Official BBR Recommended Rule Set 3.1

[Juushichi]

I refuse to even consider using these rules until Distant Planet is removed.

I read this as: I refuse to even consider using these rules until one stage I will likely never play on is removed.

 

[Espy Rose]

no, just the last thread was all "we did lots of research and talked alot" and the vote count goes up by 30 in 3-4 days.

There are concerns about the amount of people who have actually voted on the stages. I'll start out by saying there's a somewhat skewed image as we've had many polls to narrow things down. The consensus order was constructed by including slightly older polls as well, effectively taking roughly 50 individual votes per stage into account. This is more than half the current membership. But yes, it's true that not all BBR members had a part in the creation of the rule set. The BBR frequently purges inactive members, but the weight lies with posts and reasoning rather than votes. The activity level isn't unhealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but it's always been true that there's a strong core group and that people don't join in on every project or ultimately vote when they do. Forcing the latter isn't expected to benefit the quality of debates and the decision-making process. Between the rule set, weekly character discussion, the upcoming tier list and other discussions without public releases, a large part of the member base does contribute frequently. We can only aim to remove the in-actives and draw in new active members.

Reading is good for you.
Also, it's not just the yellow part that should be read. Read through all of it again.

=====

@Juu: Don't tell him that he doesn't have to use that stage, or he might actually like it.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I refuse to even consider using these rules until Distant Planet is removed.

K, why?

Also, I really find it hilarious. The last ruleset was exactly the same ****ing thing as this, and this gets... no complaints, because it's sugar coated? Nobody's gonna pay attention to it either...

 

[uhmuzing]

Also, I really find it hilarious. The last ruleset was exactly the same ****ing thing as this, and this gets... no complaints, because it's sugar coated? Nobody's gonna pay attention to it either...

Ssshhh! You'll make people change their minds and start complaining again. ^^

 

[The Truth!]

I dont necessarily think stages with small ground area are that bad. For instance a stage like norfair without its hazards might be an excellent neutral that characters with good horizontal movement in the air and/or a decent projectile would do very well against versus characters with excellent aerials but who rely on their dash to get around. I think norfair even with its hazards is potentially a 'fairer' cp than brinstar.

 

[-Vocal-]

I'm glad you guys made this change in formatting; now people will be able to see what was in 3.0 all along

Edit: I'm very sad not to receive a personal mention for fighting the good fight in the public threads I'mma go cry.

I think you did a great job Inferno; you were one of the BBroomers who went out to try and explain things to people, and I really appreciate that

 

[Dajayman]

Lmao. This is almost exactly the same as 3.0, except that this is organized to look more appealing.

I will also have you know that IL/WI will only use the first set of counterpicks and a little from the second (Frigate, Brinstar, Pictochat, Rainbow Cruise). I hate that sterotype that all of midwest uses all the ******** stages.

 

[-Vocal-]

1) Appealing is misleading; it organized to make the intentions of 3.0 more clear.

2) The point of 3.0 and 3.1 is for regions to use whichever stages they like within the approved list.

3) Don't call stages ******** just because you prefer not to play on them.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Lmao. This is almost exactly the same as 3.0, except that this is organized to look more appealing.

I will also have you know that IL/WI will only use the first set of counterpicks and a little from the second (Frigate, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise) I hate that sterotype that all of midwest uses all the ******** stages.

Actually, you're fulfilling the stereotype I usually reserve for EC/WC-that you use a stupid, scrubby stagelist that refuses to adapt to anything. But carry on.

 

[lordhelmet]

Actually, you're fulfilling the stereotype I usually reserve for EC/WC-that you use a stupid, scrubby stagelist that refuses to adapt to anything. But carry on.

Says the wifi Brawl Minus player

 

[-Vocal-]

STOP THE FLAMING BEFORE IT BEGINS

Actually, you're fulfilling the stereotype I usually reserve for EC/WC-that you use a stupid, scrubby stagelist that refuses to adapt to anything. But carry on.

And YOU - don't start trouble by calling people scrubs. It will do NOTHING but start arguments.

