Official BBR Tier List v5

[Chuee]

Okay, seriously, this might be spam, but where the **** are all those cool sigs above me from?

Yink
10Yinks

 

[Mr.-0]

Uh, it isn't that simple. It is buffered powershielding.

Apparently you can't buffer from a powershield, I think bigman said it in one of his above posts.

Who's Yink?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Those signatures make my eyes bleed though, its'like the default photoshop bevel and glow and a tutorials.com reflection.

 

[GimR]

I guess it'd be better if it was called Power shield buffering or something along the lines of you power shielding and attacking the first frame possible


Mr.-0, you need to chill out, even though the technique isn't 100% new, the application is

 

[Mr.-0]

Using it to interrupt a tornado? Yeah, I guess that's new. In fact, does it really even matter if it's new if it works? Shouldn't characters still be able to use it like they did in the video?

 

[Browny]

And I'm aware that results and theorycraft can contradict each other, but that doesn't change the fact that they have a correlation most of the time.

I do not believe this to be technically correct. Results can contradict theorycraft, but by no means can theory EVER contradict results, the results are the only ones capable or proving something else wrong. The 'most' of the time you are referring to is when theory match results, every other instance is when the theory was wrong. At the end of the day, the results were always quantifiable and defined clearly. Now I'm not suggesting results be worth 100% of a characters position on a tier list, but imo the results should determine a characters position on the tier list and the theory acts as a margin of error, pushing characters up or down a few spots in the instance of heavily biased results (such as only 1 player capable of doing well while no others even come close).

Results are more important than theorycraft, only because theorycraft (for the most part) is encompassed in results. But that's no excuse to neglect theorycraft, or results.

This is better.

 

[KillerJawz]

Apparently you can't buffer from a powershield, I think bigman said it in one of his above posts.

Who's Yink?

Yink is a moderator and member of this site.

 

[Pikabunz]

What's your explanation for it, then? I don't have a clue as to what else it could be.

Dunno how to explain it well, but when Lucas tethers to the stage, his body will sorta instantly teleport near the ledge before he retracts it. In the vid, Lucas was hit during the same frame he would've teleported near the ledge. So during that single frame, his body was there but the hit canceled his teleport.

 

[Poltergust]

Those signatures make my eyes bleed though, its'like the default photoshop bevel and glow and a tutorials.com reflection.

That's not a nice thing to say. They were gifts.

Dunno how to explain it well, but when Lucas tethers to the stage, his body will sorta instantly teleport near the ledge before he retracts it. In the vid, Lucas was hit during the same frame he would've teleported near the ledge. So during that single frame, his body was there but the hit canceled his teleport.

But then... wouldn't his body be next to the ledge, then? I don't understand how the hurtboxes could teleport before Lucas' character model does.

Well, we can always just test it and see what happens when you tether the ledge and retract/not retract.

 

[Tesh]

Isn't there an easy way to confirm one of you is wrong about this?

 

[Chuee]

Those signatures make my eyes bleed though, its'like the default photoshop bevel and glow and a tutorials.com reflection.

Don't be mad cuz Yink made Yoshi's sigs and not you :3

 

[Pikabunz]

@Polt - It's just how the game works, but that's what's happening.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I was just trolling, they're cute as an idea but execution needs work.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Don't be mad cuz Yink made Yoshi's sigs and not you :3

Then how did you get one? You're a Lucas main, not a Yoshi main. Though I do understand the desire to switch it up to a better character...

 

[tarextherex]

What if the Marios disagreed? Your word vs. theirs. And I'm assuming you know everything Mario can do too, right?

IMO the only MUs that should affect the list are the ratios that the top players of each character come up with. BBR should do that if they haven't already. Actually, any on paper discussion/influence should be top players only. Or you'd have to prove that you know what you're talking about before you have input.

@0 effect is a noun, and affect is a verb. You used it correctly.

Actually I took this from the matchup tier list in the MU chart thread. Now that I look back into it, it's pretty outdated(lol @ Yoshi getting ***** 65-35 by Samus) but Yoshi still got better MUs than Mario. And top players do sometimes contribute in MU discussions, so yeah(it might be more accurate if it was made by BBR only, but so far we only got that as MU data). Other proof is that Mario gets ***** by MK, Marth and D3 while Yoshi dosen't really get ***** by anyone. As far as I know, most Mario players don't even think he got a chance of getting mid, so I don't think Marios would disagree :/

 

[Mr.-0]

I'm pretty sure Yink gave them as a gift, niddo.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Take it from me (...whistling...) that you don't want to know what a BBR match-up chart might look like. Cough. Wheeze. Whistle.

