Official BBR Tier List v5

[bigman40]

What's a Peach?

 

[Luigi player]

What's a Peach?

 

[Coney]

ddd/zss is definitely -2 for ddd after playing it this weekend, feels as bad as falco but in a different way, if that makes any sense

the matches will go up--the matches shifted in momentum an INCREDIBLE amount, it was nuts. i'd get a 30-40% string off, then he would, then i would, then he would

game 3 i just came back and he was a bit behind, and he started this huge comeback on me...and then he dair'd.

got em

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi has been out placings Peach.

Yoshi>Peach? lol.

Good job Polt.

Yes :D

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yoshi ain't low tier if he can get that far in a bracket. I normally don't use results but Polt doing what he did is defiantly a plus.

Polt even did well at MLG Dallas, so who knows I'll look at the character a bit more.

 

[Espy Rose]

I still don't know why some people think Yoshi is low tier.
Mid to bottom of mid tier, but low tier?

C'mon now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Sounds like Ike all over again, where is the Inui-like person who is gonna say Yoshi is bottom 5 and ignore everything else presented to them?

 

[bigman40]

We've stated that from the beginning (save the extremists). Apparently, we didn't have the results to support mid-tier.

 

[Sinister Slush]

We've stated that from the beginning (save the extremists). Apparently, we didn't have the results to support mid-tier.

Yes scatz, We've all "Made sure" Yoshi was Mid-tier in this thread...

 

[C.J.]

Sounds like Ike all over again, where is the Inui-like person who is gonna say Yoshi is bottom 5 and ignore everything else presented to them?

I'll do it!
Yoshi is awful he has a terrible shield so he has to spotdodge a lot so he's super easy to punish. Worse than Samus imo

 

[Albert.]

Yoshi is ****ign scary.

One of THE MOST under-rated characters in the game. And I consider vastly more annoying than most of mid-tier to deal with. In a game when whoever "is more annoying" is usually winning, that's saying something.

Who else has been planked with eggs for 3 minutes and didn't shield all of them!? b*****s

 

[DMG]

It depends on what you define low tier as. Our definition of low tier over time has become a lot more narrow than before. Even if Yoshi doesn't move up the tier list, we'd probably put him over the low tier cutoff anyways.


If you wanted to, you could keep going on and taking people out of low tier. Take everyone from Bowser on up out of low tier.

Not saying that Yoshi should stay in low tier. Just an alternative perspective from what many of you might have.

 

[bigman40]

Yes scatz, We've all "Made sure" Yoshi was Mid-tier in this thread...

If by stating stuff that doesn't relate to the topic, sure I guess.

I think people haven't clearly defined what determines a mid or low tier character. Or at least, it's been fairly ambiguous to me.

 

[Albert.]

Waiting for people to call me bad because of my opinion.

 

[DMG]

If by stating stuff that doesn't relate to the topic, sure I guess.

I think people haven't clearly defined what determines a mid or low tier character. Or at least, it's been fairly ambiguous to me.

Waiting for people to call me bad because of my opinion.

Yeah.

Albert: IDK. Personally, for me I think Yoshi is garbage and nothing can change my opinion of that. Like, yes people do well with him (poltergust in particular) and I don't wanna downplay his skill as a player, but frankly I think people lose a lot to Yoshi over novelty/surprise value.

Yoshi, more than some other characters, feels like you can sit down, do 5 serious matches, and figure out stuff to do that he has no reasonable response to. Diddy for example. I don't play that matchup day in and day out, but I realized that Yoshi is kinda butt at approaching. So I can do general defensive things like throwing a banana at his shield and waiting, because I know he's not gonna PS Dash grab me or be able to drop shield catch the banana and threaten me with anything real strong.

I feel like with a little bit more general knowledge about what to do against Yoshi, that his potential viability drops like a rock. Even more so than compared to similar "lower" characters that do well like Ness/Ike/etc.

 

[bigman40]

Well, of course he's butt to certain characters. It's the reason he's not a good character. As I recall, most characters in low mid tier have moderate problems with slight redeeming qualities.

 

[Spelt]

Yoshi is top of low tier. This won't change for me unless someone suddenly redefines his playstyle. I could maybe see him going up into mid tier but not actually passing anybody.

He still did better than Peach, didn't he?
Answer that though. I honestly don't know.

Oh.
Snap.

 

[DMG]

Well, of course he's butt to certain characters. It's the reason he's not a good character. As I recall, most characters in low mid tier have moderate problems with slight redeeming qualities.

