Official BBR Tier List v5

[-LzR-]

Yeah like his shield can't be poked but after like 2 hits the shield stops working so it's kinda like it pokes.

 

[Z'zgashi]

You know for a fact that isn't true. Samus's uair, Marth's usmash and many other moves can hit through Yoshi's shield below him.

Well, yeah, but why in the hell would we shield in that position? Ever?

@LzR: If we take a hit on shield, we keep the attacks momentum if we roll away.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Actually, I outplaced San at MLG DC. I don't believe he went to MLG Dallas, though.

I was mainly talking about the ones where he did go to (minus Dallas, as like you said, he wasn't there). Didn't know about the DC difference. So I was right...3/4 of the tournaments?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

just because wolf can do ok against his bad match ups doesnt mean there's wolf mains out there that're good enough to actually accomplish it. Not saying all the good wolf mains are bad of course but if they have other characters to fall back on, like gull and choice do, why not make it easier on yourself?
its the same with TKD going MK agaisnt fox's bad MU's

wolf, fox and many other characters can do better than expected in tough MU's when in the hands of the right players, but if the said player isnt confident enough to try its smarter to fall back on a better character for the time being

Kain goes Solo Wolf and wins regionals.

 

[Deleted member]

just because wolf can do ok against his bad match ups doesnt mean there's wolf mains out there that're good enough to actually accomplish it. Not saying all the good wolf mains are bad of course but if they have other characters to fall back on, like gull and choice do, why not make it easier on yourself?
its the same with TKD going MK agaisnt fox's bad MU's

wolf, fox and many other characters can do better than expected in tough MU's when in the hands of the right players, but if the said player isnt confident enough to try its smarter to fall back on a better character for the time being

Not to mention that our best Wolf(Kain) goes solo Wolf, deals with bad MUs, and wins Regionals. Wolf does indeed have the tools, and Kain is the living proof of it. In comparison to Fox, TKD is the best, but he goes MK against bad MUs or on a stage he doesn't like.

Why is he below him again?

Seagull Man has had MK for a secondary for as long as I can remember. I don't think he does it just for bad MUs, but also because he enjoys playing MK.

Edit: Sniped by Ryu. He knows what's up. :3

 

[-LzR-]

Well, yeah, but why in the hell would we shield in that position? Ever?

@LzR: If we take a hit on shield, we keep the attacks momentum if we roll away.

Isn't rolling a bad idea for Yoshi even in that situation?

 

[Deleted member]

Ugh...Yoshi's roll is so disappointing. :<

He's still really fun to play, though. Hadesblade has shown me the light.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yoshi should have Lucario's roll to make up for the fact his shield is eh.

 

[Z'zgashi]

^^^ Yes.

And rolling is good only when your shield takes a hit as you roll farther away. If you shield a falcon punch and roll, you roll half of FD away.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Not to mention that our best Wolf(Kain) goes solo Wolf, deals with bad MUs, and wins Regionals. Wolf does indeed have the tools, and Kain is the living proof of it. In comparison to Fox, TKD is the best, but he goes MK against bad MUs or on a stage he doesn't like.

Why is he below him again?

because tkd beats better people with fox than kain does with wolf.

also because nakat is around. and nakat proves that theres more than 1 person that can consistently beat skilled players with fox.

 

[Deleted member]

We also have Choice.

Not sure who he beat with Wolf at MLG, though :/

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

because tkd beats better people with fox than kain does with wolf.

also because nakat is around. and nakat proves that theres more than 1 person that can consistently beat skilled players with fox.

He beats better people by going MK when game 2 comes around or Ice Climbers show up.

 

[Deleted member]

He beats better people by going MK when game 2 comes around or Ice Climbers show up.

This.

Also, .AC.(Wolf) beat TKD in a set at a tourney in Mexico.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Seagull places pretty good as well.

And legit post count is legit.

4444

 

[Red Arremer]

He beats better people by going MK when game 2 comes around or Ice Climbers show up.

Nobody ever claimed Fox had no bad matchups that have to be covered, lulz.

Also TKD doesn't always go MK at game 2. Only sometimes.