 

[lordhelmet]

Vocal, I think you're forgetting that wifi Brawl Minus players reserve the right to call other people stupid scrubs.

 

[Dajayman]

BPC...

Enjoy your Brawl- wifi.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Actually, you're fulfilling the stereotype I usually reserve for EC/WC-that you use a stupid, scrubby stagelist that refuses to adapt to anything. But carry on.

You fulfill the stereotype of someone who has never gone to a tournament very nicely.

 

[Latias]

BPC...

Enjoy your Brawl- wifi.

you seriously are a scrub if you assort the second one, just use all of it.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

EDIT: Not worth it. Let's not derail the thread further.

 

[WindMajor]

Well the thread was good while it lasted.

Props again, to the BBR.

 

[Latias]

Well the thread was good while it lasted.

Props again, to the BBR.

I love how lordhelmet arrives right before you say this

 

[Blacknight99923]

Actually, you're fulfilling the stereotype I usually reserve for EC/WC-that you use a stupid, scrubby stagelist that refuses to adapt to anything. But carry on.

well to be fair you can't call the WC or EC stage list conservative. Its YOUR values of what makes a game more competitive with those stages, just like its ours that we prefer to use type 1 counterpicks . Its your buisness if you play on stages that you consider to be viable for competitive play.

but really while the person you quoted might have not been logical in his arguments flameing someone back isn't exactly called for and is counterproductive. Discussing the stages like mature individuals is warrented, but throwing words like we're 6th graders is going to get this thread locked. so please please provide an argument that isn't repeated a 100 times that isn't opinionated and I will happily debate this with you

 

[-Vocal-]

EDIT: Not worth it. Let's not derail the thread further.

Thank you, I appreciate your restraint

 

[Dajayman]

And we're supposed to take some random who insults us seriously? Work on your manners please BPC. You make me want to troll you.

 

[Latias]

And we're supposed to take some random who insults us seriously? Work on your manners please.

Jul 03: 9th of 12 in Random Teams at M.A.S. July Edition Winthrop Harbor IL
May 15: 5th of 8 in Brawl Doubles, 9th of 16 in Brawl Plus Singles at Don't Blink! 3
Apr 17: 17th of 21 in Brawl Plus Singles at Don't Blink! 2



you're random, thats not a term that should ever be used. If someone researches stages/the game overall but doesnt go to tournaments, you'd call them a random. lrn2getbetter

 

[lordhelmet]

I like how BPC edited his post of him defending himself after seeing what Panda said.

 

[Dajayman]

How cute. :3

Do you know all those things I paid $0-$1 to enter. Research your homework better.

 

[Latias]

How cute. :3

Do you know all those things I paid $0-$1 to enter. Research your homework better.

that doesnt mean anything. but
giant image removed

 

[-Vocal-]

I like how BPC edited his post of him defending himself after seeing what Panda said.

Why are you trying to troll this thread so much, why? Please, try to stay out of arguments - debates are fine and are the purpose of discussion, but arguments cause nothing but chaos and confusion.

 

[Dajayman]

Who are you Latias? *looks at join date and sig*

K.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Guys, cut the ****. This thread doesn't need it. If you aren't willing to be even remotely intelligent (or at least act the part), then you're not wanted here.

Anyways, I just posted this write-up on AiB. A little crass for here, but **** it, those scrubs make me ****ing rage. AiB is a slime-filled ****hole, I don't know why I bother. Anyways, take the insults with a grain of salt because, as said, wrote it for AiB.

Okay. From what I've seen, AiB is hardly worthwhile as 90% of you guys are too pants-on-head ******** to even read this, but here goes.

First point, one that I see far too many people johning about, stages. Two spring to mind immediately, seeing as I personally cannot argue, be it from lack of experience on the stage (green greens), or from personal belief that the stage deserves to be banned (Distant Planet, Luigi's Mansion), that several of the more arguable ones should not be banned. However, I will argue these two without any fail whatsoever.

