News: Garchomp is banned from OU as of today

[0RLY]

Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3593031&postcount=76

I nearly forgot that DetroitLolcat PMed me his vote! Here are the contents of the PM:

I will probably not be active for the Pokemon part of the Round 4 Vote and you said I could PM my vote to you, so I vote Do Not Ban on every Suspect regardless of condition. Thank you.

This vote seals the fate of Thundurus, and thus every Suspect has been resolved.

The final vote for Garchomp is 55-17 Ban; this exceeds the 2/3+1 supermajority, and thus Garchomp will henceforth be banned from OU play.

The final vote for Thundurus is 46-26 Ban; this is short of the 2/3+1 supermajority, so Thundurus will automatically be a Suspect next period, and could be banned with another simple majority vote.

The final vote for Latios is 27-45 Do Not Ban; Latios is thus completely OU.

The final vote for Deoxys-e is 23-51 Do Not Ban; Deoxys-e is thus completely OU.

The final vote for Excadrill is 17-57 Do Not Ban; Excadrill is thus completely OU.

This concludes round four of the OU Suspect process!

So, what are your thoughts on this?

I personally feel Garchomp should stay OU. The voters on Smogon didn't have to submit a reason along with their vote so I'm not 100% sure why Garchomp was so ban worthy. If it's Sand Veil, wouldn't that be a better choice to ban rather than the Pokemon? 102 speed isn't a problem with so many fast Pokemon available, especially considering Latios is just as strong and faster. Bulk might be it, but I'd much rather uses Dragonite and Salamence's ability coupled with roost if I wanted a bulky dragon. The strongest of these points seems to be Sand Veil. So, I don't see why they just ban the ability instead of the Pokemon.

Same with Blaziken. Just his DW ability should be banned. Not the Pokemon.

 

[Gates]

Oh Smogon, I can always count on you to do something silly.

 

[UltiMario]

Calling it right now.

Within two rounds he'll be unbanned.

Also Gates what happened to you "leaving" lol

 

[CT Chia]

I'm more outraged at Blaziken being banned

 

[0RLY]

Abilities are more overpowering than the Pokemon itself, amirite?

 

[fkacyan]

I can't be the only math major who was infuriated that it was written as 2/3+1 and not (2/3)+1.

 

[Zankoku]

Smogon likes to keep rules "simple" and ban Pokémon in their entirety rather than a specific ability.
I have no idea how this simplicity helps gameplay at all.

 

[Gates]

I can't be the only math major who was infuriated that it was written as 2/3+1 and not (2/3)+1.

It's the same either way.

lrn2orderofoperations scrub

 

[CT Chia]

Smogon likes to keep rules "simple" and ban Pokémon in their entirety rather than a specific ability.
I have no idea how this simplicity helps gameplay at all.

Yea, except banning swift swim + drizzle is a slap to simple rules in the face

Solution, just ban rain and sun auto weather

 

[Daddy Ash]

Seems a bit odd that they'd ban garchomp from OU. Garchomp is out-sped, out-bulked and out-classed in offence by other dragons unbanned, the only real stand out feature Garchomp has over other dragons is sand veil, which begs the question why not ban the ability.
Seems since the new DW abilites and weather play strategies, that Smogon are on a witch hunt to ban all decent pokes that can flourish under one specific situation, rather than ban the one specific situation that allows the pokemon to flourish...strange logic indeed hmmm....

 

[Fuelbi]

This is why I quit pokemon. Smogon are full of idiots who don't know how to run a tier list and for some reason everybody was dumb enough to make these guys the authority on pokemon

 

[Zankoku]

Yea, except banning swift swim + drizzle is a slap to simple rules in the face

Solution, just ban rain and sun auto weather

Smogon also likes to be inconsistent about their criteria.

Except when it comes to Dragons. They always ban Dragons.

 

[Gates]

If I still played pokemon I'd tell you all to just play Ubers.

But I don't so instead I'm going to tell you all to go get jobs.

You lazy-*** freeloading sacks of turtle ****.

 

[Zankoku]

But I already have a job.

 

[-DR3W-]

Just ban the game so everyone can win.

 

[lordvaati]

well it was either him or Sandveil/Snow Cloak being under evasion Clause.

I no likey, but I support.

Solution, just ban rain and sun auto weather

Sun is Legit IMO, but rain can be pretty crazy sometimes.

 

[JesiahTEG]

i thought he was banned like 3 years ago lol

 

[lordvaati]

i thought he was banned like 3 years ago lol

in Gen 4.

he's banned in 5th gen now.

 

[Gates]

But I already have a job.

You work for the American branch of Konami, whose most notable endeavor is probably the phrase "Die monster! You don't belong in this world."

Clearly your career is too much fun to qualify as a job.

 

[Zankoku]

Enough talk! Have at you!

 

[Circa]

oh lawdy this game

And Smogon.

They literally banned everything that I never had ****ing issues with and left in all the **** that gave me issues. Like what the ****. This gen AND Smogon are stupid.

But I also used weird 4th gen teams that used Flygon and ****. :3 But I haven't played in forever so whatevsss.

 

[Gates]

This gen AND Smogon are stupid.

 

[Circa]

True. Edited for accuracy.

 

[Gates]

Everyone used Flygon in Gen IV after Salamence, Garchomp, and Latias were banned.

