doodmahn
Smash Journeyman
One time, on teams in With Anyone, I hit one guy with the soccer ball, it bounced off of them and then hit a spring, and then hit an opponent right above the spring. That was the most awesome double KO I've ever gotten.
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QFT. Don't put a band-aid on slash wound.The only way the item would not be broken is if camping itself were broken. And camping is broken, the badge doesn't HELP enough, as you can just go back to camping in half a minute.
If my opponent gets a beam sword, all my attacks are still functional. If my opponent gets a Franklin Badge, any projectile attacks do not work. Furthermore, unlike a beam sword (which prevents use of aerials), the badge does not inconvenience my opponent in any way.All the problems with Beam swords and Franklin badges aren't that big of a deal.
If your character isn't as good with beam swords, use your item switch to ban it. If your using a projectile character, ban it. That simple.
I agree whole-heartedly with this view.If my opponent gets a beam sword, all my attacks are still functional. If my opponent gets a Franklin Badge, any projectile attacks do not work. Furthermore, unlike a beam sword (which prevents use of aerials), the badge does not inconvenience my opponent in any way.
Item switches should be for items that give you a DISADVANTAGE, not ones that instantly gimp you with no possible counter. Franklin Badge falls in the latter category, so it should be banned by default.
This. There is no character in the game whose playstyle is comprised entirely of projectiles and camping: the spacies are rather good at close combat and will only use lasers to draw you in - they are by no means restricted by their guns; all of Snake's projectiles can detonate next to a player (none of them have to hit to deal damage), and besides that, he's got the fastest attacks of any heavy character; Pit shouldn't be camping anyway with his speed and combos.You know, even if your opponent has the Franklin badge and you're projectiles are mute for a whopping (<-- sarcasm) 30 sec... You can still, oh I don't know... Fight up close, use projectiles that are not canceled out by the badge
Yeah but if your playing with items on in the first place, items like the Beam Sword and Bat, will be thrown and anyone who knows what it's like to have a bat reflected back at you will hate the Franklin BadgeFranklin Badge is not a problem. No character only uses projectiles, you'll be fine.
Knowing the badge is on them, WHY would you throw anything at them to begin with? That'd be stupid to do. If you forgot they had it on them, throw, then when you see it reflected, shield or dodge.Yeah but if your playing with items on in the first place, items like the Beam Sword and Bat, will be thrown and anyone who knows what it's like to have a bat reflected back at you will hate the Franklin Badge
Is this sarcasm? Because this is exactly what I was talking about.... Except possibly substituting Snake for Pit to eliminate the possible noob factor.Right. All the campers just use their projectiles as a way to draw the opponent in closer.
The beamsword is also just a cheap Item, It has no negative aspects and it has massive range and priority. Its a deadlier weapon than a hammer, because with a hammer you have high risk. A thrown bat is also much to powerful to be unbanned.
Is this sarcasm? Because this is exactly what I was talking about.... Except possibly substituting Snake for Pit to eliminate the possible noob factor.
Restricted moveset, including the inability to grab is not a negative aspect? Smashing with the beamsword is so slow, and all other attacks have little damage and knockback.The beamsword is also just a cheap Item, It has no negative aspects and it has massive range and priority.
Consider this: One of the factors for ISP is that there must be a level of risk/reward. There is absolutely no risk to putting on the Franklin Badge and the reward is 30 seconds of near camping immunity. You are free to approach or retreat, while your opponent's moveset has been limited. There is no counter to this item because it only limits your moveset. You always have your moveset, thus it's not a counter.You know, even if your opponent has the Franklin badge and you're projectiles are mute for a whopping (<-- sarcasm) 30 sec... You can still, oh I don't know... Fight up close, use projectiles that are not canceled out by the badge (many exist, go look for them, I'm not about to sit here and type them all out for you), use other items to attack with that are not projectiles (and MANY exist), get the badge before your opponent gets it by having terrain control, and, oh yeah, did I mention fighting up close with your freakin' kicks, punches, and smash attacks if need be. Come on guys, seriously, there a bunch of things you can do besides spam projectiles for half a minute. Don't act like it's the end of the world.
You're missing the point.Could you atleast name one character that can't hold their own for a mere thirty seconds (or less) against an opponent with a franklin badge?