PTAD. I keep hearing things like "you won randomly because of the cars" "there's no safe spot on transformation X, I have to burn all my jumps" "I can't see the cars before they arive" "bawww I got killed by the cars". This is a ridiculous kind of complaint, but the next complaint is even more ridiculous: "THIS IS TOO STRONG A COUNTERPICK FOR MK". That's not only wrong, it's outright ludicrous. Think about what other stages MK has any number of better counterpicks. You'd have to ban about 3-4 other stages to make this a really good stage for MK. Or Falco? Yes, I'm sure he enjoys being terrible at recovering. DDD... Yes, a hazard that kills super early is usually great for heavies with good kill moves and a good recovery. /sarcasm It's obviously a good DDD CP, but almost certainly not as good as some alarmists would have you believe. If it is... prove it.
Now on to the other complaints.
"You won randomly because of the cars"
Yes, in the same way I randomly won because I whacked a bomb block on green greens that was sitting there for 3 minutes with an ftilt. i.e. so non-random that you have to be a ******. I suppose that anecdotal evidence is a poor idea, but still. In my last 15 (was 10 a while ago, now it's 15) matches on PTAD, I have never gotten hit by a car. Sure, I'm metaknight. But I am a lousy wifi scrub. I also happen to work in an environment with up to 10 frames of lag-a big difference when talking about hazards like this.
"there's no safe spot on transformation X, I have to burn all my jumps"
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217615
EVERY transformation has a safe zone. The most problematic one, the one where the cars come from the right, has a small safe zone, but even there, you can easily jockey for position. If your opponent outplays you, he gets rewarded slightly harder, but it's hardly a huge issue.
"I can't see the cars before they arive"
Er... You can. On every transformation. There is NO transformation that gives you no warning. Please tell me which one you mean... The one where they come from the right is not correct; the first few cars have no hitboxes, giving you fair warning. The one at the finish line is close to accurate, if you are blind-they are visible in the background (oh, and there's a safe zone).
"bawww I got killed by the cars"
Stop playing like a ****ing noob and learn the stage you dumb ****. You either acted like a ******** and ran into the cars, or your opponent forced you into them.
Oh wait, here's one more:
"Bawwwww the cars are super dangerous and the stage shouldn't be as big of a threat as my opponent"
If you were paying attention, you'd realize that the stage is only truly a threat if you are a very bad player. It's almost impossible for your opponent to force you into such a terrible position that the worst that will happen is worse than "you're on opposite sides of the stage waiting for cars to pass". At least, without putting himself in serious danger from the cars.
There is NO excuse not to have PTAD as a legal counterpick. It is a perfectly legitimate stage. If you wanna prove me wrong, feel free to try. But I'm going with my experience, and wondering why other people can't do the same thing I've been doing-avoiding every obstacle without further thought, and generally using the stage well.

And then there's PS2. WTF is even the complaint against this stage? "It's too good for a character"? Which character? Metaknight has better stages, snake I'm dubious about... It's hard to argue that a stage is too good for any particular character when there's absolutely no kind of results showing this, no character actually seems to favor the stage as a counterpick where it is legal, and there are no truly overcentralizing strategies. And before you come in here with something like MK on the air transformation, or Snake on the electric one, or DDD on the earth one, remember this: they're random transformations. They're a miniscule part of the stage.
If you can't stall MK for like 30 seconds on air, or at least not get completely *****, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? You probably would've lost on almost any MK counterpick stage (Delfino, RC, Brinstar, etc.).
If you can't stall snake until his positional advantage from electric is gone, have you perhaps never heard of ledgecamping?
If you can't run away from DDD on rock... Do I have to say it?
Actually, I support PS2 as a neutral. It's about as legit as PS1.
Here's another common complaint: "It messes with my physics". You know, I don't really see why this is an issue. Yes, it ****s with your physics. Learn to play, and it stops being an issue. Seriously! What's next, gonna complain about Spear Pillar's control flip (inb4spearpillarshouldbealegalstage; it has circle camping which is perhaps, stereotypically, the most clear broken tactic in the game and I know, but without the circle, you could probably put it as a counterpick), which literally stops being a hazard when you learn how to deal with it?