 

[mood4food77]

blaziken shouldn't be banned, him with speed boost should be, simple as that, it's seriously the only thing that makes him dumb

garchomp would be a little harder to just ban sand viel because that's his regular ability but i'm fairly certain it wouldn't affect his sets though

just ban all weather abusing abilities and the world would be happier

 

[Circa]

Everyone used Flygon in Gen IV after Salamence, Garchomp, and Latias were banned.

Oh no, I mean that I used 4th gen teams in 5th gen.

 

[Gates]

Oh.

...well that's just stupid.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Garchomp banned from gen 4
OU suspect in Gen 5
Back to banned in gen 5

lol the highs and lows

 

[Circa]

Oh.

...well that's just stupid.

Worked surprisingly well, believe it or not.

 

[Lit]

Just ban the game so everyone can win.

Yea I know right
But IMO I think this is ridiculous. It’s a new game & the same **** is happenein. Just let us play damn.

 

[Deleted member]

Smogon also likes to be inconsistent about their criteria.

Except when it comes to Dragons. They always ban Dragons.

I have taught you well, my son. You make me proud.

 

[Asdioh]

Abilities are more overpowering than the Pokemon itself, amirite?

YES. Why are they too ******** to see this?

"herp derp ban politoed" instead of drizzle, wtf?

Smogon likes to keep rules "simple" and ban Pokémon in their entirety rather than a specific ability.
I have no idea how this simplicity helps gameplay at all.

\(o_o)/


Why was Garchomp even banned? The only ones that give me any trouble are Scarfed ones... and if they're locked into EQ, switch in a levitator/flying type... if they're locked into a dragon type move like outrage, switch in a steel type/high defense pokemon.. it doesn't make any sense.


And imo all permaweather is simply OP and the metagame would be weather with it all gone, but maybe that's just my opinion.

 

[mood4food77]

sun and hail teams are far from broken:
sun abusing pokemon usually have poor type coverage and/or bad typings
hail abusing pokemon don't exist, walrein is the only true abuser and he sucks, everything else just abuses blizzard while having a really bad defensive typing

SS and rain abusers have better typings and movepools tha those who abuse the other weathers

 

[MK26]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3586719&postcount=76

Smogon seems to disagree with the common opinion here

 

[Zankoku]

What is the common opinion here?

 

[MK26]

oh, i just saw a few people here saying its better to ban abilities than pokemon, and figured its a pertty common notion (as i dont think anyone's disagreed so far) and then i checked smogons forums and saw that they decided not to ban weather

so what appears to be our opinion != what appears to be their opinion

 

[Enzo]

SWF isn't smogon...they're not gonna base their opinions off of us.

I actually agree with them in banning pokemon over abilities. banning abilities lacks sense
Also raging about this is just stupid because said pokemon politoed and blaziken abilities make or break the pokemon (as far as OU)
Chomp is a overpowered poke regardless of sand veil but the Veil gives it so that no pokemon can consistently revenge it
also chomp's secondary ability is DW....and hasnt even been released.

But more importantly,
who still plays on smogon trololololo

 

[Zankoku]

Would you prefer playing on PO, where the ability Drizzle is banned?

Note that banning an ability and causing it to become crippled in OU still makes it a possibly strong option in UU, while banning the Pokémon altogether forces it into Ubers.

 

[Asdioh]

I actually agree with them in banning pokemon over abilities. banning abilities lacks sense

Uh? What kind of explanation for why we shouldn't ban abilities is that? Almost every pokemon has more than one ability. Banning the entire pokemon BECAUSE IT CAN USE ONE CERTAIN ABILITY just deprives players of the option to use said pokemon.

For example, I used Ninetales in 4th gen, before it had Drought. What if they decided Drought was overpowered, and therefore banned Ninetales? That would be pretty unfair to me, who likes to use Flash Fire Ninetales, wouldn't it? Same with Politoed.

And what if they decided Sand Stream was overpowered? Would they ban Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Hippototas, despite the fact that they're perfectly usable with their other abilities? :/

And Speed Boost Blaziken makes me sad, but I don't think it's bannable.

 

[0RLY]

What is rain without swift swim?

Pretty much... nothing.

I'm sure we'd all rather Damp Rock+Rain Dance to use Swift Swim over the former.

EDIT:
Speed Boost Blaziken does really stupid things. It can sweep AND Baton Pass. Very few Pokemon can do both as successfully as Blaziken. Those who can can't do it with as much ease. Sub up in front of Ferrothorn and go to town. It's also not that hard to anticipate your opponent predicting Protect and subbing against it. He starts Baton Pass chains all by himself, like Ninjask, but can also end one. Even without Baton Pass, people will play against with that move always on mind. Have you seen how much hurt +2 STAB HJK or Blitz does? Enough for him to be banned before Garchomp.

EDIT2:
Garchomp, SB Blaziken, ST Chandelure, SW+Drizzle are ALL counterable. Just too difficult, I suppose. Most rain teams fold to Empoleon after losing Zapdos or Washtom. Chandelure forced you to use prediction (like Stone Edge Breloom) to beat it or use a Shed Shell. Blaziken is beaten by Unaware Quagsire. Garchomp is also beaten by Unaware Quagsire as well as Trace Eviolite Porygon2. As you can probably imagine, my PO team before all the bannings used excessive amounts of substitute to combat the heavy offense nature of the game.