 

[infiniteV115]

@ Browny
You're right, thank you for pointing that out.

@ K Prime
Well, whether the hurtbox is extended or Lucas' hurtbox "teleports" to the edge, it doesn't really matter. Both cases apply to NickRiddle's initial point which brought up the whole discussion, that you can easily edgeguard Lucas when he goes for the tether, including spiking, by attacking the image of the snake.
Though the fact that Lucas wasn't right at the edge after the d-smash would lead me to believe that the hitbox is extended, but whatever. That's the only difference made.

For the hurtbox to "teleport", would that mean that you can't hit Lucas' image as soon as he tethers?

 

[Mr.-0]

@SFP

I don't get it. Do you mean they're making one, that it would be awesome, or that it would suck? I understand the joke, but... be a little more specific.

 

[Spelt]

Then how did you get one? You're a Lucas main, not a Yoshi main. Though I do understand the desire to switch it up to a better character...

You should switch to yoshi and do it too.

 

[Pikabunz]

@ Browny
You're right, thank you for pointing that out.

@ K Prime
Well, whether the hurtbox is extended or Lucas' hurtbox "teleports" to the edge, it doesn't really matter. Both cases apply to NickRiddle's initial point which brought up the whole discussion, that you can easily edgeguard Lucas when he goes for the tether, including spiking, by attacking the image of the snake.
Though the fact that Lucas wasn't right at the edge after the d-smash would lead me to believe that the hitbox is extended, but whatever. That's the only difference made.

For the hurtbox to "teleport", would that mean that you can't hit Lucas' image as soon as he tethers?

Trust me, I'm right.

 

[infiniteV115]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I wasn't trying to disprove you. And I'll assume "yes" is the answer to my question.

 

[Mr.-0]

I really think that Lucas' snake is an extended hurtbox. It definitely looked like that, or ZSS' DSMASH has some disjointed range we don't know about. I don't think it has to do with teleporting and the character image not following immediatly.

 

[Chuee]

Then how did you get one? You're a Lucas main, not a Yoshi main. Though I do understand the desire to switch it up to a better character...

Cuz I visit the Yoshi boards =)
and nah, Yoshi is a lot harder to learn than Lucas.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi for hardest character to learn in Smash.

In fact, I doubt there's any one person who can execute every one of his AT's consistently.

 

[Conviction]

Scatz is the closest.

 

[Z'zgashi]

^^^ I'd agree.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

You should switch to yoshi and do it too.

Nah, I said upgrade, not downgrade.

 

[Mr.-0]

Implying that Ike is better than Yoshi. But I ahevn't ever seen any good Yoshis, and San is boss, so I guess thats right.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Implying that Ike is better than Yoshi. But I ahevn't ever seen any good Yoshis, and San is boss, so I guess thats right.

*points to tier list*

*points to Ike placing higher than Yoshi at MLG*

*admittedly points to roughly similar results outside of that, with about 3 really noticeable players for each character*

Switch Yoshi and PT plz.

 

[Mr.-0]

I didn't say you were wrong lol.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi > Low Tier is all I'd like to see.

 

[NickRiddle]

Yoshi's gonna be one away from top of low-tier, just to piss you off.

 

[Z'zgashi]

TBH, I wouldn't care, I've been looking forward to using my Mario for a while now.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm pretty sure that's where most Yoshi's agree he belong at the moment, Nick.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Well, in my opinion, he should also be over ness, but if he isn't... meh, it's only one spot.

 

[Mr.-0]

I don't think, unless some Yoshi master steps up and masters him, that Yoshi should be above Ness. Ness is far better on paper imo (and has better tournament results...) than Yoshi and I can't see Yoshi rising above Ness.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi's results are ballin' lately:

http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=9548
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293894
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293937

Just a couple.

EDIT: Just wondering, what has Ness done lately?

 

[KillerJawz]

Wow those results are actually really nice ;o.

Anything from Delta?

 

[CHOMPY]

Is it the higher the damage ratio, the higher the knock back is?