Official Mario Stage Discussion Thread: Stage #14: Jungle Japes

[mariofanpm12]

This thread is made for the purpose of discussing how Mario performs on each of the 41 Stages of the game. It is to be updated every few days, and we plan to move from Starter to Banned.

We'll discuss the ups and downs of each stage. These range from the obstacles, blast lines, edge lip, platforms, structure, etc.

When we sum up stages, we'll rate them in ratio fashion based on how well Mario does as opposed to how poorly. Ex: 40:60 Against Mario.

Also, I give a special thanks to Matt07 for his valuable consensus and summary information.

On a side note, after we have given a general rating to each stage, we may go back and rate how Mario does against each individual character on each individual stage. That's about 1,600 ratios... wow.


The first stage is... Rainbow Cruise
The seconds stage is... Final Destination
The third stage is... Delfino Plaza
And for the fourth... Battlefield
The fifth stage up... Smashville
For the sixth stage... Yoshi's Island
Stage seven is... Halberd
Stage eight will be... Luigi's Mansion
Number nine is... Castle Seige
Now for ten... Lylat Cruise
For stage eleven... Norfair
Stage twelve... Pokemon Stadium(1)
Stage thirteen is... Corneria

NOTE: We skipped PK Stadium 1, so we'll come back later...

Rainbow Cruise (65:35 Mario's Favor)

Pros:
+You have a lot more opportunities to 'gimp' characters.
+Can spam Fireballs and let other characters approach.
+Wall jumping gives a nice mindgame and slight edge on aerial game.
+Hard for campy characters to camp, due to them always having to move.
+Jab Lock

Cons:
-You can 'gimped' easily due to Mario's recovery not being the best.
-Don't get wall infinited on the boat.
-If a character has better 'spam' then you, this could work against you.

Final Destination (55:45 Mario's Favor)

Pros:
+Easier to spam against characters without projectiles (Marth.)
+Easier chance 'snag' the edge and punish opponents approaching it.

Cons:
-Only a decent approach, benifiting spamming characters.
-More vulnerable to projectile spam, due to lack of platforms and his Cape obviously not being fast enough to reflect a barrage of Falco lasers.
-Up B can be more risky.
-Longer stage, so you will take more damage from chaingrabbing.
-The lack of plateforms may make it harder for us to work in the air.

Delfino Plaza (35:65 Against Mario)

Pros:
+The water helps with F-air spiking.
+Can use FLUUD for a 'Off- Screen K.O.'
+You can use FLUDD to kill momentum while others are stuck in the water.
+Due to the changing stage it could be harder for your opponents to K.O/Easier for you to K.O your opponents.

Cons:
-Can easily misgrab the ledge of the floating platform.
-Harder time to FLUDD, and Cape gimp.
-Some areas of the stage can make you lose a stock at low percentages stock due to chaingrabbers.
-Due to the changing stage it could be harder to K.O your opponents/Easier for them to K.O you.

Battlefield (55:45 Mario's Favor)

Pros
+ The ability to Wall Jump is helpful.
+ Enemies are usually in range of Fireball approach.
+ Platforms help avoid projectile spammers.
+ An easy stage to combo foes on.
+ The ability to U-air through platforms.
+ A smaller stage, which helps Mario's lack of range.
+Can stage spike opponents with up B.
+Fireball spam is more effective for both offensive, and defensive purposes.

Cons
- A stage that works well for many characters besides Mario.
- Can't U-Smash through platforms (but you can U-Tilt.)
- Platforms can assist other characters in comboing you.
-More aerial opponents can take advantage of the platform and the fact the stage is small.

Yoshi's Island (60:40 Against Mario)

Pros:
+Wall jumping is a definate help here for our edge game.
+Meduim sized stage, so a chaingrab won't last too long.
+The ghost platform can either save us.

