Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Stevo]

if we are talking about old videos though, I used to watch the game over vids of Ken vs Azen a lot.

At the time I learned a lot from them. back when DC++ was the only way to really get videos.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I wish the hub was still around. I got so many cool files from there

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I love that 06 video of Ken vs M2k on Juggleguys channel...
the one where DA Dave is commentating...
will always be one of my favorite matches

 

[choknater]

that's why he's called the asian sensation!

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

its all about dat grab game

 

[Strong Badam]

I love that 06 video of Ken vs M2k on Juggleguys channel...
the one where DA Dave is commentating...
will always be one of my favorite matches

i like the one with ken vs. chillin on FoD i think where he starts yelling "mortal kombat!"

 

[MasterSwordStudio]

Hm. I do like Marth's position, but Kirby below BOWSER AND GANON? I dont know if I suck as bowser and ganon but I think Kirby should be a bit higher.

 

[Stevo]

obviously you've never played against a WARRIOR

 

[choknater]

ganondorf is excellent

but he loses to young link

 

[Divinokage]

ganondorf is excellent

but he loses to young link

Pfttt.. Definitely not. YL is a JOKE to Ganon. Do I need to link the vid where Ganon one shots YL in Ocarina of Time?

 

[CloneHat]

Hm. I do like Marth's position, but Kirby below BOWSER AND GANON? I dont know if I suck as bowser and ganon but I think Kirby should be a bit higher.

Kirby and Ness are the worst characters.

 

[MasterSwordStudio]

I dont know what this has to do with a tier list, but I liked zelda's design in melee better than Brawl.

 

[MasterSwordStudio]

Kirby and Ness are the worst characters.

Yeah, I know that know, but I'm just saying that I like Kirby and Ness Better than bowser and ganon.

 

[choknater]

i'll prove you wrong kage!

 

[Zoler]

Kirby and Ness are the worst characters.

Bowser and Pichu are definitely worse then Kirby.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Bowser and Kirby are about equally bad IMO.

 

[Doc King]

Bowser and Kirby are about equally bad IMO.

I think Bowser does a better because Bowser has a few decent moves like his Up-B move and has good power which helps him and also, Bowser I think is actually faster than Kirby since he has the quick up-b and fair, while Kirby has the very slow up throw, down throw, terrible air speed, etc.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Yeah, I know that know, but I'm just saying that I like Kirby and Ness Better than bowser and ganon.

but this isnt a popularity contest...

at least among the low tiers

 

[Strong Badam]

i like the one with ken vs. chillin on FoD i think where he starts yelling "mortal kombat!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCc13jgyM8Y
LOOOOOOOL

"what happened with ken!"

"mortal kombat!!"

 

[MasterSwordStudio]

but this isnt a popularity contest...

at least among the low tiers

I meant I like USING Kirby and ness more than bowser or ganon

 

[Divinokage]

Then that's who you should use.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCc13jgyM8Y
LOOOOOOOL

"what happened with ken!"

"mortal kombat!!"

you're so cool for replying to yourself

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Pfttt.. Definitely not. YL is a JOKE to Ganon. Do I need to link the vid where Ganon one shots YL in Ocarina of Time?

already posted that towards chok =P

but seriously, today is the tournament where his young link and my ganon fight to the death. wish us luck!!!

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

i refuse to give it a break, because mr. wizzrobe spoke very highly of it
and it had bad music...

Thanks, dude.

I spoke highly of it because I saw it 5 years ago when I first got into smash.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

np brah

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

I hope you know that was sarcasm.

I wouldn't of let you have the satisfaction if you thought otherwise.

 

[choknater]

i got 3-0'd by bizzarro flame today

hmm that was pretty tough

i might have to spend 7 years training... or maybe just pull out the master sword and instantly grow to manhood!!

 

[john!]

don't do it, i hear pulling out the master sword makes you run slow and gives you a crappy wavedash




...or maybe being part of the triforce does that instead...

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I hope you know that was sarcasm.