But that's what I'm saying. His problems seem a LOT more general than character specific when compared to characters somewhat around him. Ness/Ike for example. Sure they have general flaws, but they tend to be overshadowed cause someone can CG them or abuse a character trait over them, instead of "Oh well Yoshi sucks at approaching and his shield is bad, which makes things easier for the other guy regardless of what character they got".

It's because of that, that I find him less viable than other characters in a similar spot tier wise.

 

[Juushichi]

I actually agree with DMG. Yoshi is an interesting character and his mains do work, but on a fundamental level I dont understand why so many people lose to this character.

I'm not calling Yoshi bad by any means, but when I watch videos of people that don't do basic things that work and get swept up into momentum... it's surprising. Maybe it's because my area have two good Yoshi players.

I can't speak for Lain or Nicole, though.

 

[Fuujin]

I actually agree with DMG. Yoshi is an interesting character and his mains do work, but on a fundamental level I don't understand why so many people lose to this character.

I feel this way about Ike.
inb4 me losing to Mr doom, I SDd
Plus I use Zelda
Infinite johns on my end.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree with that, which is why its hard to say how good yoshis matchups are, especially because yoshi players beat lots of good *insert character here*, and yet certain players who understand the character beat yoshi perty bad.

I disagree with some of that though DMG. Like ness you are only looking at the weaknesses, and not how yoshi gets around them.

Why would yoshi be shielding against diddy while you are on the ground with a banana. Yoshis dont just hide in shield like some characters can usually, because yoshi obviously cant get out easily. Against diddy for instance, yoshi is mobile enough and is top 5 in picking up bananas to where he can easily just camp diddy really hard, and diddy isnt mobile enough to really chase yoshi anywhere.

Like metaknight beats yoshi (though its arguable how bad), and can really abuse yoshis shield sometimes, and yet somehow players who know these weaknesses still lose to yoshi.

Yoshi simply has a lot of pretty good options, with some general flaws that can mitigated. Ness is more of a character with some **** tools, some glaring flaws that can sometimes be hard to abuse (see hav ok vs F OW XD). Unlike yoshi, ness can kind of buttrape people, where as yoshi really doesnt have any super scary tools, just counters to lots of good tools of good characters. i dont play against any good ikes so i wont comment on whats good/bad about ike besies the obvious.
DMG, wario ***** yoshi so obviously you beat polt badly XD

 

[bigman40]

But that's what I'm saying. His problems seem a LOT more general than character specific when compared to characters somewhat around him. Ness/Ike for example. Sure they have general flaws, but they tend to be overshadowed cause someone can CG them or abuse a character trait over them, instead of "Oh well Yoshi sucks at approaching and his shield is bad, which makes things easier for the other guy regardless of what character they got".

It's because of that, that I find him less viable than other characters in a similar spot tier wise.

The two problems that are general is his ability to shield like everyone else in the game, and to approach with safety. This mainly affects matchups where most characters can apply pressure and force him to stay in his shield (Marth, Diddy, MK, and Wario to some degree) and characters that effectively stop him from approaching without enhanced difficulty (Wolf, Toonlink, and Falco). The other characters that can't take full advantage of either of these flaws generally leave the matchup at a stalemate. Most characters aren't able to actually pin Yoshi down into his shield, and when it actually happens, most hits allow Yoshi to use the pushback to roll away and reset the field. His general flaws do affect his matchups on a whole scale, but only a few make those flaws very apparent.

I actually agree with DMG. Yoshi is an interesting character and his mains do work, but on a fundamental level I dont understand why so many people lose to this character.

I'm not calling Yoshi bad by any means, but when I watch videos of people that don't do basic things that work and get swept up into momentum... it's surprising. Maybe it's because my area have two good Yoshi players.

I can't speak for Lain or Nicole, though.

So many people lose to him due to not knowing an inch of what he can do (other than his CGs). Most people become shocked whenever someone gets egglayed. There's a huge lack of knowledge (more than others I believe) that shows why Yoshi does better more often than normal.

Any Yoshi you watch these days plays some of the most basic playstyles (barely changed from 2008). The amount of techskill most Yoshi's possess is identical to the amount of jigglypuff players. Yoshi is in a sense like Makoto in where they need constant reads to do anything sufficiently (where his momentum takes a slight better leeway than camping).

For Lain, he just sucked it up. I'm not doubting his skill or Polt's, but dropping so many grabs the entire set is rediculous. Not to mention Polt was playing overly aggressive in where he was basically yelling at Lain to kill him for doing it.