Cons:
-Crooked floor causes Fireball to die out quicker.
-Slanted edge help Marth's, and Game and Watch's down tilts, helping there edgeguarding.
-Characters moves such as Toon Link's d-air, and Yoshi's down B helps them regrab the edge, if they use it on the slope.
-The ghost platform can either save them.

Smashville (55:45 Mario's Favor)​

Pros
+ The ability to Wall Jump is helpful.
+ Enemies are usually in range of Fireball approach.
+ Platforms help avoid projectile spammers.
+ An easy stage to combo foes on.
+ The ability to U-air through platforms.
+ A smaller stage, which helps Mario's lack of range.
+Can stage spike opponents with up B.
+Fireball spam is more effective for both offensive, and defensive purposes.

Cons
- A stage that works well for many characters besides Mario.
- Can't U-Smash through platforms (but you can U-Tilt.)
- Platforms can assist other characters in comboing you.
-More aerial opponents can take advantage of the platform and the fact the stage is small.

Halberd (50:50 Flat)

Pros
+Cape Dashing works well here.
+UpB stage spikes on the 3rd phase (while you're actually on the Halberd) are alot more effective here than any other stage because of the ridiculous lip.
+You can miss an up B (grounded) and not really get punished because of the two platforms.

Neutrals
+/- The hazards on the stage can either benifit, or go against you.

Cons:
-Can easily lose a stock because you can't reach the platform. When the platform is flying around.
- People like Meta Knight and King Dedede can abuse hitting you under the stage.

Luigi's Mansion (55:45 Mario's Favour)

Pros:
+ You can trap opponents into Jab Locks

Cons:
- Ceilings are high, making KOs difficult

Neutrals:
+/- Offers decent protection against projectile spammers(but stops Fireballs)
+/- You and your opponent can live at very high (300%) percentages
+/- You and your foe can both juggle eachother easily

Castle Siege​

1st Tier 65:35 Mario's Favor​

2nd Tier 45:55 Against Mario​

3rd Tier 45:55 Against Mario​

1st Tier
Pros:
+ Platforms assist Mario in Fireballs.
+ Platforms aid the Aerial Game.
+Platforms are excellent for combos. Blast zones are perfect for Mario's K.O'ing, easily.

Neutrals:
+/- Ledges are straight walls, which can hurt and help (you can Wall Jump)

Cons: None


2nd Tier

Pros:
+ More platforms are present, helping Fireball/Aerial game even more.
+If you are close enough to the blast zone your back throw is a free kill.

Neutrals:
+/- The statues cut off projectiles, both yours and your foe's.
+/- Very wide floor.

Cons:
-Walkoffs on this stage is hectic, and chain grabs can wreck you.
-Floor means Mario can't put his edgeguarding game to work.
-High cieling makes it hard to K.O vertically.

3rd Tier

Pros:
- None

Neutrals:
+/- Tilting floor can make or break both approaches and recovery.

Cons:
-High ceiling.
-Stage tilts a lot and can make or break your recovery.

Lylat Cruise(40:60 Against Mario)​

Pros:
+Low ceiling makes it so much easier for Mario to K.O vertically.
+You can Jab Lock someone into a Wall Infinite.
+Characters can Chain Grab you with the slopes (Well Dedede still can I presume)

Neutrals:
+/- The ships can damage either you or your opponent.
+/-Projectiles get 'screwy' and approaches do too.

Cons:
-Is it harder to K.O with Fsmash on this stage?
-Less platforms and weird slopes on this stage make it harder to deal with projectiles.

Corneria(50:50 Flat)​

Pros:
+/You can Cape the lasers.
+If your gonna camp on the fin, you have to tech 100%.

Pits angel ring infinites nice against the fin. escpecially if ur playing a DDD.
Neutrals
+/- Helps/breaks Fireball camping because of the slopes.
+/- Very small blast zones.
+/-The slopes on the fin give him a aid in short hop Fireballs but not full hop fireballs because they can run through and expose his blind spot.

