Official MBR Tier List

[TresChikon]

Awesome player + Sh*tty Character = Okay

Awesome player + Awesome Character = Mango

Simple?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't understand how you took that from the post.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Ahhh I see what you did nice sig sorry a lot of times my mind is everywhere at once so yeah. I'm getting there.

 

[KAOSTAR]

LMAO

Idk, the cookies arent even worth it.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

They are oreos. Everyone wants Oreos. Besides most of the worse stuff is gone.

 

[TresChikon]

I don't understand how you took that from the post.

Oh I didn't even see your offer for cookies, I just threw that out there.

I think ICG says that since Melee is completely random, player skills and character potential doesn't even matter, meaning that anything can happen.

Makes perfect sense on account that Bowser can be top tier too.

 

[Aesir]

You can't just say skill< choice for a number of reasons like stages, ways of playing, mindgames, people sometimes do better or worse, knowledge, and randomness. ANd how can you even say 2 people are perfectly equal in skill when they have different tactics, charcters,and exp? Really it's best to say this gereral ____ does better than ____________

All of this negated by the fact that Fox Vs. IC on pokefloats is heavily in fox's favor.

 

[john!]

I think we all agree that player skill outweighs character choice, but the question is to what degree?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

No i'm saying there are a LOT of factors think about it a different stage can easily change who wins many times. There is to much random in any fighting game to truely make a solid statement that ___ is better 100% but a fair amount of the time skill plays the biggest role.

 

[TresChikon]

I think we all agree that player skill outweighs character choice, but the question is to what degree?

To the M2nd degree

a fair amount of the time skill plays the biggest role.

Oh okay ICG, that's much more coherent.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Well if isai=to good and normal skill/17=1/2 isai and pichu is falcon/5. isai picks pichu over falcon and isn't sandbagging(unwise move) normal skill/7=isai as pichu isai winning by 1-2 stocks on noraml stage.

I think thats right. something like that happened when he picked kirby so yeah that's about right.



If this gets siged that a new record for me 2 different things i've said in one day siged. But yeah I think I win. pichu for 3rd worse.

 

[Tamoo]

mind = blown

 

[Aesir]

mind = blown

Co-signs

tencharacters

 

[Divinokage]

You can't calculate skill! Try to calculate my potential eh? It's infinite!! lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kage the hairstylist. With INFINITE potential!

 

[Fletch]

Well if isai=to good and normal skill/17=1/2 isai and pichu is falcon/5. isai picks pichu over falcon and isn't sandbagging(unwise move) normal skill/7=isai as pichu isai winning by 1-2 stocks on noraml stage.

I think thats right. something like that happened when he picked kirby so yeah that's about right.



If this gets siged that a new record for me 2 different things i've said in one day siged. But yeah I think I win. pichu for 3rd worse.

Are you this insane in real life? Not a knock at all, I really want to meet you in person to put a face to some of the crazy stuff I see you post.

 

[X1-12]

I see his logic way to go. This guy is using staight logic X1-12. If Player skill > Character choice then everyone fox should win vs anyone m2 right? fumi as yoshi loses to random player who doesn't know who to play who picks falco.

Also if Players skill "is equal" > Character player 1 picks pikachu player 2 picks ice climbers both don't chain throw and they are both good. who would win? I've seen the pikachu who come very close to winning when they is chain throwing but with out this pikachu would have won.

Players skill "is equal" and useing all techs and gayness and whathave you> Character choice

ice climbers vs fox it's fairly even you could debate skill will tell who wins, but fox picks pokeflaots ice climbers lose.

Players skill "is equal" and useing all techs and gayness and whathave you with balnced stage> Character choice

pichu vs fox the fox has never fought a pichu before and gets chain thrown and gimped by F-smash.

Players skill "is equal" and useing all techs and gayness and whathave you with balnced stage, both know match-up inside and out> Character choice

G&W vs disadvancce match-up. G&W lands 2 9's

Players skill "is equal" and useing all techs and gayness and whathave you with balnced stage, both know match-up inside and out, no randomness> Character choice

you end at the same percent everytime fox always wins with 67% 1 stock on just made smash boring.