I see people saying "legalize (insert obviously broken stage here)" and I laugh. If you're willing to compare Corneria (fin camping provides a permanent and rather ludicrous positional advantage for the defending character that the attacking character can't really ever expect to beat), or Temple (circle camping), or Warioware (completely randomizing match outcomes to the extent where skill plays virtually no role) to PTAD (non-random, easy-to-dodge hazards, no broken tactic) or Norfair (easy-to-dodge random hazards that give you several seconds warning, no broken tactic), then you obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about and should either educate yourself or get out and stop arguing about things you don't know anything about.

 

[Latias]

Who are you Latias? *looks at join date and sig*

K.

what about it?
you seem to be turning into the mikehaze troll referencer.
edit: also ran and action panda + other people who aren't outright trolls like you (lololladygagaisgood) are in the mk group.

 

[clowsui]

Where you get walked off by DDD

you're stupid, go try and grab someone on the slope as DDD right now

HINT: It won't work unless your hurtbox intersects the middle of his hurtbox.

 

[Spelt]

all you have to do is run or walk towards them + grab.
not exactly situational lolol.

 

[clowsui]

it's really not that easy >__>;

 

[Blacknight99923]

to be fair "easy" shouldnt really matter if its within reasonable human limitations.
I mean I'm sure you can agree falcos Bdacuss wasn't "easy" for you to do consistently at first (or at least his dacus) but once you've muscle memorized it its probably a piece of cake.

of course if its something that has like a 2 frame window than no it isn't easy unless it can be buffered

do you know where said data is on that clow?

 

[MetalMusicMan]

A lot of people still don't know how bad his standing grab box is on slopes :/ its almost impossible to grab someone unless you use his running grab, which you can usually see coming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLxge6-g_Tg&sns=em

He can grab some characters easier than others but overall its almost impossible for him to actually get a standing grab while on a slope.

 

[Blacknight99923]

watching vid now MMM

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

to be fair "easy" shouldnt really matter if its within reasonable human limitations.
I mean I'm sure you can agree falcos Bdacuss wasn't "easy" for you to do consistently at first (or at least his dacus) but once you've muscle memorized it its probably a piece of cake.

of course if its something that has like a 2 frame window than no it isn't easy unless it can be buffered

do you know where said data is on that clow?

I think what he meant by "not easy " is that it's easy to see a running grab coming.

 

[Blacknight99923]

yes

and is there any data that supports D3s Dthrow decaying? I have never heard that before and I'd appreciate a link (since I find it skeptical that marth can only up B when its decayed on a slope)

Also the falco dthrow does not look properly tested, both Dtilt and Ftilt are faster than SL on the ground (I know for sure on these) and both nair and uair are faster in the air. If this was tested while trying to SL(frame 5-8 invincibility) out of Dthrow I don't see how this is valid

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614

MK frame data thread

 

[-Vocal-]

yes

and is there any data that supports D3s Dthrow decaying? I have never heard that before and I'd appreciate a link (since I find it skeptical that marth can only up B when its decayed on a slope)

Also the falco dthrow does not look properly tested, both Dtilt and Ftilt are faster than SL on the ground (I know for sure on these) and both nair and uair are faster in the air. If this was tested while trying to SL(frame 5-8 invincibility) out of Dthrow I don't see how this is valid

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614

MK frame data thread

I don't know where the data is, but his Dthrow has several hitboxes which decay; this is extremely important when trying to infinite Luigi, as, unless you pummel inbetween each Dthrow, the throw stales too much to continue the infinite.

 

[Blacknight99923]

^ I had specifically read somewhere D3 cannot CG marth on a slope

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I've been told that I just mistimed the cg on marth, which is very possible since its strict. I haven't had time to retest it yet though so I'm not sure. I should probably annotate that into the video but I'm out of town atm.

Staleness/decay is why he can't technically standing infinite mario/luigi/samus until over 100 though. It decays if you don't pummel, because it gets too stale. Once it gets over 5x stale they fly too far to be regrabbed.