Cons:
-Infinites here hurt mario than it does advantageous for him.
-A lot of characters do alot better here than Mario which can hurt him in a way.
-GaW can bucket the lasers (which is like a one hit K.O )

Without further ado, let's begin to discuss.

 

[Matt07]

Heh, what do you know,.

Pros:
-You have a lot more opportunities to 'gimp' characters.
-Can spam Fireballs and let other characters approach.

Cons:
-You can 'gimped' easily due to Mario's recovery not being the best.

I play on this stage a lot, but I don't really have too much else to say, just having way more opportunities to 'gimp' characters helps Mario a lot.

 

[hippiedude92]

8.5/10 for this place. Perfect counter against snake. Alot of gimping is here. Due to Marios nimble-ness it suits him well here. Cape gliding is wonderful here.

 

[mariofanpm12]

I think that Rainbow Cruise is definitely in Mario favor against most characters. He is given a lot more gimping opportunities, and that's one of the things he does best. However, it works against him because a mistimed or misjudged Super Jump Punch usually means enevitable death.

 

[Blackbelt]

This is always the stage I CP when facing Diddy, Snake, and the Ice Climbers.

 

[hippiedude92]

Also, theres other decent places for wall jumping. Gives a nice mindgame and slight edge on aerial game. The only problem is that, dont get wall infinited on the boat.

 

[Kanzaki]

A Jigglypuff countered me here, I ended up winning, but I gimped myself once and the match lasted about 6 minutes :[

 

[Oblique]

The stage is an advantage most of the time. Try facing R.O.B here, unbelievably hard to gimp him. I won but the fight was 5min. Not something i want to do again

 

[A2ZOMG]

Not a particularly good stage for Mario. It's best used to counter against other characters who like controlling area on the ground.

You have a Jab lock against the wall on the boat which is awesome. Just keep mashing the A button and they'll take about 60% before they escape. Not sure if it works on all characters.

Fireball camping is annoying as hell to opponents on a lot of parts of this stage. Beware of the ones who can spam back though.

Don't play this stage against G&W or MK. It sucks massively since they are much better at controlling the air than you.

 

[mariofanpm12]

I find this stage great when facing foes with bad recovery, to counterpick. Like I said before, there's a lot of gimp opportunities, and its even harder for opponents because there's seldom an edge to grab. Just don't get too daring with your F-airs.

 

[bobson]

This stage has a good number of both pros and cons for Mario.
On the up side, you're always moving, so campy characters and stage controllers are at a disadvantage here, and Mario's aerial prowess and great gimping will give grounded characters and poor recoveries a lot of trouble. This is a great counterpick against the likes of Snake or Olimar, and you may just have a chance against King Dedede here thanks to his inability to chaingrab you forever. Fireball spamming is choice.

On the down side, Mario's recovery sucks. Many a whiffed fair will leave you too low to recover or just about to land on a platform that disappears beneath your feet after an up-B, and in the effort to gimp your opponents you can very easily be gimped yourself. Characters who love the air will be all over your ass on this stage, and the boat is just begging for wall infinites. Pit has too much fun here with his arrows.

Good counterpick, but don't rely on it.

 

[Skink]

This level hurts DK and Bowser badly.

 

[Matt07]

Bump, I think we're ready for a new stage, whenever your ready.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Oh yeah, and this is also like Snake's worst stage.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Alright, we're at Final Destination, now.

 

[Blackbelt]

Final destination: Mario, generally, hates this stage.


The giant size and the lack of platforms are both thorns in Mario's side.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Mario, in my opinion, has only a decent approach, and this stage only makes it harder for the plumber to get to his spammy opponent.

He's also more vulnerable to projectile spam, due to lack of platforms and his Cape obviously not being fast enough to reflect a barrage of Falco lasers.

 

[A2ZOMG]

This stage is situational.

It's pretty good against someone like Marth persay, since you can spam all day against him with Fireballs. Also he can't juggle you very well on this stage, and Up-B out of shield is more risky for him (well, also more risky for you too, but I think it matters more for Marth).