My points are the following
people need more logic about the list
no one is the same skill level
the number of things added to this list could go on forever because of all the factors in it.
sheik take little skill
Everyone plays different so even If they are worse or should lose the match-up they can still use mindgames or their way of playing is hard to deal with.
lower tiers CAN win

also great quote x1-12 The worse part of dieing is you can't do more or show and help the world. Funny we can find heaven sooner than we can make heaven

heavily edited to make sense

If you play it read it backwards it holds a satanic message

 

[KAOSTAR]

I really dont think anybody has even given an actual opinin since this started.

Im just soooooo confused now.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Yeah i'm really nuts do you have any idea how many mental break downs i've had? BBut I prefer being nuts any more from what I know about sane it's the normal way of thinking not the right way of thinking. einstein was called insane and what happened? He was but he was right. from what I know about sane you steal, cheat, lie and kill things I really would never want to do. If being right means being wrong then I want to be called wrong.


But yeah way to good x1-12.


The only limits in melee are the mind(very limited in most cases) and finger speed so yaeh if you don't limit your mind you can go far.

 

[Mew2King]

I just want to say that at winterfest this weekend, a few days before it I practiced jiggs with Vidjo for a few hours, and then I 4 stocked Jman's Fox with her Sat morning. He camped me and won like 2/3rds of the games after that but most all of them were last stock and I 2 stokced him on brinstar without planking my first time ever doing that matchup on that stage before. This is better than Hbox did, cuz Jman 3 stokced hbox several times meaning omg i must be the best jiggs now. I continue beating every character then losing to jiggs, and jiggs continues to dominate every big tourney in the US. I JUST picked her up for fun and I have very little experience with her, but I was still able to do this. That's the only match I 4 stokced him in in a really, really long time with any character. That's STUPID. Mango and Hbox again won this weekend. Don't give me that exceptional player bull****, Jiggs is mad easy to use, by far the easiest character to win with, and current Jiggs don't even do the combos they could be using. My jiggs vs Fox does up throw then SH Uair to regrab, then I do up throw pound rest if they DI away, or up throw rest if they dont DI. If they expect the pound to rest they can just DI toward you, but you can trick their DI by doing up throw to SH fair to regrab, then you get a free down throw rest or down throw fair-edge-guard. You can also do up throw to pound to rest or up throw to pound to uair to rest if you grab them near the edge and know they will DI in even if they di not DI the second up throw. No Jiggs even use Down throw to rest yet, which makes them ****ed if they are at the edge cuz the only way to avoid the rest combo is to DI off (don't forget you can just forward smash instead of rest if you want too).

as for jab reset to rest, you can just F smash instead of rest and trick their DI. Hbox did this to mango in tourney he just did jab to f Smash and Mango thought he was gonna rest and he died at like 60% (but with that DI it woulda been like 20%). Jiggs is easy to use, broken, and underrated as hell. If you can't see this by now then.... then well you're just wrong. Btw don't bring up darc cuz he's a lot worse in singles than mango and hbox but STILL does really well. She literally has every tool to win major tourneys and on counterpicks she's just like auto win. Up throw Uair doesn't work on her if you smash DI up the Uair, and up smash is risky because you can block it then jump and rest (same with any Fox smash attack or dash attack). At 30-40% you can dash attack to jab reset to rest, and at 40-70% you can full jump fair then jab reset to rest (a good time to use this is baiting a shield grab after spacing a fair). The character is dumb.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I argee m2k she should at least at min be above peach. Really I think people need to figure out a better way at dealing with her OR maybe play like her in the way she can just think and wait. But yeah enjoy puffing. But yeah I will try the down-throw thing you need to stop making puff even more broken.