 

[Conviction]

He beats better people by going MK when game 2 comes around or Ice Climbers show up.

You sir are wrong.

This.

Also, .AC.(Wolf) beat TKD in a set at a tourney in Mexico.

You too.

Tyrant Vs TKD (turns out it was tyrant my bad)
game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH9DS3Hp9TA
game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g5GIFLQNQw

Havok vs TKD WF
game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXqAqehf7yk
game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0p2w...eature=related
game 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYspJfwsSGU

Havok VS TKD GF
game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBpnALXn1Bc
game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnXSwO9QJZg
game 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCSYzQXpzzM
game 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inr7XscKql4

I didn't know MK had lasers and a tail.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nobody ever claimed Fox had no bad matchups that have to be covered, lulz.

Also TKD doesn't always go MK at game 2. Only sometimes.

The point I'm trying to stress is that if Fox is better via results, shouldn't his results reflect being Fox, not Fox + Secondaries.

I mean, if he is a better character than others above or below, why are people saying he is better than others when he needs secondaries to do well in certain match-ups? I mean shouldn't that factor into an issue with the character in tournaments and the list should place him lower because of this issue?

You sir are wrong.



You too.



I didn't know MK had lasers and a tail.

Oh look it's MK a match-up that isn't that bad for him, not Pikachu, Ice Climbers, or Sheik.

 

[Conviction]

You said game 2 he goes MK. I don't see MK.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't see Brinstar or any of the "gay" stages he was claimed to change to MK either.

 

[Conviction]

Well did you mention that your previous post?

 

[Deleted member]

He changed to MK against AC on Yoshi's Island.

And no Iblisk, you are wrong. He DID beat TKD in a set.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well did you mention that your previous post?

Nope.

But pretty sure G2 = CP stages, which is what I was implying.

....though not directly clear on that, my bad.

 

[Conviction]

He changed to MK against AC on Yoshi's Island.

And no Iblisk, you are wrong. He DID beat TKD in a set.

No was talking you saying this, not changing to MK. I've seen that match.

 

[Red Arremer]

I mean, if he is a better character than others above or below, why are people saying he is better than others when he needs secondaries to do well in certain match-ups? I mean shouldn't that factor into an issue with the character in tournaments and the list should place him lower because of this issue?

Consider that technically, most characters in the area Fox is placed in need at least one secondary already.
Hell, that already starts with B Tier (well, maybe not so much for Olimar and Pikachu).

Just because TKD decides to use a secondary on characters Fox does not well against doesn't mean he only is successful because of MK and implying that is pretty insulting towards TKD's skill (with Fox), in my opinion. Nor does it mean Fox is a bad character.

Oh look it's MK a match-up that isn't that bad for him, not Pikachu, Ice Climbers, or Sheik.

You said yourself he always goes MK in game 2. Always. Without exception. You did NOT say "against characters Fox has problems with".

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Consider that technically, most characters in the area Fox is placed in need at least one secondary already.
Hell, that already starts with B Tier (well, maybe not so much for Olimar and Pikachu).

Just because TKD decides to use a secondary on characters Fox does not well against doesn't mean he only is successful because of MK and implying that is pretty insulting towards TKD's skill (with Fox), in my opinion. Nor does it mean Fox is a bad character.

I'm not trying to bash on TKD or insult him, I am on the Fox hype that comes with him and the +4 that came out of nowhere unwarrantably just like Pit was before.

There are characters that do need a secondary should be placed accordingly as well, DK needs one for example.

The ones that don't and have shown that they don't should be placed higher, that is the point I'm trying to state, not that TKD sucks or Fox sucks.

You said yourself he always goes MK in game 2. Always. Without exception. You did NOT say "against characters Fox has problems with".

Read my previous post.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

This discussion is so ********. I wonder what TKD / Kain think of this nonsense. They'll probably facepalm about all these people talking about them as if they knew what's going on in their heads. Why don't you let do them the talking?

 

[Red Arremer]

The ones that don't and have shown that they don't should be placed higher, that is the point I'm trying to state, not that TKD sucks or Fox sucks.

If you want to be really technical, every character but MK has a bad matchup and would be recommended to be using a secondary.