And well, it sucks a lot against Falco and ROB and DDD (as if DDD wasn't lame enough).

This stage also lessens G&W's advantages on you since G&W is the kind of character that is insane when he has platforms to exploit.

Basically, this stage should be reserved for CPing against certain characters.

 

[HeroMystic]

FD is a stage that gives no specific pros and cons to Mario, but give cons to other characters.

Generally, this stage should not be used as a counter-pick for any character unless the ideal stage is banned, but even Smashville is better than FD for Mario in nearly every case.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Final destination: Mario, generally, hates this stage.


The giant size and the lack of platforms are both thorns in Mario's side.

FD is my second favorite stage next to BattleField/Pictochat also the majority of my wins come from FD unless I'm playing against a Diddy and even then it's close

The fact that there is no platforms doesn't mean there aren't good options...I usually snag the edge quite early and punish anyone approaching it

 

[mario brawler]

the lack of plateforms may make it harder for us to work in the air,BUT I've had instances where FD's lip has given me a helping hand with gimping,scine not only the lip is a problem,so is mario in general
fireball appraoches still work FD is just an elongated BF with no plateforms

 

[mariofanpm12]

Elongated with no platforms can make a difference.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Alright then, can someone try to sum things up for this stage so we can move on to the next?

Also, any suggestions on the next stage? I going on the lines of either Smashville, Delfino Plaza, or Corneria...

 

[mario brawler]

I was just trying to say,it does'nt make a huge diffrence,but by all means we all know FD is no Battlefield
umm I'd like to hear on delfino,dont know about the rest of you

 

[mariofanpm12]

Delfino it is. Let's a-go!

 

[Matt07]

I used information out of this thread too come up with the summary, credit goes to the original posters.

This is Rainbow Cruise, I just realized it now, sorry guys!

Pros:
+You have a lot more opportunities to 'gimp' characters.
+Can spam Fireballs and let other characters approach.
+Wall jumping gives a nice mindgame and slight edge on aerial game.
+Hard for campy characters to camp, due to them always having to move.
+Jab Lock

Cons:
-You can 'gimped' easily due to Mario's recovery not being the best.
-Don't get wall infinited on the boat.
-If a character has better 'spam' then you, this could work against you.

Final Destination

Pros:
+Easier to spam against characters without projectiles (Marth.)
+Easier chance 'snag' the edge and punish opponents approaching it.

Cons:
-Only a decent approach, benifiting spamming characters.
-More vulnerable to projectile spam, due to lack of platforms and his Cape obviously not being fast enough to reflect a barrage of Falco lasers.
-Up B can be more risky.
-Longer stage, so you will take more damage from chaingrabbing.
-The lack of plateforms may make it harder for us to work in the air.



Delfino Plaza

Pros:
+I can't really think of any.

Cons:
-Can easily misgrab the ledge of the floating platform
-Harder time to FLUUD, and Cape gimp.

If I missed anything let Mariofanpm12 know.

 

[Genos]

Guys, remember to keep blast zones in mind when evaluationg these stages. Some stages have higher/lower and closer/farther blast zones. This can severely affect how Mario performs on a stage. Here's a link for the percents needed to kill with Mario's up smash for every stage Brawl. This is VERY useful, especially for us Marios.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156908

If anyone can find a similar list for side blast zones, feel free to post it.

So, Delfino.

The walk off blast zones and walls can make Dedede and other chaingrabbers semm very scary, but luckily the stage isn't always in an area with those.

The platforms are nice. Mid-transformaiton, it's like a battlefield with a floor you can jump through, but it's hard to take advantage of this with Mario's recovery.

It has water, which I'm guessing will help with Fair spiking. I wouldn't know, I suck at Fair spiking. >_>

I don't know about you guys, but I sometimes SD when the stage transforms. That may just be me and not pertain to Mario though.

