NO KOAST v3 - 3/13-14, Wichita, KS

[DMG]

Balanced? No. Competitive? Yes.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

EDIT: When you put it like that DMG, I can understand why ArkiveZero and other brawlers decided to quit. This game isn't as competitive as others >_>

Nothing personal against you, but that is bull****.

People who quit because "brawl is less competitive" are just whining because they don't want to take the effort to learn how to adapt. Go play Melee or whatever game you want, fine by me, but don't act all high and mighty just because you don't like the "lack of combos" or "lack of skill" or whatever other dumb ****ing reason you want to make up to excuse your own lack of ambition.

Brawl is a very competitive game and just as balanced as just about any other competitive fighter. If you think Metaknight or planking or whatever is "so unbalanced", then you probably don't know anything about how EVERY FIGHTING GAME EVER actually works.

There's nothing wrong with "playing gay" and EVERY FIGHTING GAME has it, despite people in this community for some reason thinking that it's a Brawl exclusive or something.

If no one ever "did gay stuff" then the game would never evolve and it wouldn't be a true competition to begin with.

There are always high tiers, there are always infinites, etc. There are so many babies in this community who don't know anything about fighting games and just whine and never actually try to learn or get better.

I have no idea how so many people are so delusional that they think banning everything under the sun is a good idea, rather than letting the metagame evolve on its own as it is meant to...

 

[MJG]

Nothing personal against you, but that is bull****.

People who quit because "brawl is less competitive" are just whining because they don't want to take the effort to learn how to adapt. Go play Melee or whatever game you want, fine by me, but don't act all high and mighty just because you don't like the "lack of combos" or "lack of skill" or whatever other dumb ****ing reason you want to make up to excuse your own lack of ambition.

Lol..I stopped reading right here. My character has PLENTY of "combos/strings" (some that even go up to 60%). Im sure ArkiveZero knew way more about this game than you ever will and I never played melee competitively because I suck at it. I never ONCE complained about the combo's in this game XD. Learn. To. Read.

OH! How was I acting high and mighty? I honestly don't even know where that came. Give me a logical answer for your reasoning behind saying this please.

EDIT: I finished reading your post. I play very gay actually and im sure that anyone that has played me can vouch on this. Thanks for jumping to conclusions ^_^

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I know you play well, I've played you, it was fun and you're good. I'm not attacking you as a player but your reasoning for saying that people should quit this game is just ridiculous.

Doesn't mean I hate you, just means that I really disagree with you on that stance

 

[MJG]

I know you play well, I've played you, it was fun and you're good. I'm not attacking you as a player but your reasoning for saying that people should quit this game is just ridiculous.

I would like to point out, once again, that I never said that people "should" quit the game. I just "know" that there reasoning behind quitting the game in the first place is because of aspects of the game that frustrate them (Such as planking).

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I would like to point out, once again, that I never said that people "should" quit the game. I just "know" that there reasoning behind quitting the game in the first place is because of aspects of the game that frustrate them (Such as planking).

Yeah, I just really have no tolerance for that train of thought, since it goes against the whole point of playing a competitive fighting game...


Anyway, I suppose I will go to bed. I've been up since 6am unloading canned food in the cold so I'm probably crankier than usual Sorry.

 

[AlphaZealot]

The Ohio Circuit Championships Ruleset

Featured:
-No rules on edge grabs
-No rules on planking
-No rules on stalling

And had:
-Zero problems

There is a "stalling" rule in every ruleset that does not need to exist, because it has not once been enforced to any legitimate grounds.

There are plankings rules in many rulesets that does not need to exist, because the rule cannot be enforced in 99% of planking situations. Even when it should be enforced, in almost every situation there will not be a judge around and most lack the sense to pause a match and call one over. This is only exasperated by the fact that many TO's enter their own tournament and could be in the middle of a tourney match of their own.

There are edge grab rules in many rulesets that do not need to exist, because the rule they use is set to such high boundaries (50 usually, 40 to) that it does not prevent the very thing it was designed to prevent.

I can't believe I am the only one who realizes this.

 

[Owndizzl3r_Ownag3]

this is interesting

 

[Teh Future]

The Ohio Circuit Championships Ruleset

Featured:
-No rules on edge grabs
-No rules on planking
-No rules on stalling

And had:
-Zero problems

There is a "stalling" rule in every ruleset that does not need to exist, because it has not once been enforced to any legitimate grounds.

There are plankings rules in many rulesets that does not need to exist, because the rule cannot be enforced in 99% of planking situations.

There are edge grab rules in many rulesets that do not need to exist, because the rule they use is set to such high boundaries that it does not prevent the very thing it was designed to prevent.

I can't believe I am the only one who realizes this.

Rulesets don't need to limit planking. It happens in >01% of tournament matches and I'm pretty sure that everyone wanting an edgegrab limit has never been timed out by a mk planking.

You guys are so dumb. for real.