I wouldn't of let you have the satisfaction if you thought otherwise.

ya i got it the first time >.>

 

[Koroviev]

http://youtu.be/-FBaTh0BxSA

 

[choknater]

^hilarious

posting this new ylink vs link match in here cuz i feel like it

edit: ROFL ROFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRwVrhmh8xg

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

nice match

 

[choknater]

LOLOLOLOLO

wow

oops. fixed it

 

[UltiMario]

****ing

0:30

RANDALL

 

[choknater]

LOL yeah man. the stage showing some bias toward the styles...

 

[going2killu]

It turns out that the sequence (Q_m) does almost always converge, and the vector Q that it converges to provides a nice way of ranking the characters.

The proof that (Q_m) converges unless this one odd condition pops up is kind of ugly and tedious, so I won't go into that here; even the statement of that one condition is messy.

Hmm, been thinking about this today, and have some thoughts. I guess I'll share them here

For n x n matrix P, let it have row order r_0. Let column vectors Q_m each have row orders r_m such that their values are in ascending order, and let Q have row order r_final such that its values are also in ascending order. I BELIEVE (I could be mistaken, but I can't come up with a counter-example at the moment) that for all m>=n-1, r_m == r_final. In other words, I am fairly certain that you would only need to find n-1 values of Q_m to accomplish the task at hand. In this case, 25 iterations would suffice.

1) Can anyone here either confirm or disprove my belief? If so, please share.
2) I think it would be interesting to get this kind of list put together and posted, does anyone have any interest in helping me with this?
3) Fly_Amanita, do you still have that proof? If so, I'd love to see it, so if you could pm it to me, that'd be awesome.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Whoa, I'm surprised somebody still remembers that. I'll need a bit of time to review what exactly I did in the first place since I haven't thought about this in a while, but I'll try to get back to everything later today.

 

[going2killu]

As a test run, I took the matchup chart from here and performed 25 iterations of the process described by Fly_Amanita. I would just like to say that the rate of convergence for this is pretty fast...

Original----Change------New---------Character
1.0000000 +0.0000000 1.00000000 Sheik
0.9687500 +0.0019027 0.97065274 Fox
0.9479167 -0.0074927 0.94042400 Marth
0.9270833 -0.0038687 0.92321459 Falco
0.8854167 -0.0000344 0.88538222 Purin
0.8750000 -0.0017297 0.87327027 C. Falcon
0.8489583 -0.0105879 0.83837048 Peach
0.8437500 -0.0142690 0.82948104 Ganon
0.7864583 -0.0249358 0.76152256 Dr. Mario
0.7812500 -0.0303421 0.75090786 IC
0.7395833 -0.0294050 0.71017829 Samus
0.7291667 -0.0225875 0.70657919 DK (+1)
0.7343750 -0.0283261 0.70604895 Mario (-1)
0.6979167 -0.0277293 0.67018738 Pikachu
0.6875000 -0.0252528 0.66224720 Luigi
0.6562500 -0.0197121 0.63653792 Link
0.6145833 -0.0360513 0.57853199 Y.Link
0.5520833 -0.0366915 0.51539183 Mr.G&W
0.5260417 -0.0343355 0.49170620 Zelda
0.4843750 -0.0448572 0.43951784 Mewtwo
0.4322917 -0.0368180 0.39547367 Ness
0.4270833 -0.0498988 0.37718455 Roy
0.3958333 -0.0380496 0.35778373 Yoshi
0.3906250 -0.0339350 0.35668996 Koopa
0.3541667 -0.0529487 0.30121799 Kirby
0.3177083 -0.0464528 0.27125557 Pichu

DK's shift over mario is probably the result of having better matchups than mario against 4 characters in the top ten: Marth, Ganon, Dr. Mario, and IC's. In contrast, mario is better than DK against only one of the top ten.

I'm a bit new to these forums.... Is there a more recent matchup chart I can try this on? Even if there were, would it be appropriate for this kind of test?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

are you using the list from the thread t3h icy made? thats probably the most recent and pretty accurate.

 

[going2killu]

Do you have a link, by chance? I am only finding his matchup charts for ssb64.