 

[X1-12]

I just want to say that at winterfest this weekend, a few days before it I practiced jiggs with Vidjo for a few hours, and then I 4 stocked Jman's Fox with her Sat morning. He camped me and won like 2/3rds of the games after that but most all of them were last stock and I 2 stokced him on brinstar without planking my first time ever doing that matchup on that stage before. This is better than Hbox did, cuz Jman 3 stokced hbox several times meaning omg i must be the best jiggs now. I continue beating every character then losing to jiggs, and jiggs continues to dominate every big tourney in the US. I JUST picked her up for fun and I have very little experience with her, but I was still able to do this. That's the only match I 4 stokced him in in a really, really long time with any character. That's STUPID. Mango and Hbox again won this weekend. Don't give me that exceptional player bull****, Jiggs is mad easy to use, by far the easiest character to win with, and current Jiggs don't even do the combos they could be using. My jiggs vs Fox does up throw then SH Uair to regrab, then I do up throw pound rest if they DI away, or up throw rest if they dont DI. If they expect the pound to rest they can just DI toward you, but you can trick their DI by doing up throw to SH fair to regrab, then you get a free down throw rest or down throw fair-edge-guard. You can also do up throw to pound to rest or up throw to pound to uair to rest if you grab them near the edge and know they will DI in even if they di not DI the second up throw. No Jiggs even use Down throw to rest yet, which makes them ****ed if they are at the edge cuz the only way to avoid the rest combo is to DI off (don't forget you can just forward smash instead of rest if you want too).

as for jab reset to rest, you can just F smash instead of rest and trick their DI. Hbox did this to mango in tourney he just did jab to f Smash and Mango thought he was gonna rest and he died at like 60% (but with that DI it woulda been like 20%). Jiggs is easy to use, broken, and underrated as hell. If you can't see this by now then.... then well you're just wrong. Btw don't bring up darc cuz he's a lot worse in singles than mango and hbox but STILL does really well. She literally has every tool to win major tourneys and on counterpicks she's just like auto win. Up throw Uair doesn't work on her if you smash DI up the Uair, and up smash is risky because you can block it then jump and rest (same with any Fox smash attack or dash attack). At 30-40% you can dash attack to jab reset to rest, and at 40-70% you can full jump fair then jab reset to rest (a good time to use this is baiting a shield grab after spacing a fair). The character is dumb.

okay guys bets on how many people will now start playing jiggs cause of this?

 

[Anth0ny]

If M2K picks up Jiggs and all the big tourneys end up being Jiggs dittos for Winners finals, losers finals and grand finals... may god help us all.

 

[Pi]

@Mew2king
I'd like to hear your input on the Jiggs vs. Marth matchup
and Jiggs vs. Sheik matchup

I'd also like everyone to remember that while yes jiggs is mad gay, and has the best punishes in the game, she is also relatively new on the scene. If more people do start picking up jiggs, counter strats will be found. We've always had a plethora of fox, falco, marth players so everyone is up to date on those match ups, but I still see less jiggs players than I do the previously mentioned characters.

And also that Mango beat Hbox with fox at winterfest in grand finals.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Yeah there needs to be change a lot of tactics have changed, jigglypuff combos less but somehow ***** more. then we may see bowser mains rise up to counter the jiggly theat. But yeah puff is really easy I've played someone and couldn't do much as people I play all the time and I rested them out of their own throw on brinstar. I only lost because I sded once or twice.

Hey puff isn't the best at punishing one grab isn't game(unless you suck at DIing) she can't do 15% on just f-tilt. ice climbers will always be the best punishers. jigglypuff may be close but you can live from rest at lower percents.

 

[Pi]

You don't really contribute anything to conversations, you realize that right?

 

[Pink Reaper]

You actually read his posts? I have him on my ignore list and assume any post I can't see is just some broken english paragraph that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and more to do with stupid **** involving the ICs and Pichu that doesn't work.

 

[Mew2King]

jiggs ***** marth and sheik


vidjo beat my marth with jiggs then i 3 stocked him in jiggs ditto and i never jiggs dittoed before that

i think jiggs beats marth cuz marth can only hit her like once with his attacks if she DIs away and even on FD tipper fair doesnt KO until like 130 or something and on most other stages it's more. Marth also auto-loses on counterpicks. Marth approaching jiggs = marth gets *****, but jiggs can approach marth and land behind him and do nair to duck to other mix ups and I will argue Bair camping is more effective overall than marth's fair camping esp cuz one bair leads to being at the edge or being edge guarded to rest. If jiggs back throws marth its a rest, same w/ sheik.

jiggs just rests sheik with .... anything

 

[adumbrodeus]

okay guys bets on how many people will now start playing jiggs cause of this?