 

[HeroMystic]

-Harder time to FLUUD, and Cape gimp.

You can use FLUDD to kill momentum while others are stuck in the water. Easy stock lost if you know how to do it.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Wow thanks a lot Matt07 the compiled info really helps!

Also, IMO Delfino Plaza offers little to no real pros for Mario.

In fact, it kind of hurts him. The stage is always changing, which changes blast zones (which are somewhat bigger than I thought on some parts of the circuit).

Water doesn't really make much of a difference in the long run.

Recovery is still tough, but you don't have to worry about it on most of the pit stops. Still, I often find myself not being able to recover through the bottom platform on the Transition arena (the one like Battlefield) which is annoying (it's mostly due to Mario's barely decent recovery).


IMO, I'd say it's maybe... 65:35 or so against Mario. I started rating stages like matchups.

 

[Mario_ 101]

i think its good against higher tiered chars cuz the environment is always changing. u just need to adapt to it. cides, at some points u can FLUDD enemies off-screen for the kill, like where the umbrellas are to the right XD

 

[Blackbelt]

If I'm not facing Falco or Jigglypuff, than Delfino is always a viable option.


Mario loves the platforms, and he can do well on all transformations, and FLUDD+Water makes for nice kills at the transformation.

The fact the stage is pass through most of the time is both a blessing and a curse.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Anyone care to sum this one up before we move on?

Also, what stage do you guys wanna' do next?

 

[Matt07]

I used information out of this thread too come up with the summary, credit goes to the original posters.

Pros:
+The water helps with F-air spiking.
+Can use FLUUD for a 'Off- Screen K.O.'
+You can use FLUUD to kill momentum while others are stuck in the water.
+Due to the changing stage it could be harder for your opponents to K.O/Easier for you to K.O your opponents.

Cons:
-Can easily misgrab the ledge of the floating platform.
-Harder time to FLUUD, and Cape gimp.
-Some areas of the stage can make you lose a stock at low percentages stock due to chaingrabbers.
-Due to the changing stage it could be harder to K.O your opponents/Easier for them to K.O you.

Overall Stage: 35:65 Against Mario.

The over-all stage advantages on;
Rainbow Cruise: 65:35 in Mario's favour?
Final Destination: Leaning towards 60-40, to 50:50.
If I missed anything let us know .

Hmm...let's do Smashville next? Doesn't really bother me what we do next.

 

[HeroMystic]

We didn't do Battlefield yet. We did Rainbow Cruise.

But since you brought it up, we should do Battlefield next.

 

[Matt07]

Woops! *Goes to edit posts.* Yea, I agree with HeroMystic, let's do Battlefield next.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Battlefield it is then... (don't worry Matt07 Smashville should be next).

Let's a-go!

 

[hippiedude92]

Battlefield is combo heaven and ALMOST a solid counterpick.

+ Platforms mmakes you live like in combo heaven lol

- Majority of the cast does well on this stage

- Many players know how to play this stage

+ You can wall jump on the edge.

+ Solid starter stage.

+ Platforms also help avoid projectile spam.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Well we all now a few things...

+ Great stage for comboing opponents
+ Makes it easier for Mario to avoid projectiles
+ The ability to Wall Jump on the edges is somewhat helpful

There aren't any real "cons" here, but like hippiedude92 said, most of the cast does well here.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Pro's
+Excellent stage to juggle opponets on.
+Wall jump can lead into wonderful things possibly.
+Platforms can be lovely and in your favor at times.

Con's
-Some characters can control the whole stage on you. IE, Zamus
-Them same platforms that aid you, can hurt you just as bad when against certain characters.
-A decent stage, just depends who you're up against.

 

[mario brawler]

pros
+mid size stage,mario works well here
+opponents are almost always in range for a FB aproach
+Fludding seems usefull on this stage (at least when I play)
+mario can almost always recovery here ( even when your under the stage/ledge facing the wrong direction)

cons
not really much cons,other than the ones alreayd stated