*quits and plays DKC2*

 

[MetalMusicMan]

lol future <3

 

[CT Chia]

Again, almost none of you even know how often someone grabs the edge, not even ROB players who also think they grab far more often then they actually do, and yet you think 50 or even 40 is a low number. They aren't, they are absurdly HIGH numbers, and setting the edge grab limit to 50 means you might as well not even have the rule, since it will never come into effect planking or otherwise.

There is no need to say this point. You have time and time again, and guess what, there are people out there (myself included) that check ledge grabs after many matches to keep track of it for the sake of arguing with knowledge intact knowing what were talking about.

If you have it set to 25, you will stop planking near 100% while effecting maybe .01% of other match ups. And even that is an exaggeration, because matches have to time out, and you can't time someone out easily without likewise planking them (in which case both parties would break the 25 rule and you just reward the winner by percent/stock as normal).

Setting it as low as like 25 your hampering game play that has nothing to do with stalling. Whether it be Olimar doing ledge tricks with ledge grabs to get onto the stage effectively (or any tether character really), or players using it for edgeguarding, etc. I know it's low because I'm looking at it from a numerical point of view. In a 8 minute match with a 25 limit your allowed one ledge grab every 19.2 seconds. That is absurd. How is any more than that bannable!?!?

Also, how is not playing the ledge viable against a character like Ice Climbers who once you are on the stage you can get 0-deathed from a single grab.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I just chose a match of you vs Ice Climbers, the first one that showed up on youtube when you sort be date (aka most recent): You vs Ninjalink
You grabbed the edge 18 times.
Ninjalink's Ice Climbers grabbed the edge 3 times.

It was Halberd, so you had a couple extra options like going under the stage, but still, not over 25, and even if you were somehow over 25 (which would not occur until 5-6 minutes into the match and likely when both you and the opponent are at or approaching your last stocks) the Ice Climbers would have had to find someway to survive for 2-3 whole minutes with just 1 stock and terrible edge/off the stage options.

There are TWO things that have to happen for this rule to come into effect:
1) You have to get over 25 edge grabs and your opponent has to realize this. This is a feet in itself that would require your opponents focus for 4-5 minutes on just keeping a count going. Chances of this occurring successfully, on average, would probably be under .01%.
2) After you get over 25 edge grabs your opponent would have to implement a strategy that would allow him to run out the clock for several minutes with only a single stock (maybe 2 with high damage) to play with. Chances of this occuring successfully, on average, would probably be .01% (its never happened, ever, with edge grab rules in effect at many tournaments now, so I would say this is actually generous).

Which would mean the chances of you getting boned by this rule without intentionally grabbing the edge and planking would be like .0001%.

Finally, all this has to happen while you, the player, is aware of the rule and actively attempting to minimize the number of edge grabs you make by cutting out pointless/useless edge grabs. We all make pointless, voluntary edge grabs (in the video I watched about 1/3rd of your grabs were not forced or part of your recovery, but were instead voluntary) and cutting them out would not hurt your game (it may even improve it because wasting time on the edge puts you in a bad position unless you are MK, I love catching people who waste time on the edge with peanuts as Diddy, for example, cause its usually a free 2-4 hits and 10-15% damage, all because they needlessly dropped off the edge when they could have rolled, jumped, or done a get up attack).

---

Chibo, I believe you when you say you check your edge grabs. However, you main ROB, and we already know on average ROB grabs far more then most characters. Most of the people freaking out about this rule are not checking their edge grabs, and I think you know this is true.

 

[Typ_Ex]

Rulesets don't need to limit planking. It happens in >01% of tournament matches and I'm pretty sure that everyone wanting an edgegrab limit has never been timed out by a mk planking.

You guys are so dumb. for real.

*quits and plays DKC2*

didnt you see my match vs lil will last NK?

I just chose a match of you vs Ice Climbers, the first one that showed up on youtube when you sort be date (aka most recent): You vs Ninjalink
You grabbed the edge 18 times.
Ninjalink's Ice Climbers grabbed the edge 3 times.

It was Halberd, so you had a couple extra options like going under the stage, but still, not over 25, and even if you were somehow over 25 (which would not occur until 5-6 minutes into the match and likely when both you and the opponent are at or approaching your last stocks) the Ice Climbers would have had to find someway to survive for 2-3 whole minutes with just 1 stock and terrible edge/off the stage options.

.

I just watched one of his older videos against a guy named rookie, grabbed ledge <4times.

 

[AlphaZealot]

How about some videos come up where
1) The match timed out
2) The edge grab was over 25
3) There was no planking

Or, benefit of the doubt
1) There was under 1 minute left in the match and the opponent had a completely fresh 1 stock (so that we could assume the match would time out)
2) The edge grab was over 25
3) There was no planking

In other words, lets see some evidence to back up statements about this effecting non-planking.

It shouldn't be that hard to find.

 

[hunger!]

AZ. i hope you're thinking of going to this tourney since you're posting about all this edge ****. otherwise. not really needed.

 

[CT Chia]

Then according to you guys if its not even a problem then why is there a rule in the first place?

Compare it to a match vs Lain (NLs ICs rly arent that great tbh) at Genesis where I won by time out and played it smart and only got grabbed once (unfortunately) and won, but with about 80 ledge grabs in the process.