Fine with me, I need match-up practice with my marth.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

If i'm wrong tell me why and how it's that simple if one has a mind they are able to learn, or not I could know nothing at all I don't know the limit of knowing so yeah. It's cool if you don't care about my views I'm good either way.

 

[x After Dawn x]

If i'm wrong tell me why and how it's that simple if one has a mind they are able to learn, or not I could know nothing at all I don't know the limit of knowing so yeah. It's cool if you don't care about my views I'm good either way.

"bowser mains rising to the top?"

what the **** are you talking about?

and your posts usually have absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about and are nonsensical.

 

[victra♥]

Tyler, don't diss ICG. I love that guy lol <3

also lol m2k.

 

[Pi]

You actually read his posts? I have him on my ignore list and assume any post I can't see is just some broken english paragraph that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and more to do with stupid **** involving the ICs and Pichu that doesn't work.

I actually lol'd for about a minute. considering sigging this lol.


Anyone consider any lower tiers for combating jiggs?
I mean it's pretty clear that these high teir vs. jiggs matchups are not un-winnable
But I'm wondering if any lower tier'd characters have anything to bring to the matchup

Spoiler

inb4 pichu beats jiggs

 

[KAOSTAR]

Idk, Ive always pictured ICG as like this cute little kid.

hes probably a grown *** man with a mustache lol.

My real concern, something that has bothered me for awhile-Did he, or did he not, spell "Crazy" incorrectly on purpose. The world may never know.

M2 jiggz is campy, but not terrible. You dont really get wall of pained or comboed.

If you dont mess up 2 bad you can avoid getting rested(you pretty much will cuz m2 is almost as big as bowser with his ****in tail). You have more range as well.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Marth is so broken. His forward smash is too good.

 

[Tamoo]

young link is pretty legit against jiggs.

Hmm, part from that, just play fox and marth

 

[X1-12]

jiggs ***** marth

I'm gonna man up enough to disagree with this.

firstly i think jiggs only **** marths who are played wrong.

marth vs jiggs you gotta just be really gay as marth and everytime (s)he gets near you WD away or maybe risk a jab / F-tilt, use basically no F-smashes and just don't let the jiggs get near you, don't jump if you dont have to and constantly bait the jiggs into something, Don't sheildgrab or (s)he'll just move out the way then rest you just WD back -> run forward JC grab or WD grab forward again, from a grab try a f-throw -> WD forward -> F-smash (depending on %) Whatever you do don't try to combo him/her for more than like 2 hits and even then only try 2 hits if you're feeling confident


EDIT: Please dont **** me too bad M2K

 

[Pi]

I'm gonna man up enough to disagree with this.

firstly i think jiggs only **** marths who are played wrong.

marth vs jiggs you gotta just be really gay as marth and everytime (s)he gets near you WD away or maybe risk a jab / F-tilt, use basically no F-smashes and just don't let the jiggs get near you, don't jump if you dont have to and constantly bait the jiggs into something, Don't sheildgrab or (s)he'll just move out the way then rest you just WD back -> run forward JC grab or WD grab forward again, from a grab try a f-throw -> WD forward -> F-smash (depending on %) Whatever you do don't try to combo him/her for more than like 2 hits and even then only try 2 hits if you're feeling confident


EDIT: Please dont **** me too bad M2K

The determining factor in that matchup seems to be whether the marth has to UB onto the stage 4 times or not.

 

[Problem2]

The determining factor in that matchup seems to be whether the marth has to UB onto the stage 4 times or not.

QFT. I played gay against a jigglypuff (though I'm no pro) and was able to do fine. The problem is that if you get sent off stage, you're in a lot of trouble. I tried my best to stay in the center of the stage, even if that means taking a few hits.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Marth actually has decent kill options from grabs if you can get them to DI for the wrong throw.

otherwise you're just playing a lighter, smaller peach who happens to have more range and can kill you when she goes to sleep.