The only thing TKD is doing is to actually not use Fox in a matchup that might end up more difficult for him. I'm pretty sure TKD could win with Fox against a Pikachu or Sheik if he wanted to, but he doesn't make it artificially more difficult for himself just to prove that Fox is a good character and can win against ICs etc.

Read my previous post.

Which you made while I was writing up mine. I'm not refreshing the threads I'm posting in every couple seconds to see if someone already posted something new.

This discussion is so ********. I wonder what TKD / Kain think of this nonsense. They'll probably facepalm about all these people talking about them as if they knew what's going on in their heads. Why don't you let do them the talking?

"I wonder what TKD and Kain are thinking of you speculating about what they think. They probably think you're stupid!"

You're applying hypocrisy here, as you are doing exactly the same you are accusing us of. Good job.

 

[BSP]

Not to mention that our best Wolf(Kain) goes solo Wolf, deals with bad MUs, and wins Regionals. Wolf does indeed have the tools, and Kain is the living proof of it. In comparison to Fox, TKD is the best, but he goes MK against bad MUs or on a stage he doesn't like.

Why is he below him again?

Could say the same about Sonic.

Except the switching part.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If you want to be really technical, every character but MK has a bad matchup and would be recommended to be using a secondary.

The only thing TKD is doing is to actually not use Fox in a matchup that might end up more difficult for him. I'm pretty sure TKD could win with Fox against a Pikachu or Sheik if he wanted to, but he doesn't make it artificially more difficult for himself just to prove that Fox is a good character and can win against ICs etc.

See to me, if you can play the match-up out and win it, you don't need a secondary even if it's a bad match-up. If it's so bad that you must use a secondary, then that's a different story which I think applies to Fox.

Which you made while I was writing up mine. I'm not refreshing the threads I'm posting in every couple seconds to see if someone already posted something new.

Yeah, I was just point it out since I was kinda lazy to repost it or something. /lazy.

"I wonder what TKD and Kain are thinking of you talking about what is going on in their heads. They're probably facepalming!"

You're applying hypocrisy here, as you are doing exactly the same you are accusing us of. Good job.

Don't worry he kinda ignores that "what the top players think" stuff when he says things like Mario beats Lucario.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I just went through the mental thought process behind playing a different character in a matchup you CAN win with your main.

Theres a lot of different, complecated factors that go into it. but what I will say, is that the assuption that if you switch characters, its because your main isnt competant, is wrong

 

[Juushichi]

Mario doesn't beat Lucario, but Luc doesn't beat him by much. Just throwing that out there, Ryu.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Mario does beat Lucario.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Mario doesn't beat Lucario, but Luc doesn't beat him by much. Just throwing that out there, Ryu.

This.

Mario does the best against him compared to the other Low tiers, maybe Lucas too.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Mario does beat Lucario.

Again, ignoring what the mains of both say even at a top level.

 

[Juushichi]

Gheb's got a pretty nice Mario and the thought varies between mains, honestly. Some of us thinks that Mario does beat Lucario, I think we've got a slight disadvantage overall but should beat a Lucario on our CP and can beat him on his own.

 

[Steam]

Lucario 55-45 Mario

yay

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

How does mario go neutral with lucario o.0

 

[Laem]

LMAO so random this lucario vs mario

btw, apparently you're a hypocrite if you call out hypocrisy
yayuhz

what was the topic again?
oh yes
if you're not a top player you can't accurately judge therefore most people are wrong whatever they say regarding matchups.
HUZZAH!

 

[Coney]

these are the most inane discussions

 

[deepseadiva]

these are the most inane discussions

hahahahahahaha

 

[tekkie]

dammit i came here to talk about how bad my main is

because tkd beats better people with fox than kain does with wolf.

the only wolf tournament results that aren't sad and depressing are kain's, and the only good player who comes to mind who has been beaten by wolf in tournament is that one time kain wrecked hylian

whereas every other mid tier has much better representation against pro players, i.e. mjg destroying dallas with toon link, X/espy with sonic, a handful of high placing peach players at genesis, etc

seriously the wolf boards venerates players who only get 2-stocked by m2k