55 in TL favor but not sure if what i know is enough to say that, what's you all's 2 cents in the Match up?
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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What are your bad matchups?

@Hist IMO the Ike MU is even. It depends on who gets the momentum. If TL can keep Ike under control with his camping, he wins. If Ike lands a hit, it'll do a lot of damage and put you in a bad spot. If he gets the momentum, he'll win.
 
Flutter NiTE

Flutter NiTE

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Twinkie said:
What are your bad matchups?

@Hist IMO the Ike MU is even. It depends on who gets the momentum. If TL can keep Ike under control with his camping, he wins. If Ike lands a hit, it'll do a lot of damage and put you in a bad spot. If he gets the momentum, he'll win.
Click to expand...
Marth, diddy, and the occasional gnw. (Gnw is just me personally)
 
QUIVO

QUIVO

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Has anyone been messing with the Single banana lock against diddy as TL?

I think Zair to SBL works at low percent. If someone could test this on a live person that'd be great.

To do it:

Airdodge with banana in hand to zair > jump/dthrow over diddy > recatch with airdodge > buffer turnaround > standing dthrow > jump/insta-throw down > recatch with airdodge > etc etc etc.

Tips: You have to stay really close to diddy when you're doing the lock, so i think you kinda have to buffer the movement with the airdodge so you fall close enough to him. If you're too far he'll either do a slip (not trip) or will just sit there.
 
MJG

MJG

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Falco isn't even.

Olimar is only even if the opponent understands the MU.

TLs not amazing but hes not a bad character.

And it is easier said than done to say that a MU is free for TL if he doesn't mess up. But we are all human...so I doubt it would be possible to not make a mistake.

EDIT: That is interesting Quivo. I am gonna have to look into that. I wish I knew about it before today though. I was by a diddy main in our crew before I made it back in Olathe, Kansas.
 
napZzz

napZzz

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the top tier matchups on this chart are pretty twisted as to what they should be
 
QUIVO

QUIVO

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I still think Falco is at least 6-4, maybe 7/3

Olimar, I don't know. I feel as if Olimar has the advantage, but not a great one.
 
WindMajor

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I personally think that the Falco MU is to his advantage, but anything above 6-4 seems off IMO, since stages work so well for us in our favor. I don't think it's even, but I'd really like to hear on what you guys think of it.

With Olimar, I could still see it as even, or maybe slight advantage to Olimar. He makes us change our game a lot, which makes it seem like he has the advantage, but once you actually learn how to play an Olimar, it's quite even.

What I really want to know more about is Wario, since I've yet to fight one in tournament, and I feel like I will eventually.
 
MaskedAvnger

MaskedAvnger

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With Wario, it pretty much comes down to who gets the first kill. Both of us camp really hard. I would say Wario's advantage because he kills easier and dat fart kills us really early.
 
QUIVO

QUIVO

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Btw, I don't think Zair to SBL will work.

Some of my setups as Diddy for the SBL really didn't work out as well as I was hoping. They would probably be able to shield the banana toss.
 
WindMajor

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The best way to start a SBL is to get your opponent on his back, like if he were tripped. In other words, you can either magically get control of both bananas and throw one at him, quickly grab the other, and SBL, or you could do an attack that'll push your opponent off a platform, and when the enemy falls to the ground (on his back, assuming he didn't do anything else), you can SBL.
 
QUIVO

QUIVO

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Yea, but the spacing would have to be tight for us. We don't have a glide toss like diddy does, so we can't really close the gap.
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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That's true. I'd need to test this out in order to give you a better response I guess.
 
KazeKun

KazeKun

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I dont understand, why we dont talk about Shiek. No Shieks on your area xD?

I mean Shiek is a horrible Match-Up for us. She can combo us like nothing, and all who saw me versus Armada would know its ****. (The Fact was that i had a bet to instant kill him with d-smash). But the thing is she is fast, our proectile game is useless against her, even Bombs and you can Gimp us with her BAIR. omg please

When we will talk about her?
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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We did back in 2009. Ooooh that was a funny MU discussion.

I guess we can throw her on the list. I won't participate though, because I use Kirby against Sheik/Zelda.
 
Thebest1pj

Thebest1pj

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KazeKun said:
I dont understand, why we dont talk about Shiek. No Shieks on your area xD?

I mean Shiek is a horrible Match-Up for us. She can combo us like nothing, and all who saw me versus Armada would know its ****. (The Fact was that i had a bet to instant kill him with d-smash). But the thing is she is fast, our proectile game is useless against her, even Bombs and you can Gimp us with her BAIR. omg please

When we will talk about her?
Click to expand...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRFFkUhMLAk


hope that helps
 
MJG

MJG

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I think we discussed a bunch of people 3 months ago ha.


I actually asked Paw and Shike/Shlike (Don't know how to spell) about the MU not too long ago because I don't know the MU as well.

ZSS and 1 or 2 others cant be discussed...
 
WindMajor

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I say we fill in some gaps. Someone requested Sheik, and I'm recommending Sonic, since he's been getting some recognition lately.
 
N

NH Cody

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lmao KT is kind of right. Except for a few wackos like ZSS, MK, Falco and maybe Olimar.

Sonic is different but once you catch on to his shenanigans you can beat him. Just don't let him get up close at all ever. And of course the same old stuff about not getting predictable with camping or else he'll get in close. use lots of zair, too.

The Marth MU also has a few oddities such as having to zair a lot more and play around at the edge.

But other than that they're pretty much the same :laugh:
 
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