 

[DMG]

DMG, wario ***** yoshi so obviously you beat polt badly XD

I didn't **** him with Wario actually. Game 2 where I went Diddy and did what I described... was much harder for him. It might be because he had aggressive tendencies that I don't think you can get away with VS Diddy, but yeah that matchup felt incredibly hard for Yoshi. Like borderline hard counter.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't forget

though he seems to be mostly about a move-set that just makes it hard to hit him.

 

[bigman40]

Oh, forgot about him. Yeah, he definitely falls into the "FUUUUUUUU, I CAN'T APPROACH THIS STUPID CHARACTER!!!!" section.

 

[Chuee]

Yoshi's cool but the funniest thing about him is that his harder MUs are all random mid tier characters (Fox, Wolf, TL, Lucario)

 

[bigman40]

With the exception of Fox, you are quite right.

 

[Chuee]

Fox v Yoshi is tuff stuff.
Ask Delta about it since I see him viewing dis here thread.

 

[bigman40]

And he has problems with the Snake matchup. Yoshis do have personal matchup problems like everyone else. Fox has no shown nearly enough evidence to make it a bad matchup like the others.

 

[Chuee]

Delta?
Last time I heard he said it was 55-45

 

[Bizkit047]

That was -ages- ago, but, yeah. Unless there's another Bizkit who plays Snake, I totally three-stocked him in one of the two games, and the other wasn't much closer.

You're welcome to MM me instead of make up sets. I never got 3 stocked by a PT. I don't even think it was a 2 stock. Only game 2 wasn't "close" IIRC.

 

[bigman40]

Delta?
Last time I heard he said it was 55-45

Yes, but recent tourneys has shown that he's consistently lost to Snakes (MVD and someone else). Anyways, this is quite off-topic. You're welcome to continue this in the Yoshi boards.

 

[Deleted member]

I didn't **** him with Wario actually. Game 2 where I went Diddy and did what I described... was much harder for him. It might be because he had aggressive tendencies that I don't think you can get away with VS Diddy, but yeah that matchup felt incredibly hard for Yoshi. Like borderline hard counter.

Polts said he had trouble with diddy, i used to think it was unwinnable till i started playin like a ******* and now i think its close to evenish (well diddy wins but thats because diddy is a good character )

But no matchup shiz here

I think you might be underrating yoshi a little bit also, it seems kind of hard to compare him to a character like bowser (not that bowser is terrible, but not on the same level as yoshi).

Scatz, MVD is a very good player, doesnt mean that hes having matchup problems.
Edit: Bizkit mad cuz he lost 2-0 to a yoshi LOL

 

[Flayl]

goddamnit the thread is about yoshi AGAIN

 

[Sinister Slush]

Too me atleast, Yoshi and Diddy MU is just who can camp the most and us the nanners more efficiently.
We have alot of fun bits and pieces of stuff we can do with the nanners, my favorite is probably the DACIT cause of how far we can slide.

But if I had to put a ratio down it'd still be +1 Diddy's favor cause of obvious reasons outside of just the item.

Also would you rather it be Sonic, OH I KNOW LETS TALK ABOUT PEACH AGAIN!

 

[bigman40]

I've very aware that he's a great Snake player. I've played him myself lmao. I included his name because he told me he played another Snake main and lost before MVD (IIRC). When he had to play against him, I knew he had a fairly high chance of losing due to how MVD plays (***** don't die <3).

Flayl, do you want to talk about Bowser then? At least it's much more controlled than when every Yoshi main was posting in the previous times.

 

[Flayl]

I've very aware that he's a great Snake player. I've played him myself lmao. I included his name because he told me he played another Snake main and lost before MVD (IIRC). When he had to play against him, I knew he had a fairly high chance of losing due to how MVD plays (***** don't die <3).

Flayl, do you want to talk about Bowser then? At least it's much more controlled than when every Yoshi main was posting in the previous times.

Nah, I'm more interested in Snake vs Falco, and why Marth and Wario barely get any rep.

 

[Luigi player]

Snake seems better than Falco to me, just because he doesn't have any MUs that counter him.
Isn't Snakes worst MU MK? It's probably 55:45 MK ("slight MK advantage", if you like that better).
I'm not sure, but ICs/Pikachu are probably more difficult for Falco than MK is for Snake... Falco is really good, but he does have some MUs that hold him below Snake.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Nah, I'm more interested in Snake vs Falco, and why Marth and Wario barely get any rep.

Marth and Wario have to put in a lot more work, for results not as good as MK, Snake, Diddy, or Falco. Maybe that's why?

Snake > Falco, at least judging by the results threat with the money component to it. Only character not named MK to have double digits. So much for "Snake doesn't get results anymore, he should be 5th"

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Marth gets rep in Europe amirite