I actually have a good match in mind of me I would link here of me v Rogue Pit that went to the timer, but that was on my old YouTube account. Oh actually, I have an idea of a match.

 

[CT Chia]

How about some videos come up where
1) The match timed out
2) The edge grab was over 25
3) There was no planking

Even though it's a little close to your 25 limit,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG9A0KZz_YI

Tourney match, ledge grab limit was enforced at this tourney.

I won by time out with 26 ledge grabs. I doubt you'll say I won by "planking"

I played on the stage a lot in this match being scared that I would accidentally go over the limit (I don't remember the limit and I'm not taking any chances of possibly losing, and I cant keep track of my ledge grabs during the match).

Notice though whenever I rack up all of my ledge grabs. It's as I said earlier, it's when I had to recover and get onto the ledge, I had to ledge camp for a little bit waiting for him to mess up so I could get back on the stage, and I always took the open opportunity to get back on when I could (also note the use of the Smashville platform as I also mentioned before in this thread). However, after a bit I would sometimes choose to come up anyway so I wouldn't accumulate too many ledge grabs in fear of hitting the limit (because if this was your tournament I would have lost) and everytime I got back up when I shouldn't have I got hit and punished because of ROB's poor on the ledge options.

 

[Typ_Ex]

you got increasingly campier throughout the match, especially when you realized you had the stock lead. I would have called it out on you given AZ's rules. Heck, you even let him hit you a copule of times after you came off of the platform from the 2nd stock.

I also like how you posted AZ's first set of rules.

 

[CT Chia]

ur saying I should have lost that? thats ridiculous. I played a little campier because it was 3rd match in a tourney. Gotta do what ya gotta do to win. What is up with people and rules these days.

 

[Typ_Ex]

im just saying i would have called planking on you, regardless of the ledge grab limit. than again, im falco. i can't punish **** for planking. at least perfect planking.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

ur saying I should have lost that? thats ridiculous. I played a little campier because it was 3rd match in a tourney. Gotta do what ya gotta do to win. What is up with people and rules these days.

No **** man. If you would have gotten called for planking that would be ridiculous. This is why "anti planking rules" are dumb and should never be instituted. Stalling and Planking in the manner most people "fear" them don't exist and these stupid rules are not enforceable or necessary.

There's nothing wrong with camping or planking or playing gay or any of that. All of that is the essence of competitive play.

"hurt durt dur, let's force people to run onto the stage and get infinite grabbed and die because 'planking is gay'"

lmfao

 

[Affinity]

>>>Vote on whether or not there should be a Ledge Grab Limit Here<<<

 

[Typ_Ex]

"hurt durt dur, let's force people to run onto the stage and get infinite grabbed and die because 'planking is gay'"

lmfao

who has that ability? ill tell you its not falco....or sonic for that matter since you're quoting chibo.

 

[MJG]

This is kind of getting out of hand now >_>

 

[L_Cancel]

This tourney is a possibility for me. x:

 

[Affinity]

The Ledge Grab Limit discussion has moved to the other thread linked above.

Let's get this hyped up again!

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Hype Hype Hype Hype Hype Hype Hhhyyyyypppppeeeee!!!!

 

[Affinity]

Anyone wanna MM? I haven't improved at all since NKv2

 

[MJG]

This tourney is a possibility for me. x:

OH EM GEE EL CANCEL!

You have to come

Affinity is lying!!! He want's your money

 

[Fino]

BLACK PEOPLE!

OMG!

HYPE!


~Fino

 

[Affinity]

BLACK PEOPLE!

OMG!

HYPE!


~Fino

 

[Stealth Raptor]

MELEE AT :O you better be coming

 

[L_Cancel]

xD I hope I can come Mjg and stealth. It's so early though I can't be 100% sure yet O: and it depends if I'm able to ride with other MI people and stuff. lol

 

[Fino]

 

[fragbait]

I'd get grabbed by that

 

[lain]

Then according to you guys if its not even a problem then why is there a rule in the first place?

Compare it to a match vs Lain (NLs ICs rly arent that great tbh) at Genesis where I won by time out and played it smart and only got grabbed once (unfortunately) and won, but with about 80 ledge grabs in the process.

I actually have a good match in mind of me I would link here of me v Rogue Pit that went to the timer, but that was on my old YouTube account. Oh actually, I have an idea of a match.

We've never played.

O_O the hell you talkin bout boy

 

[CT Chia]

You were probably high lol, we played a couple of friendlies at Genesis and went 1-1, though the match I won I had to do about 80 ledge grabs in the process lol

Either way, not sure if this is fit for this thread of the ledge grab thread,

but proposition to remove the ledge grab rule and replace it with AlphaZealot's new Anti-Planking and Anti-Scrooging rules.

 

[UTDZac]

You can always tell when someone just copies the SBR rule set without reading it over first when you see this:

"Any infinite chain grabs most end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling."

 

[Affinity]

Fixed .

 

[Owndizzl3r_Ownag3]

colorado might come, but mostly not, probably just me