I understand that you have near camping immunity, but I'm sure the camper knows how to handle an opponent up close (at least temporarily). A camper attacks from afar until their opponent comes into close range. At this point, they try to extend the range, and continue camping. The opponent WILL get to the camper. It has to happen atleast once. The camper will know how to knock you away again. So how is this different when you have a Badge on? They just can't shoot at you when you approach. They stand at the other end, and when you approach, they knock you away. And repeat until you lose your badge. Camping will ensue again.
Sure, I suppose it's broken to someone who uses only projectiles, but I can't think of an example that warrants a ban.
I somewhat agree, Yuna. I understand the strategic value of the item, but it does get very powerful and very fast easily, and there is a real Risk vs. Reward unbalance. On the other hand, on multi-platform stages, and stages that dissapear into the ground, like Yoshi's Story, it is more balanced due to limited range and/or existance time. Also, the more powerful it gets, the quicker it dissapears. This may have to be decided on a stage-by-stage basis. If that is too much trouble- which it very well might be- than I agree, it should be banned.Why is the hothead allowed? It clearly gives you a great advantage for no risk at all, especially if you have the ability to enlarge it. It can set up for broken pressure, combos and at the same time prevents your opponent from moving around freely or even juggle you since it might come around and knock them out of juggling you while you're immune to it. It also stays out for quite a long time.
It's this broken and overpowered.
Done and... done! The OP has been color coordinated for ease of use and prettiness.If I could make a suggestion to the OP of this topic: You should put something at the end of each description to make it easier to see if an item should be banned or accepted. Something like:
BANNED
APPROVED
Just to make it easier to read. I read most of it, but honestly I just wanted to quickly skim it to see the conclusion of each item.
Also, you may want to make use of color coding, bold, underline, etc just to make the overall post look more interesting. It looks a bit boring and makes me not want to read it >.<
It still gives a very unfair advantage (i.e. broken) for no risk. Even if it's just for one platform on a multi-platform stage, that's still one platform the opponent cannot step on without getting hit. You can hit him there and combo from there or you can camp there and he won't be able to do much. It's too strong for absolutely no risk at all.I somewhat agree, Yuna. I understand the strategic value of the item, but it does get very powerful and very fast easily, and there is a real Risk vs. Reward unbalance. On the other hand, on multi-platform stages, and stages that dissapear into the ground, like Yoshi's Story, it is more balanced due to limited range and/or existance time. Also, the more powerful it gets, the quicker it dissapears. This may have to be decided on a stage-by-stage basis. If that is too much trouble- which it very well might be- than I agree, it should be banned.
I don't know if there's any way to tell before you pick it up, but the Golden Squeaky Hammer is just as devastating to accidentally pick up.AFAIK the Golden Hammer doesn't suffer from that at all, which further unbalances it (At least in comparison to the Black).
Of course items make some tactics worse. That's not a bad thing; it just makes a different game. The only reason to ban an item (if we're assuming item play, which we are here) is if its reward is of much greater value than any disadvantage you get from using it.ITEMS APPROVED THUS FAR:
(Sandbag) (Food) (Warp Star)(Metal Box)(Bunny Hood)(Timer)(Beam Sword)(Home-Run Bat)(Lip’s Stick) (Star Rod)(Hammer)(Super Scope)(Ray Gun)(Fire Flower) (Motion Sensor Bomb) (Gooey Bomb)(Freezie)(Smoke Ball) (Pitfall) (Hothead) (Mr. Saturn)(Green Shell)(Banana Peel) (Spring)(Franklin Badge)(Screw Attack)
All those items can ruine tactics. If you play with those, then you ought to play with all the items.
Why, pray tell, would you want to ban the Green Shell? Sure it's fast, but it's easily avoidable by jumping, and if it hits a wall (not to say there are any neutral stages with walls) it can hurt the thrower. It also takes away all of your aerials until you throw it. A brainless monkey would have enough sense to know to stay a reasonable distance from an opponent, and that air = a throw.ITEMS APPROVED THUS FAR:
(Sandbag) (Food) (Warp Star)(Metal Box)(Bunny Hood)(Timer)(Beam Sword)(Home-Run Bat)(Lip’s Stick) (Star Rod)(Hammer)(Super Scope)(Ray Gun)(Fire Flower) (Motion Sensor Bomb) (Gooey Bomb)(Freezie)(Smoke Ball) (Pitfall) (Hothead) (Mr. Saturn)(Green Shell)(Banana Peel) (Spring)(Franklin Badge)(Screw Attack)
Well, yes, but just dropping an item doesn't do much useful.^^About this "it takes away you're aerials until you throw it" thing. You guys do realize that dropping an item in the air only takes 1 frame right?